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Sony Q3: Game Operating Income $53M (PS3/PS2 15.6M in 2012)

spwolf

Member
Shows how much I was paying attention:



This is good news, potentially.

they didnt book those yet.. at least not significantly... if they stay up until end of Q4, they will get to book 1.5bil in extra profits as they keep overestimating current value of yen.

as to other folks, operating profit means operating profit.
 
Like I said previously in this thread, Sony needs to come up with solutions for the Vita's lack of sales soon.

They don't have solutions. They had none last year other than praying for a COD/AC miracle in the West, and they have none this year other than praying for a Soul Sacrifice miracle in Japan and, I guess, an even more improbable Killzone/Tearaway miracle elsewhere.
 

snap0212

Member
Wasn't PSV + PSP original forecast something like 16m? How can they be that far off with their expectations ... 9m!
Would you mind clearing up what I was asking in my previous question. Probably got buried on the previous page. :(

Stop the damage control, it includes at least 1m PS2's, it didn't drop that much and pretty much all info on sales we have says no to the 77m.
Where did you get the 1m PS2 number from? That seems unbelievably high, to be honest and wouldn't make sense if we look at the development of PS2 sales. Is that info hidden somewhere?"

I did some more google searches but really can't figure out how you come to the conclusion of "at least 1 million". There's just zero indication that this number could be true. Please clarify what sources you used or what developments you looked at to come to this result.
 
Sony should just kill the Vaio. Why the hell are they producing it anyway? There are much better and cheaper alternatives.

I agree on price but much better ? Vaio are probably the nicest looking and most solid laptops on the market. Their design is simply the best, classy looking.

Even Samsung, which is "considered" one of the bests, doesn't have a nice looking laptop. Their best bet was their ultrabook super slim laptop but was so cheaply built, buttons and trackpad felt like utter shit.

I think Sony needs more focus on their products, there's just too many of them and prices vary so much... it's confusing for the average consumer. Make it like Apple, 2-3 models and keep it simple.
 
The numbers aren't crazy good, but a profits a profit I guess.

I really wish the Vita would catch on. Love that thing to death, but it really needs some software that makes use of that lovely hardware.
 

Biggzy

Member
They don't have solutions. They had none last year other than praying for a COD/AC miracle in the West, and they have none this year other than praying for a Soul Sacrifice miracle in Japan and, I guess, an even more improbable Killzone/Tearaway miracle elsewhere.

I did write that I looked at their software line-up and I couldn't see a title that would make people go out and get a Vita. So that leaves price and are Sony prepared to lower it substantially where they begin to take a sizable hit from each one sold? Then you have possible greater unity between the Vita and the PS4.
 
Where did you get the 1m PS2 number from? That seems unbelievably high, to be honest and wouldn't make sense if we look at the development of PS2 sales. Is that info hidden somewhere?"

I did some more google searches but really can't figure out how you come to the conclusion of "at least 1 million". There's just zero indication that this number could be true. Please clarify what sources you used or what developments you looked at to come to this result.

He must mean 1m PS2s out of the 13.1m recorded for "Home Consoles" not 1m PS2s for the quarter. If Dynopia thinks it's the latter then he needs his head examining.
 
SCE having operating profits even with the failure of Vita coupled with R&D costs lead associated with being this close to the PS4 launch is kind of surprising. Not bad at all really.
 

spwolf

Member
I agree on price but much better ? Vaio are probably the nicest looking and most solid laptops on the market. Their design is simply the best, classy looking.

Even Samsung, which is "considered" one of the bests, doesn't have a nice looking laptop. Their best bet was their ultrabook super slim laptop but was so cheaply built, buttons and trackpad felt like utter shit.

I think Sony needs more focus on their products, there's just too many of them and prices vary so much... it's confusing for the average consumer. Make it like Apple, 2-3 models and keep it simple.

i dont think Vaio is losing them a lot of money, it is just that they dropped sales while Mobile went up... Mobile is probably losing a lot of money since they are investing a lot into R&D to raise their sales so much. As much as I remember from last presentation, they are hoping for profit in mobile by next FY.
 
SCE having operating profits even with the failure of Vita coupled with R&D costs lead associated with being this close to the PS4 launch is kind of surprising. Not bad at all really.

Yeah it's quite good. Hopefully the extent of the figures (namely the reduction in loss of other departments) is the beginnings of the Kaz effect.
 
i dont think Vaio is losing them a lot of money, it is just that they dropped sales while Mobile went up... Mobile is probably losing a lot of money since they are investing a lot into R&D to raise their sales so much. As much as I remember from last presentation, they are hoping for profit in mobile by next FY.

