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Spencer on Why There Are No Xbox Series X Exclusives: We’re Putting the Player at the Center

X-Fighter

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So now forced Kinect, the always online DRM and the no used games thing was just Microsoft putting players first?

That's a new one.
Oh you meant this gen, my bad I thought the coming gen. Yeah they really fucked it up last time "pie_tears_joy:
 
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hey are just saying that the decisions they took, for which gamers wanted answers, were taken because they want gamers to play on every device possible.
Since it is only 1 year, I simply don't believe them. There is no decision, they just couldn't make the games fast enough to meet the deadline. And that is why the lack of Scarlet exclusives is only one year and not anything longer that could have actually benefitted the people waiting for a price drop.

I would have believed them if it was at least 3 years. But just one year smells rotten. There was no decision, just marketing a bad situation and pretend it was intentional.
 

X-Fighter

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Since it is only 1 year, I simply don't believe them. There is no decision, they just couldn't make the games fast enough to meet the deadline. And that is why the lack of Scarlet exclusives is only one year and not anything longer that could have actually benefitted the people waiting for a price drop.

I would have believed them if it was at least 3 years. But just one year smells rotten. There was no decision, just marketing a bad situation and pretend it was intentional.
They knew they were launching in 2020, and they are launching Halo, their biggest franchise. If they really wanted to, don't you think they would've made Halo solely for XSX as an exclusive? It doesn't make any sense that they "couldn't make games fast enough", if Halo and the XSX were in their plans since the beginning...
 
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They knew they were launching in 2020, and they are launching Halo, their biggest franchise. If they really wanted to, don't you think they would've made Halo solely for XSX as an exclusive? It doesn't make any sense that they "couldn't make games fast enough", if Halo and the XSX were in their plans since the beginning...
Halo Infinite was a cross gen game from the beginning, No one ever said it was ever a Scarlet exclusive. But the decision to do this was years before the issues of Scarlet exclusives not making their deadline ever surfaced. So your argument makes no sense.

If XBox want to really scale down games for the One customers, they would have done it for 3 years so that they could jump in when the price drop happens. One Year is not something that matters, except for software that missed the deadline and needed more time to release. 1 year is ecactly long enough to give a AAA game an extension, but not long enough for anything else.
 

X-Fighter

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Halo Infinite was a cross gen game from the beginning, No one ever said it was ever a Scarlet exclusive. But the decision to do this was years before the issues of Scarlet exclusives not making their deadline ever surfaced. So your argument makes no sense.
Haha, why is Halo Infinite a cross gen game from the beginning but their decision to do this for every first party game the first 2 years not? It just doesn't make any sense. Halo Infinite was in development with the idea of it being a launch game for the next new console. If they really wanted exclusive games for the XSX at launch, then Halo would've been one.

What you are basically saying is that IF Microsoft would have a different game finished on time, let's say Hellblade 2, that Hellblade 2 would be exclusive to the XSX, but Halo Infinite wouldn't... Why? What's the logical reason that one first party game would be cross-gen, but the other one wouldn't. It has nothing to do with games not being ready on time, but more with having people buy your software on as many systems as possible and keeping them in your ecosystem.
 

DanielsM

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Haha, why is Halo Infinite a cross gen game from the beginning but their decision to do this for every first party game the first 2 years not? It just doesn't make any sense. Halo Infinite was in development with the idea of it being a launch game for the next new console. If they really wanted exclusive games for the XSX at launch, then Halo would've been one.

What you are basically saying is that IF Microsoft would have a different game finished on time, let's say Hellblade 2, that Hellblade 2 would be exclusive to the XSX, but Halo Infinite wouldn't... Why? What's the logical reason that one first party game would be cross-gen, but the other one wouldn't. It has nothing to do with games not being ready on time, but more with having people buy your software on as many systems as possible and keeping them in your ecosystem.
Halo Infinite is a GaaS game the budget isn't even on the same planet as Hellblade i.e. Destiny clone. Halo has to sell and have 10s of millions of users playing the game. Basically, what they are saying is there is no way between Xbox Sexy and the Microsoft Store they are ever going to have the install base needed. This is could go for other smaller titles but there is no way they have an install base to carry Halo Infinite, they probably won't even have that with Xbone, Xbox Sexy and the MS Store.

At this point they are running out of users, if Sony/Nintendo were in the same position, they would probably have to do the same thing to a degree.... or go to Steam. Or accept the loss. The troubling part is the lack of users on the MS Store, which you figure is installed out the gate on nearly 1 billion PCs... if gamers used the MS Store than this really wouldn't be a problem.

