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[Tripolygon]

yeah its 100x if you naively believe that next gen games will still stick to using mostly 512 and 1024 textures. pure marketing.

Can you please explain how does the fact that texture size is increasing mean load speed is not 100x faster?

Let me put it another way.

File A is 10MB
File B is 100MB

How does file B change an IO system that has a throughput of 1GB/s from being 100x faster than an IO that has a throughput of 10MB/s?

 

[LittleBusters]

All it means is XSX can do the same rapid loading of the next parts of an open world game but slightly less textures/resolution. This is the only area PS5 will do better. On linear games, XSX is going to do better.

 

[yurinka]

It's finally time for the Demonstration. Enough talking.

They had to say something about their plans now because it's something they do every year when showing the FY report to the investors.

They didn't announce anything new here related to PS5, they only repeated known stuff. The 100x faster loading times quote was said while literally showing that particular powerpoint slide about this topic from Cerny's speech.

All it means is XSX can do the same rapid loading of the next parts of an open world game but slightly less textures/resolution. This is the only area PS5 will do better. On linear games, XSX is going to do better.

No, PS5 is twice faster than Series X loading from SSD everything. Which means that the amount of level to be streamed will be smaller in PS5, so they will be able to use these extra resources on putting more detailed textures and models on screen. In addition to this, PS5 GPU as a higher frequency, so GPU tasks that don't use all the CUs (or that don't use them at all) wll be faster on PS5.

Don't expect to see noticiable visual or performance differences between PS5 and Series X. The difference will be smaller than the one in PS4 vs XBO or X vs Pro and we won't know which one will look better. I assume we won't see a clear winner, most games will be tied and we may see a slight lead in a console or in another depending on the game.

 

[The Hamburglar]

Sony always wins baby.

 

[Three]

The loading times on horizon zero dawn were unbearable. Hopefully HZD2 improves on that massively.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

All it means is XSX can do the same rapid loading of the next parts of an open world game but slightly less textures/resolution. This is the only area PS5 will do better. On linear games, XSX is going to do better.

Linear games stream data too, unless you mean something like overcooked.

 

[Yakuzakazuya]

If this means Tekken 8 and SF6 loads in a second between matches I am in.

 

[dano1]

This is the worst kind of marketing. All people are going to see and repeat is 100 times the speed of ps4

WOW it’s 100 times faster that the PS4!!! I want one

 

[ethomaz]

by "PS5's custom-designed SSD will enable processing speeds that are roughly 100 times faster than PS4." are we talking seek times? GB/s? It makes sense, considering how freaking slow the consoles this gen accessed/read/write from the stock HD.

Definitely lookin forward to this generational leap the most.

If you consider PS4 HDD barely reaches 90MB/s... 9GB/s is 100x more.

 

[Yoboman]

yeah its 100x if you naively believe that next gen games will still stick to using mostly 512 and 1024 textures.
What's actually going to happen is that 4k textures will be used alot more. So "100x" is just pure marketing.

So it's not faster because it is now capable of doing things the slower systems couldn't?

 

[Knitted Knight]

A lot rests on Sony's first party studios to really push the standard of what next-gen should be. Their job is to raise gamers expectations of what next-gen should be so that then consumer exceptions force third parties to up their game. You can't count on third parties to up their game on their own as they develop for the lowest common denominators as a policy decision. The invisible hand of competition is too slow a tricktle on the third party space for a 5 year cycle. I would mention Microsoft as well in the bunch but then I remember I read Phil's interviews - can't count on them; only be surprised if and when they do.

 

[sendit]

I don't care what they said, that's what I'm saying. All this talk is gonna be embarrassing when they show 1440p 30fps piles of shit

To be fair. Microsoft showcased Minecraft running on the XSX at 1080p|30 FPS.

 

[Panajev2001a]

To be fair. Microsoft showcased Minecraft running on the XSX at 1080p|30 FPS.

