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[Lognor]

BC is niche.

High profile VR games doesn’t work on Quest 2 without PC.

PSVR2 doesn’t have a processing unit on the device, it is not a mobile standalone device.

PSVR2 will have more money investment from Sony than the community of Quest 2… that is what happened with PSVR already.

What your point exactly?

Bc is not nearly as niche as vr. Not even close.

Bc is important. If it wasn't Sony and ms would not have included it in their newest consoles.

Certain games work on quest 2 without a pc. ZERO games will work on psvr2 without aps5. And ZERO games from psvr 1 will work? Give missed opportunity. Bc is important. Hopefully Sony figures this out and it doesn't cost consumers to play those psvr1 games on their psvr2.

 

[ArtHands]

While the tracking systems are different, there should be easy ways to translate/map movements.

I think it's pretty much a given it will be BC - didn't think leak that got things 100% right say it was BC too?

You can say the same thing for PS4 games with PS5 DualSense. But look where we are

 

[IntentionalPun]

I'm telling y'all, it'll have BC, there's zero reason to think it won't.

 

[01011001]

I don't know why anyone thinks the "tracking method" changing would cause a BC issues.

Why would an API a dev use suddenly be sending different kinds of data?

That's not how an API would work, it's sending directional coordinates, acceleration, etc.

It's like suggesting you wouldn't know how to read a radar gun, if you've only ever looked at a car's speedometer.

the tracking method of the PSVR1 is very different from the PSVR2. This is not a PC where there have been efforts made to have a cross compatible API that supports many devices.
also the Move Controllers are tracked unlike almost any other VR Controller out there (mainly because they were never designed as VR Controllers), it only has a SINGLE tracking point and the rest ist tracked through Sixaxis. other VR Controllers, including the PSVR2 controllers use multiple tracking points to determine the exact position and orientation of the controller + gyros as a way to track movement when stuff gets obscured.

I bet it's not that easy to change that reliably to work with every game out there and not break.
And now if we add games that use the Dualshock 4 and track that in-game too like Astrobot, then it's also a completely different way it would need to track the Dualsense, and Dualshock 4s wouldn't work at all without also having the PS Camera set up in addition to having a PSVR2, because the tracking method herre is on the back of the controller which will be totally obscured for the PSVR2 and not trackable

 

[Iced Arcade]

There is no way Sony is going to release it without BC and expect people to buy an expensive unit only to start from scratch with a handful of titles. Sony isn't that stupid.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Sony isn't that stupid.

With Jim Ryan as chief... i have a big doubt

 

[Ezekiel_]

I'm hoping it's fully backwards compatible, that PSVR games work with the new headset and controllers, but I feel like there's going to be a technical reason that it won't be.

Why would they have bothered to offer a PSVR dongle for PS5?

The PSVR2 launch games will be some Sony first party and third party's updated games.

That's my prediction, and I hope I'm wrong. I've skipped PSVR, but am considering PSVR2 because of all the games they gave for free or included with PS+.

 

[PlaystationFan5349]

Why does Sony always starts from scratch everyone they release new hardware? They are so incompetent in this aspect. Other companies like Microsoft or Nintendo do care about their new product working with the old stuff so consumers don’t get fucked, but Sony just doesn’t care. They will release this thing and add BC two years down the line and of course it will be half assed.

Remember PS5 wasn’t supposed to be Backward compatible until the pressure of having no games on launch and Xbox Gamepass and spectacular BC made them do it.

 

[dotnotbot]

Other companies like Microsoft or Nintendo do care about their new product working with the old stuff so consumers don’t get fucked

Nintendo cares? Interesting

 

[PlaystationFan5349]

Actually the Oculus games did receive patches when the new headsets came out. So the PSVR games could receive patches, but that would probably make them native PS5 games.

They just neeed to translate the code like Apple does with the M1 chips that are able to practically use every program without the needing any updates.

 

[PixelatedBeast]

Why does Sony always starts from scratch everyone they release new hardware? They are so incompetent in this aspect. Other companies like Microsoft or Nintendo do care about their new product working with the old stuff so consumers don’t get fucked, but Sony just doesn’t care. They will release this thing and add BC two years down the line and of course it will be half assed.

Remember PS5 wasn’t supposed to be Backward compatible until the pressure of having no games on launch and Xbox Gamepass and spectacular BC made them do it.