My guess is Halo Infinite will be a money loser (although we'll never know, and its very hard to calculate at this point) as they don't have the install base to support this game without going to other storefronts and devices, which apparently they are having a hard time with. My guess is they'll say 12 million people played Halo or something like that but won't tell how many purchased it or actually paid a full subscription fee for the rental.
 
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Vawn

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Trillion dollar company that could buy four Sony companies?

Psh! Hahaha!
Really? This is your go to defense?

Yeah, Microsoft is s huge company that dabbles in video games on the side. What relevance does that have? It's always been huge and thst has never resulted in Xbox having games comparable to PlayStation or Nintendo.
 

X-Fighter

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Halo Infinite is a GaaS game the budget isn't even on the same planet as Hellblade i.e. Destiny clone. Halo has to sell and have 10s of millions of users playing the game. Basically, what they are saying is they is no way between Xbox Sexy and the Microsoft Store they are ever going to have the install base needed. This is could go for other smaller titles but there is no way they have an install base to carry Halo Infinite, they probably won't even have that with Xbone, Xbox Sexy and the MS Store.

At this point they are running out of users, if Sony/Nintendo were in the same position, they would probably have to do the same thing to a degree.
Why would only Halo need that install base? I think you are correct in saying that Microsoft wants as much people as possible to play Halo, but they want that for every game. Hence the reason they don't want to start with next-gen exclusives. The idea is to get people to buy new games on their platform (One S/X, Windows, XSX) and stay there. Let them spend their money however they would like, but the more people that do this, are less likely to switch towards Nintendo/Sony/Google because their games are at Xbox.

I mean we won't know, but for me it doesn't make sense that they don't have new games ready. It's just about keeping players within the Xbox ecosystem.
 

DanielsM

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Why would only Halo need that install base? I think you are correct in saying that Microsoft wants as much people as possible to play Halo, but they want that for every game. Hence the reason they don't want to start with next-gen exclusives. The idea is to get people to buy new games on their platform (One S/X, Windows, XSX) and stay there. Let them spend their money however they would like, but the more people that do this, are less likely to switch towards Nintendo/Sony/Google because their games are at Xbox.

I mean we won't know, but for me it doesn't make sense that they don't have new games ready. It's just about keeping players within the Xbox ecosystem.
Well, if you are making a 10 year planned GaaS game the expenses are huge, see Destiny. The Destiny franchise has been more or less a money loser and they launched on 4 systems at once, and Destiny 2 launched on PC as well.

There simply isn't the install based with MS to support the game, not everyone is going to play Halo, only a portion. I mean with all the Game Pass things going on its going to be hard to calculate how much is lost but there simply is no way to recoup the money on that install base. Destiny 1 had literally about 160m+ units from which their install base could come.... with MS you're probably looking at 50m or so.

The problem with all this... there is no real easy way of Phil get the install base to support this stuff... because he promised Satya - services. The issue there is it doesn't really make too much sense outside of Xbox as a Hardware. If they were a normal publishers they wouldn't have all these issues... they would make the game and deploy it.

My guess is by Q2 2021 Satya figures out what Phil sold him was bullshit.
 
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Humdinger

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If Sony would allow Gamepass on PS4/5 Microsoft would put it there.
And, of course, Microsoft would put their store, subscription service on PlayStation. Why wouldn't they? They'd be getting the money from PlayStation gamers instead of Sony on Sony's own platform. Now why the hell would Sony allow that?
Question about this: Couldn't Sony kill Xbox by allowing GP on their system? I'm talking about the same full catalog (all Xbox exclusives free, Day 1) GP that MS offers on Xbox, not a stripped down version. If Sony allowed that, doesn't that eliminate the main reason why people would buy a next gen Xbox? People could get everything on a PS5 (minus Nintendo and PC exclusives, of course).

I'm thinking that if Sony did it that way, they could completely undercut Xbox. Few people would be willing to invest in next-gen Xbox hardware. And since Xbox hardware (for all the downplaying of its importance) is the main route through which MS sells their services, that would leave MS with a current-gen pool of gamers that would dry up over time. Few would transition to next gen Xbox owners.

I'm thinking it might be worth it to Sony, to cut off Xbox's legs like this. Yeah, they'd be selling GP through the much larger PS install base, but they'd also be killing their main competitor's chances of selling new hardware.

