• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Sony PSN Hacked [Major Update In OP, Stolen Info Detailed, Partly Up Within A Week]

Status
Not open for further replies.

FINALBOSS

Banned
Apr 23, 2010
3,801
0
0
Paris
I also love how people assume PSN has crappy security. How the fuck do you know any of that?

Based on the security of the PS3, I'd say Sony knows a thing or two about security.
 

Huff

Banned
Nov 10, 2010
5,835
0
0
Steve Youngblood said:
I personally think it has no bearing on the CFW scene.
I'm not particularly trying to get in a big argument over it, but I do personally think it negatively affects the Homebrew scene, and I bet more people think this way than you think.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Jan 2, 2007
39,633
1
0
Well, if lupinko says there's more to it, there's more to it. (This is not sarcasm, dude knows his shit)

Sony's probably going to take the kid gloves off when it comes to banning consoles from PSN, their retail/publishing partners would be furious if things like CoD map packs got to the masses for free. And yeah, their next console is going to be locked up tighter than ever.
 

Arklite

Member
Nov 30, 2010
3,709
1
0
Steve Youngblood said:
But their reaction affects everyone. I just don't understand how people can think this makes for good PR:
It doesn't make good PR, it never will. It's a corporation trying to hammer down intrusion. It isn't going to be pretty and it's going to affect users. You abuse something and you ruin the party for everyone else.
 

Seraphinianus

Banned
Sep 2, 2010
10,740
0
0
Forsete said:
The more bling the better, IMO. :)
Less devices needs to be hooked up to my TV if one device can do all the jobs.

PS3 was perfect at that, I expect PS4 to keep going that direction. Lets hope these attacks dont make things harder for us paying customers.

I felt that way until a few weeks ago. Consoles are just saturated. The whole experience is filled with little bumps in the road, thanks to online integration, media capabilities, and the attempt to allow installation of Linux. updates here, loading dashboards there, screwing with file conversion to play the console's *particular* file types, etc.

I like my ps2. DVD in to playing a game in a second.

i realize this is not going to go over so well here (and I am in this thread because I do have a CC on file with sony.)
 
Jun 7, 2004
14,567
1
1,470
FINALBOSS said:
Based on the security of the PS3, I'd say Sony knows a thing or two about security.
Yes, and if it never actually sank, the Titanic really would have been unsinkable. Your reputation in this field is only as good as your ability to prevent stuff like this -- you know, what this thread is about -- from happening.
 

HaRyu

Unconfirmed Member
Nov 7, 2007
3,247
0
0
FINALBOSS said:
I also love how people assume PSN has crappy security. How the fuck do you know any of that?

Based on the security of the PS3, I'd say Sony knows a thing or two about security.
You do know how people found out about the PS3 keys, right?
 

Rapstah

Member
Jul 20, 2009
13,183
0
0
How would hackers getting onto the developer Playstation Store make everyone's CC info available to them?
 

FINALBOSS

Banned
Apr 23, 2010
3,801
0
0
Paris
Steve Youngblood said:
Yes, and if it never actually sank, the Titanic really would have been unsinkable. Your reputation in this field is only as good as your ability to prevent stuff like this -- you know, what this thread is about -- from happening.

Not really.

Any group of determined and organized script kiddies can get anything done. It's just a matter of...being determined and organized. If they felt like going after XBL, they would have taken that down too.
 

Huff

Banned
Nov 10, 2010
5,835
0
0
Smision said:
I felt that way until a few weeks ago. Consoles are just saturated. The whole experience is filled with little bumps in the road, thanks to online integration, media capabilities, and the attempt to allow installation of Linux. updates here, loading dashboards there, screwing with file conversion to play the console's *particular* file types, etc.

I like my ps2. DVD in to playing a game in a second.

i realize this is not going to go over so well here (and I am in this thread because I do have a CC on file with sony.)
Thats just not the future of how consoles are going to be. All in one. Even butters your toast.
 

3rdman

Member
Jun 7, 2004
6,240
30
1,350
FINALBOSS said:
I also love how people assume PSN has crappy security. How the fuck do you know any of that?

Based on the security of the PS3, I'd say Sony knows a thing or two about security.
I'd say the opposite...Remember that the hackers completely dismantled the PS3 forcing Sony to swap all the keys with a new firmware.
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
Jun 7, 2004
23,301
28
1,660
www.dcharlie.com
So, people were busy doing all that stuff. Then Sony installed some of the CWF on one of their machines, just to test what it does. They run it, and manage to compromise their own network, and start shitting bricks. Sony then hopes nobody has done what they just did, and shut it all down to fix it.

So in the end, it was all Sony.

What a twist?
maybe not exactly like that, but i'm starting to think there was no hack attempt or sniffing or anything done.

Sony probably found a vulnerability - potentially one that DOES compromise peoples details - and chose to use the recent hacking noise as an excuse to take the system down. It's a risk issue - the damage of taking the system down for 2-3 weeks (whilst there's a fairly reasonable excuse) v.s. a potentially destructive franchise damaging security incident.

