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Sony on the future direction of PS3 and NGP, Watch Impress editor speculates on PS4

theBishop

Banned
Nov 26, 2006
17,210
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I do hope we see a PS3 "Slimmer", because the current unit isn't enough to make me upgrade from my 60GB launch system. But a "PS3.5" with more power makes no sense.

One thing I'd like to see is PC and maybe even OnLive get out ahead with some games that simply can't be done on console. Crytek jumped the gun a few years ago with Crysis1, but now Crysis-capable hardware costs about the same as a console.

And OnLive is just a no brainer. There's no limit to graphics they can push over an ethernet cable. They have a window right now, where they can sponsor some high-end games and get those little Microconsoles into people's livingrooms before the next crop of consoles is ready. Imagine sending a game invite over facebook to play something significantly more advanced than Crysis, and anyone on your friend's list already has what they need to play it. Sign up for a free account, download the < 1MB client, and you're playing.
 

H_Prestige

Banned
Aug 2, 2008
15,476
0
0
If NGP is any indication, PS4 will basically be designed by the software guys (unlike PS3). What that means for CPU/GPU/RAM/etc., I have no idea, but whatever it is it won't be hard to program. It will definitely be a big leap over the PS3 and it will include BC with PS1/2/3.

My interest resides with Nintendo. I am SOOOOOOOOOO curious to see what they pull out of their hats for next generation. The 3DS has dragged me back on the Nintendo team which after the Wii I never thought would happen, at least so soon. I don't see Microsoft or Sony pulling anything too surprising out of their hats, although I'd love to be proven wrong.
To each his own. I think the 3DS is one of the most boring systems I've ever seen. Hardware is just a DS with a PSP style analog nub (and they didn't even learn from the PSP's mistake by not having a second nub, unbelievable) and a naseau inducing screen.
 

Thunderbear

Mawio Gawaxy iz da Wheeson hee pways games
May 10, 2006
3,364
0
0
LovingSteam said:
My interest resides with Nintendo. I am SOOOOOOOOOO curious to see what they pull out of their hats for next generation. The 3DS has dragged me back on the Nintendo team which after the Wii I never thought would happen, at least so soon. I don't see Microsoft or Sony pulling anything too surprising out of their hats, although I'd love to be proven wrong.
Why? Nintendo is selling you 2 years old technology, and unless they change that strategy that's what you are going to see with the next console. It's going to be a bit faster than the Xbox360 and PS3 but nowhere near what we (in my opinion) deserve for a true next generation machine even if launched next year.

At this rate, I am afraid that if Sony and MS are really not going to bring out new machines until 2015 or later that it will leave the room open for other platforms like the iPad, which will surpass Xbox360/PS3 quality within 2 years (I mean shit, iPad 2 already has the same amount of ram already!), to dominate the gaming market. And with that companies will struggle to decide whether they are going to attempt high budget games on a platform where $1-$10 is the accepted price range in the consumer's mind -- as that's what they are used to getting.

Rising costs in development is not entirely true, and I keep saying this. The content creation tools are so different compared to 2005-2006 when this generation launched. We also have the event of PSN and XBLA which has changed the nature of the range of studios ability to survive in today's market place.

Where it used to take 2-3 months to create a character, these days it's possible to create a fully, high-poly model with high-res textures within 1 week by a strong Z-brush artist. If anything, the time spent on that side is optimizing, making sure your UVs are perfectly optimized and splitting up spec, AO, etc. maps intelligently. Optimization is the real time-killer. If we had massively powerful hardware where less optimization was necessary time would be saved. And tools in that area are even getting better and better all the time with auto-generating UV tools getting better and better every few months.

The Unreal Engine from GDC running on three 580s was created by a few people in 3 months. For what they created, that's pretty damn amazing. We need a PS4/Xbox720 by 2013 at the latest IMO or the industry is going to change drastically -- and not in the way us hardcore gamers might like.
 

[Nintex]

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Jun 21, 2005
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Thunderbear said:
Why? Nintendo is selling you 2 years old technology, and unless they change that strategy that's what you are going to see with the next console. It's going to be a bit faster than the Xbox360 and PS3 but nowhere near what we (in my opinion) deserve for a true next generation machine even if launched next year.

At this rate, I am afraid that if Sony and MS are really not going to bring out new machines until 2015 or later that it will leave the room open for other platforms like the iPad, which will surpass Xbox360/PS3 quality within 2 years (I mean shit, iPad 2 already has the same amount of ram already!), to dominate the gaming market. And with that companies will struggle to decide whether they are going to attempt high budget games on a platform where $1-$10 is the accepted price range in the consumer's mind -- as that's what they are used to getting.

Rising costs in development is not entirely true, and I keep saying this. The content creation tools are so different compared to 2005-2006 when this generation launched. We also have the event of PSN and XBLA which has changed the nature of the range of studios ability to survive in today's market place.

Where it used to take 2-3 months to create a character, these days it's possible to create a fully, high-poly model with high-res textures within 1 week by a strong Z-brush artist. If anything, the time spent on that side is optimizing, making sure your UVs are perfectly optimized and splitting up spec, AO, etc. maps intelligently. Optimization is the real time-killer. If we had massively powerful hardware where less optimization was necessary time would be saved. And tools in that area are even getting better and better all the time with auto-generating UV tools getting better and better every few months.

The Unreal Engine from GDC running on three 580s was created by a few people in 3 months. For what they created, that's pretty damn amazing. We need a PS4/Xbox720 by 2013 at the latest IMO or the industry is going to change drastically -- and not in the way us hardcore gamers might like.
I strongly believe that MS will roll out the next Xbox by 2012. There's no reason for them to wait for Sony to catch up. Nintendo is the wildcard here, they could launch in late 2011/early 2012/late 2012 or they could wait for 2015. I personally believe we'll see their new console soon because they've been downsizing their shipments for a while and with all the crazy R&D expendures they can't keep that up.
 

SolidSnakex

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Jun 7, 2004
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[Nintex] said:
I strongly believe that MS will roll out the next Xbox by 2012.
Why would they do that when the 360 is doing so well? Both the PS3 and 360 are actually doing really well. Neither Sony or MS have any real reason to launch a new system that soon. I also think that both of them actually do understand that most third party devs don't want that to happen right now. They were beat up pretty badly this gen and are just starting to get back on their feet.
 

theBishop

Banned
Nov 26, 2006
17,210
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0
SolidSnakex said:
Why would they do that when the 360 is doing so well? Both the PS3 and 360 are actually doing really well. Neither Sony or MS have any real reason to launch a new system that soon. I also think that both of them actually do understand that most third party devs don't want that to happen right now. They were beat up pretty badly this gen and are just starting to get back on their feet.
Yeah, I wouldn't put out a new console until one of the major technology licensing developers can launch with a finished game using their next-gen engine. When 360 first came out, Mark Rein was saying it was "ambitious" to put out an UE3 game before Gears was ready. Assuming MS plans to stay friendly with Epic (and Crytek?), Sony should be cultivating a relationship with Valve and/or Id right about now.
 

