South Park: TFBH "Game is Gold" Trailer

Ahasverus

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What I'm surprised the most about here is that Ubisoft is the one making this game. Not Obsidian, not a hired indie, Ubisoft, the most progressive company in the medium.

Why did nobody think this was a bad idea?
 

RPGCrazied

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Not watching. In blackout mode now, but can't wait. Stick of Truth was awesome and this will have a hard time topping it. And really cool it comes with the new game when you buy it.
 

PSqueak

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I bet many people whining about this joke will still buy the game sooo
I fail to see how that invalidates the criticism, how's this different from the recent "That's going to far" moment the WWE had recently?

Just because people enjoy certain product or show doesn't suddenly means they cannot criticize it.
 

Dr.Acula

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Maybe the contrast is off on my iPad, but those lips are incredibly less noticable than the two prior pictures posted of cartoon humans. The fact you needed an arrow I think proves that. I think some people are so comfy in life they find meaningless things to complain about.
Yeah, on my screen that shit is crazy red. It's obvious.
 

basic_text

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For those lacking context, the whole 'Kanye being a gay fish' thing is a call back to a previous episode whereby the kids write a joke (much akin to Wayne's World's "A sphincter says what?" gag) that involves them hurriedly muttering the phrase "Do you like fish sticks? What are you? A gay fish?". The goal is to make sticks sound like dicks.

I wouldn't call that homophobic as such, just juvenile. Bear in mind most of the content is written to be from a child's perspective.

The joke then somehow becomes a national phenomenon with the joke culminating with Kanye finally having enough of not understanding the joke and deciding to live in the ocean, ironically as a gay fish.

I think the mother/video game pertains to how much attention the concept initially gained and him just doing his crazy routine in interviews about it.

Speaking of which, many people over the course of its 2 year development explicitly criticised the concept and execution of it and found it to be of bad taste.

I am in no way defending the fish, I find it to be poorly thought out and offensive.
 
Aug 2, 2007
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I don’t think you can call her blackfaced since the whole fish’s body was black. It’s weird to talk about blackface of a cartoon fish, but if we’re going to, at least be accurate. It wasn’t just her face. And based on Google image searches, it looks like blackface tends to be overtly racist in how lips are presented. That wasn’t the case here either. They weren’t a bright red. It seemed like normal skin tone color for a black cartoon fish, not exaggerated in color or size.
Okay, if you go outside in blackface but paint your entire body black how do you think people will respond to it?

Outside of that the fish is clearly a take on mammy blackface. It has nothing to do with the idea that Kanye's game is dumb. Just like making Kanye gay has nothing to do with anything outside of it's fun to call people gay as an insult.

I don't get why people are defending this or why marketing thought this was a good clip to use.
 

L Thammy

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Maybe the contrast is off on my iPad, but those lips are incredibly less noticable than the two prior pictures posted of cartoon humans. The fact you needed an arrow I think proves that.
I needed an arrow to highlight it because you're trying to be obtuse and claim it isn't there, just like when you said it isn't blackface because it isn't literally just a black face. Seriously, what the fuck. Other people didn't need the arrow to say that it was blackface. There's something special about you that requires it.
 

Basketball

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This should be in the op or something. Seems like a lot of people are unaware what others are upset about.


The only real thing you can say about this is

yeah it plays on old racist caricatures ... no shit
but it's South Park bruh

It's literally what they do to everyone and every race.

No subject is immune. Remember the first game where you perform an abortion on a grown man. The same game with little boys getting anally raped by aliens.
 

Zach

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I don’t think you can call her blackfaced since the whole fish’s body was black. It’s weird to talk about blackface of a cartoon fish, but if we’re going to, at least be accurate. It wasn’t just her face. And based on Google image searches, it looks like blackface tends to be overtly racist in how lips are presented. That wasn’t the case here either. They weren’t a bright red. It seemed like normal skin tone color for a black cartoon fish, not exaggerated in color or size.
And the FISH has lips that look like that human? I mentioned lips in my post. Why’d you skim over that? This is a waste of time lol. I don’t care if you’re upset.
Wow.
 

beelulzebub

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I bet many people whining about this joke will still buy the game sooo
Nah. Cancelled my preorder in light of this trailer and the difficulty slider. These two hand in hand isn't a good look.

