Support NeoGAF

[onQ123]

Or, work on games that sell in their millions at $60 a pop first.

They already do that & they are not the type of games they would want to put on PS Now.

 

[jshackles]

Last I checked, Netflix and HBO were not selling subscriptions for $1.

No, but they give away your first month free. Which is cheaper than $1. You know, so they can build their brand / reputation and let customers find out how well the technology works. This is just like Microsoft is doing. When I bought an LG TV a couple of years ago - it came with a whole YEAR of free Netflix. It's all about hooking customers into the subscription service.

The overwhelming majority of Game Pass subscribers got a nearly-free month of service followed by a $9.99 recurring monthly bill.

 

[Fake]

Microsoft should doing that too IMO. Just not releasing Gears/Forza day one in Game Pass. Maybe after one month.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Exclusives free on Day 1 wouldn't do SONY good at all.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Yeeeeeeah. Sony ain't gonna win the sub-service war actually VALUING their property.

I think their old stuff, their average offerings, etc. is at least as good as what MS has to offer on their best day.

Also, if I am not mistaken, PS now has a wider selection of titles that you can actually play at any given time, not only Sony titles, nor limited to PS4.

So do what you will, if I had to take one if would probably be PSNow over whatever is the name of MS's equivalent (Stadia, etc. are not part of the equation at the moment).

You say that game sub services (AKA Game Pass) will result in the diminishing quality of product, due to poor returns on investment. However, Microsoft is not just acquiring studios, but is increasing their funding to allow the hiring of fresh new talent for team expansion and budget increases so the scope of their games can grow and improve to meet their vision.

Believe me, if there is less money coming in, there will be less money spent to take the risk of a big release, or even a lesser one. Most businesses or business people don't just spend money on their "vision" of there is no payoff worth the investment - if you can invest 1 dollar here and make 2 out of it, why would you invest that dollar in something that can at best break even? - and if some are likely to do it it's certainly not Microsoft (I think Nintendo are the only ones in the console manufacturers who could claim to do this).

Although I love GamePass, it does sort of devalue the games that debut on it. And of course opinions are subjective, but Microsoft hasn’t had a great generation for “exclusives” — if you can even call them that since they’re all on PC — while Sony’s studios make some of the best games anywhere, period.

Let's say you can sell 15 million copies of a game for 60$ each. Then, later move them to "rental" and have people paying 10-20$/month for a service that includes many many games, as well as those very valuable stand out games that people get your system for, you may win twice (some members of the service that really like those games may put out just to play the new game early - if there is enough buzz around it).

On the other hand, if your exclusives are very much at risk of flopping, or not selling that much up front, you should definitely use them as incentives to build up the user base on your recurring payment service, it will grant you some lucrative baseline income. It may just let you reach a critical mass, so that you will have a critical mass of users when you try to enroll other publishers on such service.

The caveat being that: 1 the games MS is offering are good, but hardly anything to write home about. 2: I bet most of the gamepass users are on that 1$ a month or some kind of free trial that you get when you buy a video card or something will they keep paying once this is over?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

No, but they give away your first month free. Which is cheaper than $1. You know, so they can build their brand / reputation and let customers find out how well the technology works. This is just like Microsoft is doing. When I bought an LG TV a couple of years ago - it came with a whole YEAR of free Netflix. It's all about hooking customers into the subscription service.

HBO and Netflix often do give first time customers the first month free, but that isn't remotely the same as being able to get up to 2 years of it for $1 piggybacking off of another subscription service they were already a part of.

The overwhelming majority of Game Pass subscribers got a nearly-free month of service followed by a $9.99 recurring monthly bill.

Do you have actual data that shows this? I'd happily wager that the vast majority of the people on the service are because of the $1 buy-in and were already live members.

 

[jshackles]

Do you have actual data that shows this? I'd happily wager that the vast majority of the people on the service are because of the $1 buy-in and were already live members.