No they mention significantly lower Vaio sales as a reason for depressed earnings in the division.

Smartphone sales are up 45%YoY for Sony, admittedly from a low base and the also ASP is up.
 
I would be surprised if PS2 sold over 1.5m tbh, Sony were really winding it down last year.
Possibly.

I thought I'd try using the last three years prior (CY2009-2011) to extrapolate the number we have for Q1CY2012 to the other quarters for CY2012.

Code:
PS2	Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	Q2->Q4
Average	1.43	1.53	1.53	1.70	
Ratio		1.07	1.07	1.19	
CY12	0.60	0.64	0.64	0.71	2.00
					
PS3	Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	Q2->Q4
Average	1.97	1.77	3.47	6.43	
Ratio		0.90	1.76	3.27	
CY12	1.90	1.71	3.35	6.22	11.27

PS3+PS2	2.50	2.35	3.99	6.93	13.27

Actual		2.80	3.50	6.80	13.10

It actually ends up relatively close in terms of PS3+PS2.
 

spwolf

Member
No they mention significantly lower Vaio sales as a reason for depressed earnings in the division.

Smartphone sales are up 45%YoY for Sony, admittedly from a low base and the also ASP is up.

its really not that clear (which is red/black), but while looking for that i found:

In the digital imaging and the game businesses, which are positioned as core areas of the electronics
businesses along with the mobile businesses, the shrinking market for compact digital cameras, due to the
expansion of the smartphone market, and the slow penetration of the PlayStation®Vita portable entertainment
platform are recognized as particularly important issues. Sony is working to improve profitability through
reinforcement of its high value added products that are differentiated by the use of highly competitive image
sensors developed by Sony. In the game business, Sony is working to expand sales and operating income
through the introduction of an attractive software lineup and through offering game software on mobile
devices, including smartphones and tablets.


Gaikai? Dunno what else could it be.
 
Possibly.

I thought I'd try using the last three years prior (CY2009-2011) to extrapolate the number we have for Q1CY2012 to the other quarters for CY2012.

Code:
PS2	Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	Q2->Q4
Average	1.43	1.53	1.53	1.70	
Ratio		1.07	1.07	1.19	
CY12	0.60	0.64	0.64	0.71	2.00
					
PS3	Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	Q2->Q4
Average	1.97	1.77	3.47	6.43	
Ratio		0.90	1.76	3.27	
CY12	1.90	1.71	3.35	6.22	11.27

PS3+PS2	2.50	2.35	3.99	6.93	13.27

Actual		2.80	3.50	6.80	13.10

It actually ends up relatively close in terms of PS3+PS2.

That assumes constant sales at the average, when the trend has been a downward one.

Looking at the trend here:

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdataps2_sale_e.html

It's clear that in 2011 the PS2 finished up, look at the YoY drops for H2, it's 1.5m shipped down from 3.3m, if that trend carried through, and I don't see any reason for it not to, it would indicate PS2 sales of 0.6m, 0.5m and 0.4m for the three quarters of this year. That's why I think 1.5m is a decent figure to work from. Next quarter will be the final shipment for PS2, and it won't be very large, maybe a 200k or less, whatever inventory they have left.

Gaikai? Dunno what else could it be.

PS-Mobile.
 

Basch

Member
PS3/PS2 Worldwide Unit Sales (Sell-in / Unit: Million)
Code:
Hardware      Ap-Jn     Jl-Sp    Oc-Dc    Ja-Mr     FY        FCT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FY 2012/13     2.8       3.5      6.8       -       13.1      16.0 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LTD (as of March 31,2012) --> PS3 63.9  / PS2 155.1

Latest PS2 Sales Figures (Ap'11 - Mr'12) : 1.4 -> 1.2 -> 0.9 -> 0.6

This is where I got the numbers from. PS3's LTD was last reported at the end of September (70.2 mil), which should account for Q2. Since then Q3's PS3/PS2 sales are reported to be 6.8 mil. Looking at the the sales for the PS2 between Ap'11 - Mr'12, I noticed Q3's sales in 2011 was 0.9 million. Granted, the PS2 has been on a downward trend, I reasoned that there was probably a small spike again for the holidays anywhere from 0.5-0.9 (I chose 0.8 -- guess). So I took my educated guess for PS2's Q3 sales and subtracted it from the total sales for Q3 this year for PS3/PS2: 6.8 - 0.8 = 6.0.

