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(*) Sony PS5 Vs. Xbox Series X Technical Analysis: Why The PS5’s 10.3 TFLOPs Figure Is Misleading

LordKasual

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It's simple, 9.2TF VS 12.1TF there is a 3TF gap, 2 digit TF count is better than 1.
OP. why are you assuming it's going to only be able to sustain 9.2? We've been over this. The number is 10.3, and the GPU runs a higher frequency.

They've already explained how the clock works. It has a fixed power budget and thus ALWAYS accounts for the maximum load. The cooling solution thus always knows exactly how much it'll have to cool, and the chip will operate regardless of temperature/strain because the performance of the console is locked.

"VARIABLE" refers to the ability to save/recycle unused energy when the console ISN'T demanding the full potential of the chip, which will always exist even in the most taxing games because scene requirements literally change by the second.


Worse case scenario, it'll lose a tiny bit of power but literally everyone who's reviewed the architecture on a technical level has said this would be very minimal, barely worth measuring. (I heard something like 50MHZ.....nothing.)

But the technique isn't new, it's been proven in chips that exist in PCs right now.


Sooooo why are you assuming 9.2? This thread is literally running off old baseless rumors.
 
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MisterXDTV

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At or close to.

If people thinks 10.3TF is close to 12 (which they are), they better think 9TF is close 10.3TF.
But you are ignoring "at" and fixating on the "close to"

If you read the sentence it means it's possible for games to run at 3.5ghz and 2.3 ghz as long as the game doesn't go over the power limit based on the cooling solution
 
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Proelite

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But you are ignoring "at" and fixating on the "close to"

If you read the sentence it means it's possible for games to run at 3.5ghz and 2.3 ghz as long as the game doesn't go over the power limit based on the cooling solution
Thermal throttling is exactly not what Cerny talked about. We'll see devs talk about what clocks they're choosing to hit on the PS.
 
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ethomaz

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Yep when the cpu is running at a much slower speed than the 3.5 GHz advertised (and even then it remains to be seen if the ps5 GPU will be able to sustain that insane clock speed).
Where you get how much lower speeds the CPU needs to run?
The clock is not insane... it is what you expect with 50% increase in perf. per watt.
RDNA2 cards will probably run at higher clock than PS5.
 
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LordKasual

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But you are ignoring "at" and fixating on the "close to"

If you read the sentence it means it's possible for games to run at 3.5ghz and 2.3 ghz as long as the game doesn't go over the power limit based on the cooling solution
the game CANT go over the power limit. That's why it's a power limit. The power limit exists to always hit those numbers.

The temperature is completely irrelevant.
 

it_wasn't_me

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But you are ignoring "at" and fixating on the "close to"

If you read the sentence it means it's possible for games to run at 3.5ghz and 2.3 ghz as long as the game doesn't go over the power limit based on the cooling solution
Fucking finally at least except me, said what Cerny mentioned that both CPU and GPU will be at peak most of the time
 

MisterXDTV

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Thermal throttling is exactly not what Cerny talked about.
Who said anything about temperature? I'm talking about POWER DRAW. Cerny said that in order to reduce power draw (only when it goes beyond the max TDP), the machine will lower the clocks just a bit....

I just posted the whole speech....
 

Max_Po

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I think people are way too much into stats. You need to wait for price. There is no way XboxSeries X is a 399 console where as PS5 might be.

Also, the ONLY FACT is PS5 will have million times better exclusives than Xbox... MS can take the 12..14 TFlops to 20 Tflops... but at the end of the day they won't have anything close to PS5 library. Just because you purchase a studio does not mean you make a Top AAA exclusive ...

While the fanboys fight.. trust me... I used to waste life on this shit... I am going to squeeze out some life out of PS4-Pro and my XboxOne x..


Come one guys .. ...... keep arguing...
 