Pressure of having no games at launch? You have the ps5 and xbox mixed up. Ps5 was the publisher showing games and gameplay for the release of the ps5 through their online shows through Covid. The mix of 1st party exclusives and 3rd party exclusives is what pushed Microsoft to purchase Bethesda for 7 billion so they could keep up. Ps5 had ps4 backwards compatibility from the start, as shown by slides in Mark Cernys press conference when revealing the specs.

I dont think the psvr2 will be backwards compatible. It will require devs releasing patches to make their games forward compatible with the new tracking methods. They can also bump the resolution up and add haptic feedback support.

 

[Loxus]

I dont think the psvr2 will be backwards compatible. It will require devs releasing patches to make their games forward compatible with the new tracking methods. They can also bump the resolution up and add haptic feedback support.

PlayStation VR2 and PlayStation VR2 Sense controller: the next generation of VR gaming on PS5
Next-gen VR on PS5: the new controller
If you fully read through the PSVR 2 and Sense controller blog, you would notice the PSVR 2 Sense controllers use DetectionIR LED for position tracking via tracking ring across the bottom of the controller.

HD camera for PS5
You would also notice the PS5 HD camera has dual wide-angle lenses.

The PS5 HD camera can just track the PSVR 2 Sense controllers IR LED the same way as PSVR 1 if you think motion tracking would be an issue.

PlayStation VR: What It Is and How It Works
PlayStation VR accomplishes this by leveraging the PlayStation Camera, which is capable of tracking LEDs that are built into the surface of the headset.

PlayStation Move controllers are tracked by the same camera, making these controllers well suited to the purpose of controlling VR games.

 

[yurinka]

PlayStation VR2 and PlayStation VR2 Sense controller: the next generation of VR gaming on PS5
Next-gen VR on PS5: the new controller
If you fully read through the PSVR 2 and Sense controller blog, you would notice the PSVR 2 Sense controllers use DetectionIR LED for position tracking via tracking ring across the bottom of the controller.

HD camera for PS5
You would also notice the PS5 HD camera has dual wide-angle lenses.

The PS5 HD camera can just track the PSVR 2 Sense controllers IR LED the same way as PSVR 1 if you think motion tracking would be an issue.

PlayStation VR: What It Is and How It Works
PlayStation VR accomplishes this by leveraging the PlayStation Camera, which is capable of tracking LEDs that are built into the surface of the headset.

PlayStation Move controllers are tracked by the same camera, making these controllers well suited to the purpose of controlling VR games.

PS5 HD camera is to use it with PSVR1, you place it in the tv.

PSVR2 won't use that camera because the heatset itself has multiple cameras, so now won't be needed to be facing the tv/camera. You'll be able to turn without losing tracking in PSVR2 games. I may be wrong but I think the IR sensors placed under the Sense controller aren't to be tracked by the PSVR1 tv camera, they are to track the position of the fingers.

The PSVR1 camera didn't detect the headset, Move controllers or DS4 using IR. It tracked the big blue lights they had. Sense and DualSense controllers don't have the blue lights anymore. And the PSVR2 shouldn't have it because it won't use the camera.

 

[Miles708]

Let's put it like that: if Sony had a flawlessly working back compatibility, it would have already boasted its incredible features by now.

 

[Fafalada]

Let's put it like that: if Sony had a flawlessly working back compatibility, it would have already boasted its incredible features by now.

Let's put it another way - every time they had BC at launch (which was majority of the time - 4 out of 7 consoles) they just mentioned it in passing (never boasting about 'incredible' features).
Hell even when they released BC as a promotional-feature mid-gen (PSP->PS1) the entire PR we got out of it was was 'Riiiiiiidge Racer'.

The other bit worth mentioning is that for all of those 4/7 times - BC was broadly unfinished (and not even close to flawless) 1 year or more before launch. Even the PS2->PS1 BC came in really late, and really hot. So if PSVR2 does get BC, it's definitely not flawless today(if it even works yet).

 

[Fafalada]

They can also bump the resolution up and add haptic feedback support.