This number hypothetically tells me how many PS3's were sold during Q3. The last reported figure was 70.2 at the end of Q2. So I added this difference to the figure to come out with the current LTD: 70.2 + 6.0 = 76.2 (I rounded down because I was lazy). Hence 76 mil.
 

onQ123

Member
its really not that clear (which is red/black), but while looking for that i found:


Gaikai? Dunno what else could it be.

PlayStation Mobile

8047178033_e2482299f2.jpg
 
That assumes constant sales at the average, when the trend has been a downward one.

Looking at the trend here:

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdataps2_sale_e.html

It's clear that in 2011 the PS2 finished up, look at the YoY drops for H2, it's 1.5m shipped down from 3.3m, if that trend carried through, and I don't see any reason for it not to, it would indicate PS2 sales of 0.6m, 0.5m and 0.4m for the three quarters of this year. That's why I think 1.5m is a decent figure to work from. Next quarter will be the final shipment for PS2, and it won't be very large, maybe a 200k or less, whatever inventory they have left.
Oh. I don't doubt that. I just thought it would be interesting.

I think the overestimate for the PS2+PS3 in the extrapolation probably comes from the PS2. Probably something ~1.7M for PS2 for the 9 month period is my guess for a PS3 LTD of 75.3M.
PS3's LTD was last reported at the end of September (70.2 mil)
PS3's LTD was last officially reported at 31st March 2012. And then in November - as passing 70M - but just in a milestone PR release.
 
It's doing pretty well in Europe. SCEA are just completely useless in pushing mobile content, I just don't think they get it.

Is it that hard to get rid of that regional "semi autonomous" bullshit since it has done nothing for them. Especially with all the talks of working together as a cohesive unit being one of the tentpole changes they were pushing.
 

Shayan

Banned
This is where I got the numbers from. PS3's LTD was last reported at the end of September (70.2 mil), which should account for Q2. Since then Q3's PS3/PS2 sales are reported to be 6.8 mil. Looking at the the sales for the PS2 between Ap'11 - Mr'12, I noticed Q3's sales in 2011 was 0.9 million. Granted, the PS2 has been on a downward trend, I reasoned that there was probably a small spike again for the holidays anywhere from 0.5-0.9 (I chose 0.8 -- guess). So I took my educated guess for PS2's Q3 sales and subtracted it from the total sales for Q3 this year for PS3/PS2: 6.8 - 0.8 = 6.0.

This number hypothetically tells me how many PS3's were sold during Q3. The last reported figure was 70.2 at the end of Q2. So I added this difference to the figure to come out with the current LTD: 70.2 + 6.0 = 76.2 (I rounded down because I was lazy). Hence 76 mil.

you are dead on but i feel PS2 sales were much lower. I mean they stopped producing it from jan 2013. a good estimate would be 500k~ but could be even lower who knows

I think the overestimate for the PS2+PS3 in the extrapolation probably comes from the PS2. Probably something ~1.7M for PS2 for the 9 month period is my guess for

Had the number been close to even a million for ps2 , then SONY wouldnt have stopped its production.

PS3 is easily over 76m last quarter
 
Oh. I don't doubt that. I just thought it would be interesting.

I think the overestimate for the PS2+PS3 in the extrapolation probably comes from the PS2. Probably something ~1.7M for PS2 for the 9 month period is my guess for a PS3 LTD of 75.3M.

Yeah, I think that's not a bad shout. I do think "Home console" shipments will be down next quarter, I think we're looking at around 1.5m for both, but the PS2 shipment won't account for very much of it. We will also have a thread about whether Sony still include PS2 shipments because they won't call it PS3 shipments, they will still keep the "Computer Entertainment System" title. I'm sure about that.

Is it that hard to get rid of that regional "semi autonomous" bullshit since it has done nothing for them. Especially with all the talks of working together as a cohesive unit being one of the tentpole changes they were pushing.

Who knows, with Sony anything is possible.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Shayan said:
Had the number been close to even a million for ps2 , then SONY wouldnt have stopped its production.

I agree, and I also think that the termination of the product would have been preceded well in advance by reductions in manufacturing scale. Meaning that shipment sizes would diminish not just as a result of falling demand, but also as a result of limited supply/inventory.

They'd ramp it down, quarter by quarter.
 
It's doing pretty well in Europe. SCEA are just completely useless in pushing mobile content, I just don't think they get it.

