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Spencer on Why There Are No Xbox Series X Exclusives: We’re Putting the Player at the Center

Humdinger

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The one other thing to consider is most of the rentals in GP are already on PS, so nothing is really lost. Its a terrible model, even from a publishers/developers POV... multiple middlemen. The question is WHY? Game Pass on other systems is basically going backwards for everyone involved accept Microsoft.

The large publishers would probably rather Xbox disappear completely and they definitely have no interest in Microsoft trying to squeeze in on their other businesses that don't require Microsoft.

The real question is why is Microsoft even needed? The answer is they are not, which is what Phil is hiding from Satya.
Let me ask you another question. Not trying to put you on the defensive. I'm genuinely asking, because you seem to know what you're talking about, yet part of what you say makes me wonder. Specifically...

Do you really think Satya Nadella is unaware of what you say is the implausibility and impracticality of this business model in the gaming sphere? And that Phil understands this, and yet he is hiding it from Satya? That seems like a pretty dark reading of Phil's motives. Perhaps he really believes in what he's doing? I mean, I don't know, but I find it difficult to believe he 1) knows full well that this will fail, and 2) is deceiving his boss about it, in order to milk him for a big-bucks salary.

It's not impossible. I just don't think Phil is that nefarious and duplicitous... I can more believe that he is unreasonably optimistic. Or perhaps that he sees opportunities that I'm not aware of, way down the road (in the mobile space, perhaps, I don't know).
 

DanielsM

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Let me ask you another question. Not trying to put you on the defensive. I'm genuinely asking, because you seem to know what you're talking about, yet part of what you say makes me wonder. Specifically...

Do you really think Satya Nadella is unaware of what you say is the implausibility and impracticality of this business model in the gaming sphere? And that Phil understands this, and yet he is hiding it from Satya? That seems like a pretty dark reading of Phil's motives. Perhaps he really believes in what he's doing? I mean, I don't know, but I find it difficult to believe he 1) knows full well that this will fail, and 2) is deceiving his boss about it, in order to milk him for a big-bucks salary.

It's not impossible. I just don't think Phil is that nefarious and duplicitous... I can more believe that he is unreasonably optimistic. Or perhaps that he sees opportunities that I'm not aware of, way down the road (in the mobile space, perhaps, I don't know).
Phil is just trying to keep his job, doing whatever it takes and saying what it takes... you can see in these interviews. Most of them are basically just a bunch of spaghetti code put together. Satya is a bright guy, doesn't understand the gaming industry, imo, I would say Phil slipped this one by the goalie. All the head Microsoft guys wanted to axe Xbox including Satya, Phil convinced him to not kill it. Phil spared Xbox from the axeman (which not a term I made up), but that came with a catch - services.

This "Netflix of gaming" Phil came up with... well, he had to come up with something. It really doesn't make much sense in the industry, the large publishers control the board outside the close eco-systems... just like we saw Blizzard pull their games out of GeForce yesterday.

Once service revenue continues to fall and never actually grows than the axeman will be sharpening his axe, probably not going to be fooled twice.

'I don't actually know a whole lot about why we're in gaming,' Nadella told him

 
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Branthrax

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Phil is just trying to keep his job, doing whatever it takes and saying what it takes... you can see in these interviews. Most of them are basically just a bunch of spaghetti code put together.

Satya is a bright guy, doesn't understand the gaming industry, imo, I would say Phil slipped this one by the goalie.

All the head Microsoft guys wanted to axe Xbox including Satya, Phil convinced him to not kill it. Phil spared Xbox from the axeman (which not a term I made up), but that came with a catch - services.




You quoted something which doesn’t state what you’re trying to spin the narrative to.....again lol.
 

NickFire

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You quoted something which doesn’t state what you’re trying to spin the narrative to.....again lol.
Honestly, regardless of his sources, he is hardly the only person who believed MS was on the fence about staying in gaming. This is not a knock on MS at all. Companies of that size simply like it better when their capital leads to huge returns (remember Disney killed the profitable Infinity line because the profits were not high enough?). The losses they took on OG Xbox, RRoD, followed by the weak launch of One caused a lot of shareholders to question the continued investment as I recall. That they decided to focus on services, the current bread and butter on the software side, cannot have coincidentally matched up with going all in.
 
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Respectfully, I think you have that backwards with respect to pleasing investors. IMO, the shareholders would love being able to minimize hardware costs while maintaining or exceeding software profits.
While that may be true for the future a lot of time, money and R&D has been put into the new line of Xbox hardware that's coming out at the end of the year. Investors are going to look closely at sell through and not having exclusive games to push hardware sales is going to make the PS5 a much more attractive purchase. Once they abandon hardware for streaming and PC i think the points you have made have a lot of merit.
 