I suppose the hitch is that, as you pointed out, Sony would lose 3rd party sales revenue to GP (assuming Sony wasn't willing to drastically cut the price of their own service). But wouldn't it be possible for Sony to structure a contract such that they got a substantial cut of the 3rd party games being sold through GP? At a level that would make it worth their while? I don't know the business well enough to say whether something like that would be possible, or whether MS would even go for that sort arrangement.

Anyhow, just some speculation on my part. I could be wrong.

Maybe there is just a lot more Sony fans on here than Xbox fans. Whatever the reason is, it sucks, and is tedious.
The ratio of PS owners to Xbox owners on GAF is slightly over 2 to 1, which is pretty close to the global sales ratio for the consoles. So GAF is actually fairly representative -- not of the US, maybe, but of the world.

I think part of what you're seeing is the dynamic that comes into play whenever there is a majority opinion and a minority opinion. The people with the majority opinion get louder and more confident, and the people with the minority opinion tend to get quieter and more reluctant to speak up. I do think that is happening. I think that happens on all forums, with almost all subjects. It's inevitable. It's human nature, exacerbated by the internet.
 
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Vawn

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Question about this: Couldn't Sony kill Xbox by allowing GP on their system? I'm talking about the same full catalog (all Xbox exclusives free, Day 1) GP that MS offers on Xbox, not a stripped down version. If Sony allowed that, doesn't that eliminate the main reason why people would buy a next gen Xbox? People could get everything on a PS5 (minus Nintendo and PC exclusives, of course).
These companies take losses on hardware because they make all the profits selling games. They can't have another company making the money off of games instead of Sony.

This is the same reason that rumor about Steam being on Xbox was ridiculous.
 

DanielsM

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Question about this: Couldn't Sony kill Xbox by allowing GP on their system? I'm talking about the same full catalog (all Xbox exclusives free, Day 1) GP that MS offers on Xbox, not a stripped down version. If Sony allowed that, doesn't that eliminate the main reason why people would buy a next gen Xbox? People could get everything on a PS5 (minus Nintendo and PC exclusives, of course).
The goal is royalty fees, not selling hardware, the selling hardware is really there to make a closed environment to get... royalty fees.

So, what you are saying is.... Bethesda Software makes say a Prey PS4 version, agrees with Microsoft to put it in Game Pass as a rental.... Microsoft than has some type of app/tie in with PS devices. People subscribe to Microsoft not Sony to rent the game which is a PS4 game which is available on the PS Store and PS Now as a rental.

What you are describing is very inefficient, why is Microsoft needed? You've actually added another layer which isn't needed, and in theory increases costs.... why is Microsoft even involved?

What Sony might do, maybe, doubtful, is Microsoft limits the games to Microsoft only games, so like EA Access, I'm assuming some percentage of revenue would have to be handed to Sony. But in your example, it doesn't make sense to any of the parties to do what you suggest, imo.

All of this will be coming to a sudden end... in due course.

This is the problem with what Phil sold Satya, nobody really wants or needs Microsoft outside of Xbox as a Hardware, and now he is sacrificing the hardware. Their will be no place for MS to go except if they want to get in line and become akin to normal publishers. Microsoft can sell games today on PS today and they can rent games on PS today if they wish.... but that is not what they want... they want to be the middleman. Well, I would like to have wings but that probably isn't going to happen either.

All these "services" really don't make sense outside of the closed eco-system, generally speaking, meaning as a middleman.
 
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Afro Republican

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I like how people are pretending PC overlaps with Xbox enough to cut console sales when the Xbox One will sell over 50 million units and the Xbox 360 was near 90 million.

Even on this site I don't believe even 10% of the forum has a PC that can run these games in high quality and they will be forced to buy an Xbox when a game they want comes out that's not on the PS4.

People have been using this excuse for years it's just not happening. Heck, laptops and desktops you can buy fro $300-$800 at retails are worse not thwn they were in 2007. You would think it would be easier to get a powerful PC in 2020 from retail at such prices but they are basically useless for games unless you spend over $1200 and you'll have to spend more than that for higher settings. Unless you know how to built, which most don't or don't care to.
 

Afro Republican

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Not to mention, some of the most well-known and praised Xbox games, including some of the best selling Xbox games not on other consoles, are shared on PC. Why are people acting like this is new? Weird.
 

Quezacolt

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They should go back and fight the same way they did with the first xbox and the 360, make great hardware and have great games for it. Right now i couldn't care less that the xbox one x has better specs than the ps4 pro, the games on pro don't run or look bad compared to the x, and it has exclusives that people actually care about.

