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Sony open up M2 SSD port to beta testers of system software

IntentionalPun

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Like I said, it looks like what they are looking for is read speed and not write speed. And welp, I hope that benchmark is not gonna lock out slightly slower SSDs if they don't match 5.5GB/s. Lmao
The FAQ just says the speed is recommended,.

So probably no lockouts.

Someone should throw a 2.5GB/second drive in and test Ratchet.

My guess is, the game will work just fine. (I'm not a total SSD naysayer, I think they are great, and Sony's is super great.. just have my doubts Ratchet is really pushing the SSD that far)
 
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Darklor01

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Found a video of a user testing the M2 slot. Interestingly it shows you the current read speed of your drive when you are formating. You cannot use the M2 for videos and save files though.

I love how at the 40 second mark there's a notification while they're using the PS5 that it turned off to save power. Seems stable.
 

dotnotbot

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Like I said, it looks like what they are looking for is read speed and not write speed. And welp, I hope that benchmark is not gonna lock out slightly slower SSDs if they don't match 5.5GB/s. Lmao

I believe it's not gonna lock out anything, just give you a warning it may perform too slow. 5.5 is recommended, not required.
 
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SlimySnake

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Found a video of a user testing the M2 slot. Interestingly it shows you the current read speed of your drive when you are formating. You cannot use the M2 for videos and save files though.

Looks like he had a 5.6 gbps ssd and it ran ratchet or at least it allowed ratchet to boot up.

I would like to see slower ssds in the 2.4 gbps range try and run Ratchet. It would answer a lot of questions.
 

Gamerguy84

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Not to flame console wars here but then again this is a PS thread about this topic.

The PS solution is far superior than the xbox solution. Faster, easy, cheaper. Not to mention it's internal so less clutter or risk of breaking an external port.

Also I've been a beta tester. Once it's released in beta it's more than likely going to work and will be out publicly soon.
 

Mr Moose

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I love how at the 40 second mark there's a notification while they're using the PS5 that it turned off to save power. Seems stable.
That means the last time they had their PS5 on it turned off/on standby (it's on a timer) to save power.
Maybe they let the update run and left it.
 

Tripolygon

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I believe it's not gonna lock out anything, just give you a warning it may perform too slow. 5.5 is recommended, not required.
Thats what I think too. I don't mind putting up with slightly slower load time, I just wanna be able to install a 4GB/s SSD that are very cheap now.
 
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scydrex

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This freedom hasn't shown savings, nor an ease of use advantage. It also still doesn't work yet. Consoles were supposed to be easy. I'm pretty sure the PS Vita solution worked from day one.

SSD prices will go down. Did you know a 120-128gb SSD in the past was $100 or more? State of the art SSD and you are talking about saving right now... comparing state of the art SSD vs the old gen SSD of the Xbox which a similar ssd cost $120. Stop dude...
 
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SlimySnake

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Tom Warren tested a 4.9 GBps ssd and it worked just fine.

We’ll need to test a variety of drives with the PS5, but right now Sony requires at least a PCIe Gen4 SSD, with a minimum capacity of 250GB. Sony is also recommending a drive capable of 5,500MB/s, but slower Gen4 drives may still be supported.

I’ve tested Corsair’s Force MP600 (2TB) with the PS5, which has lower read speeds (4,950MB/s) than Sony recommends, and it’s very easy to get it all up and running in less than two minutes. Here’s how it all works:

So I guess even Ratchet isnt utilizing the ssd to its max. Would love for DF to try this with even lower speeds.

Not looking good for Cerny at the moment.
 
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Tripolygon

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This freedom hasn't shown savings, nor an ease of use advantage. It also still doesn't work yet. Consoles were supposed to be easy. I'm pretty sure the PS Vita solution worked from day one.
It has. PNY CS3040 1TB SSD 5.6GB/s is $159, similar read speed to what was shown in that video.

 
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Console warring.
"sizes for cooling structures (like heatsinks) vary greatly."

I can see some people purchasing cheaper SSDs with smaller or no heatsinks at all, installing them on their PS5, and then wondering why their games are crashing once the console heats up. PS5 owners are going to spend hundreds of dollars to be guinea pigs because Sony couldn't bother to plan accordingly with manufacturers.

 
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Speedwagon

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SSD prices will go down. Did you know a 120-128gb SSD in the past was $100 or more? State of the art SSD and you are talking about saving right now... comparing state of the art SSD vs the old gen SSD of the Xbox which a similar ssd cost $120. Stop dude...
I think my first SSD was a 2.5" laptop drive with 120GB for $200...
 