As i said earlier, if this IS what happened then Sony did exactly the right thing.
 
Jun 7, 2004
14,567
1
1,470
FINALBOSS said:
Any group of determined and organized script kiddies can get anything done. It's just a matter of...being determined and organized. If they felt like going after XBL, they would have taken that down too.
Then I would deride Microsoft for not protecting their service. If it happened to Valve? Yes, I would be critical there as well. Any company that provides a product that doesn't work deserves to be criticized for their product not working.
 

Seraphinianus

Banned
Sep 2, 2010
10,740
0
0
Sho_Nuff82 said:
Well, if lupinko says there's more to it, there's more to it. (This is not sarcasm, dude knows his shit)

Sony's probably going to take the kid gloves off when it comes to banning consoles from PSN, their retail partners would be furious if things like CoD map packs got to the masses for free. And yeah, their next console is going to be locked up tighter than ever.

remember when the PS3 was locked up tighter than ever?

and if Lupinko knows something, it'd be cool if he said something. I seem to remember reading that saying "teehee, i know something you guys don't know" was bannable. it's especially fucked up since Sony isn't giving out this info.

but I suppose that's all the hackers fault too
 

Arklite

Member
Nov 30, 2010
3,709
1
0
SapientWolf said:
Isn't this more of an issue of execrable security compounded by boneheaded mistakes? Linux isn't exactly associated with these type of problems.
Some argue that the whole Linux debacle is what has given the wrong kind of attention to Sony's security. I'm not saying its true, but I'm also not sure if we'd even be in this situation right now if Linux had never been an option in the first place. Perhaps a 'boneheaded' mistake could have been ever thinking users would use system access without considering piracy.
 
Jun 7, 2004
14,567
1
1,470
Arklite said:
Some argue that the whole Linux debacle is what has given the wrong kind of attention to Sony's security. I'm not saying its true, but I'm also not sure if we'd even be in this situation right now if Linux had never been an option in the first place. Perhaps a 'boneheaded' mistake could have been ever thinking users would use system access without considering piracy.
Their problem was that they cared too much. It's a tragedy, really.
 

Apenheul

Member
Feb 2, 2005
3,523
0
1,120
FINALBOSS said:
Based on the security of the PS3, I'd say Sony knows a thing or two about security.
My sarcasm detection fails.. PS3 has the worst security of any console of the last two generations.
 

railGUN

Banned
Nov 19, 2005
5,192
0
0
I really doubt Sony would wait for a holiday long weekend to completely shut down their network, world wide, with no warning of any kind, if they knew about this for weeks.
 

Hex

Banned
Nov 14, 2009
20,123
1
0
Florida
twitter.com
arnoldocastillo2003 said:
For my understanding that technique has been around for a while, even SONY knew of this, the thing is what hacker tried to do more with it.

This.
Yes sony was taking a beating by people leeching the store, but that would not be enough for them to pull the trigger on a holiday weekend with major releases to pull the entire network down.
It may be what they used to open the door, but this is more than people shoplifting from the PSN store.
They would address that, but not with this urgency.
 

Seraphinianus

Banned
Sep 2, 2010
10,740
0
0
Steve Youngblood said:
Their problem was that they cared too much. It's a tragedy, really.

lol I was trying to figure out if that's what he was saying.

on that note, i'll just wait for the update. people white knighting for corporations is just too crazy.
 

[Nintex]

Member
Jun 21, 2005
18,889
5
1,560
31
The Netherlands
www.n1ntendo.nl
FINALBOSS said:
Not really.

Any group of determined and organized script kiddies can get anything done. It's just a matter of...being determined and organized. If they felt like going after XBL, they would have taken that down too.
Microsoft, Valve and others deal with attacks like these as well. I've said it before, hackers are a known quantity and more shady folks get involved when there's money to be stolen. Sony did paint a big giant red bullseye on their system and company that said: "Hack me please" but hackers didn't magically pop up just to attack PSN.
 

Lothars

Member
Dec 5, 2008
10,594
0
0
Regina SK Canada
Apenheul said:
My sarcasm detection fails.. PS3 has the worst security of any console of the last two generations.
Not really, I would say the Wii or original Xbox has the worst security by far out of any console but PS3 doesn't have that bad of security.
 

AwakenedCloud

Member
Jul 12, 2007
3,759
0
0
Castor Krieg said:
Sure, let's post about it anyway and fuel the panic.
Of course, I should have ignored the fact that my credit card got used by someone who could be on the opposite end of the planet. Next time, I won't even bother cancelling the thing.
 

KernelPanic

Member
Apr 2, 2008
10,538
0
0
Canada
FINALBOSS said:
I also love how people assume PSN has crappy security. How the fuck do you know any of that?

Based on the security of the PS3, I'd say Sony knows a thing or two about security.
Security of the PS3 and security of their network is two different things (and is implemented by two different sets of people).
 

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
Mar 22, 2007
10,837
49
1,420
Lothars said:
Not really, I would say the Wii or original Xbox has the worst security by far out of any console but PS3 doesn't have that bad of security.
That may be true as far as software piracy goes but no console has had such a devestating breach of security since... ever? Piracy will always be there no matter what. But nobody has ever managed to take down a critical feature of a console that impacts the entire userbase before.
 

