South Park: TFBH "Game is Gold" Trailer

Trogdor1123

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Mar 2, 2012
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Ok, I gotta buy it. I just can't hold out anymore. How does the preorder thing work? Is it on ps4? Do I have to do it digital?
 

31GhostsIV

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Cool. Kanye has gone full gay fish now.

waaaaaait a minute.... have they locked Towelie behind fucking pre orders?

This fucking industry, man.
 

A.Romero

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I'm Mexican so I guess I'm not sensible to racism in general. Southpark has had several episodes where he makes fun of Mexicans, Latinos in general... Even our former President and never really got me offended. I'm surprised people were not expecting stuff like this from them.

Their latest episodes have been amazing in my opinion. I sincerely find their writing pretty good and their social critique is some of the best...

I'm empathic with people that felt offended but I think that they can just not buy the game. If enough people feel like this it will tank and no more SP games will be made. I don't think their should change their stuff to suit everyone's tastes.

I think the difference is that these guys are not carrying an agenda of racism, I think they make fun of a racist society and I believe it's a good way to reduce the negative power of those words.

They make fun of everything and everyone and I appreciate that.
 

VGdrumCovers

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I'm Mexican so I guess I'm not sensible to racism in general. Southpark has had several episodes where he makes fun of Mexicans, Latinos in general... Even our former President and never really got me offended. I'm surprised people were not expecting stuff like this from them.

Their latest episodes have been amazing in my opinion. I sincerely find their writing pretty good and their social critique is some of the best...

I'm empathic with people that felt offended but I think that they can just not buy the game. If enough people feel like this it will tank and no more SP games will be made. I don't think their should change their stuff to suit everyone's tastes.

I think the difference is that these guys are not carrying an agenda of racism, I think they make fun of a racist society and I believe it's a good way to reduce the negative power of those words.

They make fun of everything and everyone and I appreciate that.
A+
 

L Thammy

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Nov 4, 2012
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I live in the US and am very aware of the current social climate. I am firmly on the side of the social progressive movement, I am just reluctant to assume the intentions of others and think it is wise to refrain from the immediately indicting somebody or something as racist. If somebody does something out of ignorance that appears racist, then I think the best course of action is education. Starting the conversation with "that is racist" or "your racist" undermines any effort to educate.

With all that said, I am all for making fun of Kayne West (no public figure should be off limits), but it does seem a bit mean and unnecessary to including his dead grandma in a joke just to further make make fun of him.
What I don't get is how you can live in the US and think someone in North America can just accidentally make a mammy character image and not notice it when these stereotypes were a huge part of American popular culture for, what, 200 years? It's a highly recognizable image.

Code:
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[IMG]https://abload.de/img/fyy5n.png[/IMG]

[IMG]https://abload.de/img/aunt-jemima-20oa8k.jpg[/IMG]
 

PSqueak

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I'm Mexican so I guess I'm not sensible to racism in general. Southpark has had several episodes where he makes fun of Mexicans, Latinos in general... Even our former President and never really got me offended. I'm surprised people were not expecting stuff like this from them.
Im mexican too, frankly there's very little an american cartoon can do to truly offend a mexican given that we're big on self depreciating humor, South Park basically can't do anything to offend a mexican in the way that they can to offend black people.

And that's the thing, you can't compare something like this to making fun of us, the context is not the same, there is no mexican equivalent to that fish. Hell, most nationalities or races don't have imagery that is equal in terms of how offensive it is.
 

Village

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Jan 21, 2013
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Im mexican too, frankly there's very little an american cartoon can do to truly offend a mexican given that we're big on self depreciating humor, South Park basically can't do anything to offend a mexican in the way that they can to offend black people.

And that's the thing, you can't compare something like this to making fun of us, the context is not the same, there is no mexican equivalent to that fish. Hell, most nationalities or races don't have imagery that is equal in terms of how offensive it is.
Thank your eloquently explaining that.
 

RumbleHumble

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Oct 27, 2016
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Neogaf, it's 2017, what the fuck is up with people thinking unprompted blackface fish is so damn funny?

I've never watched South Park. But I always assumed it had its share of racism???
Its racism was usually used as a means to illustrate the problems with racism. A character who is supposed to be a "bad" character (Cartman) would exhibit frequent racist tendencies. Here this is just straight unprompted racism without any contextual justification.
 

L Thammy

Member
Nov 4, 2012
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0
I'm Mexican so I guess I'm not sensible to racism in general. Southpark has had several episodes where he makes fun of Mexicans, Latinos in general... Even our former President and never really got me offended. I'm surprised people were not expecting stuff like this from them.

Their latest episodes have been amazing in my opinion. I sincerely find their writing pretty good and their social critique is some of the best...