NickFire

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While that may be true for the future a lot of time, money and R&D has been put into the new line of Xbox hardware that's coming out at the end of the year. Investors are going to look closely at sell through and not having exclusive games to push hardware sales is going to make the PS5 a much more attractive purchase. Once they abandon hardware for streaming and PC i think the points you have made have a lot of merit.
Well, you have a good point too. I can counter it with opposing speculation though. That would be at least a chunk of investors might actually like to see a short loss, all in hopes of finally moving to services only. Although now I am doubling down on speculation, and those are rough waters to navigate.
 

Humdinger

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Phil is just trying to keep his job, doing whatever it takes and saying what it takes... you can see in these interviews. Most of them are basically just a bunch of spaghetti code put together. Satya is a bright guy, doesn't understand the gaming industry, imo, I would say Phil slipped this one by the goalie. All the head Microsoft guys wanted to axe Xbox including Satya, Phil convinced him to not kill it. Phil spared Xbox from the axeman (which not a term I made up), but that came with a catch - services.

This "Netflix of gaming" Phil came up with... well, he had to come up with something. It really doesn't make much sense in the industry, the large publishers control the board outside the close eco-systems... just like we saw Blizzard pull their games out of GeForce yesterday.

Once service revenue continues to fall and never actually grows than the axeman will be sharpening his axe, probably not going to be fooled twice.


Well, let me ask the question this way: Why are Google and Amazon apparently going after a similar target as Microsoft, if it is entirely impractical? These other companies also seem to be focusing on cloud gaming, subscription services, and so forth.

Presumably they are trying to reach the billions of people carrying smartphones. There does appear to be a huge potential market there, at least once the internet infrastructure is present and the other technical issues have been overcome. I personally have zero interest in gaming on a cell phone, but that's me. I can see why companies might salivate over the potential market, vs. being stuck with just the "niche" console market.

What am I missing? You're saying Phil is completely out to lunch on this one, and that Nadella is too clueless to know better. Yet Google and Amazon are aiming in the same direction. Are all three of these major companies just drooling over a mirage in the desert?
 
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CitizenX3639

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When your circus barker is quoted, interviewed, hosted, talked about more than any of your franchises tells you everything why they are irrelevant.
 

thelastword

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It's always fun making fun of the loser.

god i cant wait until tlou2 comes out. gonna be in shitpost heaven.
As for the spoiler, When LOU2 comes out there will be lots of our resident "I don't post much any more because of Sony fans, who just overwhelms, they're to much Jan.....These folk you will see them in all their glory when LOU2 lands, there will be talk about, the graphics aren't that great and Sony games get an extra 20-30% average on Meta just because it's Sony......Yeah LOU2 drops the crying persecuted will tell us all about how LOU2 falls short, just like they told us all about the puddle problem in Spiderman or that UC4 was downgraded etc....

What suicide button? Putting the players first? Yeah such a bad idea...
You don't know yet.....Putting the players first as far as I'm concerned is the guy buying a brand new state of the art console in late 2020.....Putting me first means you are catering to me.....Give me the best looking games that the hardware I'm buying can deliver, give me games designed ground up with the evolved technology.......If I'm still on the XBONES, I should have been taken care of for 6 years ongoing already...….If I'm just buying the XBONES now, then there is a whole wack of games in the library to play, you decide if it's worth it as you can get a XBONES much cheaper than you would get a Series X in November.....Don't pretend that giving the guy who buys an XBONES for $149-199 in a new generation should get to play the same caliber games with me the Series X owner.....It only means they will dumb down the game and it's ambition to suit the lower end last gen hardware buyer....That defeats the whole console gen effort or the anticipation for impressive specs in that long next gen thread.....Note, when the specs are finally revealed that thread will phase out and people would be knee deep into what the best devs can push out of PS5 and Series X, not how Forza runs at 4k 60fps on Series X and 1080p 60fps on XBONES.....We've seen that done on XBONEX, it wont be impressive...

Thing is, MS promises lots of Customer PRO-Action, but it never really is....Promises are what they do best, Phil wrote the book......Also, never go on promises, by a company which has not been the most pro-sumer at any time, especially by virtue of their major First Party games still releasing on XBONES, it just means design and graphics will suffer and newer customers of the latest XBOX will be disappointed as opposed to what the opposition will be bringing....The major reason MS lost so badly was because of it's lack of exclusive software to boost mindshare and boost their hardware sales.....To start off by saying they won't have exclusives simply means they haven't learnt a thing and are doubling down on the clueless pill......

