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Sony Q3: Game Operating Income $53M (PS3/PS2 15.6M in 2012)

SoulPlaya

more money than God
If "Xbox Division" was actually just Xbox this would mean something.

And Sony has been in the red before this, you did a nice job of cherry-picking but this is great news.
To be fair, the rest of the things in the "Xbox division" likely hurt the division, not helped it. At least that's what I gathered from those threads.
 

nib95

Banned
Isn't Sony as a whole doing considerably better than last year? I'd say Kaz was doing a good job. On a side note, anyone know how much was spent on PS4 R&D, or is it not inferred in the graphs? Difficult for me to make proper sense of it all.
 

crinale

Member
To put it into perspective, Sony lost 20X that amount last year.

They've come a long way, and still have a long way to go. But it's looking better.

Yeah they have improved the situation a lot from what they used to be..
So Sir Stringer was not really a good corporate operator, or is it like what he had planned is finally showing some results?
 
LOL Vita isn't doing well but I laugh at everyone thinking Sony is just going to pull the plug when the PS4 launches.

Still a decent chance that they won't wait that long. There are at least two and likely three results releases to come before then, after all.

As I said above, they've already started characterizing the development of software for portable platforms that aren't Vita as part of their response to Vita's performance. A subtle rhetorical shift, but potentially a significant one.
 

Bsigg12

Member
If "Xbox Division" was actually just Xbox this would mean something.

And Sony has been in the red before this, you did a nice job of cherry-picking but this is great news.

Xbox division is also the Surface and Windows Phone. Explain how these two busts have helped this division make more money than Sony as a whole.
 

Shayan

Banned
Errr well this is the Sony thread, so it seems like you're doing the damage control around here.

You can bump your analyst thread with the new news if you want.

LOL. Had SONY sold even something close to 0.9m ps3s last quarter , they wouldn't have discontinued the product in January 2013. PS2 sales were abysmal and hence the product was discontinued

These figures mean that PS3 was the top selling console globally last quarter
 

Erethian

Member
Interesting to see what Media Create Sales GAF thinks of this. Already have a couple of them in here.

In what sense?

If it's their hardware presence in Japan, everything except for the 3DS sells from bad to terrible these days. As far as dedicated gaming hardware goes that market is going to end up concentrated more and more in a single device. Vita, not PS3/PS4, was Sony's best shot at stopping that, but from everything so far they've screwed up and are increasingly in an unrecoverable position.

Like how at a certain point the Gamecube was never going to stage a comeback, only worse.
 

meta4

Junior Member
Isn't Sony as a whole doing considerably better than last year? I'd say Kaz was doing a good job. On a side note, anyone know how much was spent on PS4 R&D, or is it not inferred in the graphs? Difficult for me to make proper sense of it all.

Yes. They are doing much better.
 

Wynnebeck

Banned
If "Xbox Division" was actually just Xbox this would mean something.

And Sony has been in the red before this, you did a nice job of cherry-picking but this is great news.

lol This report is going to be cherry-picked the entire time. Even if there was something positive to gleam from this pretty mediocre report, someone would be there to slap it down and tell you why it's wrong. Might as well gain what info you can and buckle up.
 

yurinka

Member
This is a sales forecast. Those games are not "attractive" in the sense of moving large quantities of hardware, which is and always has been Vita's fundamental problem.
yep.
I edited the post about Vita, I think it needs more great games and a price cut. Some awesome connectivity with PS4 would help a lot too. Things that will likely come naturally, I'm sure they'll address when needed and possible.
Kaz had a lot of bigger issues in Sony (most of them outside gaming), and seems that they're going in the right direction.
 

cvxfreak

Member
Seems like a semi-educated one. If PS2 sales are basically nothing, then the PS3 sold a whole lot better than figures suggest which is unlikely.

However this is based on regions where we know PS3 sales... There are plenty of big ones which are unclear.

So yeah, pretty much still "who knows" time.

There is evidence that PS3 sold less in 2012 than 2011 in the major sales regions (NA/JP/EU), but if I recall correctly, there is also evidence that the PS2 also declined in those same regions.