It matters what people do with it. The UE5 demo at 1400p with great TAA and motion blur made nobody think “this is crap, I would rather it be 60 FPS at 4K...”: it was only when they were told that they complained and it is a big big difference.

 

[emmerrei]

Just asking to someone expert in the "sector". Considering that the SSD's have a limited amount of writing and reading, i know there is a sort of cache to prevent that, but, on the long run, especially with this ps5 where seems like they trying to read directly from the ssd countless times per second, this practice isn't going to degrade the ssd in record times? What's the estimated lifespan of those things?

 

[VisualFidelity]

Damn this whole time I should have been shopping for the fastest SSD instead of GPU. SSDs are like, the ultimate upgrade.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Just asking to someone expert in the "sector". Considering that the SSD's have a limited amount of writing and reading, i know there is a sort of cache to prevent that, but, on the long run, especially with this ps5 where seems like they trying to read directly from the ssd countless times per second, this practice isn't going to degrade the ssd in record times? What's the estimated lifespan of those things?

Both XSX and PS5 are pushing the same SSD as virtual memory storage approach, but likely the secret sauce to avoid excessive wear and tear is similar and centred around the SSD controller in addition to redundancy in the flash array itself: I expect both MS and Sony to have packed a decent amount of RAM cache and logic to cluster writes and reads to the SSD (especially writes) and distribute data across the SSD evenly.

It also depends on the exact NAND flash cells being used and the personal usage, but a console SSD should, on average, easily last several years (I do not think 6-10 years will be a problem): https://www.enterprisestorageforum.com/storage-hardware/ssd-lifespan.html .

 

[FranXico]

Damn this whole time I should have been shopping for the fastest SSD instead of GPU. SSDs are like, the ultimate upgrade.

A lot of PC gamers are going to be shopping for SSDs in the coming year or so.
It's not the same as a GPU, but it is going to become just as crucial to your experience.

 

[ZywyPL]

Faster storage helps in everything. The faster you can move a lot of data, the faster you can work on it that is why bandwidth keeps increasing. 8 core 16 thread Zen 2 CPU in next gen consoles offer those opportunities for advanced AI, advanced physics, advanced destruction, advanced interactions etc. Next gen consoles have more than 5x CPU performance increase. Also people wanted faster loading times. Developers also wanted a move from HDD to SSD because that offers more possibilities for game design not possible on current gen, even though most thought it wouldn't be possible at first. The faster you can move a lot of data also means the less data you have parked in RAM waiting to be used.


There is no genuine concern. Games stream in assets on the fly currently. During that demo didn't you see the world crumbling when the character was flying through it?


Next gen consoles have 3.5+GHz 8 core 16 thread Zen 2 CPU. That is a proper generational leap that allows for vastly more advanced physics and A.I, animation and vastly more interactive world. But it is up to developers now to make it happen.

I completely agree that everything will ultimately come down to how the devs will want to utilize the upcoming systems, to the games they want to create, however, we have decades of proven functionality, versus theoretical fairy tales about SSD that are yet to be proven... I would understand is people used words like "could", "should", "might be possible", bot nooo, they WILL work like that, they WILL do all the thing not possible before, there are many people here who already know it, they must be time travelers obviously... So I stand my point, until proven, it's all just theories, so far we only saw non-interactive, fully scripted UE5 demo, which other than more details doesn't differ from anything from this generation limited by Jaguar CPU, but what other devs will show is yet to be seen, hopefully that 4th June reveal is indeed true.

 

[FranXico]

So I stand my point, until proven, it's all just theories, so far we only saw non-interactive, fully scripted UE5 demo, which other than more details doesn't differ from anything from this generation limited by Jaguar CPU, but what other devs will show is yet to be seen, hopefully that 4th June reveal is indeed true.

The UE5 demo was interactive. You literally see how the presenter toggles things on and off in the engine right at the start.