Some of the games can automatically get a resolution bump just by virtue of talking to PSVR2 SDK. That + performance & tracking fidelity bump alone would significantly upgrade most of PSVR library without requiring patches. It's a definite sales-point to existing owners, and it would provide a non-0 starting point for the headset in terms of software library, both of which are rather valuable to selling a peripheral.
Now - Sony has the numbers behind this - and they may still think the value of that doesn't outweigh the cost of BC implementation - but that's pure speculation territory for all of us.

 

[NickFire]

Let's put it like that: if Sony had a flawlessly working back compatibility, it would have already boasted its incredible features by now.

I don't think it's a stretch to assume that Sony could be saving a few big details for the first in depth show off. The drip drip drip of news has proven incredibly effective these past couple of years, as demonstrated very effectively by MS IMO. Would make perfect sense to dominate the news cycles with hardware specs, and run it back with software announcements when everyone is tuning in to find out the answer to their questions. Plus, BC would almost certainly drive a massive increase in software sales compared to a handful of games ready for launch.

 

[Loxus]

PS5 HD camera is to use it with PSVR1, you place it in the tv.

PSVR2 won't use that camera because the heatset itself has multiple cameras, so now won't be needed to be facing the tv/camera. You'll be able to turn without losing tracking in PSVR2 games. I may be wrong but I think the IR sensors placed under the Sense controller aren't to be tracked by the PSVR1 tv camera, they are to track the position of the fingers.

The PSVR1 camera didn't detect the headset, Move controllers or DS4 using IR. It tracked the big blue lights they had. Sense and DualSense controllers don't have the blue lights anymore. And the PSVR2 shouldn't have it because it won't use the camera.

PS5 HD camera is not compatible with PSVR 1.
PS4 games on PS5: Your top questions answered
The new HD camera for PS5 is not compatible with PS VR.

Probably because it can only track the new IR LED.
Edit:
Why would Sony make the HD camera with dual wide angle cameras if it's not used for some sort of motion tracking?
It would be good for backwards compatibility if inside out tracking is an issue.

 

[01011001]

PlayStation VR2 and PlayStation VR2 Sense controller: the next generation of VR gaming on PS5
Next-gen VR on PS5: the new controller
If you fully read through the PSVR 2 and Sense controller blog, you would notice the PSVR 2 Sense controllers use DetectionIR LED for position tracking via tracking ring across the bottom of the controller.

HD camera for PS5
You would also notice the PS5 HD camera has dual wide-angle lenses.

The PS5 HD camera can just track the PSVR 2 Sense controllers IR LED the same way as PSVR 1 if you think motion tracking would be an issue.

PlayStation VR: What It Is and How It Works
PlayStation VR accomplishes this by leveraging the PlayStation Camera, which is capable of tracking LEDs that are built into the surface of the headset.

PlayStation Move controllers are tracked by the same camera, making these controllers well suited to the purpose of controlling VR games.

so what you are suggesting is that they should make it so you need the camera in addition to the PSVR2 for backwards compatibility with PSVR1?

that would be ridiculously convoluted and wouldn't go over well PR wise.


also I don't know why you even have that first link there, since that is the actual issue with the tracking between both systems.

PSMove has 1 point of tracking + gyro for orientation tracking.
PSVR2 uses multiple tracking points for both positional and directional tracking and has a gyro for additional precision and fallback method.

they work completely differently in terms of tracking which is exactly where the complications come in for making it backwards compatible.

it can ne done but it will be far from effortless and it's a question of "is it worth it for Sony?" not "can they do it?", because they can do it, just like they can make the PS5 backwards compatible with PS1, PSP and PS2 with ease... but they still don't do that either

 

[ethomaz]

There is no way Sony is going to release it without BC and expect people to buy an expensive unit only to start from scratch with a handful of titles. Sony isn't that stupid.

I don't know what others wants but I will pay price with all or some of these:

GT7 VR
Alyx
RE Village VR

It will be insta-buy.
BC is basically a neutral point in my purchase.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I would buy it for Alyx probably, perhaps Horizon if its more than just a gallery game. It would also be nice to see RE4 VR pop up. Or Village if Capcom is willing. And you can expect something from Asobi, perhaps even the Astro Playroom itself? But though most legacy software is sort of throwaway, I would really want Rez bumped up to native resolution.

 

[Fafalada]

they work completely differently in terms of tracking which is exactly where the complications come in for making it backwards compatible.

