Spinoff Discussion: The schism between Asian men and Asian women

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Chaos2Frozen

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Well it's obviously not true, but it's generally said by people who do have trouble telling Asian people apart for whatever reason. I could almost understand someone having this kind of difficulty if they don't often see Asians around them, but in his case, he does have tons of Asian friends in his circle, so I really don't get it. :S
I'm in UK studying and my friends there asked me how can I tell if a person is Chinese/Japanese/Korean.

I told him when they open their mouth I would know =p

In any case that guy you're referring to was probably just kidding. I know I like to mess with some people who thinks wielding a chopstick is magic.
 

Ratrat

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Asian Americans of both genders who are U.S.-raised are much more likely to be married to Whites than their non-U.S.-raised counterparts. Of all the Asian American groups studied, Indian Americans showed the highest rates of endogamy, with the overwhelming majority of Indian American women and men marrying Indian American partners. Indian Americans were also the only Asian American group with higher outmarriage for men, whereas all other Asian American groups had higher outmarriage for women.[14] A 1998 Washington Post article states 36% of young Asian Pacific American men born in the United States married White women, and 45% of U.S.-born Asian Pacific American women took White husbands during the year of publication.[15]

[wikipedia]
I know people like to pretend it's SUPER rare because Asian guys are ugly and girls don't like them etc. But it's not even that unusual, like you I know many Asian guys who've married outside their race. Even if they do lag behind the demand for Asian women(apparently everyone does).
 

YoungHav

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LOL @ Sam Healy barging into this thread and giving his two cents on Asian men. There is nothing "superficially effeminate" about Asian men, go outside.
Well at least we'll have relationships. :)
ether lol.
Really? I would have thought that Asians in general would be the least flexible, as shown in the OP's graph. I see white guys dating everybody. Marrying on the other hand, is a whole different story I imagine.
Thinking about it further my observation is probably skewered due to my hometown currently being a lot more diverse than it was growing up. The white guys just tended to stick to white women and I pretty much went to school with 3 East Asian women total until I went to college. There are probably more IR relationships going on across the board back home nowadays.
 

Chaos2Frozen

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LOL @ Sam Healy barging into this thread and giving his two cents on Asian men. There is nothing "superficially effeminate" about Asian men, go outside.
I honestly don't even know what he means by "superficial feminine". I'm more confused than insulted.

Is it like, fake femininity? Or like are we all J/K Pop Idols?
 

maomaoIYP

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I thought YNnNY-chan was white :O

On topic: I didn't post anything in here at first because I felt that as a man who is ancestrally Chinese living in SE Asia, I didn't have a horse in this race.

However I realized that although my upbringing is predominantly western influenced (I was raised in a country that used English as the main language), I tend to be mostly interested in women from China. I do find white women attractive, but that is mostly due to influences from media representation, but I would never consider marrying one.
 

Chaos2Frozen

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I thought YNnNY-chan was white :O

On topic: I didn't post anything in here at first because I felt that as a man who is ancestrally Chinese living in SE Asia, I didn't have a horse in this race.

However I realized that although my upbringing is predominantly western influenced (I was raised in a country that used English as the main language), I tend to be mostly interested in women from China. I do find white women attractive, but that is mostly due to influences from media representation, but I would never consider marrying one.
Hmmmm... This all seems very familiar to my background as well =3

For me though I started having a horse when I went to UK for studies. That's when I started noticing the "White women no like Asian men" thing, nothing too overt though.
 

dragonelite

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Here i thought it was my awkwardness, nope its probably because im half asian i have bad luck with females...

its totally my awkwardness, my little brother has no bad luck with females
 

Kaze Kyou

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When I was in Taiwan working, I noticed that there was a growing contempt from Taiwanese women towards Taiwanese men - at least, for the younger generation. They seemed to think that Taiwanese guys were too "媽寶" (Mā Bǎo - Mama's Boy) and were not only weak, but too filial and traditional. Most of these women had foreign boyfriends/husbands, and while those foreign guys weren't the best looking or nicest guys, they were in-demand for the feeling of security, the rebellion against traditional/conservative parents and a westerner's tendency to be more independent.