Despite what you might think about the state of gaming as seen through the lens of an enthusiast, I would also happily wager that the vast majority of people on the service didn't decide to plunk down hundreds of dollars to pre-pay their Gold subscription before converting it (a one time offer per customer) to Ultimate. Even if they did, it means these customers have already pre-paid for Xbox Live Gold ($60 a year, or $9.99 a month) and paid to convert their existing subscription to Game Pass Ultimate (not just regular Game Pass or PC Game Pass because those aren't eligible) for $14.99 per month. I've seen people on NeoGAF argue that "well people are just making new accounts every month and getting that $1 Game Pass deal over and over again" which is also bullshit for a myriad of reasons - such as accounts getting flagged for fraud if you re-use credit card info. The reality is that people aren't jumping through this many hoops or this much hassle to save a few dollars a month. Well, I'm sure some are - but the majority of regular, sane people are not.

Ya'll out here acting like Microsoft is giving away years of Game Pass to literally anyone for $1. In reality, the best deal you can get would be to convert / upgrade a pre-paid Gold sub (which costs money) to Game Pass Ultimate for $1. So you can get $180 worth of subscription services ($60 annual Gold, $120 annual Game Pass) for $61. An excellent deal, to be sure, but once that one time deal is over and done you now have a $15/month subscription. Sure you can do this (one time!) to convert up to 36 months but again most regular people aren't paying nearly $200 to Microsoft just because they know it's going to save them more money in the long run. It's also, you know, hundreds of dollars in Microsoft's pockets upfront. This is going to be an extremely niche edge case scenario.

How many people do you think are savvy enough to know how to convert their subscription to maximize it's value the most? Loads of people I've personally talked to (not on NeoGAF and are just typical dude-bro Call of Duty crowd) are like "oh yeah, I got that Game Pass upgrade deal" but then they explain that they're on the month-to-month plan and they got their first month for $1 and now pay $14.99 a month instead of $9.99 for XBLGold. They say it's a great deal because it's cheaper than paying $9.99 a month for each. Obviously I don't have any "actual data" (even if I did, I'm sure Microsoft wouldn't want me blabbing their sales data publicly) so all I have to go on is my own personal dealings with people, word of mouth, and a pretty intimate understanding of how these subscription services work and how human psychology plays a massive role in this purchase process.

 

[thelastword]

In a thread full of ignorant posts, this ranks near the top.

Not only that, Netflix had a very different business model before they became what they are today. Netflix started out as DVD rental service, then evolved into streaming by buying up the rights to old TV shows, movies etc. Stuff which many studios assumed had little audience. Once the studios realized that there was a demand for their older content, they gradually restricted what they licensed out to Netflix. As such Netflix started to develop their own content to keep people in their service.

Absolutely......and this mirrors with PSNOW......They were first in the console space for years and were racking in profits at $19.99 a month.......Now that competition is about to enter, you make adjustments to meet the growing tide......It's how business is done...

I've seen some people say, hey MS is offering downloadable games on PS4 via PSNOW only because of Gamepass as an example......Well they won't sit idle whilst MS offers the feature, downloadable games to your console is not a new feature for PS4 either way, just that it never made sense since the service was only a streaming service......So just like Netflix, PSNOW is going to evolve to meet many demands and take streaming games head on vs the big guys, however, at this point no one has as much experience in streaming games as Sony, they have the Gaikai guys too......If there's more pie to be made, you can guarantee yourself they are already planning for it, when streaming becomes more viable on a much larger revenue bedding.......In the meantime, they remain the only service making bank in streaming atm....

All Sony has to do is watch how Stadia and Xcloud is received come November and see how these services compare to theirs, there's no reason to budge if your competion is not in sight yet......Stay at the inn and enjoy delights for now......Eat some grapes, sip some wine, get your Kratos on...