Apenheul

Member
Feb 2, 2005
3,523
0
1,120
Castor Krieg said:
Wii is piss-easy to soft-mod, X360 DVD flash takes 10 minutes.
In terms of security measures I meant, that's different from buffer overruns. On the PS3 side of course new firmware plugged the hole.
 

devildog820

Member
Apr 23, 2007
4,153
0
1,180
RSTEIN said:
That may be true as far as software piracy goes but no console has had such a devestating breach of security since... ever? Piracy will always be there no matter what. But nobody has ever managed to take down a critical feature of a console that impacts the entire userbase before.
True, but according to the hackers themselves, Sony patched it recently by changing the loader system. I didn't think they could recover, but they did.
 

Drek

Member
Jun 10, 2004
6,725
0
0
RSTEIN said:
That may be true as far as software piracy goes but no console has had such a devestating breach of security since... ever? Piracy will always be there no matter what. But nobody has ever managed to take down a critical feature of a console that impacts the entire userbase before.
Why do you assume hackers took down the network? It seems much more likely that hackers found exploits within the network and as an initial stopgap Sony shut it down themselves.

I work in the environmental remediation world. Often I'm forced to describe spills to people in terms of a milk carton being dropped on the floor. Shutting down the network is only Sony picking the carton up. Everything since has been sopping up the mess and finding a way to make sure the carton doesn't spill again.
 

Seraphinianus

Banned
Sep 2, 2010
10,740
0
0
Hex said:
Yet it took longer to hack than the wii, the 360, the psp, the ds, the xbox, the ps2?

that was literally because nobody cared about it. once the ball got rolling, it took about a minute to bust wide open.

THEY LEFT THE KEYS IN THE SYSTEM. people sign PSP games to run on official firmware.

wow.
 

TheRagnCajun

Member
Feb 23, 2007
7,227
0
0
Drek said:
Why do you assume hackers took down the network? It seems much more likely that hackers found exploits within the network and as an initial stopgap Sony shut it down themselves.

I work in the environmental remediation world. Often I'm forced to describe spills to people in terms of a milk carton being dropped on the floor. Shutting down the network is only Sony picking the carton up. Everything since has been sopping up the mess and finding a way to make sure the carton doesn't spill again.
There's a joke about spilt milk somewhere in there.
 

Rebel Leader

THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Jan 21, 2007
29,476
2
1,300
Hex said:
Yet it took longer to hack than the wii, the 360, the psp, the ds, the xbox, the ps2?

Because it had lynux on it. It actually took about the same as the xbox 360
 

Four_Chamber

Member
May 3, 2009
2,713
0
0
Hex said:
Yet it took longer to hack than the wii, the 360, the psp, the ds, the xbox, the ps2?
That's cause nobody cared to hack it until later. Once they started looking they were able to open up the PS3 easily. The PS3 is not some example of shining console security.
 

dock

Member
Oct 14, 2004
5,159
0
0
I had fraudulent use on my credit card registered with PSN today. :(

Could be coincidence, but someone was trying to use it with Netflix (!) - You can't even get Netflix in the UK. :/
 

lupinko

Member
Jul 26, 2007
19,530
2
0
Band on the Run
www.twitter.com
Four_Chamber said:
That's cause nobody cared to hack it. Once they started looking they were able to open up the PS3 easily.
Actually no, hackers only got to places with the service dongle jig was leaked.

IBM's security actually stands up to the test as that wasn't compromised, the issue was SCE's software (not using a random variable in the beginning for starters).

Basically the expensive security system stayed intact, but joe schmo was able to get in via the back door since the key was under the welcome mat.
 

Castor Krieg

Banned
Dec 5, 2007
7,983
0
0
Warsaw
Four_Chamber said:
That's cause nobody cared to hack it until later. Once they started looking they were able to open up the PS3 easily. The PS3 is not some example of shining console security.
It doesn't make a fucking sense. Nobody cared? Why would ppl care to hack a Wii or X360?
 

DR2K

Doesn't buy fighting games to actually play them
Jun 6, 2009
22,193
52
985
33
Houston
For it to be down this long, something big had to have happened.
 

Seraphinianus

Banned
Sep 2, 2010
10,740
0
0
lupinko said:
Basically the expensive security system stayed intact, but joe schmo was able to get in via the back door since the key was under the welcome mat.

aka shitty security.




Castor Krieg said:
It doesn't make a fucking sense. Nobody cared? Why would ppl care to hack a Wii or X360?

people seem to forget that it was a pretty pathetic system for a long while.
 

jorma

is now taking requests
Jun 4, 2007
11,893
0
1,135
Sweden
dock said:
I had fraudulent use on my credit card registered with PSN today. :(

Could be coincidence, but someone was trying to use it with Netflix (!) - You can't even get Netflix in the UK. :/
So i'm gonna have to pay attention to what charges are made on my CC now, sucks :/
 
Status
Not open for further replies.