The 'only' aspect where different tracking has any relevance is the question of supporting legacy-peripherals.
Ie. If Sony wants to make PSVR2 track Move/Aim, that's where they'll have some work (I'm positive it would work, but it's a change to how the bulbs would be tracked, and it's a valid question if they'd want to put in the effort).

There's literally no other situation where the 'tracking is different' is relevant to 'PSVR2 BC' conversation at all - I don't know why people keep insisting that's the issue.

 

[Loxus]

so what you are suggesting is that they should make it so you need the camera in addition to the PSVR2 for backwards compatibility with PSVR1?

that would be ridiculously convoluted and wouldn't go over well PR wise.


also I don't know why you even have that first link there, since that is the actual issue with the tracking between both systems.

PSMove has 1 point of tracking + gyro for orientation tracking.
PSVR2 uses multiple tracking points for both positional and directional tracking and has a gyro for additional precision and fallback method.

they work completely differently in terms of tracking which is exactly where the complications come in for making it backwards compatible.

it can ne done but it will be far from effortless and it's a question of "is it worth it for Sony?" not "can they do it?", because they can do it, just like they can make the PS5 backwards compatible with PS1, PSP and PS2 with ease... but they still don't do that either

PSVR 2 Sense controllers are tracked by LED.
PSVR 1 Move controllers are tracked by LED.

I understand how backwards compatibility can be a issue.

 

[01011001]

PSVR 2 Sense controllers are tracked by LED.
PSVR 1 Move controllers are tracked by LED.

I understand how backwards compatibility can be a issue.

every VR controller is tracked by LED, the difference is that PSVR1 does only track a single LED.

also the button mapping can be a huge issue. every PSMove controller has 5 face buttons + a trigger + interface buttona that are potentially all used.

PSVR2 has 2 face buttons per controller... that is a huge difference right there

 

[R6Rider]

also the button mapping can be a huge issue

This is also an issue for PSVR games that only worked with the DS4 such as RE7 and Astro Bot Rescue Mission. Hitman 3 also only uses DS4, but seeing as how it's getting a PCVR release, I can see them already having a PSVR2 version in the works (if not ready).

 

[Loxus]

every VR controller is tracked by LED, the difference is that PSVR1 does only track a single LED.

PSVR 2 Sense Controller only has one LED also, which is a tracking ring.

also the button mapping can be a huge issue. every PSMove controller has 5 face buttons + a trigger + interface buttona that are potentially all used.

PSVR2 has 2 face buttons per controller... that is a huge difference right there

You talking about face buttons like that's all the buttons the Sense controller has.
PSVR 2 Sense Controller has more buttons. The Right & Left sticks can double as directional buttons. (Left, Right, Up, Down)

PSVR 2 Sense Controller Buttons

​

PSVR 2 Sense Controller Buttons
(Right)
PS button, Options button,
Action buttons: (Circle / Cross), R1 button, R2 button, Right Stick / R3 button
(Left)
PS button, Create button,
Action buttons: (Triangle / Square), L1 button, L2 button, Left Stick / L3 button

PSVR 1 Move controllers
[Motion controller]
Start, Select, Home button,
Action buttons: Triangle, Circle, Cross, Square, Move button, Analog trigger (T)
[Navigation controller]
Home button,
Action buttons: Cross, Circle, L1, Analog trigger (L2), L3, Analog stick, D-pad


First hardware, then motion sensor, now button mapping.
What's next, usb type-c makes it not backwards compatibles?

 

[01011001]

PSVR 2 Sense Controller only has one LED also, which is a tracking ring.

You talking about face buttons like that's all the buttons the Sense controller has.
PSVR 2 Sense Controller has more buttons. The Right & Left sticks can double as directional buttons. (Left, Right, Up, Down)

PSVR 2 Sense Controller Buttons

​

PSVR 2 Sense Controller Buttons
(Right)
PS button, Options button,
Action buttons: (Circle / Cross), R1 button, R2 button, Right Stick / R3 button
(Left)
PS button, Create button,
Action buttons: (Triangle / Square), L1 button, L2 button, Left Stick / L3 button

PSVR 1 Move controllers
[Motion controller]
Start, Select, Home button,
Action buttons: Triangle, Circle, Cross, Square, Move button, Analog trigger (T)
[Navigation controller]
Home button,
Action buttons: Cross, Circle, L1, Analog trigger (L2), L3, Analog stick, D-pad