So that type of pro-sumerism will hurt much more than it will get people to buy MS's new consoles, if people arent buying XBONES now, you think they will rush to buy them for a cross gen Forza 8? Their software wont be as impressive and Series X buyers will feel silly just buying new hardware and being left in the dust by real next gen looking games from the competition......To trust someone shady, just because they talk a game is a dangerous undertaking, don't hook your hopes and dreams.....It's like if a girl says she has the best pussycat in the world, but when you get there you realize it's only a trapezius.....That's Phil in a bottle.....

Imagine getting upset that more people get to play videogames.
Yet, MS never release numbers to show those tangibles.....Are more people playing? Will more people buy Forza 8 because it's on XBONES or will it get panned because they will say, no ambition, just another Forza.....We could have had this game last gen....>Well it will be clear because it actually will be on XBONES....That's going to backfire hard, people will go where the true next gen hotness is, not if GT7 is on PS1...….MS is always chasing unicorns that don't exist....only to come back and say "I swear I saw something out there".....It never works...
 
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Well, let me ask the question this way: Why are Google and Amazon apparently going after a similar target as Microsoft, if it is entirely impractical? These other companies also seem to be focusing on cloud gaming, subscription services, and so forth.

Presumably they are trying to reach the billions of people carrying smartphones. There does appear to be a huge potential market there, at least once the internet infrastructure is present and the other technical issues have been overcome. I personally have zero interest in gaming on a cell phone, but that's me. I can see why companies might salivate over the potential market, vs. being stuck with just the "niche" console market.

What am I missing? You're saying Phil is completely out to lunch on this one, and that Nadella is too clueless to know better. Yet Google and Amazon are aiming in the same direction. Are all three of these major companies just drooling over a mirage in the desert?
Well, you bring up Google, so are you talking about Stadia? If Google's aiming with Stadia, I certainly am not interested in where they are going. And we will see where Amazon end up because they haven't shown their hand.

People who are carrying smartphones, already have smartphone games that cater to THEM. In fact smartphone games are oversaturated already.

as for if it is a mistake? Well, Stadia is 100% a mistake. So that is 1 out of three. And we will see if the other two came out any better. If you think being rich and powerful makes you smart and infallible, then maybe you should buy a Stadia.
 
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It's not impossible. I just don't think Phil is that nefarious and duplicitous... I can more believe that he is unreasonably optimistic. Or perhaps that he sees opportunities that I'm not aware of, way down the road (in the mobile space, perhaps, I don't know).
This is how I see it (I don't agree with him)... There is also the fact that MS as a whole is moving into the service model (Office 365, Windows 10, Azure, probably everything else). So Phil as a part of MS has to find some way to fit into that recurring revenue model, so I think he gives it his best, and it seems to resonate with some people to some extent, for all I know he really believes it.

When MS released Xbox Live Gold or something nobody though that people would pay a monthly fee to play games online.
 
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NoMoChokeSJ

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If it doesn't make any sense, absolutely. Why not? That's the purpose of the forum, that doesn't mean everyone has to agree.

I see nothing with them not having any exclusives, not at all, especially for Halo Infinite, they don't have an install base other than Xbone. But all these Phil Said interviews are basically cringe worthy and he's talking in circles from the consumers POV. After what has gone on over the last 10 years, nobody is going to give them a break... why should anyone?



The one other thing to consider is most of the rentals in GP are already on PS, so nothing is really lost. Its a terrible model, even from a publishers/developers POV... multiple middlemen. The question is WHY? Game Pass on other systems is basically going backwards for everyone involved accept Microsoft.
Forums are great for expressing opinion, but acting like bias only resides on one side is disingenuous.

Secondly anybody who has gone though a generation of gaming or has an inkling of common sense knows that the first year or so of a new generation are chalk full of cross gen titles. There is no talking in circles... it's been well established with every new generation for the last 20 years. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduct that games that cost millions of dollars to produce and take several years to develop are going to be offered to the largest install base.

Personally I'll give them the benefit of the doubt because realistically MS has done more than most for trying to listen to their consumer base in order to make improvements to their platform.
 
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X-Fighter

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Imagine wanting the lowest common denominator in your hobby. That's why you're already here I see.
Let's wait for the games, right? In that first year all those PS5 exclusive games must look so much better than anything else on XSX. You're setting yourself up for failure by saying games will be held back in the XSX
 
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imnotkleenex

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oh wow .. so he said " not everybody can afford to go out and spend 60 bucks on a new game " .. on the other hand , not everyone can afford to have a good internet speed and pay more than 60 bucks too Spencer .. and that Exclusives talk WTF !