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SlimySnake

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The slowest pcie4x4 I can find is 3.5gb/s.
Isnt the XSX ssd also PCIE4? or is it just PCIE 3?

I would like to see DF test the 3.5 GBps ssd and see if it can run Ratchet. No minimum read/write requirements from Sony suggests minimum PCIE 4.0 speeds is the minimum.
 

Darklor01

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That means the last time they had their PS5 on it turned off/on standby (it's on a timer) to save power.
Maybe they let the update run and left it.
Ohhhh, maybe that's it. I have that stuff turned off on my PS5 so I've never really seen that happen while I'm using it. I read that as a bug where the system beta software is saying it just turned off the system to save power while using it... but.. then.. that wouldn't make sense now that I think about it.
 
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dotnotbot

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"sizes for cooling structures (like heatsinks) vary greatly."

I can see some people purchasing cheaper SSDs with smaller or no heatsinks at all, installing them on their PS5, and then wondering why their games are crashing once the console heats up. PS5 owners are going to spend hundreds of dollars to be guinea pigs because Sony couldn't bother to plan accordingly with manufacturers.


Salty indeed. SSD isn't going to make your PS5 overheat, At worst, some SSDs may throttle and that's it.
 
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SlimySnake

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"sizes for cooling structures (like heatsinks) vary greatly."

I can see some people purchasing cheaper SSDs with smaller or no heatsinks at all, installing them on their PS5, and then wondering why their games are crashing once the console heats up. PS5 owners are going to spend hundreds of dollars to be guinea pigs because Sony couldn't bother to plan accordingly with manufacturers.

This thing is still in beta. For all we know, sony will have a list of compatible SSDs once they go live with this firmware.

I do agree that Sony should probably have worked with manufacturers to have some PS5 branded SSDs like Xbox did with Samsung.
 

MaKTaiL

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"sizes for cooling structures (like heatsinks) vary greatly."

I can see some people purchasing cheaper SSDs with smaller or no heatsinks at all, installing them on their PS5, and then wondering why their games are crashing once the console heats up. PS5 owners are going to spend hundreds of dollars to be guinea pigs because Sony couldn't bother to plan accordingly with manufacturers.

Console will not heat because of the M2 SSD, lol.
 
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Topher

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"sizes for cooling structures (like heatsinks) vary greatly."

I can see some people purchasing cheaper SSDs with smaller or no heatsinks at all, installing them on their PS5, and then wondering why their games are crashing once the console heats up. PS5 owners are going to spend hundreds of dollars to be guinea pigs because Sony couldn't bother to plan accordingly with manufacturers.

Season 10 Story GIF by Curb Your Enthusiasm
 

IntentionalPun

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Salty indeed. SSD isn't going to make your PS5 overheat, At worst, some SSDs may throttle and that's it.
They get really hot, and the SSD is adding heat near the intake.

It could in fact contribute to a PS5 overheating, and will certainly cause fans to need to do more work.. same as if ambient room temperature is higher. (all electronics devices can overheat, including PS5.)
 

reksveks

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Isnt the XSX ssd also PCIE4? or is it just PCIE 3?

I would like to see DF test the 3.5 GBps ssd and see if it can run Ratchet. No minimum read/write requirements from Sony suggests minimum PCIE 4.0 speeds is the minimum.

XSX is pcie4x2 but yeah, that test would be interesting. I might jump into their discord and ask.
 

IntentionalPun

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Isnt the XSX ssd also PCIE4? or is it just PCIE 3?

I would like to see DF test the 3.5 GBps ssd and see if it can run Ratchet. No minimum read/write requirements from Sony suggests minimum PCIE 4.0 speeds is the minimum.
They don't even mention PCIE 4. (thanks for the correction)

And the XSX interface is PCIE 4.0, but IIRC the drive itself is 3.0.
 
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Stooky

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I think we are starting to see why MS went the proprietary route. Doing it that way guaranteed compatibility and ease of use, things consoles are known for. It also was a working solution from day one. Looking at the prices for the NVME drives you really aren't getting the major savings the 'open' solution promised either. I hope that the differences in the drive type won't affect game performance but I'm certain there will be some variances. I suppose if the MS drive never drops in price or goes up in price while these drop we can at least get a price advantage at some point in time. I guess now the only real question is when will all PS5 owners be able to use the expansion bay. Maybe next month or the next.
Lol Sony has being allowing people to install their own hard drives since PS3. It will be an easy install. Im sure they will get it right.
 