So the assumption is left to the rest of the world. Did PS3 sales fall and PS2 sales rise, or did PS2 sales fall and PS3 sales rise?
 
If "Xbox Division" was actually just Xbox this would mean something.

And Sony has been in the red before this, you did a nice job of cherry-picking but this is great news.

Yes because the entertainment and services divisions is pumping out those hits like surface and windows phone and let's say the ghost of Zune. I'd say its safe to say that most if not all of that profit from the Xbox. Sony really needs the PS4 to be huge not just the leader but the clear leader.
 
Kaz is slowly moving things into the right direction. PSV is out at the wrong time. This should have been the PSP. SCE is going all in with PS4.
 
To be fair, the rest of the things in the "Xbox division" likely hurt the division, not helped it. At least that's what I gathered from those threads.

Xbox division is also the Surface and Windows Phone. Explain how these two busts have helped this division make more money than Sony as a whole.

Yes because the entertainment and services divisions is pumping out those hits like surface and windows phone and let's say the ghost of Zune. I'd say its safe to say that most if not all of that profit from the Xbox. Sony really needs the PS4 to be huge not just the leader but the clear leader.


First, are you talking revenue or profit?
 

Miles X

Member
LOL. Had SONY sold even something close to 0.9m ps3s last quarter , they wouldn't have discontinued the product in January 2013. PS2 sales were abysmal and hence the product was discontinued

These figures mean that PS3 was the top selling consoles globally last quarter

Sony even say in the release 'Overall segment sales decreased significantly due to lower sales of hardware and software of PS3 and PSP, partially offset by PSVita'
 

B.O.O.M

Member
Isn't Sony as a whole doing considerably better than last year? I'd say Kaz was doing a good job. On a side note, anyone know how much was spent on PS4 R&D, or is it not inferred in the graphs? Difficult for me to make proper sense of it all.

Yep the situation is much better so it's going in the right direction.

I would liek to know the R&D amounts as well but I don't think it's listed
 

big youth

Member
LOL Vita isn't doing well but I laugh at everyone thinking Sony is just going to pull the plug when the PS4 launches.

if Sony thinks Vita is salvageable, don't you think they would have cut the price months ago when it still had a fighting chance? or at the latest, before the holiday? Vita is dead in the eyes of publishers, and it's probably dead in the eyes of retailers too. It's not up to Sony any more. after Tearaway and PS4, the Vita will be silently discontinued.
 
There is evidence that PS3 sold less in 2012 than 2011 in the major sales regions (NA/JP/EU), but if I recall correctly, there is also evidence that the PS2 also declined in those same regions.

So the assumption is left to the rest of the world. Did PS3 sales fall and PS2 sales rise, or did PS2 sales fall and PS3 sales rise?

Both PS2 sales and PS3 sales could have fallen at the same time. One more than the other.

Anywhere from 6.2M - 6.5M is a conservative estimate for PS3 sales.
 
Doesn't really matter but Surface is in the Windows division, not the EDD.

Bad quarter for Sony's gaming unit, pretty good quarter for the company as a whole.
 
There is evidence that PS3 sold less in 2012 than 2011 in the major sales regions (NA/JP/EU), but if I recall correctly, there is also evidence that the PS2 also declined in those same regions.

So the assumption is left to the rest of the world. Did PS3 sales fall and PS2 sales rise, or did PS2 sales fall and PS3 sales rise?

The problem is we don't know. I suspect the PS3 does quite well in Australia for example... But that is all anecdotal.

You can make a decent guess to support either outcome.
 

cvxfreak

Member
Sony even say in the release 'Overall segment sales decreased significantly due to lower sales of hardware and software of PS3 and PSP, partially offset by PSVita'

So how much part did the PSP play? PSP was down in 2012 by 1.1 million in its best (?) territory, Japan.
 

Duxxy3

Member
From what i can gather...

PSV is uber bomba
PS3 outsold the 360 world wide by a good amount last year and will take second place this generation

still a far cry from where they were 7 years ago
 
Yes because the entertainment and services divisions is pumping out those hits like surface and windows phone and let's say the ghost of Zune. I'd say its safe to say that most if not all of that profit from the Xbox. Sony really needs the PS4 to be huge not just the leader but the clear leader.
Skype and Mac Office are also in the division iirc.
 

