• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Sony Principal Graphics Engineer confirms PS5 has custom architecture that is based on RDNA2. (Update: Read OP)

psorcerer

Banned
May 1, 2012
2,479
3,535
1,035
Rosario Leonardi, Principal Graphics Engineer at Sony Interactive Entertainment Europe, had this interesting tweet...


He also confirmed there is no machine learning...

You are confusing actual info with some bullshit.
There is a full GCN support for hw BC.
That's why it's "RDNA1".
 

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
12,286
19,006
995
Does any of this even matter anymore?

We already know what Sony’s games are going to look like for the next 2 years and after Thurs we see what Xbox can do.

Then shortly before or after release we will get the full teardowns of both and they can be fully analyzed.

This seems like irrelevant talking points right now.

If Xbox games look significantly better it might be worth revisiting next week.
 

Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
Oct 24, 2017
4,837
11,230
850
Uk
www.overdose-game.com
I won’t be replying to this rubbish. A lot of strange conspiracy theories going on in this thread. Nobody will be fired, no NDA was broken. It was a PM, the first one sent to me by this guy in fact, that shared common knowledge information. I removed it because it was absolutely in bad taste to post it, not because of an NDA.

Ive actually sent Mod of War Mod of War the proof of it being real, but it hasn’t been mentioned yet I see. I can’t fake that proof either in the way it was sent. That can clear up THAT part of things. Why send it the mods and not public? You guys got all upset because I did it the first time with a pic. That’s why. The guy himself could post it was legit but instead posted in a way that could be interpreted either way, and why do you think that is?

I have no reason to fake something that most people knew. However, will say this. Looking at his other posts, none of which I may add are even related to me (such as the ML one, the gender one and others), it appears he could have been trolling ME with that message.

Either way, as per usual you guys have gone totally off the deep end and invented your own backstories and everything. I’ve taken a lot of flack for this, and quite rightly so for part of it. But trying to get into my social media accounts, spamming my contacts and sending death threats to my wife of all people? Over a piece of plastic? Because some guy on the internet happened to say something most people knew anyway...?

Come on people, grow the fuck up. There is no discord server that in part of, I don’t even use discord, haven’t since earlier in the year and that was to talk to a friend. There is no coordinated Xbox fanboy attack. This is a games console, a piece of plastic. You people need to get a life if this shit is so serious that you’ve kept my wife awake all night and made her panic.

Absolutely disgraceful.

I’ll say this again for those of you hard of hearing: I made a layman’s terms walkthrough of tech. Sony AND MS engineers came in to help, and help they did. We chatted privately as well as publicly. The Sony guy was the first to start with console warrior stuff, on his first post, but on my first reply I told him not to do that as that’s not what the thread was about, and he did stop. He sent me a dm, unprompted, without any reason from me, saying he would check over NDA stuff the next day, but THIS was in reference to whether he could talk about hardware in the PS5 that matches the XSX. He then mentions about RDNA, passing that info over with no effort. DO YOU REALLY THINK HE WOULD HOLD BACK ON INFO DUE TO NDA AND THEN FREELY SAY THIS IF IT WAS THE SAME CONCERN FOR THAT?

No no, it’s much easier to say that I faked it all, or I broke NDA (seriously people pick a side here), or that I’m in a fucking discord Xbox conspiracy server hell bent on taking down playstation.

Mod of war has the proof. That’s all I can do. I won’t be saying anything else on the subject. Feel free to call me a knob for posting that pic. I posted it, then removed it as I instantly didnt feel right about it, not because of its content, but because it was a DM. it could have contained anything, my damn shopping list even, I haven’t done that before and I shouldn’t have done it then. It was the quickest and easiest way to show the RDNA talk. I’ve since apologised to him myself, as well as publicly.

So one last time... feel free to insult a stupid lack of judgement there. But the other stuff? The faking stuff? The discord stuff? The death threats to my wife and the lovey graphic detail of what you will do to my kid when you find her? Just know those have been passed on the the correct people.

Grow up people, just leave my family alone, for fucks sake... it’s not worth it.

TLZ TLZ yes, again. Just so happened the last time this was over... a damn PlayStation. I see a pattern here.
 
Last edited:

Futurematic

Member
Jan 28, 2014
852
172
565
The only thing that interests me is the why of it.