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Despite what you might think about the state of gaming as seen through the lens of an enthusiast, I would also happily wager that the vast majority of people on the service didn't decide to plunk down hundreds of dollars to pre-pay their Gold subscription before converting it (a one time offer per customer) to Ultimate. Even if they did, it means these customers have already pre-paid for Xbox Live Gold ($60 a year, or $9.99 a month) and paid to convert their existing subscription to Game Pass Ultimate (not just regular Game Pass or PC Game Pass because those aren't eligible) for $14.99 per month. I've seen people on NeoGAF argue that "well people are just making new accounts every month and getting that $1 Game Pass deal over and over again" which is also bullshit for a myriad of reasons - such as accounts getting flagged for fraud if you re-use credit card info. The reality is that people aren't jumping through this many hoops or this much hassle to save a few dollars a month. Well, I'm sure some are - but the majority of regular, sane people are not.

Ya'll out here acting like Microsoft is giving away years of Game Pass to literally anyone for $1. In reality, the best deal you can get would be to convert / upgrade a pre-paid Gold sub (which costs money) to Game Pass Ultimate for $1. So you can get $180 worth of subscription services ($60 annual Gold, $120 annual Game Pass) for $61. An excellent deal, to be sure, but once that one time deal is over and done you now have a $15/month subscription. Sure you can do this (one time!) to convert up to 36 months but again most regular people aren't paying nearly $200 to Microsoft just because they know it's going to save them more money in the long run. It's also, you know, hundreds of dollars in Microsoft's pockets upfront. This is going to be an extremely niche edge case scenario.

How many people do you think are savvy enough to know how to convert their subscription to maximize it's value the most? Loads of people I've personally talked to (not on NeoGAF and are just typical dude-bro Call of Duty crowd) are like "oh yeah, I got that Game Pass upgrade deal" but then they explain that they're on the month-to-month plan and they got their first month for $1 and now pay $14.99 a month instead of $9.99 for XBLGold. They say it's a great deal because it's cheaper than paying $9.99 a month for each. Obviously I don't have any "actual data" (even if I did, I'm sure Microsoft wouldn't want me blabbing their sales data publicly) so all I have to go on is my own personal dealings with people, word of mouth, and a pretty intimate understanding of how these subscription services work and how human psychology plays a massive role in this purchase process.

In otherwords, you have no data. No nothing.

Thanks for playing.

 

[jshackles]

In otherwords, you have no data. No nothing.

Thanks for playing.

I've seen less stubborn religious fanaticism in the face of a well reasoned argument. But you do you, bud.

 

[phil_t98]

I think the censorship policy has been discussed quite a bit, we shall see how they approach things there for PS5...…...As an adult, I agree that your games should not be censored, but the reality is many kids gets access to these games, lots of kids use consoles and the backlash from parents and pure establishments are too great.......Like anything else business need to adhere to ethical leanings as well.....

So maybe there needs to be a better approach as to what games are accessible to minors, but I dont think we should make this thread all about this....I was asking this very question in one of those threads, how do we solve this issue.....Kids playing games just for nudity, being exposed to extreme violence etc...Tbh, most of us grew up accessing our father's porn stache, playing games like soldier of fortune and the like, it didn't affect us as much...….The difference is we went outdoors, we played outdoors too, so we had lots of interaction, the kids these days are a much more volatile bunch...…..They're easily influenced and become shut-ins due to social media, I mean kids are committing suicide because they didn't get enough likes on social media, every subject is more sensitive now, because there are lots of groups harassing these companies with lawsuits etc......surely tell me you at least understand the climate...….It's just a way to protect yourself against all this pressure and perhaps even monetary payouts...…. Perhaps we should lobby a bit more for AO games, but the hypocritical part is all the advocates of censorship would not be want to be seen buying an AO game, even as an adult.....

There's a bigger conversation to be had on the subject, yet I don't think we should do it here...There has been so many threads about it already...….I think in the end, good-games-delivery trumps all...

Complete horse shit, there is a rating on games so Sony has no need to censor anything. The games rating works. Should GTA be censored because kids might play it?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I've seen less stubborn religious fanaticism in the face of a well reasoned argument. But you do you, bud.