Conversely, the foreign guys I spoke to thought of Asian women as "easy" - easy to fool and fool around with, and easily disposable.

I'm assuming the stuff written in the OP is only in America - at least in Melbourne, Australia, I see a lot of interracial couples. Chinese+Indian, Middle-Eastern+English, African French+Aussie; you can see a lot of cool mixes here.
 

Bennettt2

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Nah, fuck that!

This thread shouldn't be to discourage Asian men because that's already what is happening.

It's about Asian men recapturing their masculinity and bucking these stereotypes instead of caving under their pressure.

Being aware of the perceptions that are out there are a tough pill to swallow but if you are aware you can do something about it.

A positive way to look at it is if women, and Asian women especially, see Asian men as stereotypically a certain way, if you portray confidence and strength in a way they wouldn't expect, women with suddenly see your value and you stick out from all the other guys they would have written off. Sure, it doesn't help on dating sites or apps or other social situations where a girl will have predetermined reasons to turn you down or not even give you a chance and media representation won't change overnight, but don't let that stop you from trying to prove her prejudices wrong.

You can either submit to being categorized as another boring, unattractive Asian male with all the negativity associated with that or be a fucking fire breathing unicorn that women will fight each other to get a chance to ride.
I totally get you. It's about thinking for yourself and also challenging yourself. Related - Kurt Lewin, a highly regarded psychologist, says:
'You cannot understand a system unless you try to change it'.
also
'A person who has learned to see how much his own fate depends upon the fate of his entire group will be eager to take over a fair share of responsibility for its welfare'
 

YoungHav

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I honestly don't even know what he means by "superficial feminine". I'm more confused than insulted.

Is it like, fake femininity? Or like are we all J/K Pop Idols?
LOL. It truly is one of the more bizarre series of posts I've seen in a while.
 

YesNOnoNOYes

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I thought YNnNY-chan was white :O

On topic: I didn't post anything in here at first because I felt that as a man who is ancestrally Chinese living in SE Asia, I didn't have a horse in this race.

However I realized that although my upbringing is predominantly western influenced (I was raised in a country that used English as the main language), I tend to be mostly interested in women from China. I do find white women attractive, but that is mostly due to influences from media representation, but I would never consider marrying one.
And I thought maomao-chan was a girl (for the longest time!) XD

Why are you mostly interested in women from China? Curious~

I honestly don't even know what he means by "superficial feminine". I'm more confused than insulted.

Is it like, fake femininity? Or like are we all J/K Pop Idols?
I know, right? He never really explained it, so I am still scratching my head over it.

I mean, in my opinion, most Asian men are actually not feminine, superficial or not. I mean, even the actors we've mentioned in the thread, none of them would fall under 'effeminate men' .... at least to me. Seriously, John Cho, Steven Yuen, Fast and Furious' Sung Kang, Ken Watanabe, etc. etc. these are pretty FAR from the notion of effeminate men....

so yeah, okay, some might be shorter and not as hairy? But how does that lead to 'femininity'? Would any of you really call the Raid main actor as 'superficially feminine' JUST BECAUSE he's shorter and not as hairy and has somewhat non-angular features?

:3

It's like I said, unless we are ONLY using J/K Pop Culture boys as the baseline, this notion is laughable. I see Asian men in real and none of them look remotely like the boys in those J/KPop video clips :x
 

Bleepey

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You're a curious one aren't you.
Hmmmm... This all seems very familiar to my background as well =3

For me though I started having a horse when I went to UK for studies. That's when I started noticing the "White women no like Asian men" thing, nothing too overt though.
At uni the Asian dudes didn't do too badly when it came to the ladies. I can't think of any that didn't have a girl at one point. I saw them date pretty much everything.
 

Chaos2Frozen

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I know, right? He never really explained it, so I am still scratching my head over it.