What would be the reason that Sony—roughly twice as important to AMD vs Microsoft—deliberately rejected RDNA 2 improvements that MS embraced?

If this is true I am fascinated about the reasons behind it.
 

sinnergy

Member
Jun 16, 2007
5,509
3,144
1,435
The only thing that interests me is the why of it.

What would be the reason that Sony—roughly twice as important to AMD vs Microsoft—deliberately rejected RDNA 2 improvements that MS embraced?

If this is true I am fascinated about the reasons behind it.
If the rumored 2019 launch are true, if, Sony started much earlier than MS, that could explain it easily.
 

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
12,286
19,006
995
I won’t be replying to this rubbish. A lot of strange conspiracy theories going on in this thread. Nobody will be fired, no NDA was broken. It was a PM, the first one sent to me by this guy in fact, that shared common knowledge information. I removed it because it was absolutely in bad taste to post it, not because of an NDA.

Ive actually sent Mod of War Mod of War the proof of it being real, but it hasn’t been mentioned yet I see. I can’t fake that proof either in the way it was sent. That can clear up THAT part of things. Why send it the mods and not public? You guys got all upset because I did it the first time with a pic. That’s why. The guy himself could post it was legit but instead posted in a way that could be interpreted either way, and why do you think that is?

I have no reason to fake something that most people knew. However, will say this. Looking at his other posts, none of which I may add are even related to me (such as the ML one, the gender one and others), it appears he could have been trolling ME with that message.

Either way, as per usual you guys have gone totally off the deep end and invented your own backstories and everything. I’ve taken a lot of flack for this, and quite rightly so for part of it. But trying to get into my social media accounts, spamming my contacts and sending death threats to my wife of all people? Over a piece of plastic? Because some guy on the internet happened to say something most people knew anyway...?

Come on people, grow the fuck up. There is no discord server that in part of, I don’t even use discord, haven’t since earlier in the year and that was to talk to a friend. There is no coordinated Xbox fanboy attack. This is a games console, a piece of plastic. You people need to get a life of this shit is so serious that you’ve kept my wife awake all night and made her panic.

Absolutely disgraceful.

I’ll say this again for those of you hard of hearing: I made a layman’s terms walkthrough of tech. Sony AND MS engineers came in to help, and help they did. We chatted privately as well as publicly. The Sony guy was the first to start with console warrior stuff, on his first post, but on my first reply I told him not to do that as that’s not what the thread was about, and he did stop. He sent me a dm, unprompted, without any reason from me, saying he would check over NDA stuff the next day, but THIS was in reference to whether he could talk about hardware in the PS5 that matches the XSX. He then mentions about RDNA, passing that info over with no effort. DO YOU REALLY THINK HE WOULD HOLD BACK ON INFO DUE TO NDA AND THEN FREELY SAY THIS OF IT WAS THE SAME?

No no, it’s much easier to say that I faked it all, or I broke NDA (seriously people pick a side here), or that I’m in a fucking discord Xbox conspiracy server hell bent on taking down playstation.

Mod of war has the proof. That’s all I can do. I won’t be saying anything else on the subject. Feel free to call me a knob for posting that pic. I posted it, then removed it as I instantly didnt feel right about it, not because of its content, but because it was a DM. it could have contained anything, my damn shopping list even, I haven’t done that before and I shouldn’t have done it then. It was the quickest and easiest way to show the RDNA talk. I’ve since apologised to him myself, as well as publicly.

So one last time... feel free to insult a stupid lack of judgement there. But the other stuff? The faking stuff? The discord stuff? The death threats to my wife and the lovey graphic detail of what you will do to my kid when you find her? Just know those have been passed on the the correct people.

Grow up people, just leave my family alone, for fucks sake... it’s not worth it.
That sucks man. People on the internet always have to take shit too far. I’m sorry some of your family are going through that.

Even if you end up vindicated in the end, the bullshit some people try to cause may not be worth it.
 

ANIMAL1975

Member
Aug 27, 2018
1,740
4,063
550
Portugal 🇵🇹
Stop me if I’m wrong but it appears that the only RDNA2 feature the ps5 is confirmed to have is hardware based ray tracing???

If true, I wonder if feature cuts in the CU are due to the complexity mentioned in keeping the GPU compatible at a hardware level with the GCN based CU’s in PS4 and PS4 Pro.