First hardware, then motion sensor, now button mapping.
What's next, usb type-c makes it not backwards compatibles?

usually the rings on these controllers have multiple LEDs, you can see how many are set up in some of the Windows VR controllers

see those white dots displayed here? those are the IR tracking LEDs

here is a Quest 2 controller with the LEDs showing

and yes the button mapping is a HUGE issue... you would need to patch literally every game or you will have a terrible time.
every on screen tutorial will not only display the wrong buttons but also the wrong controllers.

the PSVR2 controller has 2 face buttons on each side / the Move controller has 5 face buttons on each side
the PSVR2 controller has 2 shoulder buttons on each side / Movie has 1 shoulder button on each side
PSVR2 has a stick per side / Move has no stick or anything comparable
PSVR2 has an option button per side / Move has Start and Select per side

how can you look at this and tell me that the button mapping is not an issue? there is almost ZERO overlap here... there is less overlap between the PSVR2 and Move controllers than there is between the Move and the Wii Remote, LITERALLY less overlap

 

[ethomaz]

The 'only' aspect where different tracking has any relevance is the question of supporting legacy-peripherals.
Ie. If Sony wants to make PSVR2 track Move/Aim, that's where they'll have some work (I'm positive it would work, but it's a change to how the bulbs would be tracked, and it's a valid question if they'd want to put in the effort).

There's literally no other situation where the 'tracking is different' is relevant to 'PSVR2 BC' conversation at all - I don't know why people keep insisting that's the issue.

I believe Village was developed already with PSVR2 in mind.

 

[Fafalada]

how can you look at this and tell me that the button mapping is not an issue? there is almost ZERO overlap here... there is less overlap between the PSVR2 and Move controllers than there is between the Move and the Wii Remote, LITERALLY less overlap

It's just one-way button mapping though (there's enough inputs to cover everything). The BC layer could offer a remapping menu that shows what goes where - PSP/Vita style.
Personally I'd prefer the option to just keep using Move (and I see no reason PSVR2 couldn't track it) - 'but' I could also see people whine to high-heavens if that was the 'only' way to play BC games.

usually the rings on these controllers have multiple LEDs, you can see how many are set up in some of the Windows VR controllers

That's for shape/orientation recognition. PSVR1 image-libraries also do the same for tracking the headset.
And even DS4 was using the shape of its one LED to assist with orientation determination (it wasn't just size on screen, like the Moves - which led to additional problems with tracking them reliably).

 

[01011001]

It's just one-way button mapping though (there's enough inputs to cover everything). The BC layer could offer a remapping menu that shows what goes where - PSP/Vita style.
Personally I'd prefer the option to just keep using Move (and I see no reason PSVR2 couldn't track it) - 'but' I could also see people whine to high-heavens if that was the 'only' way to play BC games.


That's for shape/orientation recognition. PSVR1 image-libraries also do the same for tracking the headset.
And even DS4 was using the shape of its one LED to assist with orientation determination (it wasn't just size on screen, like the Moves - which led to additional problems with tracking them reliably).

you could do it with remapping, but honestly that would really not be very user friendly at all.

and the way the Move is tracked compared to the PSVR2 controllers is the exact issue here. they would need to have an API that translates everything to the new way of tracking. on PC that is already done for the developers for the most part because these things have been accounted for on PC from the very start due to the variety of headsets.
honestly the button mapping is the bigger issue overall, but this is also something Sony would need to do and also test to ensure every game works fine with the new tracking.

 

[mrcroket]

I think that people forget or ignore a problem with quest 2, it is a very front heavy headset and ver

you could do it with remapping, but honestly that would really not be very user friendly at all.

and the way the Move is tracked compared to the PSVR2 controllers is the exact issue here. they would need to have an API that translates everything to the new way of tracking. on PC that is already done for the developers for the most part because these things have been accounted for on PC from the very start due to the variety of headsets.
honestly the button mapping is the bigger issue overall, but this is also something Sony would need to do and also test to ensure every game works fine with the new tracking.

