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(*) Sony PS5 Vs. Xbox Series X Technical Analysis: Why The PS5’s 10.3 TFLOPs Figure Is Misleading

sonomamashine

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Basically depends on as of yet unknown pricing.

If the PS5 was 399 and the SeX was 499, they'd draw nearly even on performance per dollar, that seems about fair to me. If only Sony had got the BC story down perfectly, with those two things I don't think I would have cared much about this level of power difference, hoping they realize they have work to do and have a better BC story by launch/nearly all titles soon after.


This is of course apart from the obvious that people will chose based on the games they want to play.
 

psorcerer

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in real world condition how many 57000xt (even reference desing) is running at 8.22 tf ?
Dunno. Never seen such benchmarks.
But I do know that all the TF numbers of all the GPUs till now were in "boosted" TFs and nobody was whining.
 

Proelite

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Are these real numbers or are you just taking guesses?
You'll see.

Smartshift is used in mobile devices where they're limited to a certain TDP. Chips in mobile drops by over 50% in clocks to boost the other parts. It's not something you use for a mere 10% or even 20% variance in clocks.

CPU and GPUs have a optimal sweet spot. Moving past those sweets spots add diminish returns up really quickly.
 
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martino

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Dunno. Never seen such benchmarks.
But I do know that all the TF numbers of all the GPUs till now were in "boosted" TFs and nobody was whining.
seems comon sense to me you don't whine when you hardware can perform better than what is advertised.
the reverse ....not same story
 
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Genx3

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You'll see.

Smartshift is used in mobile devices where they're limited to a certain TDP. Chips in mobile drops by over 50% in clocks to boost the other parts. It's not something you use for a mere 10% or even 20% variance in clocks.

CPU and GPUs have a optimal sweet spot. Moving past those sweets spots add diminish returns up really quickly.
Daaaaaaaaamn
If that is what happens then I'll be waiting on the PS5 Pro in 2023.
 

Shin

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Are these real numbers or are you just taking guesses?
Why would the GPU ever need to drop below 2Ghz?
PlayStation blog:
Variable frequency, up to 3.5 GHz
Variable frequency, up to 2.23 GHz (10.3 TFLOPS)

Variable/fixed is self explanatory.


I guess the slot is directly tied to PCI lane
Make of it what you will:
 
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Azelover

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I just watched Digital Foundry's analysis of Gears 5 demo on Xbox Series X.

And, my God! That's supposed to be a generational leap? I can barely see the difference! Even side to side.

It's gonna take a lot of brainwashing, and great games, to make the world buy these new consoles for more than $300. Good luck Sony & Microsoft. I wish you both well.
 

psorcerer

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then why is the advertised frequency not fixed or the minimal guaranted ?
It is not fixed or guaranteed in any other GPU. Apart from MSFT PR for XSeX.
I'm not saying that MSFT are lying. They may start a new trend of "fixed freq".
But claiming that "unfixed" frequencies is unheard of is... eh...
 

it_wasn't_me

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It is actually better in everything but the SSD and when combined with the variable clock speeds that Sony had to use to reach the damned double digits TF number, the difference becomes even bigger.
Eh, you should listen what Cerny said yesterday. Both CPU and GPU are at peak most of the time. 2% drops in frequency ( that's around 55 MHz ) are in worst case scenario and it's still at 10.2 TF. What, you want to difference in TF be bigger? Naaah
 

Alphagear

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Seeing what the ps4 pro can do with around 4tf i am more than
excited for the ps5.

Will all due respect. I'd Rather play Sony First party exclusives @ 1800p than Microsofts First Party exclusives @ 2160p
 
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Johnglen

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Eh, you should listen what Cerny said yesterday. Both CPU and GPU are at peak most of the time. 2% drops in frequency ( that's around 55 MHz ) are in worst case scenario and it's still at 10.2 TF. What, you want to difference in TF be bigger? Naaah
I listened to Cerny, I will just wait for an in depth analysis by places like DF WHEN THEY GET THE ACTUAL CONSOLE to draw conclusions, Cerny’s presentation was embarrassing. Compare what he was saying in the ps4 presentation with what he said for the ps5, both presentations are available on Youtube. When he talks about how meaningless TF are and how he dislikes a big number of CU (!!!!!!!!) he legitimately gave me a smile. Silence is golden sometimes.
 
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Shin

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I just watched Digital Foundry's analysis of Gears 5 demo on Xbox Series X.

And, my God! That's supposed to be a generational leap? I can barely see the difference! Even side to side.

It's gonna take a lot of brainwashing, and great games, to make the world buy these new consoles for more than $300. Good luck Sony & Microsoft. I wish you both well.
No, it was done in 2 weeks time, hardly any real usage of XS's features and abilities.
But that's only part of it, when they covered Gears 5 they were already impressed with what was achieved + artistic style makes it hard to distinguish.
That's the best explanation I can give you as I saw both videos (basically it looks really great on Xbox X when compared to PC but it's NOT a game build on NG specs).
 