Regardless, if I was Microsoft I’d be working overtime to develop a version of DLSS using ML similar to nvidia to push the competitive advantage they have.
That's not how it works, it's not the features that make it RDNA1 or RDNA2... it's the base silicone, the CUs, the transistors, how do you think it can run those clock speeds? Because RDNA2 has a 50% IPC improvement in wattage over RDNA1.
As for the compatibility issues, they were all talked about in road to ps5, maybe watching it again will help? Yes Cerny openly talked about it, and said what additional features and hardware customizations for to AMD... And don't forget that, compared to series X, there's more space in the PS5 silicone for those customizations and RDNA1 add-ons... one is 40 CUs only.
Yes. I was always on the PlayStation train....I will get one but all of those are serious problems. Communication is terrible, I dunno what is going on but they really need to get a handle on messaging and start engaging with the community.

Back at the start of the PS4 Shuhei and Boyes and others put themselves out there and were talking to people. Now it's like Ryan is totally detached, up in some building somewhere doing no intereviews, no interaction...just nothing.

It's all being taken advantage of.... people are finding holes in what they've said and making it all into a PR disaster.

I'll just call it bad management.
Maybe there is sometimes, but this is plain fud and taking peoples words and taking it out of context for warring.
This is a big deal if true. Here is a very rough hypothetical breakdown.

12 TFLOPS
+ 25% ML upscale efficiency improvement
+ 25% IPC improvement (RDNA2 is supposedly 50% more than RDNA1, but I split that in half)
+ 25% VRS efficiency improvement

= 23.4TF or 130% performance difference over PS5
You straight answered why it can't be true: the improved wattage performance of RDNA2 that allows ps5 clocks.
 

93xfan

Member
Feb 23, 2013
3,490
2,661
775
My banking is there taking a gamble on the ssd to much then. Theoretical i know its not a gpu but maybe can do some things that a gpu would do

The SSD can definitely do some things a GPU can do. For example, did you know it can sit in a box of plastic for weeks or even months while waiting for the release date?
 

Zato

Banned
Apr 17, 2015
484
963
590
Well I suppose congratulations are in order.

I take it this means the exclusives are brilliant, especially from a company that put out almost nothing worthy for a whole generation. (Buying some mid tier devs doesn’t change that, especially overnight, tell me any of the system seller / AAA games any of those studios put out?)


Tell me, did Xbox having the superior machine for almost half the Gen and giving away games with game pass do anything to help bump up their sales this gen?

Or did they get beat overwhelming by Sony who had the best exclusive games between the two and by a Nintendo who turned up a few years later with the Switch?


Games sell consoles.
 

Xplainin

Banned
Apr 30, 2020
700
1,528
545
Wow at some of the comments here. Got to love GAF.
Both the PS5 and XSX are CUSTOM RDNA 2 GPUs. Just because XSX has VRS or ML, that doesn't mean Sony opted for the same features, or that MS opted for the same features Sony did. Then on top of that both Sony and MS would have worked with AMD to instigate their own additions and alterations that the other wouldn't have, such as IINT8 and INT4 for ML by MS, and GPU cache scrubbers for Sony.
These difference are what makes it all the more interesting. Some wont make any difference, and some may.
Relax people.
 
Last edited:

Zato

Banned
Apr 17, 2015
484
963
590
Where is it said PS5 doesn’t support VRS? Was this tech not already described / displayed in one of the PS5 /Unreal talks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr Moose

Xplainin

Banned
Apr 30, 2020
700
1,528
545
How many times did I call for Tommy Fisher to be banned from this forum.

Reported multiple times to the mods that he was full of shit. Yet we had many members here hanging on his every word when he posted 'insider' news.

Been saying this for ages. Resetera may be a dump in terms of having open discussion but Gaf actively allow this forum to be a troll haven with these mods here sitting their with their finger up their asses.
I think whoever Tommy Fischer was, he actually had some knowedge. If I am right he nailed the XSX specs. The chances of him guessing that was pretty slim as everyone was running with a 56CU GPU due to Github.
 

sonyfifa

Member
Apr 21, 2020
119
167
380
Rosario Leonardi, Principal Graphics Engineer at Sony Interactive Entertainment Europe, had this interesting tweet...