IntentionalPun

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Who doesn't mention PCIE 4? Sony does.

Interface: PCIe Gen4 x4 M.2 NVMe SSD

XSX is PCIe Gen4 x2.
Sorry you are right on both accounts.

I ctr-F'd the Sony page for SSD and it came back negative on "PCIE" because it was hidden by the + sign expansion dealio.
 
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danstar

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Tom Warren tested a 4.9 GBps ssd and it worked just fine.



So I guess even Ratchet isnt utilizing the ssd to its max. Would love for DF to try this with even lower speeds.

Not looking good for Cerny at the moment.
I think insomniac admitted that they weren't able to take full advantage of the ssd for Ratchet so a slower a ssd should work and it wouldn't really be a suprise.
 
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splattered

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This sounds messy af.... sorry peeps i am definitely waiting for a console revision at this point. Not gonna risk burning up a mythical unicorn barely able to be purchased in stores just for a half baked expandable storage solution. GTFO Sony.
 
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sinnergy

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I think insomniac admitted that they weren't able to take full advantage of the ssd for Ratchet so a slower a ssd should work and it wouldn't really be a suprise.
But Sony fans think , it’s the magic of streaming .. but levels load from RAM .. just saying
 
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dotnotbot

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This sounds messy af.... sorry peeps i am definitely waiting for a console revision at this point. Not gonna risk burning up a mythical unicorn barely able to be purchased in stores just for a half baked expandable storage solution. GTFO Sony.

Storage solution will be exactly the same in the upcoming revisions, I can bet everything on that. There's nothing half-baked about it.
 
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SlimySnake

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I think insomniac admitted that they weren't able to take full advantage of the ssd for Ratchet so a slower a ssd should work and it wouldn't really be a suprise.
Sure, but Sony isnt exactly limiting these SSDs based on read speeds. So any game in the future probably wont be able to take advantage of the full speeds because there are no minimum read speeds.

Insomniac once said that even though every PS4 shipped with a 50 MBps HDD, they couldnt code the speed of Spiderman's traversal around 50 MBps. Since the PS4 HDD could be replaced with slower 20 MBps ones, they had to use that as the baseline.

Would hate to see it happen here after everything Cerny said about the SSD. I guess we will find out when DF and NX gamer start testing games with slower SSDs.
 

sinnergy

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I bet only real loading will make the difference.. like RES 8. In game it’s all the same .
 

MaKTaiL

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I bet only real loading will make the difference.. like RES 8. In game it’s all the same .
Not when gameplay is built around the speed of the SSD. The real test will be with Ratchet and Clank and Returnal which both use instant level travel.
 

Tripolygon

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Sure, but Sony isnt exactly limiting these SSDs based on read speeds. So any game in the future probably wont be able to take advantage of the full speeds because there are no minimum read speeds.

Insomniac once said that even though every PS4 shipped with a 50 MBps HDD, they couldnt code the speed of Spiderman's traversal around 50 MBps. Since the PS4 HDD could be replaced with slower 20 MBps ones, they had to use that as the baseline.

Would hate to see it happen here after everything Cerny said about the SSD. I guess we will find out when DF and NX gamer start testing games with slower SSDs.
There is a minimum. It was stated by Mark Cerny and it is in this document. 5.5GB/s is the recommended minimum.
 

IntentionalPun

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Sure, but Sony isnt exactly limiting these SSDs based on read speeds. So any game in the future probably wont be able to take advantage of the full speeds because there are no minimum read speeds.

Insomniac once said that even though every PS4 shipped with a 50 MBps HDD, they couldnt code the speed of Spiderman's traversal around 50 MBps. Since the PS4 HDD could be replaced with slower 20 MBps ones, they had to use that as the baseline.

Would hate to see it happen here after everything Cerny said about the SSD. I guess we will find out when DF and NX gamer start testing games with slower SSDs.
I seriously doubt w/ the IO complex, any game will ever really push w/ compression what the effective rate of even a 3.5GB/second SSD could do... or ever would want or need to.
 
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RoadHazard

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I'm surprised they're only RECOMMENDING > 5.5GB/s, and also that that's the read speed they recommend, given what Cerny was saying. I guess you'll get stuttering if your drive is too slow? Maybe even crashes in games that really depend on a certain throughput, although hopefully the storage APIs are better implemented than that.
 
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SlimySnake

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There is a minimum. It was stated by Mark Cerny and it is in this document. 5.5GB/s is the recommended minimum.
Tom Warren was able to run tests on a 4.9 GBps SSD.