[Nintex]

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SolidSnakex said:
Why would they do that when the 360 is doing so well? Both the PS3 and 360 are actually doing really well. Neither Sony or MS have any real reason to launch a new system that soon. I also think that both of them actually do understand that most third party devs don't want that to happen right now. They were beat up pretty badly this gen and are just starting to get back on their feet.
By the end of 2012 the Xbox 360 will be 7 years old. They could sell it for what, $99/$199? MS could upgrade their box and throw in all they can for $299/$399. Devs can just upgrade their Unreal Engines and the like. It won't be a Xbox > Xbox 360 leap, but good enough to be a real 'next generation' system. They could also take the Kinect interface with them and upgrade that a year or two down the line. Xbox Live could be upgraded and they would just take that large community with them as well. A lot has happened on the hardware front since 2005 and a new system is pretty much the only way console builders can 'catch up' with the trends.
 

yurinka

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Jan 19, 2007
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SolidSnakex said:
Why would they do that when the 360 is doing so well? Both the PS3 and 360 are actually doing really well. Neither Sony or MS have any real reason to launch a new system that soon. I also think that both of them actually do understand that most third party devs don't want that to happen right now. They were beat up pretty badly this gen and are just starting to get back on their feet.
I agree, it's too soon for Sony and MS. I think we won't see a new console from them until late 2013 or 2014, maybe even 2015.

Until then they will push their consoles with:
-Motion gaming
-3D
-New software services (like PS Suite in PS3, non-gaming apps, maybe ebooks or comics store, etc).
-Typical small HW upgrades with new SKUs (bigger / faster HDD, maybe wifi 802.11n or maybe more RAM, etc)
-Cheaper components (so more price cuts).

To move to a new gen now would be too expensive both for them, the developers and the players. Both consoles have potential to continue selling well and evolving without needing a new gen during some years.

And I'm pretty sure PS4 and Xbox720 will be 2 PS3 ducktaped or 2 X360 ducktaped, like Wii is 2 GameCube ducktaped. To make them cheaper and to make sure the development is easy and "cheap", like in NGP.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Jun 7, 2004
85,527
2
0
[Nintex] said:
By the end of 2012 the Xbox 360 will be 7 years old. They could sell it for what, $99/$199? MS could upgrade their box and throw in all they can for $299/$399. Devs can just upgrade their Unreal Engines and the like. It won't be a Xbox > Xbox 360 leap, but good enough to be a real 'next generation' system. They could also take the Kinect interface with them and upgrade that a year or two down the line. Xbox Live could be upgraded and they would just take that large community with them as well. A lot has happened on the hardware front since 2005 and a new system is pretty much the only way console builders can 'catch up' with the trends.
But they're upgrading their system now. They're adding a GB to the DVD's to give devs more storage and they've released Kinect to give the system more functionality. Sony is now pushing 3D and Move. They've both done stuff to increase to longevity of their current systems which seems to be more of an indication of them wanting to stick with them longer than normal. It really wouldn't make sense for them to release a new console now when the 360 is selling so well. Why cut that off?

I'm just not expecting new consoles until late 2013 or some time in 2014.
 

onQ123

Report me for starting troll threads. Ban warning.
May 1, 2010
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SolidSnakex said:
Why would they do that when the 360 is doing so well? Both the PS3 and 360 are actually doing really well. Neither Sony or MS have any real reason to launch a new system that soon. I also think that both of them actually do understand that most third party devs don't want that to happen right now. They were beat up pretty badly this gen and are just starting to get back on their feet.
The PS2 & DS was still flying off the shelf when the PS3 & 3DS came out
 
Aug 10, 2008
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U.S.A.
Thunderbear said:
Why? Nintendo is selling you 2 years old technology, and unless they change that strategy that's what you are going to see with the next console. It's going to be a bit faster than the Xbox360 and PS3 but nowhere near what we (in my opinion) deserve for a true next generation machine even if launched next year.
I didn't enjoy the DS hardly at all due to a few factors 1)3D games looked like CRAP. All blocky. 2) I wasn't a fan of the software, for the most part.

The 3DS has corrected the first problem and seems to be correcting the second. Is it going to be NGP quality? Of course not. But thats ok. The online capabilities, the increased graphical quality, and upcoming software, plus the 3D capabilities makes this a winner for me.

In terms of their next console being gimped graphically? It's going to be better than the 360/PS3 visually and that is fine by me since I, as I am not expecting revolution type of hardware. I'll leave that up to Sony. Just give me Zelda and Mario in 3D and I'll be happy.

Thunderbear said:
At this rate, I am afraid that if Sony and MS are really not going to bring out new machines until 2015 or later that it will leave the room open for other platforms like the iPad, which will surpass Xbox360/PS3 quality within 2 years (I mean shit, iPad 2 already has the same amount of ram already!), to dominate the gaming market. And with that companies will struggle to decide whether they are going to attempt high budget games on a platform where $1-$10 is the accepted price range in the consumer's mind -- as that's what they are used to getting.

Rising costs in development is not entirely true, and I keep saying this. The content creation tools are so different compared to 2005-2006 when this generation launched. We also have the event of PSN and XBLA which has changed the nature of the range of studios ability to survive in today's market place.

Where it used to take 2-3 months to create a character, these days it's possible to create a fully, high-poly model with high-res textures within 1 week by a strong Z-brush artist. If anything, the time spent on that side is optimizing, making sure your UVs are perfectly optimized and splitting up spec, AO, etc. maps intelligently. Optimization is the real time-killer. If we had massively powerful hardware where less optimization was necessary time would be saved. And tools in that area are even getting better and better all the time with auto-generating UV tools getting better and better every few months.

The Unreal Engine from GDC running on three 580s was created by a few people in 3 months. For what they created, that's pretty damn amazing. We need a PS4/Xbox720 by 2013 at the latest IMO or the industry is going to change drastically -- and not in the way us hardcore gamers might like.
Why are you mentioning ram for the iPad and comparing it to the ram of the PS3 and 360? You DO realize that both of these machines are 5 & 6 years old respectively, right? And that the new iPad is a month old, RIGHT? You also realize that the iPad has more than just minigames and the internet to worry about, right?

The industry is going to change drastically no matter what. It already is changing whether you like it or not. Releasing something in 2013 instead of 2014-15 isn't going to stop the inevitable. That inevitable isn't the death blow to what you refer to as hardcore gaming. Its simply the evolution of the industry. Sony isn't going to stop offering Gran Turismo, God of War, Uncharted and Microsoft isn't going to stop offering Halo, Gears of War, and Forza. Activision isn't going to stop offering Call of Duty and EA isn't going to stop offering Battlefield. There's too much money to be made from those types of games from the millions of gamers who will pony up the dollars regardless of what is happening on the mobile and Apple horizon. Stop pulling the sky is falling card.
 
Aug 10, 2008
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theBishop said:
I do hope we see a PS3 "Slimmer", because the current unit isn't enough to make me upgrade from my 60GB launch system. But a "PS3.5" with more power makes no sense.

One thing I'd like to see is PC and maybe even OnLive get out ahead with some games that simply can't be done on console. Crytek jumped the gun a few years ago with Crysis1, but now Crysis-capable hardware costs about the same as a console.

And OnLive is just a no brainer. There's no limit to graphics they can push over an ethernet cable. They have a window right now, where they can sponsor some high-end games and get those little Microconsoles into people's livingrooms before the next crop of consoles is ready. Imagine sending a game invite over facebook to play something significantly more advanced than Crysis, and anyone on your friend's list already has what they need to play it. Sign up for a free account, download the < 1MB client, and you're playing.
Why in the world would Sony or Microsoft choose to release these mid-generation consoles which would just splinter their userbase? Its not happening and people just need to accept it. Their mid-generational releases were Kinect and PSMove respectively.

Nobody is releasing an exclusive game for OnLive. You do realize that there are simply not enough users who use the service for a publisher to spend millions on it, right? Crytek has proven with Crysis 2 that they're no longer in the mood to focus on one subset of the gaming public and thereby excluding millions and millions of dollars.
 