He also confirmed there is no machine learning...
Its means that it is RDNA2!. Going from rdna1.0 to rdna2.0 in segments by adding features(ray tracing). Making it version rdna1.6 for example.

Meaning they have all the features from rdna1.0 untill rdna2.0.
 

Nickolaidas

Member
Jan 18, 2019
4,835
13,768
625
I won’t be replying to this rubbish. A lot of strange conspiracy theories going on in this thread. Nobody will be fired, no NDA was broken. It was a PM, the first one sent to me by this guy in fact, that shared common knowledge information. I removed it because it was absolutely in bad taste to post it, not because of an NDA.

Ive actually sent Mod of War Mod of War the proof of it being real, but it hasn’t been mentioned yet I see. I can’t fake that proof either in the way it was sent. That can clear up THAT part of things. Why send it the mods and not public? You guys got all upset because I did it the first time with a pic. That’s why. The guy himself could post it was legit but instead posted in a way that could be interpreted either way, and why do you think that is?

I have no reason to fake something that most people knew. However, will say this. Looking at his other posts, none of which I may add are even related to me (such as the ML one, the gender one and others), it appears he could have been trolling ME with that message.

Either way, as per usual you guys have gone totally off the deep end and invented your own backstories and everything. I’ve taken a lot of flack for this, and quite rightly so for part of it. But trying to get into my social media accounts, spamming my contacts and sending death threats to my wife of all people? Over a piece of plastic? Because some guy on the internet happened to say something most people knew anyway...?

Come on people, grow the fuck up. There is no discord server that in part of, I don’t even use discord, haven’t since earlier in the year and that was to talk to a friend. There is no coordinated Xbox fanboy attack. This is a games console, a piece of plastic. You people need to get a life if this shit is so serious that you’ve kept my wife awake all night and made her panic.

Absolutely disgraceful.

I’ll say this again for those of you hard of hearing: I made a layman’s terms walkthrough of tech. Sony AND MS engineers came in to help, and help they did. We chatted privately as well as publicly. The Sony guy was the first to start with console warrior stuff, on his first post, but on my first reply I told him not to do that as that’s not what the thread was about, and he did stop. He sent me a dm, unprompted, without any reason from me, saying he would check over NDA stuff the next day, but THIS was in reference to whether he could talk about hardware in the PS5 that matches the XSX. He then mentions about RDNA, passing that info over with no effort. DO YOU REALLY THINK HE WOULD HOLD BACK ON INFO DUE TO NDA AND THEN FREELY SAY THIS IF IT WAS THE SAME CONCERN FOR THAT?

No no, it’s much easier to say that I faked it all, or I broke NDA (seriously people pick a side here), or that I’m in a fucking discord Xbox conspiracy server hell bent on taking down playstation.

Mod of war has the proof. That’s all I can do. I won’t be saying anything else on the subject. Feel free to call me a knob for posting that pic. I posted it, then removed it as I instantly didnt feel right about it, not because of its content, but because it was a DM. it could have contained anything, my damn shopping list even, I haven’t done that before and I shouldn’t have done it then. It was the quickest and easiest way to show the RDNA talk. I’ve since apologised to him myself, as well as publicly.

So one last time... feel free to insult a stupid lack of judgement there. But the other stuff? The faking stuff? The discord stuff? The death threats to my wife and the lovey graphic detail of what you will do to my kid when you find her? Just know those have been passed on the the correct people.

Grow up people, just leave my family alone, for fucks sake... it’s not worth it.

TLZ TLZ yes, again. Just so happened the last time this was over... a damn PlayStation. I see a pattern here.
No one nor his loved ones should be getting death/rape threats over anything - least of all two fucking toys.

I swear, manchild heaven.

You're a good guy, o'dium.
 

Xplainin

Banned
Apr 30, 2020
700
1,528
545
Where is it said PS5 doesn’t support VRS? Was this tech not already described / displayed in one of the PS5 /Unreal talks.
Nothing has been said officially that the PS5 has VRS. In fact, Digital Foundry contacted Sony to confirm if it had VRS and Sony never responded. Cerny never said it in his PS5 reveal, and has actually never mentioned it anywhere.
At this point we dont know, but the silence may speak volumes.
 