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MilkyJoe

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I just watched Digital Foundry's analysis of Gears 5 demo on Xbox Series X.

And, my God! That's supposed to be a generational leap? I can barely see the difference! Even side to side.

It's gonna take a lot of brainwashing, and great games, to make the world buy these new consoles for more than $300. Good luck Sony & Microsoft. I wish you both well.
You didn't watch very closely then.
 

martino

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It is not fixed or guaranteed in any other GPU. Apart from MSFT PR for XSeX.
I'm not saying that MSFT are lying. They may start a new trend of "fixed freq".
But claiming that "unfixed" frequencies is unheard of is... eh...
you're twisting it again.
what is unheard of is advertised best case scenarios you reach but not at the same time to not look bad.
or you will tell me that 3.6ghz and 12.1ghz on xsx can't be reached an sustained at the same time(and if it's the case i misunderstood that part, it's not impossible)
 
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Johnglen

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I just watched Digital Foundry's analysis of Gears 5 demo on Xbox Series X.

And, my God! That's supposed to be a generational leap? I can barely see the difference! Even side to side.

It's gonna take a lot of brainwashing, and great games, to make the world buy these new consoles for more than $300. Good luck Sony & Microsoft. I wish you both well.
You do understand that this was just a small presentation of how enhanced BC will work on the XSX and not a presentation of an actual XSX game right ?
 

it_wasn't_me

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I listened to Cerny, I will just wait for an in depth analysis by places like DF WHEN THEY GET THE ACTUAL CONSOLE to draw conclusions, Cerny’s presentation was embarrassing. Compare what he was saying in the ps4 presentation with what he said for the ps5, both presentations are available on Youtube. When he talks about how meaningless TF are and how he dislikes la large number of CU (!!!!!!!!) he legitimately gave me a smile. Silence is golden sometimes.
Nah, looks like you didn't. So, DF surely know better than Cerny how PS5 is designed? LOL
 

Rightisright

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I'm kinda stuck on the fence with whether the PS 5 will maintain 2.23ghz the majority of the time. Cerny said it would, and I dont take him for too much of a liar. I kinda believe him.
His explanation was that they reversed the way it's typically done.
The XSX has the speed locked, and the power draw goes up or down depending on the load on the APU. He then said the PS5 has the power draw locked, and then the frequency goes up or down depending on the load on the APU.
So from what he is saying, if the game or scene is less demanding, the frequency of the GPU and GPU will drop, thereby lowering heat thermals on the APU. If the scene is demanding it will run at the full speed.
That is why it is variable in speed.
 

Johnglen

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Nah, looks like you didn't. So, DF surely know better than Cerny how PS5 is designed? LOL
Cerny is the man responsible for the ps5 , he is not an impartial tech person. Some of the things he said were embarrassing, had a MS tech person said some of this stuff he would have been laughed out of the Internet and rightfully so. Again compare his thesis on console design for the ps4 and for the ps5.

Well the same people’s previous semi-Gods were Kleegamefan and osirisblack and now that their God spoke they advise us to listen to him and believe everything he said in blind faith. No thanks....
 
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psorcerer

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what is unheard of is advertised best case scenarios you reach but not at the same time to not look bad.
Again, all Nvidia and AMD GPUs always advertised max clocks and max TF numbers.
Why they can reach it, but Sony cannot?
 

wintersouls

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Nah, looks like you didn't. So, DF surely know better than Cerny how PS5 is designed? LOL

Not only DF. If you read video game forums from all countries, everyone seems to understand and know much more about PS5 than Cerny overnight. It is better to take it with a lot of humor.
 
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Johnglen

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Again, all Nvidia and AMD GPUs always advertised max clocks and max TF numbers.
Why they can reach it, but Sony cannot?
They can reach it but not consistently, have you never used a pc graphics card in your life ? Something has to give in, in the pc space too, whether that’s GPU or CPU when it comes to maximum clock speeds or most PCs would explode.
Ask yourself if both the CPU and the GPU can sustain peak clock speeds all the time why Sony, for the first time ever, gave variable clock speeds in its spec sheet .
 
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Johnglen

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Not only DF. If you read video game forums from all countries, everyone seems to understand and know much more about PS5 than Cerny overnight. It is better to take it with a lot of humor.
Cerny is an employee. Again what did you expect him to say ? The guy said that many CU is a bad thing !!! I have never in my life ever seen this thing being said by ANY tech expert.
 

psorcerer

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They can reach it but not consistently, have you never used a pc graphics card in your life ? Something has to give in, in the c space too, whether that’s GPU or CPU when it comes to maximum clock speeds or most PCs would explode.
Ask yourself if both the CPU and the GPU can sustain peak clock speeds all the time why Sony, for the first time ever, gave variable clock speeds in its spec sheet .
PC cards change their clock multiple times within one frame.
What's the problem?
I did heard about game that will damage AMD cards though, but it was a long time ago. And people who made that possible: use a PC card to full 100% for an extended period of time, they don't make these people anymore.
So, it will be all right.


ok this explain everything. Do you even have a pc ?
Yep. I do.
 
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