Right now, why should i be excited about the series x? Because it has better hardware? Ok, now show me the games. Oh, Halo infinite, another game from the studio that had no idea that everyone considers Master Chief as the most important character in the franchise.

Hellblade 2? Ok there's more hope for that.

Forza will probably be good too, unless they fuck it up with microtransactions at the start like what happened to the last one (? can't remember)

Gears of war 5 was a good game, hopefully they continue to get better with the next games.

On this gen, outside of Sunset Overdrive, Ori and cuphead, every other exclusive was mediocre, and 2 of those games i mentioned arent even exclusives anymore.


As a gamer, what i care the most is good games, and those are the only reason that matters when i think about what hardware im going to buy, and that is what MS should be focusing. Couldnt care less about gamepass or xcloud or whatever else.
 

DanielsM

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As a gamer, what i care the most is good games, and those are the only reason that matters when i think about what hardware im going to buy, and that is what MS should be focusing. Couldnt care less about gamepass or xcloud or whatever else.
Generally agree, I would buy a Microsoft developed game if I liked it, nothing comes to mind right now but you never know. As a traditional game publisher, I'm all for it, develop the game, deploy the game and sell the game.... cool more games!

As a middleman in gaming, I kind of feel like this...
 

Vawn

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I like how people are pretending PC overlaps with Xbox enough to cut console sales when the Xbox One will sell over 50 million units and the Xbox 360 was near 90 million.
And Microsoft doesn't make anything off of games sold on Steam (aside from their own first-party games, of course) just because of Windows.

People who think PC gaming = Microsoft are ignorant.
 
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Butz

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Saying that the XSX will have no exclusives for a year because of cross-gen implies that after that year it will have exclusives, but Microsoft won't stop releasing on PC anyway so there were no exclusives to begin with.
They simply want to sell the games that are close to being finished to as many people as possible.
 

DanielsM

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Saying that the XSX will have no exclusives for a year because of cross-gen implies that after that year it will have exclusives, but Microsoft won't stop releasing on PC anyway so there were no exclusives to begin with.
They simply want to sell the games that are close to being finished to as many people as possible.
If the true intent was to sell as many games as possible and that was the real goal above all ... they wouldn't be selling on the MS Store. If they wanted to put the players at the center, logic would be to go where the players are, not where they aren't.

Nintendo's intent isn't to sell the most games.
 
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Metnut

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Why would anyone buy Series X if there were no new games for it? Seems like a really odd strategy to me.

IMO, he’s lying. I think you’ll see exclusive Series X games by the end of 2021. If he’s not lying and sticks to this, it’ll be worse debacle than the Kinect.
 

Butz

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If the true intent was to sell as many games as possible and that was the real goal above all ... they wouldn't be selling on the MS Store.

Nintendo's intent isn't to sell the most games.
Of course it's Microsofts (and any other studios) intent to sell their games on as many Microsoft devices as possible. Xbox One, Xbox Series X, Windows Store and now also Steam.
I don't understand what point you're trying to make.
 

DanielsM

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Of course it's Microsofts (and any other studios) intent to sell their games on as many Microsoft devices as possible. Xbox One, Xbox Series X, Windows Store and now also Steam.
I don't understand what point you're trying to make.
That's not what you said.

Also, most of their games are not going to Steam, Halo Infinite has only been announced for MS Store.

They simply want to sell the games that are close to being finished to as many people as possible.
 

Bumblebeetuna

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They should go back and fight the same way they did with the first xbox and the 360, make great hardware and have great games for it. Right now i couldn't care less that the xbox one x has better specs than the ps4 pro, the games on pro don't run or look bad compared to the x, and it has exclusives that people actually care about.

Right now, why should i be excited about the series x? Because it has better hardware? Ok, now show me the games. Oh, Halo infinite, another game from the studio that had no idea that everyone considers Master Chief as the most important character in the franchise.

Hellblade 2? Ok there's more hope for that.

Forza will probably be good too, unless they fuck it up with microtransactions at the start like what happened to the last one (? can't remember)

Gears of war 5 was a good game, hopefully they continue to get better with the next games.

On this gen, outside of Sunset Overdrive, Ori and cuphead, every other exclusive was mediocre, and 2 of those games i mentioned arent even exclusives anymore.


As a gamer, what i care the most is good games, and those are the only reason that matters when i think about what hardware im going to buy, and that is what MS should be focusing. Couldnt care less about gamepass or xcloud or whatever else.
I prefer Xbox for the hardware, UI, and services. Don’t care for a majority of MS or Sony games. But I’m actually very excited about the studios they bought because they’ve made franchises I actually do care about. I’m pretty optimistic about the games they’ll have coming next gen.