I'm not sure I agree that it's doing well in Europe. The game selection is paltry with less than 100 games, weekly new releases are few, maybe 1 or 2 new games a week, iOS/Android developers aren't really developing anything for it, non gaming apps are non existent, prices are too high compared to the competition on iOS/android.

IMHO PSM is a bust, the fact that they say "In the game business, Sony is working to expand sales and operating income through the introduction of an attractive software lineup and through offering game software on mobile devices, including smartphones and tablets." suggests to me that either they plan on making a major move on the initiative to try to compete with iOS/google play or, more likely, they have no idea what they are talking about, are overestimating the initiative, and think what they are offering now on it is sufficient. Much like what happened with the PSP+Vita's forecast. They completely overestimated it and thought what they had out was sufficient.
 

Elios83

Member
This number hypothetically tells me how many PS3's were sold during Q3. The last reported figure was 70.2 at the end of Q2. So I added this difference to the figure to come out with the current LTD: 70.2 + 6.0 = 76.2 (I rounded down because I was lazy). Hence 76 mil.

No, PS3 hit 70m at the end of October (with a PR relased on November 4th). Not at the end of Q2 (September).
It's the same mistake that IDC did in their report.

So to get PS3 LTD numbers we have to:
1)Add 6.8m to 70m = 76.8m
2)Subtract what PS2 has sold during the October-December quarter, which considering the amount of units shipped last year, downward trends for all the consoles and the fact that it was discontinued because there isn't anymore demand for it, accounts for 0.4-0.5m and then we get: 76.3-76.4m
3)Subtract whatever PS3 has shipped during October. This is the hardest thing to guess. Considering that the new Slim definetly replaced the old Slim in November (at least in Europe the market was flooded with 12GB units in mid November) it seems realistic to think that 1m-1.5m out of the 6.3m shipped in the quarter were shipped during October.
4)So we're left with an estimated LTD of 74.9m-75.4m at the end of 2012. Which gives us the idea the PS3 should be really close to the 360 at this point, possibly even less than 1m close.


its really not that clear (which is red/black), but while looking for that i found:




Gaikai? Dunno what else could it be.

Sony executives already said that Gaikai is not just a Playstation thing but it's about bringing Playstation games to different platforms. So they're probably planning to make a subscription service for non-Playstation hardware owners (Android tablets and smartphones mainly) aimed at playing though streaming certain Playstation titles and software library.
 

Orca

Member
So next quarter are they going to bundle the PS3/PSP/Vita together under a 'gaming hardware' catchall?
 
I'm not sure I agree that it's doing well in Europe. The game selection is paltry with less than 100 games, weekly new releases are few, maybe 1 or 2 new games a week, iOS/Android developers aren't really developing anything for it, non gaming apps are non existent, prices are too high compared to the competition on iOS/android.

IMHO PSM is a bust, the fact that they say "In the game business, Sony is working to expand sales and operating income through the introduction of an attractive software lineup and through offering game software on mobile devices, including smartphones and tablets." suggests to me that either they plan on making a major move on the initiative to try to compete with iOS/google play or, more likely, they have no idea what they are talking about, are overestimating the initiative, and think what they are offering now on it is sufficient. Much like what happened with the PSP+Vita's forecast. They completely overestimated it and thought what they had out was sufficient.

Nah, you have to be here, it it a relative success, the expansion isn't as fast as it should be, but it's not bad.

As for the quote, it really could be either, again, one never knows when it comes to Sony.
 
This number hypothetically tells me how many PS3's were sold during Q3. The last reported figure was 70.2 at the end of Q2. So I added this difference to the figure to come out with the current LTD: 70.2 + 6.0 = 76.2 (I rounded down because I was lazy). Hence 76 mil.

This is off though.

Sony announced they surpassed 70 million shipped in November.

Which would be after a huge portion of their pre-Christmas stock-up shipping.

Meaning that the 6.0 million guess can't be added even to 70 million.

Several million potentially of that 6.0 would have shipped in October... or even potentially the first few days of November before Sony announced their 70 million surpassed.

It's why they are being so vague now.. not because they surpassed MS. Should be obvious.