Jonsoncao

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Again with this 9.2 bullshit. Just for the love of God stop it. Absolutely no official mentioned it. Cerny confirmed to DF 10.3 is what it'll be at most. He never mentioned how far it'd drop. NX Gamer explained what it actually meant, that it really is 10.3 and would only drop around 50mhz at most to keep that power output in check. So that's around 10TF.

There's absolutely no evidence of this 9.2 bullshit. Again, please, just drop it. Let's talk about what we actually officially have in our hands, 10.3 and 12.1, and the various other specs.

Stop trying too hard.
Please don't be so sure when everything is not 100% certain (especially the thermal solution in that we do not see it in action), otherwise it will be like another great debacle of 36CU when blind fans boarding on the chuchu train.
 

MisterXDTV

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the game CANT go over the power limit. That's why it's a power limit. The power limit exists to always hit those numbers.

The temperature is completely irrelevant.
Temperature is irrelevant, but power is relevant. If a game reaches the worst case scenario in terms of power draw the machine will adjust the clocks.

I guess it's up to the devs to use the resources they have in the best possible way
 

Windows-PC

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All I can remember is that alot if not 95% of all PlayStation Fans were hoping that the 13.3 TF's rumor was true because it was very important to them to have more TF's than the competition.

But now it seems like that this has changed since it didn't turn out as they hoped. It's crazy how fast priorities can change ;)
 
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it_wasn't_me

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All I can remember is that alot if not 95% of all PlayStation Fans were hoping that the 13.3 TF's rumor was true because it was very important to them to have more TF's than the competition.

But now it seems like that this has changed since it didn't turn out as they hoped. It's crazy how fast priorities can change ;)
There was a difference.

Sony fans wishing the PS5 is more than 12TF are rooting for their own team and are seeing things from a positive standpoint.

Xbox fans wishing the PS5 is below 10TF are rooting AGAINST the other team and are seeing things from a pessimistic viewpoint.


And now, Xbox trying now to downplay PS5's 10.3 numbers as far as they can.
 
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TLZ

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Please don't be so sure when everything is not 100% certain (especially the thermal solution in that we do not see it in action), otherwise it will be like another great debacle of 36CU when blind fans boarding on the chuchu train.
I can only go by what was officially said. I'm not going to be trolled by silly forum baseless assumptions.

Anyway I'm out of this troll thread.
 

siekro1983

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Again with this 9.2 bullshit. Just for the love of God stop it. Absolutely no official mentioned it. Cerny confirmed to DF 10.3 is what it'll be at most. He never mentioned how far it'd drop. NX Gamer explained what it actually meant, that it really is 10.3 and would only drop around 50mhz at most to keep that power output in check. So that's around 10TF.

There's absolutely no evidence of this 9.2 bullshit. Again, please, just drop it. Let's talk about what we actually officially have in our hands, 10.3 and 12.1, and the various other specs.

Stop trying too hard.
wait till DF does an analysis . i bet the console will be 9.2/2GHZ teraflops when pushing impressive AAA games. As a sony fan, this is just a great PR move by sony.
 
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Johnglen

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There was a difference.

Sony fans wishing the PS5 is more than 12TF are rooting for their own team and are seeing things from a positive standpoint.

Xbox fans wishing the PS5 is below 10TF are rooting AGAINST the other team and are seeing things from a pessimistic viewpoint.


And now, Xbox trying now to downplay PS5's 10.3 numbers as far as they can.
Come on, until MS dropped the bomb by revealing the XSX box , which was a dead giveaway that the console would be a beast, Sony fans were hoping for a weak Xbox. After they realized that this wasn’t happening they started the 13 TF stuff and the «I hope both consoles are of similar power» bullshit , while hanging on to every bs thing internet «insiders» were feeding them,

We have seen how Sony fans react when they see the opposition having a weaker console whether it is the Xbox one or the wii/wii u and they are a scary mob. What you see from MS fans is child’s play.
 