People is not stupid, sony just need to show a controller mapping menu and an option for remapping buttons. Also the tracking on PC isn't done by games developers, you can play any PCVR game with the tracking system that you want, internal or external sensors, even PSVR and kinect to tracking controllers and headset and this is totally invisible for the game. You can simulate vive wands with move controllers and play any vr game for the HTC vives headset or even Oculus with revive.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

You'll be able to turn without losing tracking in PSVR2 games.

Any headset with inside out tracking will lose precision, or lose tracking all together, if it only relies on it's cameras. If you move the controllers out of the viewpoint, tracking goes away, and replies on approximation. Moving the controllers behind your head/back, results in wonky behavior.

Some ppl tried arguing with me about this and audio before, and had no clue what they were talking about. External tracking is much better than inside out tracking.

 

[mrcroket]

Any headset with inside out tracking will lose precision, or lose tracking all together, if it only relies on it's cameras. If you move the controllers out of the viewpoint, tracking goes away, and replies on approximation. Moving the controllers behind your head/back, results in wonky behavior.

Some ppl tried arguing with me about this and audio before, and had no clue what they were talking about. External tracking is much better than inside out tracking.

Yep is better but still internal tracking is good enough and much more convenient.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Yep is better but still internal tracking is good enough and much more convenient.

It's good enough, but the convenient argument gets me. It takes up no extra space and can be concealed pretty easily. It just takes up what, 10 minutes of setting up, for a superior experience. I've owned a few inside out tracking devices, and will never go back.

 

[01011001]

I think that people forget or ignore a problem with quest 2, it is a very front heavy headset and ver

People is not stupid, sony just need to show a controller mapping menu and an option for remapping buttons. Also the tracking on PC isn't done by games developers, you can play any PCVR game with the tracking system that you want, internal or external sensors, even PSVR and kinect to tracking controllers and headset and this is totally invisible for the game. You can simulate vive wands with move controllers and play any vr game for the HTC vives headset or even Oculus with revive.

translating this layout

with 1 gigantic button in the middle and 4 small buttons in a square around it with Start and Select buttons on the side (can't see them here)

to this?

people on here, yes on here... a GAMING FORUM... already often say they have issues going from an Xbox controller to a Nintendo controller because AB/XY are switched around, and you think it would be no issue for the common user to translate an outlandish button setup like the Move Controller's to the extremely different layout of the PSVR2 controllers?

remember that some games have mappings on the RIGHT and LEFT move controller that are different... so X or Square on the Right controller will do something different from X or Square on the Left controller

you would need to therefore remap 2 sets of 5 face buttons and 1 trigger on each controller, in addition to a Start and Select button on each controller (as they also are mapped in some games) onto what is 2 face buttons, 1 trigger, 1 grip button and 1 analog stick + stick button with a single Options button on each side

that is 8 buttons on each side on the move controller! 16 Buttons total
the PSVR2 controller has 5 buttons on each side + a stick... for 10 buttons total + 2 sticks

16 Buttons + no stick
10 buttons + 2 sticks
2 completely different layouts of these buttons


_____

also like I said about the tracking, on PC the work has been done from the beginning to translate this all into a unified system. i bet Sony did not do that work upfront and would have to do it now, and because it is so different in terms of tracking they would need to test of their translation works for every game, on PC developers can test their games for that. also even on PC some games do not support every controller/headset combo or setup. Steam has a compatibility list usually

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I'm biased because I didn't buy into PSVR1 but I honestly don't think BC is important to the future of PSVR.

There's a reason why I didn't buy PSVR1 and those who have PSVR1 can still use it on PS5. That's enough BC.

The experiences on PSVR2 are going to be significantly better.

We'll see if PSVR3 will be wireless or if they release a wireless version of PSVR2 in the future, but I think that is the next evolution for them.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

translating this layout

with 1 gigantic button in the middle and 4 small buttons in a square around it with Start and Select buttons on the side (can't see them here)

to this?

people on here, yes on here... a GAMING FORUM... already often say they have issues going from an Xbox controller to a Nintendo controller because AB/XY are switched around, and you think it would be no issue for the common user to translate an outlandish button setup like the Move Controller's to the extremely different layout of the PSVR2 controllers?

remember that some games have mappings on the RIGHT and LEFT move controller that are different... so X or Square on the Right controller will do something different from X or Square on the Left controller

you would need to therefore remap 2 sets of 5 face buttons and 1 trigger on each controller, in addition to a Start and Select button on each controller (as they also are mapped in some games) onto what is 2 face buttons, 1 trigger, 1 grip button and 1 analog stick + stick button with a single Options button on each side

that is 8 buttons on each side on the move controller! 16 Buttons total
the PSVR2 controller has 5 buttons on each side + a stick... for 10 buttons total + 2 sticks


_____

also like I said about the tracking, on PC the work has been done from the beginning to translate this all into a unified system. i bet Sony did not do that work upfront and would have to do it now, and because it is so different in terms of tracking they would need to test of their translation works for every game

It's clear that unlike other iterations of PlayStation, you have to cut the past out here from the get go.