Quick question: Do you post at WCG? :troll:
 

jcm

Member
The earnings call transcript is up. Not much about gaming, BASICALLY just this:

Thirdly, gaming. Now one thing clear for us that in terms of profitability, we have to do a better job in promoting the PlayStation Vita mobile product. How do we do that? Well, gaming business software is the name of the game. So as a fundamental measure, we are putting all -- a lot of resources, not just first party, but also asking third parties to put out more attractive software. That's the basics. The other thing, well, marketing, pricing of the product, et cetera, I cannot talk about pricing of this platform, but those are the things that we are looking into to improve our profitability in the mobile handheld gaming business. Now PS3, in its sixth year, I think it still has a long life. And here, we're not in the stage where we are losing money in the hardware anymore. So again, there are discussions about the next platform, I cannot dwell on that at all at the moment. But in any case, we have a lot of business in PS3. Now to give you an indication of how, well, stable this business is, although we have reduced forecast on many of our product lines from television, digital still cameras and, et cetera, but mobile phones and home game devices, we have not changed the forecast on these for this fiscal year. So that I hope will give an indication of our confidence in this platform going forward.
 
This is where I got the numbers from. PS3's LTD was last reported at the end of September (70.2 mil), which should account for Q2. Since then Q3's PS3/PS2 sales are reported to be 6.8 mil. Looking at the the sales for the PS2 between Ap'11 - Mr'12, I noticed Q3's sales in 2011 was 0.9 million. Granted, the PS2 has been on a downward trend, I reasoned that there was probably a small spike again for the holidays anywhere from 0.5-0.9 (I chose 0.8 -- guess). So I took my educated guess for PS2's Q3 sales and subtracted it from the total sales for Q3 this year for PS3/PS2: 6.8 - 0.8 = 6.0.

This number hypothetically tells me how many PS3's were sold during Q3. The last reported figure was 70.2 at the end of Q2. So I added this difference to the figure to come out with the current LTD: 70.2 + 6.0 = 76.2 (I rounded down because I was lazy). Hence 76 mil.


Actually it wasn't. Q2 ended in September. The 70 million number was reported at the start of November.

The guesswork is how much shipments differ between the months. (ramping up for Black friday and christmas.) So when and by how much is the quarters numbers represented. Even as such since the numbers were reported at the "start" of November it isn't too crazy to imagine that the PS3 represents a large portion of the shipment numbers.

Edit: beaten

No, PS3 hit 70m at the end of October (with a PR relased on November 4th). Not at the end of Q2 (September).
It's the same mistake that IDC did in their report.

So to get PS3 LTD numbers we have to:
1)Add 6.8m to 70m = 76.8m
2)Subtract what PS2 has sold during the October-December quarter, which considering the amount of units shipped last year, downward trends for all the consoles and the fact that it was discontinued because there isn't anymore demand for it, accounts for 0.4-0.5m and then we get: 76.3-76.4m
3)Subtract whatever PS3 has shipped during October. This is the hardest thing to guess. Considering that the new Slim definetly replaced the old Slim in November (at least in Europe the market was flooded with 12GB units in mid November) it seems realistic to think that 1m-1.5m out of the 6.3m shipped in the quarter were shipped during October.
4)So we're left with an estimated LTD of 74.9m-75.4m at the end of 2012. Which gives us the idea the PS3 should be really close to the 360 at this point, possibly even less than 1m close.

Sounds reasonable.

It is obvious he means the former we just have to read what he wrote.

PS3 LTD as of March 31st: 63.9m
PS3+PS2 sales from April to December: 13.1m

63.9 + 13.1 = 77m

Thus, the only way the PS3 is at 77m as IDC said, is if PS2 shipments since April have been zero. Dynopia is claiming they are at least 1 million and concluding the PS3 is at 76m at best.

Whether he's right or not, we can't know.

I thought he meant just for the quarter. If he meant for the past several months then that is believable.
 

Road

Member
He must mean 1m PS2s out of the 13.1m recorded for "Home Consoles" not 1m PS2s for the quarter. If Dynopia thinks it's the latter then he needs his head examining.

It is obvious he means the former we just have to read what he wrote.

PS3 LTD as of March 31st: 63.9m
PS3+PS2 sales from April to December: 13.1m

63.9 + 13.1 = 77m

Thus, the only way the PS3 is at 77m, as IDC said, is if PS2 shipments since April have been zero. Dynopia is claiming they are at least 1 million, therefore the PS3 is at 76m at best.

Whether he's right or not, we can't know.
 
Actually, looking back through the quotes, I believe Dynopia is claiming that during the 6 months April 1st to Sept 30th 1M PS2s were shipped.

IDC's forecast was always nonsensical - I'm not sure why people became so invested in it.
 