Shayan

Banned
Both PS2 sales and PS3 sales could have fallen at the same time. One more than the other.

Anywhere from 6.2M - 6.5M is a conservative estimate for PS3 sales.

exactly

This is pretty obvious that slim ps3 was launched across europe which proved to be a success going by most sales threads. And at the same time , ps2 was discontinued for just the opposite reason

Sales in such context refers to revenue.

also it refers to combined segment revenue which will fall since everything sans PS3 fell last quarter
 
if Sony thinks Vita is salvageable, don't you think they would have cut the price months ago when it still had a fighting chance? or at the latest, before the holiday? Vita is dead in the eyes of publishers, and it's probably dead in the eyes of retailers too. It's not up to Sony any more. after Tearaway and PS4, the Vita will be silently discontinued.

Unless the Vita integrates closely with the PS4 which to my mind it is almost certain to do.

Not saying it will help at all, but to me this is the reason Sony is yet to drop the price. If anything the poor Vita performance might be pushing the PS4 release forward.
 

Miles X

Member
Sales in such context refers to revenue.

'Lower sales of hardware' speaks for itself.

exactly

This is pretty obvious that slim ps3 was launched across europe which proved to be a success going by most sales threads. And at the same time , ps2 was discontinued for just the opposite reason

Yeah huge success, lets ignore that sales to consumers were down in Europe all holiday eh ...

From what i can gather...

PSV is uber bomba
PS3 outsold the 360 world wide by a good amount last year and will take second place this generation

still a far cry from where they were 7 years ago

Actually funnily enough, I think Japan + Europe + US shows a smaller gap this year than last, would have to check.
 
if Sony thinks Vita is salvageable, don't you think they would have cut the price months ago when it still had a fighting chance? or at the latest, before the holiday? Vita is dead in the eyes of publishers, and it's probably dead in the eyes of retailers too. It's not up to Sony any more. after Tearaway and PS4, the Vita will be silently discontinued.

I really don't understand how anyone can still believe that Sony has some secret plan to save it.

They couldn't afford to cut the price before the holidays in the West, when it had the best chance of helping; they certainly can't shift first-party development away from consoles with the PS4 launch rapidly approaching (and even then, it's far from guaranteed that Sony's top studios are capable of making a game that could sell well in the current handheld market); and they don't have the necessary leverage over third parties to secure exclusives (and, as far as Western third parties are concerned, see the previous parentheses).

They have yet to respond to Vita's sales with any great urgency, because a response by definition involves solutions (or at least potential solutions) and Sony simply doesn't have any.
 

big youth

Member
Unless the Vita integrates closely with the PS4 which to my mind it is almost certain to do.

Not saying it will help at all, but to me this is the reason Sony is yet to drop the price. If anything the poor Vita performance might be pushing the PS4 release forward.

I agree Vita might be integrated with PS4 in some way, but I haven't spent any time considering how it would work. I only know using Vita as a controller wouldn't work too well. I agree that Vita's performance could be hurrying PS4 along.
 

antonz

Member
Sony really should just consider stepping out of the handheld market. Hell it would probably be more profitable for them to have studios make 3DS games.
 

cvxfreak

Member
'Lower sales of hardware' speaks for itself.

Wrong. The same passage in Japanese reads:

2011 年 12 月に導入した PlayStation®Vita の売上が計上されたものの、「プレイステーション 3」(以下「PS3®」)ならびにPSP®「プレイステーション・ポータブル」(以下「PSP®」)のハードウエア及びソフトウエアの減収により、分野全体で大幅減収となりました。

減収 = decrease in income
 

big youth

Member
I really don't understand how anyone can still believe that Sony has some secret plan to save it.

They couldn't afford to cut the price before the holidays in the West, when it had the best chance of helping; they certainly can't shift first-party development away from consoles with the PS4 launch rapidly approaching (and even then, it's far from guaranteed that Sony's top studios are capable of making a game that could sell well in the current handheld market); and they don't have the necessary leverage over third parties to secure exclusives (and, as far as Western third parties are concerned, see the previous parentheses).