We’ll need to test a variety of drives with the PS5, but right now Sony requires at least a PCIe Gen4 SSD, with a minimum capacity of 250GB. Sony is also recommending a drive capable of 5,500MB/s, but slower Gen4 drives may still be supported.

I’ve tested Corsair’s Force MP600 (2TB) with the PS5, which has lower read speeds (4,950MB/s) than Sony recommends, and it’s very easy to get it all up and running in less than two minutes. Here’s how it all works:
 

RoadHazard

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They aren't. This was bs from the start. Games will be developed against sustained speed, not peak. I called this out last year. Optimal file transfer size plays a role, and heat plays a role in how well these ssds performs.

We have little proof that the max speed sony listed is even sustainable in a game and thus far, there has been a minimal difference in load speeds compared to XSX. All the talk of double speed never materialized. Even in the ps5 unreal demo it never approached peak ssd speed.

Sony saying "recommend speed" pretty much confirms it imo. You pay extra for speed with Nvme drives on pc. Same will occur here.

I have 2 TB in my xbox and its over half full of games. Extra space is needed on all consoles imo.

Games made specifically for the PS5 load incredibly fast though? Like 2 seconds fast. Xbox has no examples of anything similar.
 

NickFire

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"sizes for cooling structures (like heatsinks) vary greatly."

I can see some people purchasing cheaper SSDs with smaller or no heatsinks at all, installing them on their PS5, and then wondering why their games are crashing once the console heats up. PS5 owners are going to spend hundreds of dollars to be guinea pigs because Sony couldn't bother to plan accordingly with manufacturers.

You are essentially arguing that Sony is bad for letting customers pay off the shelf prices for faster storage, and MS is good for charging propriety (inflated) prices for slower storage.
 

ReBurn

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So overpriced proprietary extensions for PS Vita were bad, now when Sony gives you freedom it's also bad?
Let's be real about it. The proprietary card for Series X is $220 for 1TB. An SSD at Sony recommended spec at current prices with a heat sink is between $210 and $250 for 1 TB depending on how you make your choices. We aren't talking the difference between micro SD and proprietary Sony memory cards. These prices are comparable.
 

SlimeGooGoo

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And once again corporations expect users to do the testing for free.

Mind you, this is not about Sony in particular, since Microsoft does this with their "Windows Insiders" program.
It's frustrating that the consumer has to do the corporation's job for something they've already paid.

On the other hand, at least Xbox has something that is already available and works as intended.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

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Let's be real about it. The proprietary card for Series X is $220 for 1TB. An SSD at Sony recommended spec at current prices with a heat sink is between $210 and $250 for 1 TB depending on how you make your choices. We aren't talking the difference between micro SD and proprietary Sony memory cards. These prices are comparable.
Considering the speed is what about half for the Xbox I say its over priced.

The only thing the Xbox SSD has going for it is being able to quickly move it from one machine to another which I have done with it more than once.
 

M1chl

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The FAQ just says the speed is recommended,.

So probably no lockouts.

Someone should throw a 2.5GB/second drive in and test Ratchet.

My guess is, the game will work just fine. (I'm not a total SSD naysayer, I think they are great, and Sony's is super great.. just have my doubts Ratchet is really pushing the SSD that far)
I think that 2.4GB/s as a average read is really big data-bandwidth . I think main advantage is much more that decompressing ASIC, which Sony implemented. Like I stated more than half a year ago, MS is not going to come close in terms of compression/decompression to Sony. And everything seems to come to fruition, lower game sizes and faster load times in gen9 only games. And I went with XSX.

However I find impressive still, that I/O in something like a Flight Sim is working fine. I mean that type of I/O which comes from the outside and it's on the spot translated to game world. But that's OT, my point is that this gen we have all in all impressive I/O solutions
 
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"sizes for cooling structures (like heatsinks) vary greatly."

I can see some people purchasing cheaper SSDs with smaller or no heatsinks at all, installing them on their PS5, and then wondering why their games are crashing once the console heats up. PS5 owners are going to spend hundreds of dollars to be guinea pigs because Sony couldn't bother to plan accordingly with manufacturers.


So back with the rumors of the PS5 setting people's houses on fire?
 

Tripolygon

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Tom Warren was able to run tests on a 4.9 GBps SSD.
What you put in your own console is your business. Every PS5 console comes with a 825GB 5.5GB/s SSD soldered to the board. That is what developers develop against. What they have done at least is limit the expansion port to gen4 PCIe SSD. It is not the same situation as PS4 where there is only one internal storage. PS5 has 2.