I mean, in my opinion, most Asian men are actually not feminine, superficial or not. I mean, even the actors we've mentioned in the thread, none of them would fall under 'effeminate men' .... at least to me. Seriously, John Cho, Steven Yuen, Fast and Furious' Sung Kang, Ken Watanabe, etc. etc. these are pretty FAR from the notion of effeminate men....

so yeah, okay, some might be shorter and not as hairy? But how does that lead to 'femininity'? Would any of you really call the Raid main actor as 'superficially feminine' JUST BECAUSE he's shorter and not as hairy and has somewhat non-angular features?

:3

It's like I said, unless we are ONLY using J/K Pop Culture boys as the baseline, this notion is laughable. I see Asian men in real and none of them look remotely like the boys in those J/KPop video clips :x
Like, it's only a really small sub group of guys... That's why we could only give the same example of "J-Pop/K-pop idols".

I think he was also talking about Asians being less muscular or something...

At uni the Asian dudes didn't do too badly when it came to the ladies. I can't think of any that didn't have a girl at one point. I saw them date pretty much everything.
Were they in Engineering =p ?
 

Droplet

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I am half Chinese and half white, and as many people expect, my mom is Chinese and my dad is white. My mom doesn't actually come from China, nor was she born in the US where she later met my dad, so it's a little bit more of a unique experience here.

My mom is racist, sexist, homophobic, and classist, despite her own assertions that she's not because she's fairly liberal. She doesn't believe in denying people rights in law form, which is fine, but when she speaks in the privacy of our home, she believes being white, acting like a "man", being straight, and being in the upper middle class is the best. Fine, whatever. My mom only dated white men, and predominantly Jewish men, before she met my dad. I used to think this was just a preference of hers as I thought it was a preference of mine, until later I realized it wasn't an actual preference of mine because I honestly didn't care that much about race at all, it was just that I'd been told so many times that dating white men is the best that I believed it. My mom also told me multiple times that her mom was crazy (which...well, she is, she has dementia), but it was only after she drunkenly ranted to me one night that her mother had so much potential but her father, my grandfather, was the one who kept keeping her from accomplishing things, that I realized she just didn't want to be her mother.

My mom is a very unabashed person who will say or do whatever she needs to get things done. I feel that this is very counter to the subservient woman her mom was, and in a way I think it was also to rebel against the Chinese culture, as in, my grandfather and my grandmother's upbringing, that kept her mom down, and to assimilate quickly and easily into American culture. She yells at me for being subservient, she doesn't want me to be gay, she wants me to marry a white man, and she won't stop talking about how much people make and how little I will make in the future. I understand this because I think my mom is annoyed that somehow I, born in the US and given these nice white genes and a pretty face, somehow seem to be wasting all the effort she put in to be...well, "better" than everyone else in her situation. Like, she judges all these people because she thinks better society judges them this way, and she thinks if someone somehow doesn't fit the standards of better society, as in, cis straight white male society, then she has to judge them too because they didn't assimilate into that society as well as she did.

As I just said it's a personal story so clearly this is my own belief based on my own experiences. But I do think, at least in the US, I believe part of it is assimilation - as in, the US thinks white guys are the best, so the people who desperately want to assimilate most also think white guys are the best. And when you take all that media and superiority and shove it at other countries, I feel that people can also tend to buy into it as well.

Here i thought it was my awkwardness, nope its probably because im half asian i have bad luck with females...

its totally my awkwardness, my little brother has no bad luck with females
Starting with calling women something other than females would be a start.
 

MikeyB

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I'm white and surrounded by white-asuan relationships. Female cousin married a Filipino guy, male cousin married a Japanese lady, two good female friends married and have kids with a Chinese dude and a Vietnamese dude. I'm probably going to marry my Chinese girlfriend.