Also the usage of words like "outrage" and "whining" is really revealing, as if defending this or ignoring the discussion in the thread wasn't already. Shows casual racism like this is either something you don't live with or are not sympathetic to when it's pointed out to you.
 

Crossing Eden

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Have you seen the trailer? The flying pegasus? The music? It was closer to weird on a weird-normal spectrum to me. I’m not religious at all. Maybe that’s why.
We just had a thread asking for Death stranding to be as crazy as possible. That game is benign by comparison and the point of the game is what's important.

No, it's not the concept of his mum going to heaven I have any problem with.

It's the fact that you, the player, are actually controlling his mum flying through the skies on her way to heaven riding a horse with wings while avoiding obstacles, à la Flappy Bird.

I guess I'm the weird one, because I wouldn't "honour" my mum's memory like that.
Yea, it's weird to compare how you would honor your mother yes.
 

celljean89

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I bet many people whining about this joke will still buy the game sooo

Yeah some that had complained, will probably buy it. But I brought Stick of Trick and now I'm not buying this one. I did the same to the to Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, but anyway it's fucked up, and that's racist.
 

RPGCrazied

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And again, South Park makes fun of everyone. Its just how the show is. Its always been this way since Season 1.
 
Aug 10, 2013
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Joke is in bad taste, but they've done plenty of jokes before in bad taste. The racist looking fish though, oof. Can't defend that. I'll still get it, but I hope they patch that.
 

Zeta Oni

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The only real thing you can say about this is

yeah it plays on old racist caricatures ... no shit
but it's South Park bruh

It's literally what they do to everyone and every race.

No subject is immune. Remember the first game where you perform an abortion on a grown man. The same game with little boys getting anally raped by aliens.
Except again, all those situations normally have a punchline.

What's the joke here that required Donda West to be portrayed like that?

Because none of the people who keep defending this shit seem to have an answer for that.
 

KissVibes

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It's fucking hilarious to make light of someone with mental health issues stemming from the trauma of losing their mother via tragic happenstance. What a fucking knee slapper to, of all fucking things, make fun of someone loving and paying tribute to the person that gave them life.

Someone that posts shit like this regularly



AND OF COURSE they make her look and sound like a fucking minstrel character. Bu-bu gay fish(...) is green because it's a callback! So why isn't his mother green too?



Ya'll dudes that keep 'not getting it' or trying to defend it as 'they do it to everyone!' better not show up in the OT making threads about your personal struggles.
 

Basketball

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Except again, all those situations normally have a punchline.

What's the joke here that required Donda West to be portrayed like that?

Because none of the people who keep defending this shit seem to have an answer for that.
I think the joke would fall in the absurdity of the set up
A gay fish .. Kanye West
Rainbow farting unicorn
Aquaman or Seaman for no reason
Flappy bird knock off to get a dead fish to heaven

who thinks of this shit
 

Linkura

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It's fucking hilarious to make light of someone with mental health issues stemming from the trauma of losing their mother via tragic happenstance. What a fucking knee slapper to, of all fucking things, make fun of someone loving and paying tribute to the person that gave them life.

Someone that posts shit like this regularly



AND OF COURSE they make her look and sound like a fucking minstrel character. Bu-bu gay fish(...) is green because it's a callback! So why isn't his mother green too?

As much as Kanye West annoys the piss out of me, I have always had respect for the real love he's consistently shown for his mother. To make fun of Donda, a person who has been dead for years and never did anything bad in her life that we know of, who was a loving mother and a respected professor, whose son is still deeply affected by her death- which has likely been a major cause of his mental health issues- and to make her a blackface character.... fuck them. Seriously, fuck them.
 
Feb 11, 2007
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The only real thing you can say about this is

yeah it plays on old racist caricatures ... no shit
but it's South Park bruh

It's literally what they do to everyone and every race.

No subject is immune. Remember the first game where you perform an abortion on a grown man. The same game with little boys getting anally raped by aliens.
It's not "playing on" anything - it's depicting a racist caricature. It's not subverting it, satirizing it, making some deep commentary on it. It's using it in the same way it was used decades ago - as a shortcut to humor. The first time I watched the trailer I didn't even notice her depiction, but her voice automatically rang as "mammy"-like and not good.