I can see many words flying around with 0 understanding what the players want
Except I don’t need to pay 60$ per game, I get Game Pass Ultimate on sale for less than the price of 2 games per year and I download them which anyone can do even with a shitty connection.
 

MilkyJoe

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Funny how many willfully act like a dunce to fly the flag of their favourite toys :messenger_grinning_smiling:
 

Captain Hero

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Except I don’t need to pay 60$ per game, I get Game Pass Ultimate on sale for less than the price of 2 games per year and I download them which anyone can do even with a shitty connection.
you can and you are right But
" Not everyone "
As I said in my OPINION
 
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Secondly anybody who has gone though a generation of gaming or has an inkling of common sense knows that the first year or so of a new generation are chalk full of cross gen titles.
The difference is one platform holder has plans for a mix of "next-gen" games along side their current gen releases, while the other only plans to release cross gen titles for the foreseeable future. Both are very likely to run previous gen games with improvements of some sort.

So the real question is what will make Sony's games more "next-gen", other than the fact that you need a new console (offering games to those on you older console is preferable, whenever it's possible in a decent way).
 

Humdinger

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Well, you bring up Google, so are you talking about Stadia? If Google's aiming with Stadia, I certainly am not interested in where they are going. And we will see where Amazon end up because they haven't shown their hand.

People who are carrying smartphones, already have smartphone games that cater to THEM. In fact smartphone games are oversaturated already.

as for if it is a mistake? Well, Stadia is 100% a mistake. So that is 1 out of three. And we will see if the other two came out any better. If you think being rich and powerful makes you smart and infallible, then maybe you should buy a Stadia.
Come on, no need for snark. I'm asking the question of Daniel, because he's saying Phil understands this is an idea that will fail, and he's fooling Nadella about it. I'm suggesting that maybe that's not the case, because here are two other major tech giants, similar to MS in some ways, who are going after the same/similar target. So perhaps it is not something Phil is knowingly pulling the wool over Satya's eyes about. Perhaps there is a potential which all of these companies see.

Now whether that potential will actually be realized, and how long it might take, and what it might look like, those are other questions.
 

TBiddy

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Well, let me ask the question this way: Why are Google and Amazon apparently going after a similar target as Microsoft, if it is entirely impractical? These other companies also seem to be focusing on cloud gaming, subscription services, and so forth.

Presumably they are trying to reach the billions of people carrying smartphones. There does appear to be a huge potential market there, at least once the internet infrastructure is present and the other technical issues have been overcome. I personally have zero interest in gaming on a cell phone, but that's me. I can see why companies might salivate over the potential market, vs. being stuck with just the "niche" console market.

What am I missing? You're saying Phil is completely out to lunch on this one, and that Nadella is too clueless to know better. Yet Google and Amazon are aiming in the same direction. Are all three of these major companies just drooling over a mirage in the desert?
You're not going to get solid answers from DanielsM. He has yet to post anything with substance. All his posts are a mixture of "Poor business", "Spencer sold Nadella snake oil" and other vague statements wrapped in a lot of words. I mean, he actually wrote this sentence "Satya is a bright guy, doesn't understand the gaming industry, imo, I would say Phil slipped this one by the goalie". As in he legitimately believes (apparantly) that Phil Spencer has somehow managed to fool Nadella. This just shows that he has absolutely no clue how a business is actually run.

Also there's not a single number anywhere to back up his claims. He knows that, which is why he dodges those questions.

I know he's (DanielsM) is well articulated. But many people are. That doesn't mean they have anything worth saying.
 
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You're not going to get solid answers from DanielsM. He has yet to post anything with substance. All his posts are a mixture of "Poor business", "Spencer sold Nadella snake oil" and other vague statements wrapped in a lot of words. I mean, he actually wrote this sentence "Satya is a bright guy, doesn't understand the gaming industry, imo, I would say Phil slipped this one by the goalie". As in he legitimately believes (apparantly) that Phil Spencer has somehow managed to fool Nadella. This just shows that he has absolutely no clue how a business is actually run.

Also there's not a single number anywhere to back up his claims. He knows that, which is why he dodges those questions.

I know he's (DanielsM) is well articulated. But many people are. That doesn't mean they have anything worth saying.
DanielsM 's views are simple. He believes that Spencer was forced by Nadella to focus on Services, when that is a detriment to Xbox. And that this explains why Xbox overall seems schizophrenic in terms of wanting to either sell consoles or go third party. You clearly can't do both, but Phil is forced into doing both.