It is obvious he means the former we just have to read what he wrote.

PS3 LTD as of March 31st: 63.9m
PS3+PS2 sales from April to December: 13.1m

63.9 + 13.1 = 77m

Thus, the only way the PS3 is at 77m as IDC said, is if PS2 shipments since April have been zero. Dynopia is claiming they are at least 1 million, therefore the PS3 is at 76m at best.

Whether he's right or not, we can't know.

We can do the same with the 70 million threshold, and "know" fairly certainly Sony isn't at 76 million.

Hell, we can "know that" just from the fact they didn't announce it.

But do the same thing, pretend all 6.8 million PS3's + PS2's sold in October-December were PS3s.

Sony announced 70 million after October.

So Sony would be at 76.8 million adding the 2 together.. subtracting out October.

You'd have to believe that Sony for some odd reason, out of those 6.8 million shipped, less than 800k were shipped in October.. the month leading into the big holiday rush.

And again, that's all pretending PS2 shipped zero units.

Conclusion + the fact Sony didn't announce it:

PS3 numbers are under 75.9 million, the reported MS figure.

edit: To add.. Sony announced the 70 million number in mid-November, claiming they'd hit it "earlier in the month."

Which means the 70 million number includes all of October, and early November.

It's quite possible Sony is at even less than this thread is conservatively predicting.

Wouldn't a huge chunk of thoose 6.8-PS2 shipments have occured in October and early November to stalk up for Christmas sales? Like potentially at least 2-3 million of them?
 
The earnings call transcript is up. Not much about gaming, BASICALLY just this:

...So again, there are discussions about the next platform, I cannot dwell on that at all at the moment. But in any case, we have a lot of business in PS3...

So, he basically recommends us to wait till 20th of February! :D


Well, Sony's overall improvement is becoming clearly visible from all these numbers. Let's hope they will finally report net profit in May. But they still have a long road to go in terms of comeback to actually good and stable performance as a whole. As for gaming, nice to see them making money despite Vita's underperformance and big R&D costs of PS4.
 

Shayan

Banned
We can do the same with the 70 million threshold, and "know" fairly certainly Sony isn't at 76 million.

Hell, we can "know that" just from the fact they didn't announce it.

But do the same thing, pretend all 6.8 million PS3's + PS2's sold in October-December were PS3s.

Sony announced 70 million after October.

So Sony would be at 76.8 million adding the 2 together.. subtracting out October.

You'd have to believe that Sony for some odd reason, out of those 6.8 million shipped, less than 800k were shipped in October.. the month leading into the big holiday rush.

And again, that's all pretending PS2 shipped zero units.

Conclusion + the fact Sony didn't announce it:

PS3 numbers are under 75.9 million, the reported MS figure.

edit: To add.. Sony announced the 70 million number in mid-November, claiming they'd hit it "earlier in the month."

Which means the 70 million number includes all of October, and early November.

It's quite possible Sony is at even less than this thread is conservatively predicting.

Wouldn't a huge chunk of thoose 6.8-PS2 shipments have occured in October and early November to stalk up for Christmas sales? Like potentially at least 2-3 million of them?

gotta love these guys

PS3 is over 76m even by grandiose estimates for PS2

Out of 15.6m at max 15% could be ps2 numbers ..even that might be a stretch since its discontinued

that number of 70m was as of 4th November 2012 and when SONY reported passing 70m, in essence it could be just 70.1m /70.5m /71m as of nov 4th 2012

SONY launched slim ps3s in PAL region the last 2 months of 2012 so definitely they might have shipped more units in the last 2 months. Also that super slim ps3 was on top of the sales charts in many PAL regions for a few weeks

even by some generous estimates, ps2 sales this year especially in the last 3 quarters were much lower than last year and hence discontinued due to rising marginal cost

I wouldnt say ps3 was 77m as of last quarter but close to that and over 76m

Actually, looking back through the quotes, I believe Dynopia is claiming that during the 6 months April 1st to Sept 30th 1M PS2s were shipped.

IDC's forecast was always nonsensical - I'm not sure why people became so invested in it.

again, that claim has no substance since only a sales dip would translate into higher marginal cost of production and eventual discontinuation of the product. Like many pointed out , there is nothing that suggest ps2 selling as much as a million units last 3 quarters ww
 
gotta love these guys

What guys? People being logical?