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it_wasn't_me

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Come on, until MS dropped the bomb by revealing the XSX box , which was a dead giveaway that the console would be a beast, Sony fans were hoping for a weak Xbox. After they realized that this wasn’t happening they started the 13 TF stuff and the «I hope both consoles are of similar power» bullshit , while hanging on to every bs thing internet «insiders» were feeding them,

We have seen how Sony fans react when they see the opposition having a weaker console whether it is the Xbox one or the wii/wii u and they are a scary mob. What you see from MS fans is child’s play.
Nope. Before Reiner tweet, the vast majority had accepted that PS5 will be weaker because rumored MSs 2 SKU strategy and how MS need that power crown. It was widely accepted. It was even a blasphemy to think that PS5 will be more powerful. After Reiner's tweet everything changed ( Colin's also ). And after that tweet and Klee's info, bunch of PS owners are hoping that PS5 will be 12+ TF just to have powerful console as XSX . Klee also said that XSX is slightly above 12 TF. He was right about that. Xbox fans get their 12 TF for XSX. Well, in the end PS5 is 10.3 TF :D I was even in HBM hype train because previous rumors.
 

wordslaughter

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I just don't know what to say to people who believe temperature is irrelevant at 2.23GHz!

Do you know how many PC GPUs can sustain 2.23GHz?

ZERO
 

martino

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Who said anything about temperature? I'm talking about POWER DRAW. Cerny said that in order to reduce power draw (only when it goes beyond the max TDP), the machine will lower the clocks just a bit....

I just posted the whole speech....
i hope you will even try to look the definition of acrynom you are parroting at some point.
if ps5 really need to go beyond its tdp capacity to reach 10.23 it will run hot quick and won't last long
 
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it_wasn't_me

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I just don't know what to say to people who believe temperature is irrelevant at 2.23GHz!

Do you know how many PC GPUs can sustain 2.23GHz?

ZERO
That's why : https://www.gamesradar.com/au/ps5-cooling-patent-suggests-next-gen-console-wont-suffer-from-the-ps4s-noisy-fan-problem/

Mark Cerny during presentation mentioned few times the loudness of PS4 console and how they designed a cooling system for PS5. Also he mentioned will see it in tear down later. Anyway, we'll see how it goes later this year
 
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Johnglen

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Nope. Before Reiner tweet, the vast majority had accepted that PS5 will be weaker because rumored MSs 2 SKU strategy and how MS need that power crown. It was widely accepted. It was even a blasphemy to think that PS5 will be more powerful. After Reiner's tweet everything changed ( Colin's also ). And after that tweet and Klee's info, bunch of PS owners are hoping that PS5 will be 12+ TF just to have powerful console as XSX . Klee also said that XSX is slightly above 12 TF. He was right about that. Xbox fans get their 12 TF for XSX. Well, in the end PS5 is 10.3 TF :D I was even in HBM hype train because previous rumors.
DF wrote that MS is preparing a 12 TF console in January 2019 way before the klee guy. If you have seen previous console launches then this is basically nothing, just a few Xbox fans making some noise, Had MS presented a console with variable clock speeds and STILL worse GPU and CPU then you would have seen the internet explode.
 

wordslaughter

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MisterXDTV

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I just don't know what to say to people who believe temperature is irrelevant at 2.23GHz!

Do you know how many PC GPUs can sustain 2.23GHz?

ZERO
That's exactly the problem here: people always comparing to PC parts

This a console built for THIS. It isn't a PC for God's sake
 

Kagero

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Guys if you want the X boys to stop clowning you, just be honest and say you're completely content with the PS5 specs. Of course they are going to be dicks. The last 7 years have been very hard on them lol. Lets just be happy that both these systems will be amazing and move on. I'm embarrassed for you guys ( Sony bros) There's like 10 new threads a day trying to convince each other that that PS5 is going to be good. Let me tell you. It is going to be good. Jeez! The other place is more pleasant then GAF nowadays.
 

wordslaughter

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That's exactly the problem here: people always comparing to PC parts

This a console built for THIS. It isn't a PC for God's sake
Got it, the PS5 contains new magic parts with technology not possible in the PC space.