 

[Fafalada]

you could do it with remapping, but honestly that would really not be very user friendly at all.

Sure, but audiences most interested in BC probably wouldn't mind.

and the way the Move is tracked compared to the PSVR2 controllers is the exact issue here. they would need to have an API that translates everything to the new way of tracking

API needs to return tracked-controller positions in space/time. Which is what PSVR SDK already does.
Input into the call is literally 'Controller_ID, Time' - so there's nothing to translate for the API.

these things have been accounted for on PC from the very start due to the variety of headsets.

PCVR was fragmented from the start and each SDK was built around a different (single) tracking solution. But again - that really doesn't matter much since making the interface 'tracking mechanics dependant' - would require some creatively weird approach to the SDKs - and that didn't happen.
As it stands - major VR SDKs (OpenVR, OSVR, Oculus, PSVR) were 'really' similar right from the start, especially when it comes to basic features like tracking. Probably because in a nascent industry there was little to gain by not learning from each other.
Or perhaps there just isn't that many ways to do this - so everyone solved it in roughly the same way.

 

[01011001]

Sure, but audiences most interested in BC probably wouldn't mind.


API needs to return tracked-controller positions in space/time. Which is what PSVR SDK already does.
Input into the call is literally 'Controller_ID, Time' - so there's nothing to translate for the API.


PCVR was fragmented from the start and each SDK was built around a different (single) tracking solution. But again - that really doesn't matter much since making the interface 'tracking mechanics dependant' - would require some creatively weird approach to the SDKs - and that didn't happen.
As it stands - major VR SDKs (OpenVR, OSVR, Oculus, PSVR) were 'really' similar right from the start, especially when it comes to basic features like tracking. Probably because in a nascent industry there was little to gain by not learning from each other.
Or perhaps there just isn't that many ways to do this - so everyone solved it in roughly the same way.

like I said the tracking issue is easy to solve, but I am not sure Sony's API could do it out of the gate.

the button mapping on the other hand? Sony seems to often be very careful, almost to a fault, with not being too convoluted.
remember how restrictive the PSTV was! Many games were not compatible with it even tho only small adjustments or manual remapping would have been needed... they even had a build in way to simulate touch inputs, yet blocked many games that needed even only very simple touch inputs from running on it.

and that was a walk in the park in terms of remapping stuff compared to what a remapped Move controller would look like on a PSVR2 layout

like, remap this to the PSVR2 controller, this is the mapping in Skyrim:

every single button is mapped, some even with multiple functions.
can you do it? of course, but not a single button would be the same in the end and some buttons would have to be remapped to analog movements

so the game tells you to press X on the left controller and on PSVR2 it would mean pushing the stick down... just as an example how it could go down, stuff like that

edit: note how X and Circle on the right controller almost need to stay X and Circle on the PSVR2 controller because you need them in menus! so mapping rotate left and rotate right to the right stick is almost out of the question here! unless you wanna map it twice, but X and Circle would still be occupied in many if not all games by default!

 

[Fafalada]

like I said the tracking issue is easy to solve, but I am not sure Sony's API could do it out of the gate.

If it helps - API is mechanically the same as how DualSense is used by PS4 games.
That doesn't return raw-sensor data either (controller device drivers do their own stuff to it before a game gets it). But the APIs themselves don't change.

and that was a walk in the park in terms of remapping stuff compared to what a remapped Move controller would look like on a PSVR2 layout

I mean - fair enough, I can't speak to how they make decisions on that internally.
One thing that makes Move different from every other VR controller out there is that they are a distinct peripheral. No things like pairing to headset and other nonsense that other VR devices do. From Game perspective they behave just like a DS4, or a Navigation controller, or any number of other connected devices - and every PSVR game is playable without them.
So Sony could just emulate DS4 with DS, and 'only' support Moves directly for BC. If you don't have them - well play with DS, or bug the developer (I'm sure many would quickly patch their games for that).