That Jaguar comparison is just too ridiculous.

Hopefully this was a parody post.

 

[fast_taker]

This is a misleading statement. Considering the bottleneck that PS4 5200rpm disk imposed, the 100 times faster argument makes sense. But this has nothing to do with the CPU/GPU performance. The fact that cpu is not a bottleneck itself does, but that's not the issue. Sony does not want to talk about CPU because PCs and -even- xbox series X are way faster than PS5 in that regard. Sony's only advantage is the SSD and this is what the are bragging about. But hey these are big statements and most people will say "wow this is amazing".

 

[phil_t98]

It matters what people do with it. The UE5 demo at 1400p with great TAA and motion blur made nobody think “this is crap, I would rather it be 60 FPS at 4K...”: it was only when they were told that they complained and it is a big big difference.

that's because they were watching it on a compressed stream over the internet. harder to tell quality that way

 

[Lacix]

The only thing I am worried about is the size of the SSD and the cost to expand it.
I have an 1TB PS4 Pro with an additional 2TB USB HDD and I am out of space. This 825 GB SSD will fill up with 10-20 AAA games quickly and then we need to uninstall things before installing a new game.
I am sure there will be expansion possibilities in the future but how much will it cost?
2TB NVME QLC Intel drive costs now ~270$
2TB NVME TLC Samsung drive costs now ~450$.
And these are inferior to PS5 needs.
It is not cheap now but hopefully would be cheaper in 1-2 years,

 

[SuperSaiyanWithDreads]

It's weird because some of the best games have come out in these era alone:

BOTW
Horizon Zero Dawn
The Witcher 3
FFVII Remake (surprising, I know)
Assassins Creed Odyssey
MGSV (the story sucked but, the gameplay was the best in the series)
Hotline Miami
Celeste

These are just to name a very small chunk off the top of my head. I'm sure a lot of you have more you could add.

How can you forget
God of War
Spider-Man
And Cuphead

 

[phil_t98]

that's because they were watching it on a compressed stream over the internet. harder to tell quality that way

P Panajev2001a how triggered? Just stating how it is. You surely can tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps?

 

[Panajev2001a]

P Panajev2001a how triggered? Just stating how it is. You surely can tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps?

Yes, but really.. people had no issues (even the DF guys who looked at high quality direct footage trying to understand the real resolution) with the framerate and resolution and IQ of the footage due to video compression/bad quality video? Sorry, but I do not find it likely or believable. Not trying to reply harshly, so just emoted .

 

[phil_t98]

Yes, but really.. people had no issues (even the DF guys who looked at high quality direct footage trying to understand the real resolution) with the framerate and resolution and IQ of the footage due to video compression/bad quality video? Sorry, but I do not find it likely or believable. Not trying to reply harshly, so just emoted .

that is because of the stream quality. It’s hard to look at resolution throuigh a compressed video and also FPS. The demo looked amazing but seeing it in person running may not look as impressive with seeing the 30fps, it may also look far more impressive as well.

 

[Panajev2001a]

that is because of the stream quality. It’s hard to look at resolution throuigh a compressed video and also FPS. The demo looked amazing but seeing it in person running may not look as impressive with seeing the 30fps, it may also look far more impressive as well.

I think DF’s comment was based on direct high quality data provided by Epic unless I misread what they said. I doubt the full 4K stream on your TV would make you think anything but good things about what you see IQ wise: for most people it would “appear as“/give the impression of a native 4K stream running very smoothly. That is what great TAA/AA and motion blur do for you .

 

[onQ123]

This is a misleading statement. Considering the bottleneck that PS4 5200rpm disk imposed, the 100 times faster argument makes sense. But this has nothing to do with the CPU/GPU performance. The fact that cpu is not a bottleneck itself does, but that's not the issue. Sony does not want to talk about CPU because PCs and -even- xbox series X are way faster than PS5 in that regard. Sony's only advantage is the SSD and this is what the are bragging about. But hey these are big statements and most people will say "wow this is amazing".