I own a PS3, own a Vita.. I'm not some Sony hater.


that number of 70m was as of 4th November 2012 and when SONY reported passing 70m, in essence it could be just 70.1m /70.5m /71m as of nov 4th 2012

even by some generous estimates, ps2 sales this year especially in the last 3 quarters were much lower than last year and hence discontinued due to rising marginal cost

Explain where my Math is wrong then.

Sony did 6.8 million for both PS3 and PS2, for October-December.

Even assuming 0 PS2 shipments.

They announced 70 million in mid-November, stating they surpassed that number on November 4th.

So again.. 70 + 6.8 - October shipments, - PS2 Shipments.

Even if you set PS2 shipments at 0, they'd have to have shipped only 800k units in October of 2012, and the other 6 million in November/December in order to have surpassed 76 million units sold.

But likely neither are true.. PS2 shipped more than 0.. and Sony shipped more than 800k units in October of 2012.

Tell me why I deserve a condescending "got to love these guys" comment, and tell me where my Math is off?

And you guys REALLY think Sony would be being this obtuse and vague and not have announced they surpassed MS unless they were... under MS's numbers?

Not that it matters much in the long run.. but it's very likely something Sony would have announced. Which is also, again, perfectly logical, and not deserving of some condescending reply.

You are basing your Math on this essentially:

PS3 LTD as of March 31st: 63.9m
PS3+PS2 sales from April to December: 13.1m

Which means you believe Sony shipped less than 1 million PS2s to hit that 76 million PS3 shipped number.

Which would mean Sony sold around 7.5% PS2s.. not 15%. Where are you getting 15.6 million from in the first place?
 

jcm

Member
[IMG/]http://i.imgur.com/XZjVB6N.jpg[/IMG]

here we go mobile numbers in a nice way from xperiablog.net

Is xperia all of Sony's smartphones, and only smartphones? Are they all android?

Explain where my Math is wrong then.

Sony did 6.8 million for both PS3 and PS2, for October-December.

Even assuming 0 PS2 shipments.

They announced 70 million in mid-November, stating they surpassed that number on November 4th.

It's not the math, it's the assumption that that 70Mth unit actually went out the door On November 4. For all we know, That's when they reconciled the October numbers and found it cracked 70M sometime in the first week of October. You can't count on PR for precise numbers. You have to go by the earnings reports.
 
here we go mobile numbers in a nice way from xperiablog.net

Yeah, smartphones (and hopefully tablets too) are great point of growth for them. They already sell good amount of them, next goal - actually make money from them. I think this will happen after all this "Sony Ericsson -> Sony Mobile" transition's dust will settle down.

Is xperia all of Sony's smartphones, and only smartphones? Are they all android?

Yes, and tablets line-up is named "Xperia" as well. And yes, only Android, as for now.
 
Yeah, smartphones (and hopefully tablets too) are great point of growth for them. They already sell good amount of them, next goal - actually make money from them. I think this will happen after all this "Sony Ericsson -> Sony Mobile" transition's dust will settle down.

No tablet figures included in that figure. It is smartphones only for now. I think in 2013/14 they might start reporting tablet shipments. The Xperia Tablet Z is probably their first serious attempt at making a decent tablet despite the shitty battery.

I hope they release a Tablet ZL and give it a thicker build so it could fit a larger battery, maybe double the size of the one in the Tablet Z.
 

Basch

Member
No, PS3 hit 70m at the end of October (with a PR relased on November 4th). Not at the end of Q2 (September).
It's the same mistake that IDC did in their report.

So to get PS3 LTD numbers we have to:
1)Add 6.8m to 70m = 76.8m
2)Subtract what PS2 has sold during the October-December quarter, which considering the amount of units shipped last year, downward trends for all the consoles and the fact that it was discontinued because there isn't anymore demand for it, accounts for 0.4-0.5m and then we get: 76.3-76.4m
3)Subtract whatever PS3 has shipped during October. This is the hardest thing to guess. Considering that the new Slim definetly replaced the old Slim in November (at least in Europe the market was flooded with 12GB units in mid November) it seems realistic to think that 1m-1.5m out of the 6.3m shipped in the quarter were shipped during October.
4)So we're left with an estimated LTD of 74.9m-75.4m at the end of 2012. Which gives us the idea the PS3 should be really close to the 360 at this point, possibly even less than 1m close.