I'm empathic with people that felt offended but I think that they can just not buy the game. If enough people feel like this it will tank and no more SP games will be made. I don't think their should change their stuff to suit everyone's tastes.

I think the difference is that these guys are not carrying an agenda of racism, I think they make fun of a racist society and I believe it's a good way to reduce the negative power of those words.

They make fun of everything and everyone and I appreciate that.
Was this a PewDiePie defense that ended up in the wrong thread? What words?
 

Skittles

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Mar 2, 2010
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I'm Mexican so I guess I'm not sensible to racism in general. Southpark has had several episodes where he makes fun of Mexicans, Latinos in general... Even our former President and never really got me offended. I'm surprised people were not expecting stuff like this from them.

Their latest episodes have been amazing in my opinion. I sincerely find their writing pretty good and their social critique is some of the best...

I'm empathic with people that felt offended but I think that they can just not buy the game. If enough people feel like this it will tank and no more SP games will be made. I don't think their should change their stuff to suit everyone's tastes.

I think the difference is that these guys are not carrying an agenda of racism, I think they make fun of a racist society and I believe it's a good way to reduce the negative power of those words.

They make fun of everything and everyone and I appreciate that.
Top tier troll post
 

Meia

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Feb 22, 2013
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Cool. Kanye has gone full gay fish now.

waaaaaait a minute.... have they locked Towelie behind fucking pre orders?

This fucking industry, man.

I'm HOPING that this is also a south park slap against the industry, and that Towelie is in the game naturally, but the pre-order "bonus content" related to him is just that apron he's wearing. :p
 
Feb 18, 2010
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What was the last successful use of blackface in pop culture? Mad Men?

Well actually I guess Get Out took it to another level.
 
Jun 17, 2015
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I don’t know how to tell you motherfuckers that racism is bad, so by extension, putting a mammy fish in a game to be funny is also bad. Fuck’s sake it’s like some of you don’t even have eyes.
 

spindashing

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Neogaf, it's 2017, what the fuck is up with people thinking unprompted blackface fish is so damn funny?
It's a mix of:

- Folks not caring. It doesn't affect them. Folks claim to "not see" race yet not acknowledge racist shit when people complain about it.

- Folks disliking Kanye enough to an extreme that racist references to him are okay.

- Folks just being so far up Matt and Trey's ass that whatever they do, is gold and there's no room for discussion.

Either way, it's a fucking shitty line of thinking.
 

GavinUK86

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lol that trailer is hilarious. the first one was great so i have high hopes for this one too. i get the kanye bit of the joke but why a gay fish? is that a south park gag i'm missing?

edit: fishsticks. turns out it was a joke i didn't know about. lol, nvm.
 

Yushi

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Nov 10, 2014
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So Matt & Trey making fun of Kanye's "Only One" Game showed at E3 2016. Which everyone laughed at or questioned it with a big "wtf"

With the continuation of Kanye's persona of "fishsticks - gayfish" joke of how many years ago.

Then add something that happened to Kanye's recently which has some involvement to heaven, which was clearly shown in his game. Oh his mom died, she's going to heaven!


Honestly, this is step by step Matt, Trey & team kinda of writting. We're at 21 season at this point, 20years making jokes like these. They have the same power as the Simpson's at this point, except more violent and racism. I'm pretty sure their immune to nearly anything now. You either like it or don't.
 

A.Romero

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Im mexican too, frankly there's very little an american cartoon can do to truly offend a mexican given that we're big on self depreciating humor, South Park basically can't do anything to offend a mexican in the way that they can to offend black people.

And that's the thing, you can't compare something like this to making fun of us, the context is not the same, there is no mexican equivalent to that fish. Hell, most nationalities or races don't have imagery that is equal in terms of how offensive it is.
I agree that there is little that can truly offend a Mexican, specially in the side of humor. That's what I meant by saying that I'm not sensible to racism.

However, it doesn't matter that there is no equivalent to that fish. There are many other examples of stuff where stereotypes are made to make fun of Mexicans (for example the episode related to illegal immigrants). As you say, it has to do with the fact that we are big in self depreciating humor and that happens because racist comments, characters, jokes or whatever don't hold the same power with us because we, as a society, have decided that those words just can't be negative in the context of parody.

What I think does matter is to contextualize the way they are presenting the joke or the characters. Specially coming from SP. They have been this way since day 1 and it's been running for over 20 seasons and, in my opinion, it gets better and better. I don't think there is anything that this guys can make that would surprise me and I appreciate their work. I believe it is important that humanity's weaknesses are pointed out and humor is a very good transport for that.