Double Fine, Obsidian, inXhile, Ninja Theory. Their games have never lit up sales charts but they’ve been good. Playground has made the best racer probably ever in Horizon 4. Good things should be coming. I think we’ll see a return to some quality games. After all they need them to sell people on GamePass and xCloud.
 
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Butz

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That's not what you said.

Also, most of their games are not going to Steam, Halo Infinite has only been announced for MS Store.
That is exactly what I said, they want to sell their games to as many people as possible on their devices. If that's for some reason not the intent, then please, tell me what the real reason is.
Also, all of their games are going to be on Steam, that is what they said, it hasn't been announced for Steam yet because the game didn't even get a proper trailer yet. It also doesn't have a MS Store page yet.
 
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DanielsM

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That is exactly what I said, they want to sell their games to as many people as possible on their devices. If that's for some reason not the intent, then please, tell me what the real reason is.
Also, all of their games are going to be on Steam, that is what they said, it hasn't been announced for Steam yet because the game didn't even get a proper trailer yet. It also doesn't have a MS Store page yet.
Jesus, that is not what you said the first time.

They simply want to sell the games that are close to being finished to as many people as possible.
I do not believe that is the goal, hence my comment. You clarified, we're all set.
 
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Butz

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Jesus, that is not what you said the first time.
How is that not what I said? What are you even talking about? You don't make sense and you don't have a point.
They want to sell their games to as many people as possible. What is it that you don't get? That I said "close to being finished"? That's because of Matt Booty saying they'll have cross-gen releases for about 1 year.

Now, go ahead, and tell me the real reason why evil evil Microsoft is making games for a platform with an installbase of 50m people.
 

Butz

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I do not believe that is the goal, hence my comment. You clarified, we're all set.
No no, go ahead and tell me what the goal is because I can't think of anything else. Selling games to more people = more profit. That's what a company wants.
 

Afro Republican

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And Microsoft doesn't make anything off of games sold on Steam (aside from their own first-party games, of course) just because of Windows.

People who think PC gaming = Microsoft are ignorant.
I find that people who still believe this after GFWL very confusing, because it's clear they have no control over PC>

Well outside the Windows Store. Which Microsoft used to try and force third parties and their first-party on, didn't work to well.

Why would anyone buy Series X if there were no new games for it? Seems like a really odd strategy to me.

IMO, he’s lying. I think you’ll see exclusive Series X games by the end of 2021. If he’s not lying and sticks to this, it’ll be worse debacle than the Kinect.
There are new games for it, what are you talking about? PC does not overlap Xbox, these are the same arguments people made, even on this forum, in 2005 and in 2013. 98% of people don't game high-end on PC, PC is not going to cut off Xbox console sales.

Remember when some people here were freaking out about Sony putting games on PC? That's just as foolish, not as nuts, but still crazy to believe that Sony is "hurting itself" by putting games on PC.

Most people will buy consoles, and they will buy the console that has the best console exclusives they like that's not on the other consoles. PC is not a factor for most people, while PC has a slowly growing and pretty sizable community they don't compare to consoles for high-end gaming and most people aren't going to buy or build a PC, they are going to buy a Series X or PS5. PC gamers are under this delusion that the are not only insanely important but that "many" people won'y buy consoles if games are on PC>

You'd be surprised athow many 3DO, PSX, PS2, and Xbox games were on PC and it didn't hurt any of them.
 

Afro Republican

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What's this last place stuff? Are Nintendo fans pretending the Switch isn't next gen and the Wii U didn't happen again? ;)

Anyway, on the subject of the Series X and PS5, due to the massive changes in chip tech and how underpowered the Xbox One and PS4 were at launch, power will help with sales of one over the other. Yeah sure each will have it's games not on the other and that will matter, however, the system with the best COD, AC, Madden, etc, will have a pretty great start if the difference is obvious.

Xbox One screwed that up early this gen, it wouldn't have been as bad if they weren't touting power so much before PS4 got that extra GDDR5 and was able to clearly have better early MP's. That along with being $100 more was clearly an issue. Too bad MS didn't see that until 2014 because they thought those early great sales were long-term.
 

DanielsM

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How is that not what I said? What are you even talking about? You don't make sense and you don't have a point.
They want to sell their games to as many people as possible. What is it that you don't get? That I said "close to being finished"? That's because of Matt Booty saying they'll have cross-gen releases for about 1 year.