Shpeshal Nick

aka Collingwood
Mar 16, 2007
15,499
246
1,490
Nothing has been said officially that the PS5 has VRS. In fact, Digital Foundry contacted Sony to confirm if it had VRS and Sony never responded. Cerny never said it in his PS5 reveal, and has actually never mentioned it anywhere.
At this point we dont know, but the silence may speak volumes.

Well....if it had it, the GDC talk would be the time to mention it no? Safe to assume if any of those in-depth technical features weren't mentioned during the GDC video, they're probably not there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SoloKingRobert

pawel86ck

Banned
Jan 27, 2018
2,122
3,224
430
PS5 fans still have plenty of reason for hope. He has no reason to make this slide unless the ps5 didn't get the flop benefits of RDNA2 :






Remember, in Lord Cerny you trust. He has never let you down. He is strong.

To my understanding both consoles are based on RDNA2, but cant be really compared to PC RDNA2. We dont know the performance implications of these customizations and it's still possible Sony build the fastest architecture for gaming (Cache srubbers sounds like a killer feature on PS5, while XSX has directML).

One thing for sure, PS5 GPU is more powerful than people are willing to admit. It takes a monster GPU to run 4K native and RT on top of that even at 30fps, and RT7 runs at 60fps.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: hyperbertha

longdi

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
8,933
6,714
1,890
Where is it said PS5 doesn’t support VRS? Was this tech not already described / displayed in one of the PS5 /Unreal talks.

PS5 lack of VRS and ML, if true. Imo will be bigger than rdna1/2.

It could mean Series X games not only looks better, they can have higher performance bar.

MS talked about back porting HDR to old games, i guess that is because of ML secret sauce!
 

FunkMiller

Member
Aug 14, 2014
8,781
27,367
990
I won’t be replying to this rubbish. A lot of strange conspiracy theories going on in this thread. Nobody will be fired, no NDA was broken. It was a PM, the first one sent to me by this guy in fact, that shared common knowledge information. I removed it because it was absolutely in bad taste to post it, not because of an NDA.

Ive actually sent Mod of War Mod of War the proof of it being real, but it hasn’t been mentioned yet I see. I can’t fake that proof either in the way it was sent. That can clear up THAT part of things. Why send it the mods and not public? You guys got all upset because I did it the first time with a pic. That’s why. The guy himself could post it was legit but instead posted in a way that could be interpreted either way, and why do you think that is?

I have no reason to fake something that most people knew. However, will say this. Looking at his other posts, none of which I may add are even related to me (such as the ML one, the gender one and others), it appears he could have been trolling ME with that message.

Either way, as per usual you guys have gone totally off the deep end and invented your own backstories and everything. I’ve taken a lot of flack for this, and quite rightly so for part of it. But trying to get into my social media accounts, spamming my contacts and sending death threats to my wife of all people? Over a piece of plastic? Because some guy on the internet happened to say something most people knew anyway...?

Come on people, grow the fuck up. There is no discord server that in part of, I don’t even use discord, haven’t since earlier in the year and that was to talk to a friend. There is no coordinated Xbox fanboy attack. This is a games console, a piece of plastic. You people need to get a life if this shit is so serious that you’ve kept my wife awake all night and made her panic.

Absolutely disgraceful.

I’ll say this again for those of you hard of hearing: I made a layman’s terms walkthrough of tech. Sony AND MS engineers came in to help, and help they did. We chatted privately as well as publicly. The Sony guy was the first to start with console warrior stuff, on his first post, but on my first reply I told him not to do that as that’s not what the thread was about, and he did stop. He sent me a dm, unprompted, without any reason from me, saying he would check over NDA stuff the next day, but THIS was in reference to whether he could talk about hardware in the PS5 that matches the XSX. He then mentions about RDNA, passing that info over with no effort. DO YOU REALLY THINK HE WOULD HOLD BACK ON INFO DUE TO NDA AND THEN FREELY SAY THIS IF IT WAS THE SAME CONCERN FOR THAT?

No no, it’s much easier to say that I faked it all, or I broke NDA (seriously people pick a side here), or that I’m in a fucking discord Xbox conspiracy server hell bent on taking down playstation.