Scarlet need to be a smashing success to survive. Any less than that and it is lights out.
 

DanielsM

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DanielsM 's views are simple. He believes that Spencer was forced by Nadella to focus on Services, when that is a detriment to Xbox. And that this explains why Xbox overall seems schizophrenic in terms of wanting to either sell consoles or go third party. You clearly can't do both, but Phil is forced into doing both.

Scarlet need to be a smashing success to survive. Any less than that and it is lights out.
Microsoft moved to services (cloud services) 10 years ago, its just the general consumer didn't and to a degree still doesn't get what that is.

Interesting enough Ballmer didn't want to give up on devices completely, he actually bought Lumia division from Nokia right before he left. What did Satya do, wrote it down and laid everyone off a year later. Phil has to get 10s of millions of subscribers on some type of service in the coming years, heck, maybe he can actually make streaming something someone likes... I have serious doubts, but that is where they are now.... services or bust.

Without somehow making streaming a mass product, its hard to imagine where their services can go though... so to me in gaming its cloud gaming or bust for Microsoft.


Hardware customers are expendable for subscription customers. The issue is, their hardware customers are the only ones paying for subscriptions.

Even if one believes in all these services, its a very tough road, imo i.e. not easy.

 
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Memorabilia

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Oh I'm fine. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Depends on what you want from Microsoft and what you consider Xbox. They have an opportunity to go the traditional publisher route, hard to see any other path than that.

Saying, "Xbox is going to be fine" doesn't really convey a thought though, if you have a real thought, we can talk.... that is what this place is for.
To imply you are in any way ready or willing to have a rational discussion about the Xbox brand is quite a stretch. To do that we'd have to agree on your premise which is ridiculous on its face. You're just contributing to more "me too-ism" with all the breathless cheerleading for the Xbox brand to disappear. Just stop man your posts on this topic are asinine. 😅🤦‍♂️
 

DanielsM

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To imply you are in any way ready or willing to have a rational discussion about the Xbox brand is quite a stretch. To do that we'd have to agree on your premise which is ridiculous on its face. You're just contributing to more "me too-ism" with all the breathless cheerleading for the Xbox brand to disappear. Just stop man your posts on this topic are asinine. 😅🤦‍♂️
Hm. Its funny I probably have more Microsoft devices (most defunct) and work with more Microsoft services on a daily basis than probably anyone on the forum. I mean who else has a MS Surface on one side of their desk and a 8-inch Windows Tablet sitting on the other side? What about my Windows Phone I just moved from last month? You have one of those? Bet you never even heard of it. :messenger_tears_of_joy: What about the Zune, you got one of those?

I have no idea what a "Xbox" brand is, a brand has nothing to do with their strategy. If they want to go back to being a traditional publishers and use Xbox instead of Microsoft Game Studios, I could see that working if they can make good games. Their current strategy to me has limited chances of success but even if it does -> to da clouds you go.

Just stop man your posts on this topic are asinine
Yet, you didn't point out what is asinine, so what does that make your post? fyi, most of what I talk about is mostly either obvious observations or microsoft saying it themselves.

I would probably observe that you are between steps 1 and 2, denial/isolation and anger. (everything will be fine once you get to step 5)
 
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Memorabilia

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Hm. Its funny I probably have more Microsoft devices (most defunct) and work with more Microsoft services on a daily basis than probably anyone on the forum. I mean who else has a MS Surface on one side of their desk and a 8-inch Windows Tablet sitting on the other side? What about my Windows Phone I just moved from last month? You have one of those? Bet you never even heard of it. :messenger_tears_of_joy: What about the Zune, you got one of those?

I have no idea what a "Xbox" brand is, a brand has nothing to do with their strategy. If they want to go back to being a traditional publishers and use Xbox instead of Microsoft Game Studios, I could see that working if they can make good games. Their current strategy to me has limited chances of success but even if it does -> to da clouds you go.



Yet, you didn't point out what is asinine, so what does that make your post? fyi, most of what I talk about is mostly either obvious observations or microsoft saying it themselves.

I would probably observe that you are between steps 1 and 2, denial/isolation and anger. (everything will be fine once you get to step 5)
Your entire premise is 100% speculation. You're totally full of 💩. Your whole fantasy story about how Phil "fooled" Nadala is straight up laughable. I mean bruh you're writing NOVELS of this crap as if you have any idea what you're talking about. You don't. 😅 🤦‍♂️