Now, go ahead, and tell me the real reason why evil evil Microsoft is making games for a platform with an installbase of 50m people.
Reread what you original wrote, okay, slow down. You said nothing about MS devices, you clarified, we're good to go.

No no, go ahead and tell me what the goal is because I can't think of anything else. Selling games to more people = more profit. That's what a company wants.
To sell services, that is their (MS) goal now.

Also, the goal isn't always to sell more games but some other strategy. Sony's top goal isn't to sell the most amount of Sony games, their top goal is to have a close system where others sell games... and they collect royalties.
 
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Quezacolt

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I prefer Xbox for the hardware, UI, and services. Don’t care for a majority of MS or Sony games. But I’m actually very excited about the studios they bought because they’ve made franchises I actually do care about. I’m pretty optimistic about the games they’ll have coming next gen.

Double Fine, Obsidian, inXhile, Ninja Theory. Their games have never lit up sales charts but they’ve been good. Playground has made the best racer probably ever in Horizon 4. Good things should be coming. I think we’ll see a return to some quality games. After all they need them to sell people on GamePass and xCloud.
In this case i would prefer to wait to see what these studios release than to buy the console right away. We don't know how MS management might influence the work of those studios.
 

Memorabilia

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What is Xbox? Depends on what you think Xbox is or gaming is to Microsoft.

Satya doesn't give two shits about plastic, very much the opposite - services. Xbox as a Hardware has been in decline for about a decade and that's not from very high levels. For them to rollout services like Satya likes, which would be following his mobile strategy. The hardware has to be sacrificed, meaning the services have to be expanded to other devices/os/markets. Right?

So, at this point you have a declining install base and now you are making the hardware meaningless to the underlying software, games and service. Right?

So, the closed eco-system is being sacrificed for the services, which is what Satya wants. Right?

The problem with this is... Phil didn't just promise Satya just Microsoft software/games on other devices/os/markets/etc. but the services that 3rd party publishers/developers would use i.e. use Microsoft as a middleman. This is where Xbox as a Service Platform comes in. Right?

The issue with that is three fold, and this is where the problem comes in

1. The closed eco-systems (iOS, Nintendo devices, PS devices, etc.) already have non-competing stores on their own devices, furthermore, even Sony has all the services MS wants to rollout for many years. These closed systems make money thru royalties i.e. licensing for access to the device. So, competing stores makes very little sense, it would be like me having my own store on Xbox hardware. Right?

2. On the open-systems (Windows, Linux, Mac, etc) the large publishers have no real use for Microsoft. They all have their own store fronts, services and subscription models.... unlike Microsoft ones they are actually successful in the open system world. This is why the large publishers generally don't publish to Microsoft's digital storefronts i.e. Games for Windows Live (RIP) and Microsoft Store... they serve no real purpose to them.

3. As the install base of the hardware craters even further, those publishers will start to pull back on support as its obvious Microsoft is moving to the other devices/os/markets for their own software and services. In turn the Xbox games will no longer be needed, at this point we're talking about PC games and any game deployed to the other closed systems.

So, is it doom and gloom for Xbox. I would say if you believe in Xbox as a Hardware, those days are long gone. I would say if you believe in Xbox as a Service Platform for large publishers/developers to use on other devices/os/markets, that isn't going to work. I would say if you believe in Xbox as a Service for Microsoft developed games as a traditional publisher/developer.... I see nothing wrong with that, the problem is that isn't what Phil is promising Satya.

The only future I see for Microsoft is as a large publisher like they were in the 90s, but that isn't going to fly with Satya.

Doom and gloom - I think it depends on what you want from them. If you want Microsoft published/developed games.... well, in theory that can continue... the rest not so much. There simply is limited opportunity outside the closed system called Xbox as a Hardware for Microsoft to roll out services, and rolling out the services will inflict the death blow to the hardware.

Xbox as a Hardware ❎
Xbox as a Service Platform❎

Xbox as a Service for Microsoft published/developed games - maybe
Microsoft as a Game Publisher/Developer ☑
WOW. BRUH... you need to chill. You're gonna bust a blood vessel in your forehead.

Xbox is going to be fine.
 

DanielsM

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WOW. BRUH... you need to chill. You're gonna bust a blood vessel in your forehead.

Xbox is going to be fine.
Oh I'm fine. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Depends on what you want from Microsoft and what you consider Xbox. They have an opportunity to go the traditional publisher route, hard to see any other path than that.

Saying, "Xbox is going to be fine" doesn't really convey a thought though, if you have a real thought, we can talk.... that is what this place is for.
 