Zeal

Banned
Feb 11, 2007
3,528
0
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thuway said:
I've said this before, but diminishing returns are proving to rear their heads. I would want PS4 to touch Final Fantasy Versus XIII CG in real time.

Whatever the next consoles are, they need to throw everything in there. One of the more interesting theories I read was -


An ARM CPU with SPUs :-O.
this is a good post and i agree. if next-gen systems are gonna be made, and its inevitable they are, you really need a generational leap to get people to give up their current systems. PS4 and Xbox3 need to be able to do things that are completely impossible on current architecture. put all your eggs in one basket and just go for it.

everything i've read about the future ARM architecture makes it sound like it is truly the next major leap in computing altogether. invest heavily in this.
 
Aug 10, 2008
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animlboogy said:
If they can figure out how to promote portables as being equally usable to hook up to televisions and use as consoles like we're used to, I would be happy to see that shift. If split-screen is going to keep dying the same slow death it has been, I'd like some kind of positive counterweight. Needing only one console for portable and console play would help me swallow that bitter pill.
On one hand I see that being the eventual reality while on the other hand it'd be cutting out millions of pieces of hardware and software.
 

Wazzim

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Sep 21, 2009
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Funny to read threads like this one. People were saying that new consoles should come around 2012 in 2010, now people are pushing them to 2014.
Hardware wise their both very much dated but the sales are better than ever but I still think we'll see something on 2011's E3. Sony might reveal something later due NGP-PS3 functions and the major losses they need to earn back. MS on the other hand, has nothing to lose.
The very first will be Nintendo though, Wii 2 just has to be revealed this year.
 

theBishop

Banned
Nov 26, 2006
17,210
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LovingSteam said:
Why in the world would Sony or Microsoft choose to release these mid-generation consoles which would just splinter their userbase? Its not happening and people just need to accept it. Their mid-generational releases were Kinect and PSMove respectively.

Nobody is releasing an exclusive game for OnLive. You do realize that there are simply not enough users who use the service for a publisher to spend millions on it, right? Crytek has proven with Crysis 2 that they're no longer in the mood to focus on one subset of the gaming public and thereby excluding millions and millions of dollars.
Me said:
But a "PS3.5" with more power makes no sense.
I didn't say exclusive to OnLive, I said "sponsored" by OnLive. I think it actually helps their platform if a would-be PC exclusive tech showcase game is also available on OnLive where anyone can play it.
 
Aug 10, 2008
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theBishop said:
I didn't say exclusive to OnLive, I said "sponsored" by OnLive. I think it actually helps their platform if a would-be PC exclusive tech showcase game is also available on OnLive where anyone can play it.
Not happening, sorry. OnLive males money byselling games. Do you think Sony or Microsoft will let that happen?
 

jeff_rigby

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Aug 7, 2010
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Wazzim said:
Funny to read threads like this one. People were saying that new consoles should come around 2012 in 2010, now people are pushing them to 2014.
Hardware wise their both very much dated but the sales are better than ever but I still think we'll see something on 2011's E3. Sony might reveal something later due NGP-PS3 functions and the major losses they need to earn back. MS on the other hand, has nothing to lose.
The very first will be Nintendo though, Wii 2 just has to be revealed this year.
The PS3-NGP-S1-Playstation Phone-(Android two screen rumor) PS3 ecosystem and webkit upgrade will probably be announced at E3. Software upgrades

After 2012 with 20nm process available a fanless low power PS3, "N" wireless LAN, no noisy HDMI output chip, low power standby is a lock. Less likely but still possible it might have a Cell that is more efficient (optimized with fewer clock cycles for functions) and more memory.

Current PS3s with less memory using Hard Disk cache would just be potentially slower that newer PS3s and then only with games pushing the edge like GT5.

There will be a big market for the PS3 for multi-media with current generation PS3s.
 

AranhaHunter

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Mar 20, 2006
10,669
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jeff_rigby said:
The PS3-NGP-S1-Playstation Phone-(Android two screen rumor) PS3 ecosystem and webkit upgrade will probably be announced at E3. Software upgrades

After 2012 with 20nm process available a fanless low power PS3, "N" wireless LAN, no noisy HDMI output chip, low power standby is a lock. Less likely but still possible it might have a Cell that is more efficient (optimized with fewer clock cycles for functions) and more memory.

Current PS3s with less memory using Hard Disk cache would just be potentially slower that newer PS3s and then only with games pushing the edge like GT5.

There will be a big market for the PS3 for multi-media with current generation PS3s.
Pretty much, there's still big room for PS3. 2 big price points to reach (U$199 and U$99) and a slimmer revision. The 360 still has 1 big price point to reach (U$99) and possibly a revision.

I expect a U$199 PS3 and U$129 360 this Fall, a slimmer PS3 next year with 20nm and then a U$99 PS3 in 2013.
 

Gravijah

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Dec 7, 2008
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Gen X said:
Probably just some sort of upgrade like the PSX was to the PS2. ;)

http://resource.mmgn.com/Gallery/full/4RMRNXD9.jpg[mg][/QUOTE]

Sony did that shit to fuck with all of us people who call the PS1 the PSX.
 

eastmen

Banned
May 20, 2010
4,790
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Thunderbear said:
Why? Nintendo is selling you 2 years old technology, and unless they change that strategy that's what you are going to see with the next console. It's going to be a bit faster than the Xbox360 and PS3 but nowhere near what we (in my opinion) deserve for a true next generation machine even if launched next year.
I don't think nintendo will ever use cutting edge tech again. I bet we will see the wii hd using an AMD Llano quad core with a 66x0 series intergrated gpu at around 65w and prob 1-2 gigs of ram and it will sell for $200 -$250


At this rate, I am afraid that if Sony and MS are really not going to bring out new machines until 2015 or later that it will leave the room open for other platforms like the iPad, which will surpass Xbox360/PS3 quality within 2 years (I mean shit, iPad 2 already has the same amount of ram already!), to dominate the gaming market. And with that companies will struggle to decide whether they are going to attempt high budget games on a platform where $1-$10 is the accepted price range in the consumer's mind -- as that's what they are used to getting.
The ipad 2 is going to struggle bringing you xbox 360/ps3 level graphics and remember if the ipad keeps increasing in power as it is , it will out pace battery advancement and it will keep leaving the previous gen or two obsolete. No serious devs will want to dump 10-20m on a title that will be playable only on 1 gen of ipads

The ipad 2 has 512 megs of ram and the good andriod tablets have 1gig of ram , the problem is that in many cases the bandwidth is much lower and of course an ipad 2 is $500 . You can buy an xbox 360 slim brand new for $200 bucks right now

When the xbox 3 and ps4 finally come out in 2013 or so we will see them with 4-8 gigs of ram because ram is becoming very cheap. Desktop ram is on 40nm right now and you can buy 8 gigs for $130 with 1866 speeds. Its supposed to hit 30nm later this year and we will see the price drop even more. Next gen consoles will have a ton of ram because it will be the cheapest thing to get alot of power from.

Lets also not forget that power diffrences avalible. The xbox 360 launched in 2005 and the ipad 2 in 2011 in about 6 years its taken for the ipad to catch up and in many ways it still hasn't caught up (cpu power) A 2012/13 xbox 3 can use gpus like the radeon 6970 class hardware and it will take another half a decade or more for the ipad to catch up.

Rising costs in development is not entirely true, and I keep saying this. The content creation tools are so different compared to 2005-2006 when this generation launched. We also have the event of PSN and XBLA which has changed the nature of the range of studios ability to survive in today's market place.
Look at it this way. The ps2 /xbox had 32/64MB of ram. The xbox 360 /ps3 has 512 megs of ram. 16 to 8 times the amount of ram to fill with assets. If we go to 8 gigs which i expect for a 2013 system your looking at another 16 times increase in ram almost. This will certianly push development costs up from what it is today.