For example, if someone talks about Mexico paying a stupid wall I might get offended because it does have a lot of negative intention. But if SP makes an episode about building a stupid wall to keep Mexicans out of SP I'd laugh. Even if they use the exact same words. Context and intention is everything. However, I understand that some people feel offended and hopefully they are free to not give them money and they can also express their disgust.

They pick en everyone, it's not like they are pushing an agenda and I think it makes a difference.
 
Jan 2, 2011
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Its racism was usually used as a means to illustrate the problems with racism. A character who is supposed to be a "bad" character (Cartman) would exhibit frequent racist tendencies. Here this is just straight unprompted racism without any contextual justification.
I guess the contextual justification would be that Kanye's game is about specifically a black woman riding a winged horse. Here you have a black fish doing the same. Would the joke have had the same feel if she was green like the Kanye fish? Probably. So it seems like this was a step too far. When I watched it it didn't necessarily bother me that they went at it like that, but I knew it would upset some people. That has never seemed to be an issue for them though.

I also thought the depiction of Chef's parents was always kind of uncomfortably stereotypical and racist (moreso than this whole fish thing) but 'tree fiddy' gets thrown around on this forum pretty regularly with no pushback.
 

ken_matthews

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Dec 24, 2014
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What I don't get is how you can live in the US and think someone in North America can just accidentally make a mammy character image and not notice it when these stereotypes were a huge part of American popular culture for, what, 200 years? It's a highly recognizable image.
Because I did not see it, and I know I am not racist. I am sure this is true for many other people who did not initially see it. But once pointed out to me, it seems apparent. If I created that cartoon, and somebody pointed that out to me, I would immediately change it.

But the conversation is still interesting and the different ways people see and interpret things are fascinating. Whenever we look at something, we take a life time of baggage and preconception with us. Each of our lives are different and our perception is informed by our past experience. What does it say about me that I did not initially see the resemblance? What does it say about you that you did?
 
Jun 17, 2015
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______ being something’s typical shtick does not mean said shtick cannot still be bad. Like, if killing people is someone’s deal, I am not just gonna think “Oh well it’s fine since that’s what they typically do.”

Because I did not see it, and I know I am not racist. I am sure this is true for many other people who did not initially see it. But once pointed out to me, it seems apparent. If I created that cartoon, and somebody pointed that out to me, I would immediately change it.

But the conversation is still interesting and the different ways people see and interpret things are fascinating. Whenever we look at something, we take a life time of baggage and preconception with us. Each of our lives are different and our perception is informed by our past experience. What does it say about me that I did not initially see the resemblance? What does it say about you that you did?
I get what you’re trying to say, but you can’t seriously think the people behind South Park didn’t notice that. They absolutely knew what they were doing and that’s the joke. Racism is funny.
 

Staf

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Apr 30, 2013
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Not sure about this game. Haven't watched South park since the early seasons or 'bigger lnger and uncut'. I don't dislike it, there's just too many series to follow. The combat looks really fun though. If i'm done with Pillars of eternity when it comes out i'll probably bite.
 
May 18, 2010
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How about blackface is never ok, even with the "contextual justification". its not that hard people. I'm guessing those that are ok with it have Soul Man on a 24 hour loop and are loving it.
 

VanCityGamer

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How about blackface is never ok, even with the "contextual justification". its not that hard people. I'm guessing those that are ok with it have Soul Man on a 24 hour loop and are loving it.
What is meant by black face here? Is it because that creature which is based on a black person is black instead of white? I'm asking because I genuinely don't understand.
 

A.Romero

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Was this a PewDiePie defense that ended up in the wrong thread? What words?
Sorry man, I've never seen any videos from him. I'm not big on watching people play games on youtube or whatever (It might have to do with the fact that I'm 34).

I've heard of what happened with him and the controversy and I believe it's not a comparable situation given that SP has establish itself as a parody platform for all kinds of shit and PDP is a gamer that used a racist word. I rarely participate in threads related to subjects like this because I, admittedly, have no idea what it is like to be offended by words.

I can't even try to defend this guy because I don't care/know enough about it.

Top tier troll post
No trolling here, just an honest opinion. You can check my post history, I don't post a lot (I have lurked GAF for about 10 years now) and rarely post in threads related to this stuff, much less trolling.

I don't mean to offend anyone, just giving an opinion from the perspective of a person from another culture that some people might consider oppressed, persecuted or subject to racism. I can understand if not everyone agrees and can accept different opinions.
 

RumbleHumble

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I guess the contextual justification would be that Kanye's game is about specifically a black woman riding a winged horse. Here you have a black fish doing the same. Would the joke have had the same feel if she was green like the Kanye fish? Probably. So it seems like this was a step too far. When I watched it it didn't necessarily bother me that they went at it like that, but I knew it would upset some people. That has never seemed to be an issue for them though.