Mod of war has the proof. That’s all I can do. I won’t be saying anything else on the subject. Feel free to call me a knob for posting that pic. I posted it, then removed it as I instantly didnt feel right about it, not because of its content, but because it was a DM. it could have contained anything, my damn shopping list even, I haven’t done that before and I shouldn’t have done it then. It was the quickest and easiest way to show the RDNA talk. I’ve since apologised to him myself, as well as publicly.

So one last time... feel free to insult a stupid lack of judgement there. But the other stuff? The faking stuff? The discord stuff? The death threats to my wife and the lovey graphic detail of what you will do to my kid when you find her? Just know those have been passed on the the correct people.

Grow up people, just leave my family alone, for fucks sake... it’s not worth it.

TLZ TLZ yes, again. Just so happened the last time this was over... a damn PlayStation. I see a pattern here.

Ugh. It’s absolutely disgusting that you’ve been harassed like that. But that’s the way of the internet over these kinds of emotive issues. The console war is a thing that people want to perpetrate, whether any of us like it or not. It might be worth reflecting on all of this, and maybe staying out of posting stuff that’s likely to lead to this kind of activity.

It's one guy sending out fake info about PS5 and his cronies on there being in on it but trolling here the same info. I always knew Bernkastel was weird.

Well, that’s just super creepy.

And I’m staying out do this thread from now on. The FUD and stupidity is not worth it. I’ll wait until the consoles actually come out to confirm or deny any of this stuff.
 
Last edited:

longdi

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
8,933
6,714
1,890
Microsoft's DirectML is the next-generation game-changer that nobody's talking about

As many of you know, Microsoft revealed its DXR API in 2018, bringing the world's attention to realtime raytracing. At that time, most people dismissed DirectX Raytracing (DXR) as a feature which won't be ready for the release of Microsoft's next-generation console. Now, DXR support has been confirmed for Microsoft's Xbox Series X, and AMD has confirmed that new Radeon hardware will support hardware-accelerated DXR raytracing in 2020, making DXR a reality for next-generation games.

Microsoft revealed DirectML at the same time as DXR, but DirectML didn't receive much attention

Work on DirectML has been happening, at least publically, for as long as DXR has, making it likely that AMD is working on hardware DirectML support for its next-generation graphics cards.

Microsoft has already showcased the potential of machine learning in gaming applications, with the image below showcasing what happens when Machine Learning is used to upscale an image to four times its original resolution (basically from 1080p to 4K) to generate a sharper final image and reduced aliasing. The image below is a comparison between ML Super Sampling and bilinear upsampling.

This technique has also been showcased during one of Microsoft's SIGGRAPH 2018 tech talks. This talk, which is entitled "Deep Learning for Real-Time Rendering: Accelerating GPU Inferencing with DirectML and DirectX 12" showcases Nvidia hardware upscaling Playground Games' Forza Horizon 3 from 1080p to 4K using DirectML in real-time. DirectML has the potential to improve the graphical fidelity of future console and PC games.

While DirectML hasn't received as much attention as DirectX raytracing, you can be sure that developers are looking at the new API closely. As screen manufacturers are starting to push beyond 4K, AI upscaling technologies like Nvidia's DLSS will continue to increase in popularity. 4K gaming is already a challenge, and 8K is going to prove to be even more problematic for game makers and hardware vendors. Technologies like DirectML will become vital for future games and consoles; the question now is whether or not this tech will be supported on next-generation consoles.



Last part, guess ML upscale supersampling is striked out for PS5 :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Bill O'Rights

Seldom posts. Always delivers.
Staff Member
Dec 5, 2017
406
3,498
625
In light of the above claims and ban review thread discussions, this thread has been re-opened. It should be framed and discussed along the following lines. The PM exchange screenshotted is valid, and the required evidence of its veracity has been provided. The below screenshot is legitimate and the key discussion point here is custom/proprietary architecture sitting between two defined architectures.





The second screenshot concerning the tweet regarding ML can be interpreted as a case of mistaken information, a realisation of breach of NDA or a myriad other reasons. While we have no conclusive evidence that the tweet is in fact 100% legitimate, we do have a source for the deleted chain provided by J_Gamer.exe J_Gamer.exe


Deleted tweet link


The tweet itself is not archived on google cache or twipu etc. this may just be because the time between events was so small. We would encourage everyone to use a web archiver for these type of tweets going forward. We can confirm we have two different screenshots of the same tweet as well, so it is plausible to suggest this tweet existed and was subsequently deleted. The reason for deletion is freely up for debate and contestation.