Yeah, I rechecked the sources and the listing was off on the site. They cited the sales as September 30th, probably because that's what Wiki had. My bad. Still though, I don't see it as low as 74.9 mil. If you add the numbers based on their reports up to last year it comes out to 63.9 million. Add in the PS2/PS3 combined numbers and you get 77 million. Subtract the 1.5 million on the high-end for PS2 shipped over three quarters and you get 75.5 million which is above your high end. I'd think that would be more reasonable, yes? I'd still think that's rather conservative though. My guess, anywhere between 75.4-75.9 mil.

Quick question: Do you post at WCG? :troll:

What's WCG?
 

Shayan

Banned
What guys? People being logical?

I own a PS3, own a Vita.. I'm not some Sony hater.

Explain where my Math is wrong then.

Sony did 6.8 million for both PS3 and PS2, for October-December.

Even assuming 0 PS2 shipments.

They announced 70 million in mid-November, stating they surpassed that number on November 4th.

So again.. 70 + 6.8 - October shipments, - PS2 Shipments.

Even if you set PS2 shipments at 0, they'd have to have shipped only 800k units in October of 2012, and the other 6 million in November/December in order to have surpassed 76 million units sold.

But likely neither are true.. PS2 shipped more than 0.. and Sony shipped more than 800k units in October of 2012.

Tell me why I deserve a condescending "got to love these guys" comment, and tell me where my Math is off?

They announced 70m in mid November but that was as of 4th Nov 2012

They announced that as of 4th November ,2012 , ps3 surpassed 70m units ww

so that could like i said be 70.1m /70m/71m/70.5m/72m

they sold a combined 15.6m ps3s+ps2s from Jan -dec 2012

so even if we take a generous 10% of that to be ps2 like 1.5m ..ps3 is still over 76m

EDIT: as JCM found out, it was in October and in November they launched the slimmer ps3s in PAL
 

Road

Member
Is xperia all of Sony's smartphones, and only smartphones? Are they all android?

The numbers in the earnings report by Sony are labeled "smartphones".

Thing is they're basically all called Xperia these days. I'm not sure if Sony released any non Xperia smartphone in 2012. They do have some random ones from 2011 like Walkman whatever.
 
The numbers in the earnings report by Sony are labeled "smartphones".

Thing is they're basically all called Xperia these days. I'm not sure if Sony released any non Xperia smartphone in 2012. They do have some random ones from 2011 like Walkman whatever.

No, that Walkman branded phone wasn't a smartphone. It was one of the final non-smart devices from Sony Ericsson. In 2012 Sony Mobile only shipped smartphones, and they turned into a smartphone only company on the day of the buyout. Part of the losses that Sony took when they bought the unit was writing off non-smartphone stock which lead to the valuation charge on the DTA.
 

coldfoot

Banned
Although it's still losing some money, the near doubling of sales in the Mobile division should give a hint to Sony about what to do with the Vita.
 
so that could like i said be 70.1m /70m/71m/70.5m/72m

OK.. so Sony claimed specifically November 4th for some reason, and then said 70 million.. but weren't being remotely accurate?

Either way.. again.. you guys are using the entire year instead of just going by the known March LTD number + known April-December shipments..

Which would require only 7.5% of their shipment numbers to be PS2's to surpass 76 million.

If any more than 7.5% of their April-December shipments were PS2's, they are under 76 million.

Considering you guys think it's "generous" that they did 10% for the entire year.. despite the fact that it contradicts what happened between Jan-March...

And I'm the one that deserves a condescending remark huh?

Are these numbers wrong?

PS3 LTD as of March 31st: 63.9m
PS3+PS2 sales from April to December: 13.1m
 

Shayan

Banned
Although it's still losing some money, the near doubling of sales in the Mobile division should give a hint to Sony about what to do with the Vita.

chief, handhelds are being replaced by smartphones. It is a paradigm shift

It is time for SONY to incorporate pS brand behind building great smartphones and tablets. Thats where the market is heading

Xperia Z seems to be a great phone with great sales potential. It will not replace Galaxy but it can do decent in sales i believe

Are these numbers wrong?
those numbers are not wrong but the numbers from April to Dec are so small that PS2 was discontinued in Jan 2013
 

coldfoot

Banned
chief, handhelds are being replaced by smartphones. It is a paradigm shift

It is time for SONY to incorporate pS brand behind building great smartphones and tablets. Thats where the market is heading

Xperia Z seems to be a great phone with great sales potential. It will not replace Galaxy but it can do decent in sales i believe

That's what I meant as well. I'd buy the Vita if it were at least 7" and had tablet functionality. They could even make it run VitaOS and Android concurrently with a simple switch to go between the two.
 
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