The Unreal Engine from GDC running on three 580s was created by a few people in 3 months. For what they created, that's pretty damn amazing. We need a PS4/Xbox720 by 2013 at the latest IMO or the industry is going to change drastically -- and not in the way us hardcore gamers might like.
Yes a 2 minute video with very little texture assets was made in 3 months. Now imagine how long epic would need to make a gears of war length game using those assets or better for an entire game that doesn't have the same 5 models in it .

The market wont change at all . People will love the ipad 3/4 xoom 3/4 and what have you but consoles will come out and they will offer tons of experiances that tablets can't offer and people will flock back and graphics will be one of them.

I don't see how you can seriously compare a console with a 200watt thresh hold to something that needs to be under 5watts of power usage like a tablet. Todays tablets are just now beinging to hold a candle to 6 year old hardware like the xbox 360.

If ms and sony target the same envolope for the next gen systems as they did previous ones then the current day tablets wont even be in the same league
 

eastmen

Banned
May 20, 2010
4,790
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0
theBishop said:
Yeah, I wouldn't put out a new console until one of the major technology licensing developers can launch with a finished game using their next-gen engine. When 360 first came out, Mark Rein was saying it was "ambitious" to put out an UE3 game before Gears was ready. Assuming MS plans to stay friendly with Epic (and Crytek?), Sony should be cultivating a relationship with Valve and/or Id right about now.

They are already doing this . Crytek engine 3 , unreal engine and even id tech all have working engines that exceed the specs api's specs of todays consoles. The gulf will only get bigger as more and more pc users move to dx 11 .

AMD is making huge moves for us gamers by intergrating solid gpus into their cpu line up and not charging crazy amounts for it .

Just look at the netbook segment. You used to get an atom cpu with a really bad intel igp or you could spend more for an nvidia ion /2 . Now for $35 bucks you can get a dual core 1.6ghz bravos with a 62x0 gpu. The gpu isn't a barn burner by any means but it plays alot of 2005-2008 games really well and its dirt cheap.

Llano is coming and it will be a quad core with 66x0 graphics capabilitys. Its going to cost oems between $50and $200 depending on the model. From what i've seen of demos and leaks its going to offer pretty close to radeon 5770 performance which at entry level laptops through the $800 range should be pretty darn good and a drastic leap from the old IGP performance.

Whats more is that both of these chips the bobcats and llanos can be linked to a discrete gpu and run in crossfire mode.

The pc land scape is changing drasticly and devs will want to start taking advantage of it , esp because margins are so large. they can charge $60 for a title on steam and get 70% of the profits which is far greater than what they get on an xbox or ps or wii . So they wont need to sell as many units to make a profit .

We are going to see pc gaming come back in a big way in the next 2-3 years. Battlefield 3 is just the start of it .
 

paskowitz

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Jul 31, 2009
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If they can figure out a way to make the XMB smoother, run cooler, quitter, more efficiently, cut down on loading times and installs by making a HW change then I am all for it. No performance hit for 3D would also be nice but is not really a big deal. There are also other, more simple things they could do like upgrading the wifi to N maybe even give it MiFi. Throw in a 100gb+ SSD. Maybe an extra bit of memory for move. IDK, just nothing too fragmenting.

From talking to some IBM plant workers I know, they did in fact scrap their recent plans for the next system. That does not mean the system is on hold. They are just re-evaluating their options. I am sure the same thing happened when the PS3 was being developed. It is hard to look into a magical spy glass and see what the future of the tech and video game industry is going to be / require.

4K?... because we need higher resolution that this...
 

Snipes424

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Jun 20, 2008
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With RAM being so cheap I wonder why the PS3 uses so little.

It's just something that I never understood.

I hope they don't make the same mistake with the PS4. I'd say at lest 4 gigs would be fine.
 

Log4Girlz

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May 23, 2006
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I'm ignorant of the psnstore, I don't own a ps3. How does it compare to Steam? I think the future of these devices is to offer the best user experience and I love Steam.
 

Zen

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Jun 24, 2005
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Snipes424 said:
With RAM being so cheap I wonder why the PS3 uses so little.

It's just something that I never understood.

I hope they don't make the same mistake with the PS4. I'd say at lest 4 gigs would be fine.
Well, cheap now. The PS3 also has 256 XDR ram which is more expensive. It goes without saying that if they hadn't dumped a huge amount of money into Cell/BRD and had such high manufacturing costs that we might have gotten 1 gig and a slightly better GPU.
 

eastmen

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May 20, 2010
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Snipes424 said:
With RAM being so cheap I wonder why the PS3 uses so little.

It's just something that I never understood.

I hope they don't make the same mistake with the PS4. I'd say at lest 4 gigs would be fine.

in 2005 when the ps3 should have come out (bluray delayed it ) the average computers had 2-4 GBs of ram and video cars were still at 512 megs.

So the 512 megs in the ps3 isn't bad per say. I think if they made the smart choice of skipping bluray for more memory they might have gone 1GB.

Remember it was epic who convinced MS to go with 512megs of ram vs 256 megs of ram. It was rumored to have cost almost 1B for ms to do over the life of the system. If ms had stuck with 256 megs it would have been a whole diffrent gen with ps3 easily having the visual advantage.

I think another thing to remember is that these consoles use fast ram . DDR3 1866 wouldn't really be fast enough for the gpus in next gen consoles. We will most likely see them using GDDR 4 and XDR ram in next gen consoles.

Still 8 gigs should be doable for 2013 consoles
 

UltimaKilo

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I've been clamoring for a PS3.5 for a while. A quieter, cooler, more energy efficient (22 nm) PS3 that would allow for lighting speed menu navigation and running multiple thugs at once... Like being able to run a web browser while playing a video game. They could shrink the size of the system further still, marginally lower the price, and release a whole new OS. Frankly the PS3 OS is clunky and feature-lacking.

I think this could provide a huge boost to PS3 sales and extend the life-cycle by a couple of years while really helping developers and the industry. Sony could also expand the downloadable gaming market for new titles.
 

UltimaKilo

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[Nintex] said:
By the end of 2012 the Xbox 360 will be 7 years old. They could sell it for what, $99/$199? MS could upgrade their box and throw in all they can for $299/$399. Devs can just upgrade their Unreal Engines and the like. It won't be a Xbox > Xbox 360 leap, but good enough to be a real 'next generation' system. They could also take the Kinect interface with them and upgrade that a year or two down the line. Xbox Live could be upgraded and they would just take that large community with them as well. A lot has happened on the hardware front since 2005 and a new system is pretty much the only way console builders can 'catch up' with the trends.
First off, there is not enough time to hype a new system for a 2011/2012 release. Early 2013 would be cutting it close, but Q1 is not really a great time to release a console by consumer trend standards.

Secondly, the consoles are all selling very well, and in an unsure economic climate, gambling on a new platform can be desasterous and offer very little upside.

NGP will add a new revenue stream while promoting the Nintendo and Playstation brands. Developers are only now comfortable with this generation and flirting with the idea of new hardware is risky.

The iPad and iPhone are still a couple of years away from competing, and lowering developent costs and large installation bases make developers and publishers cozy. Bringing in new hardware with an install base of 0 to compete with Apple Inc. is lunacy outside of NGPs.

A reinvention of current hardware to smaller, quieter and more efficient architecture, packaged with a revamped OS and faster speeds is what these companies should be aiming at. 2014/2015 would then be an ideal time to release new hardware.