When I see these stats from things like OKCupid, I don't know what the response should be. Stop using white people so much in popular media? For sure, but dating stats aren't the only reason for that. In any case, they leave me feeling vaguely guilty.
 

maomaoIYP

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And I thought maomao-chan was a girl (for the longest time!) XD

Why are you mostly interested in women from China? Curious~
Lol, I remember the first time you said that.
Over here people from China tend to get a bad rep, especially from the local chinese population. Mostly it stems from a difference in cultural norms and complete ignorance, and the end result is that local chinese tend to feel superior, and it's racism at it's worst (Chinese being racist against....Chinese). But as a grad student I got to meet and work with a lot of them, and most of them really don't deserve the bad rep; they're just regular people.
Anyway, long story short, they only women who were ever willing to see past my exterior were from China. They tend to be less critical about the way people look because China is a huge country with an enormous variations in physical traits, and the way they see it, Chinese is Chinese. Being more westernized just made me feel embarrassed that I was not as in touch with my origins as much as I should be. So yeah, I would prefer marrying a woman from China.
 

YesNOnoNOYes

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Lol, I remember the first time you said that.
Over here people from China tend to get a bad rep, especially from the local chinese population. Mostly it stems from a difference in cultural norms and complete ignorance, and the end result is that local chinese tend to feel superior, and it's racism at it's worst (Chinese being racist against....Chinese). But as a grad student I got to meet and work with a lot of them, and most of them really don't deserve the bad rep; they're just regular people.
Anyway, long story short, they only women who were ever willing to see past my exterior were from China. They tend to be less critical about the way people look because China is a huge country with an enormous variations in physical traits, and the way they see it, Chinese is Chinese. Being more westernized just made me feel embarrassed that I was not as in touch with my origins as much as I should be. So yeah, I would prefer marrying a woman from China.
Oh yesh, I heard about this self-racism thingy.... a lot of it, I think, is cuz of classism too?

I'm glad you found women who would look past the cover of the book! :D
 

Timbuktu

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Oh yesh, I heard about this self-racism thingy.... a lot of it, I think, is cuz of classism too?

I'm glad you found women who would look past the cover of the book! :D
It is a lot about class and wealth, you have that in many Asian societies and also in the west between people from different regions and accents.

You would hear parents in affluent areas of HK and China speaking to their kids exclusively in English because at the end it is a mark or status and studying abroad (rightly or wrongly) is seen as a way up.

You have the same things where immigrants or their kids, after being naturalised, would be supporting immigration rules becoming more strict to protect their own privileges. The situation in HK with mainland Chinese is more complicated and I digress. The question of social group and identity is not just about race. The choice of spouse or even a date is probably more nuanced than that as well.
 

G.ZZZ

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With how much westerners (mostly americans tbh) are fixated on everything having to be huge and shit, it's no surprise they'd call asians "feminine" since they're usually slender.

When someone tell you looks "feminine" you should tell them that we looks all fat.
 

YesNOnoNOYes

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With how much westerners (mostly americans tbh) are fixated on everything having to be huge and shit, it's no surprise they'd call asians "feminine" since they're usually slender.

When someone tell you looks "feminine" you should tell them that we looks all fat.
XD ok this made laugh out loud! genius, too :)
 

GoutPatrol

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I am White, and am currently dating an Asian woman in Taiwan. We have been dating for about 2 1/2 years now. She has told me that she has only dated white guys in the past. I think she does it because of her very conservative upbringing with very, very traditional parents. Her parents basically refused to acknowledge my existence until a couple months ago.

And well...I've only been in relationships with asian girls as well. It wasn't like I wasn't interested in other people, but that is how it shook out. When I was in college I had asian roommates most of the time, and I hung out with them alot, and they were hanging out with mostly asians, and so I was kind of a token white jewish friend for them. And when I moved to Taiwan for work, well...that's the pool.

At my job, most of the relationships are White Male/Asian Female as well, but most of my co-workers are white male (teaching at an international school.) There is one Indian male/Asian female and one Asian Male/White Female marriage as well. Having lived in Taiwan for 4 years now, it seems like a bit of a pattern: more men come here for work than women, and and I don't have any evidence, but it seems like more women leave after 1-2 years and men stay/find more permanent work than ESL jobs.
 