They have yet to respond to Vita's sales with any great urgency, because a response involves potential solutions and Sony simply doesn't have any.

Well said. the only thing that gives me pause is how heavily Vita was advertised Nov/Dec of last year. it contradicts my idea that Sony is letting Vita die as silently as possible, without more sunk costs. They clearly spent a pretty penny doing all that advertising.
 

Razdek

Banned
Unless the Vita integrates closely with the PS4 which to my mind it is almost certain to do.

Not saying it will help at all, but to me this is the reason Sony is yet to drop the price. If anything the poor Vita performance might be pushing the PS4 release forward.

If Sony's big plan to rescue the Vita is to wait until PS4 is released and then do some super duper secret integration stuff with it then they are dumb. People with PS3's are buying it right now and I think people who buy PS4's won't buy it either as they'll be more interested in the PS4 games.
 
If "Xbox Division" was actually just Xbox this would mean something.

And Sony has been in the red before this, you did a nice job of cherry-picking but this is great news.

All you did was point out how much more impressive the Xbox division is doing since it's carrying a bunch of loser divisions with it and still making more money than all of Sony made.
 
I agree Vita might be integrated with PS4 in some way, but I haven't spent any time considering how it would work. I only know using Vita as a controller wouldn't work too well. I agree that Vita's performance could be hurrying PS4 along.

Streaming PS4 games via Gaikai wiiu style. A bit clunky with the R2, L2 etc but very possible.

If it worked (big if but playing along for now) it would be a big boost for the Vita's value proposition. At least they would give it a good crack.

If Sony's big plan to rescue the Vita is to wait until PS4 is released and then do some super duper secret integration stuff with it then they are dumb. People with PS3's are buying it right now and I think people who buy PS4's won't buy it either as they'll be more interested in the PS4 games.

Hence streaming PS4 games. Play U4 in bed... That type of stuff. Remote play was a good idea and I doubt Sony has completely given up on it ... it just didn't actually work.
 
All you did was point out how much more impressive the Xbox division is doing since it's carrying a bunch of loser divisions with it and still making more money than all of Sony made.

Will you answer then, Revenue or profit or both?

Either way its again a cherry-pick. The news here is that Sony is firmly back in the black...
 

AOC83

Banned
Sony failing at selling the Vita to a 70 millions fanbase remains a mistery.
There is no 70 million fanbase for a Sony handheld. PSP numbers were greatly inflated by the stronger brand name, piracy and the absence of smartphones.

A price cut would have done it, yet it still seems unlikely to be in the plans.
The Vita is widely available for 199 € including a game. In the last months it was discounted several times ( 3G 150€, WiFi + game 150€), it did absolutely nothing.
The Vita is a completely uninteresting platform for most people and should be canned immediately from a business point of view.
 
Except that they discontinued it and the trajectory has shown decreasing sales every year. Who is the one reaching?.

Yeah, his argument is internally inconsistent. Sales are trending down, therefore PS3 sales must be down, but that also requires PS2 sales to have gone up, in the same quarter they literally stopped making them. That's a lot of effort to deny a difference of about 400K in PS3 sales.
 
So by the time the new consoles come out maybe Sony will finally be in second place. Not really something to celebrate when you see where they came from.
Microsoft seems to have its Xbox ducks in a row. However Sony will have to avoid a third fucked up launch in a row. And they can't keep selling off buildings to stop the bleeding.
 

hirokazu

Member
PS3 sales look pretty good to me. At least 6.0m, even if you give a rather high estimate of 0.8m for PS2. Probably closer to 6.2-6.3m, I'd say.

The bundling of PS2/PS3 is going to be really damn annoying for GAF analysts when the PS4 comes along and they start doing PS3/PS4. That's probably what they planned all along, both to shield investors away from PSVita numbers and in case PS4 is a similar disaster.
 
They had a $124 million net loss this quarter. How is that firmly back in the black?

I don't think that's accurate. The game division did poorly, but Sony Pictures did great due to Starfall and a few big rental/disc releases in the quarter.

I hope they announce something great that ties the Vita to the PS4 during their announcement, otherwise they're just sitting back waiting for Vita to completely die.
 
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