Nintendo may try to beat the competitors and release hardware that would be a PS3.9 of sorts at a reasonable price-point in Q2 or 3 2013. Obviously I hav no idea what they're planning and what production costs might look like with that technology for Q2 2013. :O
 

jeff_rigby

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UltimaKilo said:
First off, there is not enough time to hype a new system for a 2011/2012 release. Early 2013 would be cutting it close, but Q1 is not really a great time to release a console by consumer trend standards.

Secondly, the consoles are all selling very well, and in an unsure economic climate, gambling on a new platform can be desasterous and offer very little upside.

NGP will add a new revenue stream while promoting the Nintendo and Playstation brands. Developers are only now comfortable with this generation and flirting with the idea of new hardware is risky.

The iPad and iPhone are still a couple of years away from competing, and lowering developent costs and large installation bases make developers and publishers cozy. Bringing in new hardware with an install base of 0 to compete with Apple Inc. is lunacy outside of NGPs.

A reinvention of current hardware to smaller, quieter and more efficient architecture, packaged with a revamped OS and faster speeds is what these companies should be aiming at. 2014/2015 would then be an ideal time to release new hardware.

Nintendo may try to beat the competitors and release hardware that would be a PS3.9 of sorts at a reasonable price-point in Q2 or 3 2013. Obviously I hav no idea what they're planning and what production costs might look like with that technology for Q2 2013. :O
I agree with all the above and would add:

"packaged with a revamped OS" I think this is where the PS3 is headed. An ecosystem-webkit OS system rewrite is I think coming. Using a Cairo Scalable Vector Graphics library instead of low level GPU. This will result in smaller applications (XMB) and more efficient use of memory. When? by Sept-Oct when the Android S1 is released. Edit: and with Cairo-Pango, international fonts.

Zooming_user_interface
In computing, a zooming user interface or zoomable user interface (ZUI, pronounced zoo-ee) is a graphical environment where users can change the scale of the viewed area in order to see more detail or less, and browse through different documents. A ZUI is a type of graphical user interface (GUI). Information elements appear directly on an infinite virtual desktop (usually created using vector graphics), instead of in windows.

Apple's iPhone (premiered June 2007) uses a stylized form of ZUI, in which panning and zooming are performed through a touch interface. It is not a full ZUI implementation since these operations are applied to bounded spaces (such as web pages or photos) and have a limited range of zooming and panning.
sonys-high-res-image-enlargement-engine-gives-infinite-zoom/
This pan’n'zoom effect, which gives Playstation products an easy, seamless way to navigate mindbendingly huge images, is part of a new library that’ll be seeding out to developers before too long, though it’s not clear exactly what for. It’s a novel way to navigate a brochure, or a massive, stitched panorama, or even a comic-strip-type storyboard, and the addition zoom-triggered video content gives it a discernible advantage over similar technologies we’ve seen.
And the new library that the above article mentions Sony is seeding out to developers is mentioned below in the Sony SNAP (Application) developers site.

Sony Network Application Program developer website About

SNAP has a re-architected display model and backend based on Cairo evolving toward COLLADA over time. Our look and feel also includes navigation metaphors derived from standard Sony UX constructs such as our XrossMediaBar.
"re-architected display model and backend based on Cairo evolving toward supporting COLLADA". COLLADA is an open source standard file format for game assets.

The above is a BIG statement, re-architected means they are going to change the way they display from what they use now to Cairo based. Back end means low level PSGL, so the basic backbone for graphics on Sony products will be built on the upper level cairo SVG library rather than low level GPU calls.

And they expect that upper level Cairo to evolve to support the feature set needed by games. PSGL is not OpenGL and Cairo may be a way to standardize graphics/GPU by supporting Cairo with Sony developed PSGL. The end result is Cairo on any platform be it PSGL supported or OpenGL will produce the same results. PS Suite may use cairo.

The Cairo SVG library is in the PS3 NOW. Edit: just disclosed in the required Webkit disclosure

1) Cairo SVG was required for the HTML5 javascript engine in firmware 3.5
2) is being used by GT5 for the Infinite Zoom picture database of cars
3) Home's Lua client is now using Cairo (results in a smaller application size, more shader features and resolution/platform independence)

The strength of the PS3 Cell SPU is VECTOR calculations as in Cairo SVG graphics! "Play up to your strengths."

There is supportable speculation that all applications on the PS3 will be/are now being rewritten to use Cairo instead of low level GPU. This is a lock for the coming webkit port for the PS3. Using Cairo SVG with Pango (coming/required for the webkit port) for system fonts will allow EASY PS3 support for ALL languages and character sets.

IBM Article on Cross platform graphics with Cairo

A significant design decision in cairo is to support nearly identical output to the greatest extent possible. This consistent output lends itself exceptionally well for GUI toolkit programming, or cross-platform application development. The ability to print a screen at high resolution, and draw on the screen contents with the same drawing library has obvious advantages.

An added benefit to the vector nature of cairo drawing is that vector images tend to be smaller in size. This is because a relatively large amount of information can be encoded in a relatively small equation. The beauty of vector drawing is that the drawing tends to be relatively straightforward. The onus of actually converting the points, lines, and their associated equations into something you can see rests on the drawing library.

As mentioned previously, several graphics toolkits provide bindings to make cairo development even easier. Gtk+ versions newer than 2.8 contain full support for cairo, and cairo has been selected as the strategic drawing system to support future GTK releases. Additionally, toolkits like GNUstep and FLTK are beginning to support cairo for their graphics rendering needs.

Cairo makes perfect sense to select as your drawing API if you plan on doing anything cross-platform that requires low-level control of drawing operations and compositing. And if you want to have the cross-platform capabilities but do not want to draw at a low level, there are some other convenience drawing libraries that sit on top of cairo. Cairo-Clutter

Applications of cairo in the wild
A large number of influential open source projects have jumped on the cairo bandwagon, and cairo has positioned itself to be a huge player in the Linux graphics space. Some of the more influential projects that are already embracing cairo are:

Gtk+, everyone's favorite cross platform graphics toolkit
Pango, a Free Software library for laying out and rendering text, with emphasis on internationalization
Gnome, a Free Linux Software desktop environment
Mozilla, cross-platform Web browser infrastructure on which Firefox is based
OpenOffice.org, a free software office suite comparable to Microsoft Office
Using Cairo SVG with Pango for system fonts will allow EASY PS3 support for ALL languages/character sets.

Both Android and Apple iOS use SVG graphics.

Side note; I just got banned from Beyond 3D for continuing to mention both Cairo (upper level SVG graphics) and Gstreamer (all things Audio/Video) in several threads. It appears that the moderator does not understand what these libraries do or how important they are. The Snap Developer program mentions Gstreamer and Cairo in ALL Sony networked products and both are in Firefox. They are Standards for Linux (PC, CE and embedded) platforms and according to the IBM article, Cairo is going to play a large part in cross platform applications meaning the libraries will be on all platforms. Do your own research if you don't believe it.

I can not understand why this has not been picked up and discussed as the implications in the above can not be overstated. How sure am I of this?

Cairo 100% Mentioned in the Snap developer program & LGPL Webkit disclosure
Gstreamer 90% Mentioned in the Snap developer program, in webkit port, Marlin DRM in PS3 appears to prefer Gstreamer for player and looking at how Gstreamer works and the 200 plugins, it's obvious that Gstreamer is being used in the PS3. Gstreamer with Cairo bindings (what it can do anyway) is now a WebGL standard (Firefox demo).
Cairo is being used by GT5 for the Infinite Zoom picture database of cars confident
Home's Lua client is now using Lua with Cairo bindings confident
 

SamBishop

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www.totalplaystation.com
Thunderbear said:
Why? Nintendo is selling you 2 years old technology, and unless they change that strategy that's what you are going to see with the next console. It's going to be a bit faster than the Xbox360 and PS3 but nowhere near what we (in my opinion) deserve for a true next generation machine even if launched next year.