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Butz

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Reread what you original wrote, okay, slow down. You said nothing about MS devices, you clarified, we're good to go.



To sell services, that is their (MS) goal now.

Also, the goal isn't always to sell more games but some other strategy. Sony's top goal isn't to sell the most amount of Sony games, their top goal is to have a close system where others sell games... and they collect royalties.
This is the dumbest thing I've read this month.

We are talking about why Microsoft is releasing games on the Xbox One too, about this specific situation and you want to use Sony, who aren't in the situation, as an example? Of course they have other goals, you genius. This is about Microsoft selling games on Xbox One and not Microsoft in general.
 
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DanielsM

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This is the dumbest thing I've read this month.

We are talking about why Microsoft is releasing games on the Xbox One too, about this specific situation and you want to use Sony, who aren't in the situation, as an example? Of course they have other goals, you genius. This is about Microsoft selling games on Xbox One and not Microsoft in general.
Of course they are talking about releasing games, the games will be there to support the services. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Satya would take your piece of stupid plastic and throw it in the trash bin if he could. :messenger_tears_of_joy: His arms are very skinny though so not sure he could lift the new one.
 
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New narrative: As the xbox has no exclusives, exclusives are anti-consumer
This shows you Xbox fanboys will defend anything.

I remember Xbox One DRM always-online was defended at the start of last gen, it was good for developers apparently.

What next, MS announces Series X won't get any first-party content after 2 years, we'll be told 'most people play COD and GTA anyway, so it doesn't matter' 😁
 

DanielsM

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This shows you Xbox fanboys will defend anything.

I remember Xbox One DRM always-online was defended at the start of last gen, it was good for developers apparently.

What next, MS announces Series X won't get any first-party content after 2 years, we'll be told 'most people play COD and GTA anyway, so it doesn't matter' 😁
Well, what's confuses the hell out of me is the business side. I mean, its like there is something in the water or something with these guys. Literally, every day I am like, "Game Pass doesn't make sense on non-Xbox as a Hardware" to someone that is talking about Game Pass on the PS4 or the Switch, etc.

Where are they getting this stuff from?
 

Butz

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Of course they are talking about releasing games, the games will be there to support the services. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Satya would take your piece of stupid plastic and throw it in the trash bin if he could. :messenger_tears_of_joy: His arms are very skinny though so not sure he could lift the new one.
I only play on PC, so what is "my piece of plastic"?
And you still got no point but I guess that's to be expected from a Sony fanboy who thinks GamePass is a bad deal.
 

Butz

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This shows you Xbox fanboys will defend anything.

I remember Xbox One DRM always-online was defended at the start of last gen, it was good for developers apparently.

What next, MS announces Series X won't get any first-party content after 2 years, we'll be told 'most people play COD and GTA anyway, so it doesn't matter' 😁
I also remember when Sony fans hated on the 360 for having paid online and now they defend it when Sony raises the price for paid online.
 

NoMoChokeSJ

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This shows you Xbox fanboys will defend anything.

I remember Xbox One DRM always-online was defended at the start of last gen, it was good for developers apparently.

What next, MS announces Series X won't get any first-party content after 2 years, we'll be told 'most people play COD and GTA anyway, so it doesn't matter' 😁
Meh. It goes with ways. There are plenty of threads that are on here looking to tear down anything MS does. The whole recent gamepass rhetoric about being harmful to the consumer and industry is a great example of this. This will continue as long as some people feel they need to be part of the winning side of a console war... for some weird ass reason.

The funny thing about the digital future MS envisioned on consoles is it is rapidly coming to fruition on all platforms. So apparently their vision wasn't as obscure as some like to make it.

As for the lack of "true" exclusives coming out.... so what. Most new generations are started with cross gen games, it's not anything new. And more often then not the releases that start a generation are not games worth a damn anyways. Memory on here is either short or selective when it comes to this fact. All consoles have been plagued by this and with the cost and time demands to create bigger, more elaborate games, it isn't a surprise.
 
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DanielsM

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I only play on PC, so what is "my piece of plastic"?
And you still got no point but I guess that's to be expected from a Sony fanboy who thinks GamePass is a bad deal.
You keep responding and saying or implying things, than acting like you didn't say what you said.

We are talking about why Microsoft is releasing games on the Xbox One too
GamePass is a bad deal.
I've never said any such thing, I said it was a nothing burger, in this thread I said it doesn't make sense outside of non-Xbox as a Hardware... which is generally doesn't. And all it is - is a fucking rental service.