 
Last edited:

FranXico

Member
Dec 7, 2010
14,502
29,193
1,420
The same engineer who "confirmed sub-RDNA2" further ellaborated and actually clarified that it is heavily customized and actually based on RDNA2, minus a feature (probably VRS didn't make the cut after all).


translated said:
Inevitably ended in the midst of a fierce controversy, the engineer clarified his statements to make people understand exactly how things are. His new messages, which are also private and unfortunately shared on social media, are very interesting:

"RDNA 2 is a commercial theme to simplify the market, otherwise GPUs with completely random features would come out and it would be difficult for the average user to choose," wrote Leonardi.

"For example, support for ray tracing is not present in any AMD GPU currently on the market. (...) The PlayStation 5 GPU is unique, it cannot be classified as RDNA 1, 2, 3 or 4."

"It is based on RDNA 2, but it has more features and, it seems to me, one less. That message turned out badly, I was tired and I shouldn't have written the things I wrote", continued the engineer, complaining that he received insults for his statements.
 
Last edited:

Tangerine

Member
May 26, 2019
142
372
330
Surely consessions have to be made in other areas if the controller and the ssd are superior on the playstation? I guess superior is subjective when it comes to the controller, but more costly seems obvious? It has a lot more tech in there. A rechargeable battery, adaptive triggers, microphone etc.

So if the controller and ssd cost more to manufacture, to be competitive price wise with the xbox series x, like I said before, consessions have to be made. It would seem the power of the graphics is where Sony made those concessions?

You can't have it all. It just seems obvious that the series X is going to be more powerful, surely? That's not to say the ps5 won't be a great piece of tech though.

Be realistic people!
 
  • Like
Reactions: jaytyla and longdi

WhiskeyDiver

Member
Apr 21, 2012
2,323
1,056
1,050
I'll just wait until I see enough games on both systems being analyzed on each system to have an accurate and average amount of graphical horsepower edge the Series X has over the Playstation 5. I honestly enjoy analysis of games graphics and performance videos...from unbiased and honest sources.
 
Last edited:

geordiemp

Member
Sep 5, 2013
11,920
25,017
1,010
UK
I don't understand why this was a surprise.
Digital Foundry stated they didn't believe PS5 was full RDNA2 months ago.

Cerny did not want Ps5 full RDNA 2 - hold my beer !

The new Geometry engine is patented by Cerny, improvements in efficiency are important.

Patent goes into great detail on pixel densities and changing FOV and removing rendering inefficiencies up to 2.5 x (Page 4) and high FOV applications. People seem to like that 2.5 number ...
 
Last edited:

Dontero

Banned
Apr 19, 2018
3,046
3,373
650
PS5 CUs are about 30% smaller going by Cerny presentation. Which means it lacks something compared to normal CU.

It is idiotic to argue that PS5 cpus will feature equal or more features than Xbox counterpart if you take into account size of CU.

IT means PS5 RDNA2 or RDNA1+ lacks certain features.


edit: mistake
 
Last edited:

geordiemp

Member
Sep 5, 2013
11,920
25,017
1,010
UK
PS5 CUs are about 30% smaller going by Cerny presentation. Which means it lacks something compared to normal CU.

It is idiotic to argue that PS5 cpus will feature equal or more features than Xbox counterpart if you take into account size of CU.

IT means PS5 RDNA2 or RDNA1+ lacks certain features.

62 % larger Cerny said and we now know that there is 1 item thats not RDNA2, and Cerny has a patent on that, the Ps5 new geometry engine giving 2.5 effciency as people like 2.5 x things..
 
Last edited:

DForce

Member
Nov 23, 2017
5,437
10,703
615
I don't understand why this was a surprise.
Digital Foundry stated they didn't believe PS5 was full RDNA2 months ago.

Alex was skeptical because he put to much faith in the Github leaks and thought the PlayStation 5 didn't support HW RT.

John and Richard didn't know if it was a full RDNA due because Cerny didn't talk about ML and VRS. But since ML was mentioned by a member of EA, then its probobably all but confirmed that Sony ahs something similar to machine learning in PS5.