You started off by making the quote

The overwhelming majority of Game Pass subscribers got a nearly-free month of service followed by a $9.99 recurring monthly bill.

I simply asked for data. You provided none.

 

[phil_t98]

It's a sub service you can no longer wait on 3-5 years to develop a big game just to put it on gamepass day one......There's no logic and financial sense there, especially if you cant sell a sub at the $15 per month you're asking...MS themselves have said that they want their devs to churn out new gamepass content every 3 months...…...It's the only way the model can work, for their first parties....

The point is, with such a low dev cycle, quality will and funding of said games will go down massively...…..Just be aware that you had games like Crackdown 3, SOD2, SOT which had years of development and look how they turned out, just imagine if you give these devs 3 months....

Didn’t days gone have a long development? Thing with games is people like different things and if you don’t like Days gone somebody else will same with crackdown. Your forgetting to mention Forza Horizon 4 which is the best driving game this gen

 

[jshackles]

I simply asked for data. You provided none.

Look dude, nobody is going to have access to that information. If they do, they won't be allowed to disclose that information publicly. Which means either you or I could be way off base in either direction. If you want to consider that to mean "everyone got 3 years of game pass for $1" then be my guest.

What I'm arguing is that if you understand and have insights into marketing subscription services, the psychology of consumer choice, and a firm understanding of general human laziness you'll understand that given a large enough sample size (millions) the "overwhelming majority" of Game Pass subscribers aren't people who paid Microsoft a large up-front sum to pre-pay for three years of a service contract for a relatively unknown and untested consumer subscription product. I'm saying you don't need hard evidence to back up this claim when you can come to the conclusion on your own if you have the right tools and information.

Disney did the same thing during D23 this year with a special offer for Disney+. For a limited time, you could get three years of Disney+ for $141, or $3.92 per month. Everyone else pays $7 a month, or $70 per year. Do you think Disney is going to lose money on the customers that took advantage of that offer? Are you going to claim that the "overwhelming majority" of Disney+ subscribers are paying less than $4 a month when it launches as a $7 subscription? Are you going to claim that Disney+ might be an unprofitable venture because of it? Turns out, most sane and rational (ie lazy) people are just going to sign up for a $7 recurring monthly charge after getting a free 7 day trial.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Complete horse shit, there is a rating on games so Sony has no need to censor anything. The games rating works. Should GTA be censored because kids might play it?

Ya.

And might as well sanitize movies too because anyone can watch an R-rated movie at home too.

The bigger issue isn't really censorship, but the fact Sony reinforces censorship on third party games, yet for first party games go ape shit on violence and sex and the next LoU game even has teenage lesbo scenes. But no problem there!

 

[Afro Republican]

Sony has done this shit 7 times this gen, and then within 6 months to 18 months they'll flip flop and do it. They've done this over and over again and it's always a jab at some competitor, usually Microsoft, and the reaction is the same every time.

If you don't want to do it say you aren't doing so at this time and nobody will be mad. No need for drama, you sold your 100+ million consoles, what are you doing?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Sony has done this shit 7 times this gen, and then within 6 months to 18 months they'll flip flop and do it. They've done this over and over again and it's always a jab at some competitor, usually Microsoft, and the reaction is the same every time.

If you don't want to do it say you aren't doing so at this time and nobody will be mad. No need for drama, you sold your 100+ million consoles, what are you doing?

What did I just read?

 

[vkbest]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

yeah right, they're so special, I love all the different ways to hide in a bush in all those special 3rd person shooter-stealth games with some dumbed down climbing mechanics thrown in there...
and all the different special ways to slowly walk next to or behind an NPC while all your controls, except for walking, get taken from you...

so special! I can't wait for The Last of BushHidingWalkingSlowlyImmersionBreak 2!

Are you a kid?

 

[FranXico]

What did I just read?

Don't bother.