Since when has 8 cores 16 threads @ 3.6Ghz been way faster than 8 cores 16 threads @ 3.5Ghz?

Also PS5 have more than just a SSD advantage

 

[phil_t98]

I think DF’s comment was based on direct high quality data provided by Epic unless I misread what they said. I doubt the full 4K stream on your TV would make you think anything but good things about what you see IQ wise: for most people it would “appear as“/give the impression of a native 4K stream running very smoothly. That is what great TAA/AA and motion blur do for you .

Didn’t digital foundry just watch the same streams we did and make their judgement there

 

[Tomeru]

This thread is amazing. It's alist of people to never discuss things with ever again. Thanks op! I salute you!

 

[DeepEnigma]

If you consider PS4 HDD barely reaches 90MB/s... 9GB/s is 100x more.

Spider-Man was capped at 20MB/s, so some food for thought.

that's because they were watching it on a compressed stream over the internet. harder to tell quality that way

 

[phil_t98]

Spider-Man was capped at 20MB/s, so some food for thought.

How is that goal post moving? As I said earlier the video was amazing but hard to tell exactly how good by a compressed stream.

 

[DeepEnigma]

How is that goal post moving? As I said earlier the video was amazing but hard to tell exactly how good by a compressed stream.

That does not negate from P Panajev2001a original point. At all.

People only "complained" when told. It's all so silly.

 

[Frito_Pendejo]

This should be pretty damn cool. I can’t get enough news about the new consoles.

 

[sendit]

yeah its 100x if you naively believe that next gen games will still stick to using mostly 512 and 1024 textures.
What's actually going to happen is that 4k textures will be used alot more. So "100x" is just pure marketing.

Didn’t know the size of 1 MB is larger on a 4K texture. Thanks for defying reality.

/s

 

[Thabass]

How can you forget
God of War
Spider-Man
And Cuphead

Yeah, there's so many I forgot some great ones! I knew I would!

 

[Mr Moose]

Didn’t digital foundry just watch the same streams we did and make their judgement there

They had direct access to 4k video, as far as I am aware.

Epic Unreal Engine 5 screenshot gallery

www.eurogamer.net

13 May 2020

We have access to 20 uncompressed grabs from the trailer: they defy traditional pixel counting techniques. When the overall presentation looks this good, this detailed, with solid temporal stability (ie, no flicker or shimmer frame to frame), resolution becomes less important - the continuation of a trend we've seen since the arrival of the mid-generation console refreshes. As we said almost two years ago now, next-gen shouldn't be about 'true 4K', the game has moved on and put it frankly - GPU resources are better spent elsewhere.

Hmm not sure if they did have 4k video now lol, but direct images from it for sure.

 

[scalman]

it can be for real that people dont understand what devs had in mind when said 100x faster ... is it ? stopped look at this nonsense after saw first smart responds. yees it will be 100x faster. or more or some less but about 100x. problem ? get over it ,

 

[AllBizness]

PS5 is like PS1 all over again. Devs will be able to make games faster and cheaper on the Sony which will lead to a fuckton of default exclusives and best version of multiplats.

 

[mckmas8808]

This is a misleading statement. Considering the bottleneck that PS4 5200rpm disk imposed, the 100 times faster argument makes sense. But this has nothing to do with the CPU/GPU performance. The fact that cpu is not a bottleneck itself does, but that's not the issue. Sony does not want to talk about CPU because PCs and -even- xbox series X are way faster than PS5 in that regard. Sony's only advantage is the SSD and this is what the are bragging about. But hey these are big statements and most people will say "wow this is amazing".

They never brought up the CPU and GPU. Only you did.