I also thought the depiction of Chef's parents was always kind of uncomfortably stereotypical and racist (moreso than this whole fish thing) but 'tree fiddy' gets thrown around on this forum pretty regularly with no pushback.
I'll admit to enjoying the Chef's parents stuff back in the early 2000s, but that stuff usually felt like a riff off the racism in Loony Tunes. At least with that, they had the excuse of mocking old era cartoons.

Given they even depict the Kanye fish as a different color from his mom, I'm not seeing a whole lot of credibility to the "unintentional" argument, leading me to believe the Mammy reference is intentional. But given the Mammy reference is just a Mammy reference slapped on to an insult joke rather than a Mammy reference that is also subverting Mammy tropes or making commentary on what a Mammy jokes are, I'm not seeing a win here. It just appears to be invoking racial imagery for the purpose of invoking racial imagery as insult and shock.
 

Zero315

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May 1, 2013
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They pick en everyone, it's not like they are pushing an agenda and I think it makes a difference.
The whole "they can't be offensive because they offend everyone" is such a bullshit excuse. Racism is still racism.

They pushed me away when they tried to normalize a gay slur, now this fuckery?
 

Glen Tennis

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Dec 23, 2016
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As a fan of South Park this wasn't funny. And neither was the first episode of the new season I just watched. This kind of makes me worried about the game. I really really liked Stick of Truth and hope this is just some B reel stuff...
 

A.Romero

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Something can be racist absent of a broader agenda.

Splitting hairs on this one is making excuses for the creator's poor decisions.
I agree with you. I didn't mean it's not racist, it obviously is. I meant the intention is not offend or to oppress. In my opinion this makes a difference.

I believe that from the creators perspective it's not a poor choice. It might be if their game is banned or it doesn't sell because of it. Other than that, they are making the game they want and I don't think they are too concerned about offending people. I mean, you've seen the disclaimer shown at the beginning of every episode, right?
 

RumbleHumble

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Oct 27, 2016
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I don't see how what is done here fits what is presented in that link?
It's an invocation of a derivative of Black Face called the "Mammy", used for minstrel depictions of motherly black women. Here Matt and Trey appear to use the "Mammy" to insult Kanye's dead mom. You can see more depictions of the Mammy in pages 3-5 of the thread.

EDIT:
C'mon man, there's a whole list of "Mammy"'s literally on this page.
 

kirblar

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Oct 9, 2010
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So Matt & Trey making fun of Kanye's "Only One" Game showed at E3 2016. Which everyone laughed at or questioned it with a big "wtf"

With the continuation of Kanye's persona of "fishsticks - gayfish" joke of how many years ago.

Then add something that happened to Kanye's recently which has some involvement to heaven, which was clearly shown in his game. Oh his mom died, she's going to heaven!


Honestly, this is step by step Matt, Trey & team kinda of writting. We're at 21 season at this point, 20years making jokes like these. They have the same power as the Simpson's at this point, except more violent and racism. I'm pretty sure their immune to nearly anything now. You either like it or don't.
The issue with this is none of those things, it's the way MomFish passively evokes blackface imagery without saying something about it. If you're going to invoke that imagery, you need to do it with deliberate purpose to say something about it.
 

A.Romero

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The whole "they can't be offensive because they offend everyone" is such a bullshit excuse. Racism is still racism.

They pushed me away when they tried to normalize a gay slur, now this fuckery?
Not an excuse, just an opinion. I can accept that you don't like it. Just wanted to share my opinion. It makes sense to me why they did it. Also, I didn't intend to say it is no racist. It is, and I think they intended for it to be that way. I think they didn't do it with the intention of offending nor oppressing.
 

Linkura

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Aug 16, 2016
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Ok, reading this thread, fuck this, I'm not even giving this a click, let alone playing this game. I love the first game, but South Park has gone off the deep end the past several years. There's no fucking reason to be making fun of Kanye's dead mom with blackface.
 

nkarafo

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so when Cartman dressed like Hitler back in Season 8 and started a race riot chanting the words "We must exterminate the Jews" it was actually hilarious and I'm just an out of touch old man.
He did this because he is Cartman. He is supposed to be the worst person in the world. He made a kid eat his parents in another episode, didn't he?
 

kirblar

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Moreso than that, it was depicting that the use of Black Face is pretty much a Bad Thing.
That and the picnic cleanup scene are the two scenes that still stand out as the show saying "These character's values and norms were not our values and norms".
 

Nights Owl

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He did this because he is Cartman. He is supposed to be the worst person in the world. He made a kid eat his parents in another episode, didn't he?
He did, and he is. I'm pretty sure they *try* to make Cartman the least likable person to anyone sensible.