 

[iNvid02]

Reckon it's a dumb move allowing Microsoft to gain such a huge lead in subscription style gaming but more power to them

 

[Kagey K]

Reckon it's a dumb move allowing Microsoft to gain such a huge lead in subscription style gaming but more power to them

It doesn’t matter in the long run, even if a Xcloud has them making money hand over fist, people will be like “but how many consoles did they sell?”
Sales are always important to them until something doesn’t sell well, and then it’s “It was never expected to sell but it adds to the prestige”

 

[mejin]

Reckon it's a dumb move allowing Microsoft to gain such a huge lead in subscription style gaming but more power to them

The gap is not as wide as you think.

 

[Ingeniero]

I'm with Sony on this one.
Business 101

 

[iNvid02]

The gap is not as wide as you think.

last i checked its 700k for ps now vs an estimate of just under 10 million for gamepass. lol

 

[PhilipDoesMatter]

I would do the same if I were Sony.

 

[mejin]

last i checked its 700k for ps now vs an estimate of just under 10 million for gamepass. lol

Now is updated at 1M. And numbers from gamepass are a myth just like hardware numbers. Beware false propaganda specially anything from MS.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Now is updated at 1M. And numbers from gamepass are a myth just like hardware numbers. Beware false propaganda specially anything from MS.

Yeah, ever since MS stopped talking about MAU, there was no concrete numbers on Gamepass. At least Sony is honest about PSNow numbers.

 

[JLB]

In a thread full of ignorant posts, this ranks near the top.

Not only that, Netflix had a very different business model before they became what they are today. Netflix started out as DVD rental service, then evolved into streaming by buying up the rights to old TV shows, movies etc. Stuff which many studios assumed had little audience. Once the studios realized that there was a demand for their older content, they gradually restricted what they licensed out to Netflix. As such Netflix started to develop their own content to keep people in their service.

Yeah, Netflix actually sold subscriptions for usd 1 for many years during the beginning. You know, like Gamepass.

 

[JLB]

Last I checked, Netflix and HBO were not selling subscriptions for $1.

I guess you didnt know about Netflix a couple of years ago, when it was doing the exact same thing to growth its user base .

 

[scydrex]

Which is why I won't sub to PS Now.

I only brought 1 year 2014-2015 after that no thanks.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Yeah, Netflix actually sold subscriptions for usd 1 for many years during the beginning. You know, like Gamepass.

I guess you didnt know about Netflix a couple of years ago, when it was doing the exact same thing to growth its user base .

When was this? Do you have a link? How long was it being offered?

Also, one major difference between Netflix and Gamepass is the fact that Netflix was available on a far greater selection of devices than Gamepass is. Gamepass is pretty much limited to Xbox systems, while Netflix could be found on almost any smart TV or even the web.

 

[JLB]

When was this? Do you have a link? How long was it being offered?

Also, one major difference between Netflix and Gamepass is the fact that Netflix was available on a far greater selection of devices than Gamepass is. Gamepass is pretty much limited to Xbox systems, while Netflix could be found on almost any smart TV or even the web.

Google is your friend.
And also, youre crazy if you think that most gp subscribrers are paying usd 1.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Google is your friend.
And also, youre crazy if you think that most gp subscribrers are paying usd 1.

I did google and saw nothing about a $1 subscription being offered.

Netflix $1 trial - Google Search

www.google.com

 

[Woodchipper]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

yeah right, they're so special, I love all the different ways to hide in a bush in all those special 3rd person shooter-stealth games with some dumbed down climbing mechanics thrown in there...
and all the different special ways to slowly walk next to or behind an NPC while all your controls, except for walking, get taken from you...

so special! I can't wait for The Last of BushHidingWalkingSlowlyImmersionBreak 2!

Come up with something new, will ya? The only similarity between Sony’s exclusives is that they have equally stunning visuals, and most of them are third person... that’s it.