At this rate, I am afraid that if Sony and MS are really not going to bring out new machines until 2015 or later that it will leave the room open for other platforms like the iPad, which will surpass Xbox360/PS3 quality within 2 years (I mean shit, iPad 2 already has the same amount of ram already!), to dominate the gaming market. And with that companies will struggle to decide whether they are going to attempt high budget games on a platform where $1-$10 is the accepted price range in the consumer's mind -- as that's what they are used to getting.

Rising costs in development is not entirely true, and I keep saying this. The content creation tools are so different compared to 2005-2006 when this generation launched. We also have the event of PSN and XBLA which has changed the nature of the range of studios ability to survive in today's market place.

Where it used to take 2-3 months to create a character, these days it's possible to create a fully, high-poly model with high-res textures within 1 week by a strong Z-brush artist. If anything, the time spent on that side is optimizing, making sure your UVs are perfectly optimized and splitting up spec, AO, etc. maps intelligently. Optimization is the real time-killer. If we had massively powerful hardware where less optimization was necessary time would be saved. And tools in that area are even getting better and better all the time with auto-generating UV tools getting better and better every few months.

The Unreal Engine from GDC running on three 580s was created by a few people in 3 months. For what they created, that's pretty damn amazing. We need a PS4/Xbox720 by 2013 at the latest IMO or the industry is going to change drastically -- and not in the way us hardcore gamers might like.
I don't mean to seem like a dick here, but you have a weirdly, wildly incomprehensible of that the next generation is going to play out. Nintendo has never been a company that misunderstands the hardware landscape. They have (recently) chosen to forego that in the hope (and promise) that a new control/interface method might do more.

The successor the Wii will be, frankly, a mind-blowing application of both those schools. And, in turn, the PS3 and the 360 will be right there, and all of them will change things in interface, hardware and interaction with our future devices in ways we don't yet get. Nintendo is fine. They know when to go full-bore on hardware. They aren't stupid. They also have a decent (if misguided) idea of where hardware is going.

2012 will indeed be the end of the world, the end of a long counter. And the start of a new age, just as the Mayan calendar says. I kinda like what starting from one means. A new baseline. And it's only going to get more interesting from here. The best part? We all get to enjoy it together.
 

jeff_rigby

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jeff_rigby said:
"re-architected display model and backend based on Cairo evolving toward supporting COLLADA". COLLADA is an open source standard file format for game assets.

The above is a BIG statement, re-architected means they are going to change the way they display from what they use now to Cairo based. Back end means low level PSGL, so the basic backbone for graphics on Sony products will be built on the upper level cairo SVG library rather than low level GPU calls.

And they expect that upper level Cairo to evolve to support the feature set needed by games. PSGL is not OpenGL and Cairo may be a way to standardize graphics/GPU by supporting Cairo with Sony developed PSGL. The end result is Cairo on any platform be it PSGL supported or OpenGL will produce the same results. PS Suite may use cairo.

The Cairo SVG library is in the PS3 NOW.

1) Cairo SVG was required for the HTML5 javascript engine in firmware 3.5
2) is being used by GT5 for the Infinite Zoom picture database of cars
3) Home's Lua client is now using Cairo (results in a smaller application size, more shader features and resolution/platform independence)

The strength of the PS3 Cell SPU is VECTOR calculations as in Cairo SVG graphics! "Play up to your strengths."

There is supportable speculation that all applications on the PS3 will be/are now being rewritten to use Cairo instead of low level GPU. This is a lock for the coming webkit port for the PS3 which we were told would be Cairo based. Using Cairo SVG with Pango (coming/required for the webkit port) for system fonts will allow EASY PS3 support for ALL languages and character sets.

IBM Article on Cross platform graphics with Cairo


Using Cairo SVG with Pango for system fonts will allow EASY PS3 support for ALL languages/character sets.
Both Android and Apple iOS use SVG graphics. Now the PS3 will follow. Why; to support WebGL and SVG graphics in the browser.

Sony is going to support SVG graphics and WebGL games. For this reason (see article below) Sony is providing Chrome browsers on their PC platforms. Chrome as do most browsers (non-microsoft) supports SVG graphics and WebGL.


ie9-good-for-microsoft-bad-for-developers

any of you remember, SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics) was introduced as a standard in 1999. Everyone except for Microsoft adopted the new technology. Rather than adopt the new SVG standard, Microsoft decided to create it’s own “standard” called VML. Because of this, you, as a developer, couldn’t rely on native SVG support. Sure, users could easily download a plugin for Internet Explorer but it wasn’t something you could count on. As a result, the new (at that time) SVG format never really became the new cutting edge graphics standard on the web that it should have been. Ever wonder why HTML 5 has two standards for graphics (canvas and SVG)? You can thank Microsoft.

Now, 11 years later, Microsoft has finally adopted native SVG support in it’s latest browser. At least that “revolution” can finally begin. There is however, a new elephant in the room and it’s name is WebGL.

For those of you who may not know, WebGL is an extension of the OpenGL 3D graphics library. Firefox, Chrome, Opera and Safari all support it. Can you guess which new browser doesn’t? If you guessed Internet Explorer 9, you are correct and deserve a cookie! Now, technically WebGL isn’t an HTML 5 standard so some might say Microsoft is justified in not supporting it. But, everyone else is and us web developers are eager to start putting out some awesome 3D web applications.
The strength of the PS3 Cell SPU is VECTOR calculations as in Cairo SVG graphics! The PS3 webkit port is based on Cairo and will support 3D and WebGL 3D games with the SVG standard.

It's almost as if the PS3 was designed to be a webGL game platform.

Comparison of web technologies (old news)
..............Chrome.......Firefox......Internet Explorer........Opera......Safari....PS3 Netfront
SVG........Yes.............Yes...........No.............................Yes..........Yes.......No
Canvas....Yes............ Yes...........No.............................Yes.......... Yes.......No
WebGL.....Yes............Yes[9].......No.............................No............No........No

Firefox uses Cairo as it's SVG library, Chrome uses Skia. There was an effort to insure compliance with the SVG standard with both and Open Source Skia SVG code was ported to the Cairo SVG library. Opera uses it's own SVG library.

News by date:

PS3 gets HTML5 javascript engine with cairo bindings Sept 2010 (more to come)
New Home client 1.4 released with smaller size but more features (Cairo) Nov 2010
GT5 released with infinite Zoom Car database (Cairo) Nov 2010
Cairo Stable release Jan 2011
Webkit based on Cairo Stable release Feb 2011
Kronos group announces final WebGl standard March 2011


Future news but no date

PS3 WebGL HTML5 webkit browser announced when, released when? E3? Oct?
?Complete? rewrite of PS3 applications to use Cairo on going

The above chart will soon become:

Comparison of web technologies New
..............Chrome.......Firefox......Internet Explorer.....Opera....Safari...PS3 Webkit....NGP
SVG........Yes.............Yes...........yes.........................Yes.......Yes.......Yes...............Yes
Canvas....Yes............ Yes...........yes.........................Yes.......Yes.......Yes...............Yes
WebGL.....Yes............Yes...........No..........................yes.......Yes.......Yes...............Yes

khronos-group-launches-final-webgl-spec/

March 7, 2011 The Khronos Group has released the final WebGL 1.0 specification to enable hardware-accelerated 3D graphics in HTML5 web browsers, such as Safari, without the need for plugins.[/B]


WebGL has the support of major silicon and browser vendors including Apple, Google, Mozilla and Opera, with multiple browsers already shipping with WebGL implementations, including the beta releases for Mozilla Firefox 4.0, all channels of Google Chrome 9.0, an Opera preview build and Apple Mac OS Safari nightly builds.