 

[01011001]

I mean - fair enough, I can't speak to how they make decisions on that internally.
One thing that makes Move different from every other VR controller out there is that they are a distinct peripheral. No things like pairing to headset and other nonsense that other VR devices do. From Game perspective they behave just like a DS4, or a Navigation controller, or any number of other connected devices - and every PSVR game is playable without them.
So Sony could just emulate DS4 with DS, and 'only' support Moves directly for BC. If you don't have them - well play with DS, or bug the developer (I'm sure many would quickly patch their games for that).

they could do that for sure. but I am not entirely sure that every PSVR game works with the DS4... how about stuff like Job Simulator? Or Batman VR? I have no idea how you would play them on a DS4

 

[Halo is Back]

Not revealing details when your company or product clearly isn't ready is a strong suit and should be commendable in this industry of fake hype.

 

[mrcroket]

like I said the tracking issue is easy to solve, but I am not sure Sony's API could do it out of the gate.

the button mapping on the other hand? Sony seems to often be very careful, almost to a fault, with not being too convoluted.
remember how restrictive the PSTV was! Many games were not compatible with it even tho only small adjustments or manual remapping would have been needed... they even had a build in way to simulate touch inputs, yet blocked many games that needed even only very simple touch inputs from running on it.

and that was a walk in the park in terms of remapping stuff compared to what a remapped Move controller would look like on a PSVR2 layout

like, remap this to the PSVR2 controller, this is the mapping in Skyrim:

every single button is mapped, some even with multiple functions.
can you do it? of course, but not a single button would be the same in the end and some buttons would have to be remapped to analog movements

so the game tells you to press X on the left controller and on PSVR2 it would mean pushing the stick down... just as an example how it could go down, stuff like that

edit: note how X and Circle on the right controller almost need to stay X and Circle on the PSVR2 controller because you need them in menus! so mapping rotate left and rotate right to the right stick is almost out of the question here! unless you wanna map it twice, but X and Circle would still be occupied in many if not all games by default!

Easy, in most games you can see the move control ingame, so the left and rigth stick can be mapped to main buttons for each move controller (circle, square, cross and triangle) and press the stick (R3 or L3) for each move button. And also let the user assign the other buttons as they want in the same way that psvita did with the touchpad and touchscreen.

 

[Fafalada]

they could do that for sure. but I am not entirely sure that every PSVR game works with the DS4... how about stuff like Job Simulator? Or Batman VR? I have no idea how you would play them on a DS4

Poorly - but that was the mandate during launch at least.
Having just checked - it does look they relaxed it later as some games have 'Move required'.
But yes - Batman is indeed playable with DS4. So is I Expect you to Die, Until Dawn, Far Point, Blood & Truth... Actually looks like 1st party titles all strictly kept to this requirement.

 

[01011001]

Easy, in most games you can see the move control ingame, so the left and rigth stick can be mapped to main buttons for each move controller (circle, square, cross and triangle) and press the stick (R3 or L3) for each move button. And also let the user assign the other buttons as they want in the same way that psvita did with the touchpad and touchscreen.

yeah like I said you can totally do it. but I think the bigger issue is that many big companies actively avoid having "dirty" fixes like these for their products as much as possible.
because even tho there is no better way to do it, you can be sure as hell that some people on twitter and reddit will very vocally voice their opinions on how awful it is to play PSVR games on the PSVR2 because "the buttons are all over the place and make no sense" or similar sentiments.

it's not elegant, and with these tech companies these days it's all about "elegance", just look how iOS works and how simplified and "nice and neat" everything has to be on iOS devices because it's just what is trendy

I disagree with that of course, hell I play N64 on my Xbox Series X and remapping that controller to a modern one is not that elegant either lol

this "no comment" situation makes me believe that they might actively work with developers to patch some of the back compat games to have native support for the PSVR2 controllers, and only those will be backwards compatible, just so they have this "nice and neat" appearance for the customer.

 

[SSfox]

Nice if BC is true, maybe i won't have to waste money on new PC in the end.