Sony really pushed checkerboard rendering and other upscaling techniques through the studios and it wouldn't surprise me that they would push for VRS or ML in the PS5.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bryank75

FranXico

Member
Dec 7, 2010
14,502
29,193
1,420
PS5 CUs are about 30% smaller going by Cerny presentation. Which means it lacks something compared to normal CU.

It is idiotic to argue that PS5 cpus will feature equal or more features than Xbox counterpart if you take into account size of CU.

IT means PS5 RDNA2 or RDNA1+ lacks certain features.
It's RDNA2 minus specific features, with other custom specific features on top instead. The CUs are RDNA2, and the ppw is therefore that of RDNA2. See post above with a quote from the graphics engineer ellaborating on it.
 

Snake29

Member
Jul 30, 2013
2,536
4,132
725
The Netherlands
It will be funny if the end result is still the same but just different methods. It was always based on the latest RDNA tech (2), but also customized, so what i do not understand is why people act as if it missing some parts they don't even know about and already saying the gab will be larger???

FranXico FranXico

Correct:



How will people react when they come to the conclusion that Microsoft also adopted some features from RDNA1? RDNA2 is still based on RDNA1 and RDNA3 will also be based on those previous RDNA architectures.
 
Last edited:

DinoD

Member
Mar 7, 2020
477
1,192
340
We don't really know anything about in-game performance of each console. Why don't we just wait for games? If MS delivers more powerful console experience at similar or lower price than Sony, then you could really say Sony screwed up. That's why is important to have a viable competition in this space. We (gamers) always benefit.
 
  • Praise the Sun
  • Like
Reactions: Clarissa and ZywyPL

SleepDoctor

Banned
Nov 11, 2019
2,355
4,625
515
so it wasn't fake, no surprise.

Dude could have easily shut it down when asked about it on Twitter and didn't. Well there you have it.


Edit: Plenty of "neo" members coming out of the woodwork so heavily invested in the "spec talk". Wonder how long before they're all exposed as alts.
 
Last edited:

pawel86ck

Banned
Jan 27, 2018
2,122
3,224
430
I'm not so sure if PS5 really needs ML, because checkerboard upscaling can look very good as well. XSX has ML on paper, but without tensor cores equivalent developers will have to use shaders for ML calculations. I want to see evidence XSX can benefit from ML in real games before I will start making jokes in regards to missing ML on PS5.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Dec 25, 2019
11,765
22,516
1,025
Prague, Czech Republic
PS5 CUs are about 30% smaller going by Cerny presentation. Which means it lacks something compared to normal CU.

It is idiotic to argue that PS5 cpus will feature equal or more features than Xbox counterpart if you take into account size of CU.

IT means PS5 RDNA2 or RDNA1+ lacks certain features.

It's RDNA2 minus specific features, with other custom specific features on top instead. The CUs are RDNA2, and the ppw is therefore that of RDNA2. See post above with a quote from the graphics engineer ellaborating on it.

Probably those "tensor cores", I think that is something which you want to avoid, if you are not believe that is useful, if you run your GPU at 2.23Ghz. As seen on RTX GPUs, those cards simply have bigger power drain, because this added features.
 

BlueXImpulse

Banned
Jul 10, 2020
2,572
15,224
540
The same engineer who "confirmed sub-RDNA2" further ellaborated and actually clarified that it is heavily customized and actually based on RDNA2, minus a feature (probably VRS didn't make the cut after all).


This is what I was saying in the other thread. His words were misconstrued.

PS5 CUs are about 30% smaller going by Cerny presentation. Which means it lacks something compared to normal CU.

It is idiotic to argue that PS5 cpus will feature equal or more features than Xbox counterpart if you take into account size of CU.

IT means PS5 RDNA2 or RDNA1+ lacks certain features.

Find us the exact time stamp or source for this claim of 30% smaller CUs please.
 

FranXico

Member
Dec 7, 2010
14,502
29,193
1,420
Probably those "tensor cores", I think that is something which you want to avoid, if you are not believe that is useful, if you run your GPU at 2.23Ghz. As seen on RTX GPUs, those cards simply have bigger power drain, because this added features.
Indeed possible. But we would be back at speculating at this point.

I would not assume that RT is not HW based though (which is the implication of the lack of tensor cores).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: M1chl