If you're okay with that, then you're okay with that. But comparing it to a fantastical UFO anal probe scene is dumb.
 

beelulzebub

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I think the joke would be the absurdity of the set up
A gay fish .. Kanye West
Rainbow farting unicorn
Aquaman or Seaman for no reason
Flappy bird knock off to get a dead fish to heaven

who thinks of this shit
Throwing absurd shit with some racist imagery into a blender and drinking a shit comedy smoothie is some low bar, Seth MacFarlane level shit. There isn't any framework of a joke in place aside from "remember that game Kanye was making? Didn't that look dumb?" It's baffling that anyone actually wants to go to bat for this trailer on pretty much any level.
 
Aug 2, 2007
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The only real thing you can say about this is

yeah it plays on old racist caricatures ... no shit
but it's South Park bruh

It's literally what they do to everyone and every race.

No subject is immune. Remember the first game where you perform an abortion on a grown man. The same game with little boys getting anally raped by aliens.
Please tell me you understand the difference between the absurdity of a male abortion or alien probing and the use of a racist caricature that existed for decades to further dehumanise the black populace of america after they'd been seen as an inferior race for centuries?

Not all subjects are immune. Especially when you're two straight, white guys. There's a line to be drawn and even comedians who are aware of it like Mel Brooks stepped over it sometimes when joking about minorities different to them (he understood what it meant to be discriminated against for being a racial minority hence Blazing Saddles was amazing. At the same time he used some really harmful gay stereotypes).
 

SanguineShark

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As much as Kanye West annoys the piss out of me, I have always had respect for the real love he's consistently shown for his mother. To make fun of Donda, a person who has been dead for years and never did anything bad in her life that we know of, who was a loving mother and a respected professor, whose son is still deeply affected by her death- which has likely been a major cause of his mental health issues- and to make her a blackface character.... fuck them. Seriously, fuck them.
This is how I'm feeling right now. They've done stuff in the past I've found questionable, but I wrote it off as "they make fun of everyone". Ignored it, even if in the back of my mind It may have bothered me a tiny bit.

Even so, certain things shouldn't be touched. I believe this to be one of them.
 
Apr 19, 2011
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There is no point. It makes no sense.
Here's the thing. When you attempt humor at the expense of someone else, and it doesn't land, you're an asshole. When that attempt included a racist caricature, that makes you a racist asshole. The 'they are equal-opportunity assholes' line of thinking holds no water.
 

L Thammy

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It's baffling that anyone actually wants to go to bat for this trailer on pretty much any level.
I kinda don't feel like it is. Questioning this makes people uncomfortable, and they want to shut it down, whether by dismissing any criticism of South Park wholesale or by trying to defend something that has provided very little grounds for its defense.
 

Jennings

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Very excited for this game. The first one was stupendous. And if they succeed in their quest to upgrade the combat mechanics I'm positive this will deliver an even better experience.

I'm not a big super hero fan, but I've been a fan of South Park since the first episode aired on Comedy Central back in the 90s. Can't wait for 10/17.
 

Onimusha78

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May 22, 2014
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Thought the last trailer was cool and heard the stick of truth was great but yeah fuck this. This is gross.
 

Basketball

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Please tell me you understand the difference between the absurdity of a male abortion or alien probing and the use of a racist caricature that existed for decades to further dehumanise the black populace of america after they'd been seen as an inferior race for centuries?

Not all subjects are immune. Especially when you're two straight, white guys. There's a line to be drawn and even comedians who are aware of it like Mel Brooks steeped over it sometimes when joking about minorities different to them.
im not comparing the two are the same

Just pointing out that they don't care about any modern sensibilities.
Trayvon Martin, Asian people/Caricatures, Border patrol, the Holocaust, blackface, etc

There is no line that won't be crossed. They have been around what +20 years on all this shit and they are not changing anytime soon. The first game was a success I guess because enough people seem to be okay with it, same reason why the show is still running. If you know all this and this type of stuff bothers you then the answer to whether or not to support the game is pretty clear.
 