The most expensive, huge and liquid cooled Nvidia GPUs can't sustain 2.23Ghz ... but the PS5 surely can.

The most expensive, huge and liquid cooled AMD GPUs also can't sustain 2.23Ghz ... but the PS5 surely can.

The XSX GPU which is the EXACT SAME ARCHITECTURE can't sustain 2.23Ghz ... but the PS5 surely can.
 
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Jigga117

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I can only go by what was officially said. I'm not going to be trolled by silly forum baseless assumptions.

Anyway I'm out of this troll thread.
except your not accuratly pointing out what was said on video by the man and what we know. I have said this in the other threads you participated in. The system IS a 9.2TF that by Cerny's words "Boosted" which means overclocked. Which draws more power, more heat. What I don't get is if your goal was to target 10.28(which I believe they only did that due to MS) Why didn't you just put a chip in that did just that instead of boosting it? Just like it has been pointed out the XSX could have been "boosted" as well but they also go in to explaining clearly why the didn't which could have been a 14TF system.
 
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it_wasn't_me

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DF wrote that MS is preparing a 12 TF console in January 2019 way before the klee guy. If you have seen previous console launches then this is basically nothing, just a few Xbox fans making some noise, Had MS presented a console with variable clock speeds and STILL worse GPU and CPU then you would have seen the internet explode.
Klee said that both consoles are double digit TF and Navi in August last year

You mean January 2020.

Regarding DF, they never verified it until MS did it. DF ( Richard in this case ) after XSX reveal at TGA ( so, December ) asked MS is XSX 12 TF Navi or GCN ,but didn't get any confirmation on that. They assumed that it is TF 12 Navi because Phil Spencer said GPU performance is 2x of X1X 6 GCN TF. Here is the video.

 

MisterXDTV

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Got it, the PS5 contains new magic parts with technology not possible in the PC space.

The most expensive, huge and liquid cooled Nvidia GPUs can't sustain 2.23Ghz ... but the PS5 surely can.

The most expensive, huge and liquid cooled AMD GPUs also can't sustain 2.23Ghz ... but the PS5 surely can.

The XSX GPU which is the EXACT SAME ARCHITECTURE can't sustain 2.23Ghz ... but the PS5 surely can.
I know right, Cerny is an idiot who designed a console that can't even exist. He just lied about every number in the spec sheet.... :D
 

it_wasn't_me

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Even LIQUID COOLED PC GPU's can't run at that frequency. Are you expecting the PS5 cooler to surpass liquid cooling?
I dunno how PS5 cooling solution looks like. Maybe it is a highly effective one. That's why i gave you link and mentioned what Cerny said that we will see it later
 

it_wasn't_me

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Exactly, check our history messages, let them do the talking.
Specially those on (Next Gen Rumor Thread) when you trashed everybody & every leak that made the PS5 look less powerful on paper.
Keep it up 💋 (from Sony)
Yeah, and look what Phil Spencer nut huggers did after Reiners tweet and trying spreading the FUD. No Ray Tracing, PS5 is 8 TF and so on. Yuck!. Cheers!
 
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it_wasn't_me

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except your not accuratly pointing out what was said on video by the man and what we know. I have said this in the other threads you participated in. The system IS a 9.2TF that by Cerny's words "Boosted" which means overclocked. Which draws more power, more heat. What I don't get is if your goal was to target 10.28(which I believe they only did that due to MS) Why didn't you just put a chip in that did just that instead of boosting it? Just like it has been pointed out the XSX could have been "boosted" as well but they also go in to explaining clearly why the didn't which could have been a 14TF system.
Hi! I'm Mark Cerny. During the presentation at GDC i've mentioned that both GPU and CPU will be at peak frequency most of the time. Thanks!