WebGL defines a JavaScript binding to OpenGL ES 2.0 to allow rich 3D graphics within a browser on any platform supporting the industry standard OpenGL or OpenGL ES graphics APIs.

The ability for web developers to directly access OpenGL-class graphics directly from JavaScript, and freely mix 3D with other HTML content, will enable a new wave of innovation in web gaming, educational and training applications and graphically rich user interfaces.

There is already a thriving middleware ecosystem around WebGL to provide a wide diversity of web developers the ability to easily create compelling 3D content for WebGL-enabled browsers. These tools include: C3DL, CopperLicht , EnergizeGL, GammaJS, GLGE, GTW, O3D, OSG.JS, SceneJS, SpiderGL, TDL, Three.js and X3DOM.
Firefox webGL video firefox4beta FlightDemo.mp4

The above is a demo of Firefox WebGL using Cairo and Gstreamer with cairo bindings not native to the platform. The PS3 will have native Cario and Gstreamer support (optimized). Notice the multiple codec video screens (gstreamer) and the perspective changes (gstreamer with cairo bindings) for those screens while video is playing. It's slightly rough with AA issues thus the beta designation.

The backend of Firefox (partial webkit jit code)/cairo/gstreamer/pango-HarfBuzz should be exactly the same as the Sony PS3 GTKWebkit cairo/gstreamer/Pango-HarfBuzz backend port. The front end, implementation and hardware it runs on will create differences.
 

jeff_rigby

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eastmen said:
this thread
Just want you to know that I have found the last few messages from you to be very insightful. Thanks for the posts.

paskowitz said:
From talking to some IBM plant workers I know, they did in fact scrap their recent plans for the next system. That does not mean the system is on hold. They are just re-evaluating their options. I am sure the same thing happened when the PS3 was being developed. It is hard to look into a magical spy glass and see what the future of the tech and video game industry is going to be / require.
You too, thanks for the information, any more you can add?
 

jeff_rigby

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jeff_rigby said:
"packaged with a revamped OS" I think this is where the PS3 is headed. An ecosystem-webkit OS system rewrite is I think coming using a Cairo Scalable Vector Graphics library instead of low level GPU. This will result in smaller applications (XMB) and more efficient use of memory. When? by Sept-Oct when the Android S1 is released.
SamBishop said:
Nintendo has never been a company that misunderstands the hardware landscape. They have (recently) chosen to forego that in the hope (and promise) that a new control/interface method might do more.

The successor the Wii will be, frankly, a mind-blowing application of both those schools. And, in turn, the PS3 and the 360 will be right there, and all of them will change things in interface, hardware and interaction with our future devices in ways we don't yet get. Nintendo is fine. They know when to go full-bore on hardware. They aren't stupid. They also have a decent (if misguided) idea of where hardware is going.

2012 the start of a new age, just as the Mayan calendar says. I kinda like what starting from one means. A new baseline.
SVG graphics, WebGL/webkit, webgames, animated desktops with HTML5, IPTV and Google information search engines = New Baseline

gnome-3-0-released-better-for-users-developers-3

The Gnome Linux desktop (GTK3 toolkit) uses Cairo as it's backend SVG drawing library and integrates javascript into the desktop. I expect Sony to do something similar with the PS3. It may in it's default configuration look and feel the same as the current XMB but many features will lay in wait for different controller and ecosystem configurations. All this because Cairo and javascript (cairo surface) are active on the XMB screen.

The descriptions (below) of the features and advantages in this Gnome desktop can be applied to the new PS3 XMB.

Groton, MA, April 6 2011: Today, the GNOME Desktop project released GNOME 3.0, its most significant redesign of the computer experience in nine years. A revolutionary new user interface and new features for developers make this a historic moment for the free and open source desktop.

Within GNOME 3, GNOME Shell reimagines the user interface for the next generation of the desktop. This innovative interface allows users to focus on tasks while minimizing distractions such as notifications, extra workspaces, and background windows.

GNOME Shell aims to “help us cope with modern life in a busy world. Help us connect, stay on track, feel at ease and in control.” GNOME Shell, he says, will keep users “informed without being disrupted.”

The GNOME 3 development platform includes improvements in the display backend, a new API, improvements in search, user messaging, system settings, and streamlined libraries. GNOME 2 applications will continue to work in the GNOME 3 environment without modification, allowing developers to move to the GNOME 3 environment at their own pace. The GNOME 3 release notes include further details.

The new GNOME Shell is an entire new user experience that was designed from the ground up to improve the usability of the desktop and giving both designers and developers a quick way to improve the desktop and adapt the user interface to new needs. By tightly integrating Javascript with the GNOME platform, designers were able to create and quickly iterate on creating an interface that is both pleasant and exciting to use. I could not be happier with the results.”

GNOME 3 is the cumulative work of five years of planning and design by the GNOME community. McCann notes: “Perhaps the most notable part of the design process is that everything has been done in the open. We’ve had full transparency for every decision (good and bad) and every change we’ve made. We strongly believe in this model. It is not only right in principle — it is just the best way in the long run to build great software sustainably in a large community.”
The above has been in the works for two years and as of April 2010 the Sony SNAP Developer program and new 2011 Sony TVs and Blu-ray players are using Cairo for their display backend. This is coming to the PS3.
 

Manmademan

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SamBishop said:
I don't mean to seem like a dick here, but you have a weirdly, wildly incomprehensible of that the next generation is going to play out. Nintendo has never been a company that misunderstands the hardware landscape. They have (recently) chosen to forego that in the hope (and promise) that a new control/interface method might do more.
don't mean to be a dick, but this is exactly what happened with the N64 (CD's? those will never catch on. Let's keep making carts!) and Gamecube (cute purple boxes with handles are exactly what the market needs!) , and (debatably) the Virtual boy and 64DD- though some would argue those last two systems were sent to die at launch and never really intended to be a success.
 

H_Prestige

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Manmademan said:
don't mean to be a dick, but this is exactly what happened with the N64 (CD's? those will never catch on. Let's keep making carts!) and Gamecube (cute purple boxes with handles are exactly what the market needs!) , and (debatably) the Virtual boy and 64DD- though some would argue those last two systems were sent to die at launch and never really intended to be a success.
Exactly.
 

jeff_rigby

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Manmademan said:
don't mean to be a dick, but this is exactly what happened with the N64 (CD's? those will never catch on. Let's keep making carts!) and Gamecube (cute purple boxes with handles are exactly what the market needs!) , and (debatably) the Virtual boy and 64DD- though some would argue those last two systems were sent to die at launch and never really intended to be a success.
Originally Posted by SamBishop:
Nintendo has never been a company that misunderstands the hardware landscape. They have (recently) chosen to forego that in the hope (and promise) that a new control/interface method might do more.

The successor the Wii will be, frankly, a mind-blowing application of both those schools. And, in turn, the PS3 and the 360 will be right there, and all of them will change things in interface, hardware and interaction with our future devices in ways we don't yet get. Nintendo is fine. They know when to go full-bore on hardware. They aren't stupid. They also have a decent (if misguided) idea of where hardware is going.
The full quote lets you understand that SamBishop does understand the issues you raised.
 