You're going on my ignore for being a troll, I gave you several chances.
 
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Humdinger

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These companies take losses on hardware because they make all the profits selling games. They can't have another company making the money off of games instead of Sony.
I was thinking Sony could structure a contract so that they would take a substantial cut of the GP sales, thus recouping much of their loss. There would still be some loss, but it would be counterbalanced by killing MS hardware once and for all. But perhaps setting up a contract like that is not realistic or possible. MS wouldn't go for it, for one.

The goal is royalty fees, not selling hardware, the selling hardware is really there to make a closed environment to get... royalty fees.

So, what you are saying is.... Bethesda Software makes say a Prey PS4 version, agrees with Microsoft to put it in Game Pass as a rental.... Microsoft than has some type of app/tie in with PS devices. People subscribe to Microsoft not Sony to rent the game which is a PS4 game which is available on the PS Store and PS Now as a rental.

What you are describing is very inefficient, why is Microsoft needed? You've actually added another layer which isn't needed, and in theory increases costs.... why is Microsoft even involved?

What Sony might do, maybe, doubtful, is Microsoft limits the games to Microsoft only games, so like EA Access, I'm assuming some percentage of revenue would have to be handed to Sony. But in your example, it doesn't make sense to any of the parties to do what you suggest, imo.

All of this will be coming to a sudden end... in due course.

This is the problem with what Phil sold Satya, nobody really wants or needs Microsoft outside of Xbox as a Hardware, and now he is sacrificing the hardware. Their will be no place for MS to go except if they want to get in line and become akin to normal publishers. Microsoft can sell games today on PS today and they can rent games on PS today if they wish.... but that is not what they want... they want to be the middleman. Well, I would like to have wings but that probably isn't going to happen either.

All these "services" really don't make sense outside of the closed eco-system, generally speaking, meaning as a middleman.
Thanks for the response. That makes sense. I did mention that I was assuming a contract could be signed that would give Sony a substantial cut of GP sales, so they'd be recouping a lot of that lost revenue -- enough to justify doing it, in light of the reward of killing off MS hardware once and for all (which would be in their interests, of course).

But I think that the contract I'm imagining is just that -- imaginary, and not realistic. I suspect that, if it were set up in the way I imagine (where Sony gets a big cut), MS wouldn't sign it.

You're right that Sony would probably be fine with a version of GP that included only MS exclusives, but I doubt MS would offer that. They're interested in selling ongoing subscriptions, and people wouldn't maintain their subscriptions just for the occasional MS exclusive.
 
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DanielsM

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Meh. It goes with ways. There are plenty of threads that are on here looking to tear down anything MS does.
If it doesn't make any sense, absolutely. Why not? That's the purpose of the forum, that doesn't mean everyone has to agree.

I see nothing with them not having any exclusives, not at all, especially for Halo Infinite, they don't have an install base other than Xbone. But all these Phil Said interviews are basically cringe worthy and he's talking in circles from the consumers POV. After what has gone on over the last 10 years, nobody is going to give them a break... why should anyone?

Thanks for the response. That makes sense. I did mention that I was assuming a contract could be signed that would give Sony a substantial cut of GP sales, so they'd be recouping a lot of that lost revenue -- enough to justify doing it, in light of the reward of killing off MS hardware once and for all (which would be in their interests, of course).

But I think that the contract I'm imagining is just that -- imaginary, and not realistic. I suspect that, if it were set up in the way I imagine (where Sony gets a big cut), MS wouldn't sign it.

You're right that Sony would probably be fine with a version of GP that included only MS exclusives, but I doubt MS would offer that. They're interested in selling ongoing subscriptions, and people wouldn't maintain their subscriptions just for the occasional MS exclusive.
The one other thing to consider is most of the rentals in GP are already on PS, so nothing is really lost. Its a terrible model, even from a publishers/developers POV... multiple middlemen. The question is WHY? Game Pass on other systems is basically going backwards for everyone involved accept Microsoft.

The large publishers would probably rather Xbox disappear completely and they definitely have no interest in Microsoft trying to squeeze in on their other businesses that don't require Microsoft. The real question is why is Microsoft even needed? The answer is they are not, which is what Phil is hiding from Satya.

On closed systems (iOS, PS, ND, etc.) - Microsoft isn't really needed as these have their own storefronts, subscriptions and services
On open or semi-open systems (PC, Mac, Linux, Android, etc.) - Microsoft isn't really needed as the large publishers have their distribution channels, storefronts, services and subscriptions.

Microsoft just isn't part of the equation.
 
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