Purest 78

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People really think it's funny to joke about someone's dead mom? It's no wonder why everything is going to shit Smh.
 

spad3

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Neogaf, it's 2017, what the fuck is up with people thinking unprompted blackface fish is so damn funny?



Its racism was usually used as a means to illustrate the problems with racism. A character who is supposed to be a "bad" character (Cartman) would exhibit frequent racist tendencies. Here this is just straight unprompted racism without any contextual justification.
it's hilarious because it's meant to mock reality. That's what comedy is. Mocking reality.

Once you start putting up limitations, you ruin the entire purpose of the genre.

For example:

Imagine going to a play, all actors are professionally trained in drama, the play is meant to be a tragedy, but no facial expressions and no tonal changes to reflect mood are allowed.

or

You're watching Nascar, but all drivers have to put their car in neutral and push it around the track because they can't use gas.

or my favorite example:

"YOU HAVE FREE SPEECH*"

* - you can't say this, this, this, this, this, or this. aka you don't actually have free speech.

At some point, comedy is going to offend someone at some level. If you watch South Park, you know for a fact that they don't put restrictions (or prefer not to put restrictions). They make fun of everyone and everything.
 

SanguineShark

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Jun 7, 2007
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it's hilarious because it's meant to mock reality. That's what comedy is. Mocking reality.

Once you start putting up limitations, you ruin the entire purpose of the genre.

For example:

Imagine going to a play, all actors are professionally trained in drama, the play is meant to be a tragedy, but no facial expressions and no tonal changes to reflect mood are allowed.

or

You're watching Nascar, but all drivers have to put their car in neutral and push it around the track because they can't use gas.

or my favorite example:

"YOU HAVE FREE SPEECH*"

* - you can't say this, this, this, this, this, or this. aka you don't actually have free speech.

At some point, comedy is going to offend someone at some level. If you watch South Park, you know for a fact that they don't put restrictions (or prefer not to put restrictions). They make fun of everyone and everything.
I find the freeze peach defense to grow more and more tiring as the days pass.
 

wenis

Registered for GAF on September 11, 2001.
Aug 22, 2007
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Is there anything to the joke beyond calling Kanye gay and blackface? Because I don't get why this is being defended or why it's acceptable from two straight white guys.
because they've been doing this shit for decades so it's ok for them to keep doing it!*

despite those decades being filled with context and nuance and this had none of that besides blatant homophobia and black face!
 

Gattsu25

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it's hilarious because it's meant to mock reality. That's what comedy is. Mocking reality.

Once you start putting up limitations, you ruin the entire purpose of the genre.

For example:

Imagine going to a play, all actors are professionally trained in drama, the play is meant to be a tragedy, but no facial expressions and no tonal changes to reflect mood are allowed.

or

You're watching Nascar, but all drivers have to put their car in neutral and push it around the track because they can't use gas.

or my favorite example:

"YOU HAVE FREE SPEECH*"

* - you can't say this, this, this, this, this, or this. aka you don't actually have free speech.

At some point, comedy is going to offend someone at some level. If you watch South Park, you know for a fact that they don't put restrictions (or prefer not to put restrictions). They make fun of everyone and everything.
This has nothing to do with free speech. Free speech also doesn't apply to everything:
http://www.newseuminstitute.org/about/faq/which-types-of-speech-are-not-protected-by-the-first-amendment/

So yeah, there are things that you still can't say even with free speech.

But this isn't a government censorship issue so it's not even a free speech concern in the first place.

This is why Americans need better civics classes.
 

KRyPT

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Jan 23, 2017
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Absolutely appalling that a studio full of game developers thought it would be a great idea to parody someone’s tribute to their recently deceased mother.

Not only that, but they also chose to explicitly highlight this shockingly bad decision in a trailer for the game.

This might be the only instance I recall where a trailer has made me cancel my pre-order for a game that I’ve spent years anticipating.
 

newsguy

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I haven't watched SP in some time. I know the gay fish reference and I got the making fun of Kanye's game reference. It is taking t a little far to portray his dead mother as Aunt Jemima fish though. I am well aware they cross lines, but I cringed a little thinking "what if the person watched this and saw how they portrayed his dead mother." Seems pretty fucked.