 

[LittleBusters]

This is a misleading statement. Considering the bottleneck that PS4 5200rpm disk imposed, the 100 times faster argument makes sense. But this has nothing to do with the CPU/GPU performance. The fact that cpu is not a bottleneck itself does, but that's not the issue. Sony does not want to talk about CPU because PCs and -even- xbox series X are way faster than PS5 in that regard. Sony's only advantage is the SSD and this is what the are bragging about. But hey these are big statements and most people will say "wow this is amazing".

So I should not pay any attention to John Carmack, right.

 

[Gavon West]

All it means is XSX can do the same rapid loading of the next parts of an open world game but slightly less textures/resolution. This is the only area PS5 will do better. On linear games, XSX is going to do better.

I really hope the advantages of the PS5 SSD is as big a game changer as its being touted. I got a feeling the one in the Series X will do a damn good job too. If that's the case, all this hype for SSD's will be for not.

 

[njean777]

SSD's are nice, but I am still in the camp that we will see faster loading times and less pop-in. That is about it; maybe for some games it will load extremely fast and such, but I do not expect NEXT LEVEL MATRIX level stuff. Could be wrong though.

 

[vivftp]

I really hope the advantages of the PS5 SSD is as big a game changer as its being touted. I got a feeling the one in the Series X will do a damn good job too. If that's the case, all this hype for SSD's will be for not.

In the Road to PS5 video Cerny gave an example of being able to load 4GB of texture data in the half second it would take for your character to turn around in a game. Seems pretty incredible that I could just turn around and realize that none or almost none of the texture data I'm currently seeing was in the RAM before I started that turn.

I imagine we should be expecting some very detailed, very dense worlds because they can dedicate so much more RAM to what you're actually looking at rather than having to reserve a bunch of RAM for what you could be looking at several seconds from now.

How that will compare to what we get in the XSX is anyone's guess at this point. I'm sure there is plenty that has yet to be disclosed about both platforms as well.

 

[Lethal01]

The processing speed of the PS4 is 1,6GHz.

So 160GHz processing speed because of secret sauce SSD?

Yeah just marketing bullshit talk.

It's not bullshit when you have to wait 2 seconds for something you wanted dones several times a frame to do the processing because you need to fetch data from the hard drive

 

[ToadMan]

This is a misleading statement. Considering the bottleneck that PS4 5200rpm disk imposed, the 100 times faster argument makes sense. But this has nothing to do with the CPU/GPU performance. The fact that cpu is not a bottleneck itself does, but that's not the issue. Sony does not want to talk about CPU because PCs and -even- xbox series X are way faster than PS5 in that regard. Sony's only advantage is the SSD and this is what the are bragging about. But hey these are big statements and most people will say "wow this is amazing".

xsex 3.6Ghz vs PS5 3.5Ghz (both with SMT enabled). What are you talking about?

 

[Silent Viper]

If it can load Fallout 4 in 10secs then i will believe it.

 

[phil_t98]

It's not bullshit when you have to wait 2 seconds for something you wanted dones several times a frame to do the processing because you need to fetch data from the hard drive

but where in games like the Witcher 3 when we turn does it take 2 seconds to load?

 

[Panajev2001a]

but where in games like the Witcher 3 when we turn does it take 2 seconds to load?

Like with the DF video, which I agree it is a bit goal post moving (the point is that nobody noticed/complained about IQ or the video being blurry or having any problem with the visual quality until they were told it was not native 4K... and DF had access to uncompressed data and still was surprised about the resolution data as revealed), I think that that is beside the point.

Unless it took like 1ms to do that action there is enough time to keep streaming especialy if the controller is good at performing scatter / gather like operations efficiently (the more time you have available the more data you can transfer, but it is all limited by I/O throughput and CPU performance hit which on PS5 appears not to be a concern).

 

[Stiflers Mom]

I like your optimism, I've been playing some of my favourite games of all time over the past ten (10) years but apparently many people echo the sentiment that there is "nothing to play"...

There is tons of stuff to play if you like the xth version of something that once gave you joy because its concept was new.