 

[demigod]

last i checked its 700k for ps now vs an estimate of just under 10 million for gamepass. lol

Let me guess, you actually believe 58 million people pay for Live too huh.

 

[FranXico]

I did google and saw nothing about a $1 subscription being offered.

Netflix $1 trial - Google Search

www.google.com

Same here, I do see people selling one month trial accounts for $1 online (which doesn't make sense when the first month is free anyway), but not Netflix themselves.

 

[JLB]

I did google and saw nothing about a $1 subscription being offered.

Netflix $1 trial - Google Search

www.google.com

Keep googling it. Maybe free trial helps.

 

[NeatoB1]

Sony exclusives are great they are special and they're worth full price if you don't want to pay full price for a product just wait for it to go on sale I myself think Sony's new exclusive death stranding is pure hot garbage and probably the worst that they put out in my opinion with that said I'm going to buy this game when it goes on sale or wait for one of my Friends to gift it to me
I'm a firm believer in vote with your wallet and if you don't like something don't purchase it and it will die naturally everyone that's going to buy a PlayStation 5 is not going to buy it because of great streaming services they're going to buy it because the next God of War's going to be there and the next Spider-Man both of those definitely worth full price

 

[mitch1971]

They already do that & they are not the type of games they would want to put on PS Now.

Thats my point. They don't need to make a ton of games for a 50 pound sub a year program when they make $60 games that sell millions anyway. Which will eventually be put on sub service later.

(I'm sure the original reply was in another thread made on the same lines and not this one. I suspect a merge of somekind.)

 

[phil_t98]

Thats my point. They don't need to make a ton of games for a 50 pound sub a year program when they make $60 games that sell millions anyway. Which will eventually be put on sub service later.

(I'm sure the original reply was in another thread made on the same lines and not this one. I suspect a merge of somekind.)

So
How many exclusives do Sony release a year?
Like triple AAA

 

[onQ123]

Thats my point. They don't need to make a ton of games for a 50 pound sub a year program when they make $60 games that sell millions anyway. Which will eventually be put on sub service later.

(I'm sure the original reply was in another thread made on the same lines and not this one. I suspect a merge of somekind.)

Yeah it was merged but what I was saying is that they should also make the type of games that make sense for a service like PS Now.

 

[iNvid02]

Let me guess, you actually believe 58 million people pay for Live too huh.

no but i do believe sony fanboys get butt hurt extremely quickly smh

 

[demigod]

no but i do believe sony fanboys get butt hurt extremely quickly smh

So what was the point in your comparison again? The only one butt hurt I see is you.

 

[Mexen]

OK, boomer.

That's a joke, calm the fuck down, boomer GAF.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

No, but they give away your first month free. Which is cheaper than $1. You know, so they can build their brand / reputation and let customers find out how well the technology works. This is just like Microsoft is doing. When I bought an LG TV a couple of years ago - it came with a whole YEAR of free Netflix. It's all about hooking customers into the subscription service.

The overwhelming majority of Game Pass subscribers got a nearly-free month of service followed by a $9.99 recurring monthly bill.

the 1$ price is there to have a reason to get someone to give their payment information (people complained that they had to give it to Netflix for their free month/s, which makes sense as you are more likely to keep the service if there is no action to take at the end of the trial to keep it).

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

Truth.

 

[phil_t98]

Sony puts out an anti consumer statement and people lap it up. They saying they could put it on PS now but they wont

 

[Horsemama1956]

Sony literally needs every dollar they can squeeze out of their games. Overall the company is half dead. Ms on the other hand can continue to lose money with Xbox and still be a trillion dollar company. The companies aren't comparable at all.

Another PlayStation misstep and that company is fucked(and now Chinese).

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Sony puts out an anti consumer statement and people lap it up. They saying they could put it on PS now but they wont

Anti-consumer. That's funny.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Sony puts out an anti consumer statement and people lap it up. They saying they could put it on PS now but they wont

Oh wow , wtf? MS does not pay me to get an Xbox One X, so anti consumer of them.