StevieP

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Sep 10, 2006
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Manmademan said:
don't mean to be a dick, but this is exactly what happened with the N64 (CD's? those will never catch on. Let's keep making carts!) and Gamecube (cute purple boxes with handles are exactly what the market needs!) , and (debatably) the Virtual boy and 64DD- though some would argue those last two systems were sent to die at launch and never really intended to be a success.
I'd say they knew exactly what they were doing current gen. And got it right, clearly.

You too, thanks for the information, any more you can add?
Yes, I would also like to know more. Interesting that they went to IBM... again.
 

jeff_rigby

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StevieP said:
I'd say they knew exactly what they (Nintendo Wii) were doing current gen. And got it right, clearly.
Looks like a Wii 2 announcement E3. It doesn't appear to be rumor (like the last 2 years of Wii2 rumors). We now have pictures and details of the hardware.



http://www.businessinsider.com/wii-2-dubbed-stream-significantly-more-powerful-than-ps3-2011-4

a custom, triple-core IBM PowerPC CPU, 512 MB of RAM, and a graphics processor from ATI's R700 family. That puts the rumored GPU at two generations ahead of the processor powering the Xbox 360, which is based on the R500 family. The current generation of ATI's PC graphics solutions are based on the Northern Islands family, which is another two generations ahead of the R700.

Project Cafe's controllers are also supposed to stand out from the crowd, sporting a six-inch touch screen on each unit alongside a front-facing camera, two analog sticks, a D-Pad, two triggers, and “possibly more” buttons.

Today, IGN has revealed a little more information about the system's hardware. The system is being manufactured in Taiwan by Foxconn, with a possible retail price range of $300 to $400 based on manufacturing costs. The specs remain true to 01net's rumors, but also bring full 1080p output to the table, and possible support for stereoscopic 3D. In addition, game content can be streamed to the touch screen on the controller, allowing for some interesting possibilities in multiplayer. IGN pegs a possible retail name for Project Cafe as the “Nintendo Stream”, with a potential release date anywhere from mid-October 2011 to early 2012.
Fanless? From the picture that appears the case. So 20nm like the speculated 2012 fanless PS3. Same CPU as the Xbox but a better GPU. Fanless though, it has to be in the same class as the current PS3 and Xbox.

This should put a fire under both Xbox and PS3 and result in new features for both.

In Beyond 3d the discussions about the use of the 6 inch touch screen revolve around games. I think they have missed the obvious use which is for touch screen control of the Wii2 for applications and multi-media. If the Wii2 controller is cheap enough it gives Nintendo an advantage over the PS3-NGP or Android combo which will be expensive.

So the Wii2 (my opinion) will hit the market at about the same time as the PS3 with it's ecosystem and be cheaper. The advantage for Sony is their ultraviolet DRM and ecosystem use outside the home, Wii2 controller locked to the living room but Sony NGP and Android platforms can be anywhere and still interact with the PSN and the Home PS3.
 

jeff_rigby

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banKai said:
Thanks for the link. I should have included it in my post.

This thread is about "Sony on the future direction of PS3 and NGP, Watch Impress editor speculates on PS4".

Sony would obviously know about the Wii2 in advance, it's being built at the same China Foxconn plant that makes the PS3. Now that we know about Wii2 details we can support some of the speculation in this thread.

For instance a 20nm Fanless PS3 or 3.5 is more likely in 2012. The PS3 webkit and ecosystem rewrite is more likely and more likely to be more extensive.

I remember a monochrome tablet made in India that was supposed to retail for $75 and 7 inch tablets retailing at $136.00 early this year. Kodak wifi touchscreen picture frames are $99.00 so I expect a stripped down 6 inch multi-touch screen controller for game consoles to be way under $99. Will Sony support third party multi-touch touchpad (no LCD screen) keyboards and LCD touchscreens for use with the PS3? Seems more likely now.
 

jeff_rigby

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Machado said:
sorry dude, wii2 pic ain't official
Do you have any information that conflicts with this?

http://gamespundit.com/1124/wii-2-sdk-image-leaked

It is important to note, however, that this image is probably not meant for the general public to see (ie. we will not see this at E3) and is for developers instead. That console pictured could also be the SDK (development) unit, but considering the fact that Nintendo’s dev units in the past have not differed greatly from the retail version, what we could be seeing might be a real indication of what we might see in June.

Nintendo appear to be touting cheap development costs too with unparalleled gaming performance which is very interesting from a gamers’ standpoint. As everyone knows, the Wii is nowhere near the Xbox 360 and PS3 in terms on graphics which is the very reason why many developers have ceased porting their multiplatform games to the system. This could bring them crawling back, though.

Other interesting points on the image include easy porting between PC and Xbox 360 which I assume basically means that it will be using the same CPU/GPU architecture as PC’s and 360&#8242;s, not the CELL and other complicated things that Sony used in the PS3. Developers will be very happy to hear that. Also they have noted anytime live update which is something that the Wii is sorely missing and some Live Framework that I am unsure of what it is but it shouldn’t concern us consumers.

As for the console itself, we can see 3 lights on the unit and what I presume is an eject button just left of these. There is also a Nintendo logo on the side of the console. It appears to be using the same “suck-in” DVD drive that the Wii used too.

And that’s about everything that we get from this simple image. It’s certainly interesting, but if it’s real or not is another question. The console pictured could be absolutely anything from an external HDD to a freeview box with a built in DVD player, so it should be taken with a few grains of salt. No mention of this new revolutionary controller either, so we’ll just have to eagerly await the Nintendo conference at E3 this June.

Here’s the image:
 
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jeff_rigby said:
Do you have any information that conflicts with this?

http://gamespundit.com/1124/wii-2-sdk-image-leaked
The controller that goes along with that series of images doesn't fit with 01net's description at all. Then there's the wrong font used in the logos and the fact any number of people could knock up a render and take a photo of it on a projector. Something is on its way, but that ain't it.
 

jeff_rigby

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Graphics Horse said:
The controller that goes along with that series of images doesn't fit with 01net's description at all. Then there's the wrong font used in the logos and the fact any number of people could knock up a render and take a photo of it on a projector. Something is on its way, but that ain't it.
In the linked article: http://gamespundit.com/1124/wii-2-sdk-image-leaked, there is a picture of a Wii and controller and what is claimed to be a Wii2.

And yes, anything can be faked. Your other references to fonts and "series of images" I don't understand, there is only one picture of what is claimed to be a Wii2. Is there another site with more pictures?
 
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jeff_rigby said:
In the linked article: http://gamespundit.com/1124/wii-2-sdk-image-leaked, there is a picture of a Wii and controller and what is claimed to be a Wii2.

And yes, anything can be faked. Your other references to fonts and "series of images" I don't understand, there is only one picture of what is claimed to be a Wii2. Is there another site with more pictures?
This post. The thread has been locked.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=27317448&postcount=1320
 

jeff_rigby

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Graphics Horse said:
Thin either way. The picture in your cite appears to be a mockup not a finished release. As such the logo might not have been generated. In my cite, it's a full color finished picture with the logo in the bottom right FINISHED with circle drawn around it.

We just got an example of how wrong the press can be (no checking sources). androvsky posted information that the webkit port could be Chrome (Chromeclient) and that was jumped on by a EU site even though the next post gave 4 confirmable facts that proved it wasn't Chrome. Others quoted the EU site without checking (the Neogaf thread was accurately cited). Really sloppy!

So, the reason the thread was locked? Edit: Just checked, it wasn't locked just got corrupted.