Miletius

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I am White, and am currently dating an Asian woman in Taiwan. We have been dating for about 2 1/2 years now. She has told me that she has only dated white guys in the past. I think she does it because of her very conservative upbringing with very, very traditional parents. Her parents basically refused to acknowledge my existence until a couple months ago.

And well...I've only been in relationships with asian girls as well. It wasn't like I wasn't interested in other people, but that is how it shook out. When I was in college I had asian roommates most of the time, and I hung out with them alot, and they were hanging out with mostly asians, and so I was kind of a token white jewish friend for them. And when I moved to Taiwan for work, well...that's the pool.

At my job, most of the relationships are White Male/Asian Female as well, but most of my co-workers are white male (teaching at an international school.) There is one Indian male/Asian female and one Asian Male/White Female marriage as well. Having lived in Taiwan for 4 years now, it seems like a bit of a pattern: more men come here for work than women, and and I don't have any evidence, but it seems like more women leave after 1-2 years and men stay/find more permanent work than ESL jobs.
I think being an expat affords you opportunities to date within a certain pool in your host country. Tons of servicemen get in relationships with Japanese, Korean, and Filipino women for example, around their military base, but they usually date within a pool of girls who are specifically interested in servicemen.

It's not entirely relevant to the discussion at hand since the topic focuses more on Asian Americans, not people who are still in their native country. But they may share some similar cultural rebellion dynamic or romantization of other races. It would probably be far less well formed than somebody who grows up in the US though.
 

Morrigan Stark

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He might have been using it sarcastically. I know I sometimes do.

I try not to around non Asians in case they think it gives them carte blanche to be racist. It's also why I joke so much about all white men looking the same to me.
In any case that guy you're referring to was probably just kidding. I know I like to mess with some people who thinks wielding a chopstick is magic.
Yeah, I don't know. I said "uh, haha? good one" and then he said "no, really!" like he meant it, so he might have been at least half-serious. But he does have a weird sense of humour. He routinely makes fun of white people, for example he'll comment on some Asian restaurants are "too white" (i.e. have too many white patrons to his liking and therefore are inauthentic and/or not good) and I thought he was joking but then he repeatedly said that in various conversations, even claiming some place or other was good until it started being patronized by whites and now it sucks, etc. I mean it's obviously tongue-in-cheek but he's repeated it so often now that I'm starting to think he might actually believe it somewhat. :p Or he just likes repeating the same lame jokes, I honestly don't know anymore.

... I just realized, as I typed this, that he's a lurker (not a member) on GAF. xD He probably won't see this post but if he does... well, that should make for funny conversations down the line. XD
 

Ratrat

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This is super interesting because recently a couple of my white friends that married asian women have gotten divorced. Where as those that married white women are doing ok.
4%...

Anyway, the black men/white women compared to white men/black women is what is interesting. What's up with that.
 

MrOogieBoogie

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I don't know about asians, but as an Indian eventually getting married is going to be a tough pill to swallow. Going to enjoy dating life with girls of all races because when the times comes, it's gonna have to be a Sikh girl that is also a particular caste whom I marry. I'm amazed how much the caste system matters to Indians, even those in my age bracket that are born and raised in England. Everyone I've spoken to know what caste they belong to and what that means.

But here in London, I don't see many interracial relationships at all, be that black/white/asian/indian/simpson etc. In all honesty I've hardly come across people being married that aren't the same religion leave alone another race, I just don't see that. It's obviously happening though, hence every advert these days seems to always have a couple that are different races, like erry time.
Never understood the point of dating people if you didn't think there'd be a meaningful relationship built from it.

If you know well in advance that you want to marry and it will be to a Sikh girl, why date other women? Doesn't it feel like a waste of time?
 

Morrigan Stark

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I actually agree with the general idea, but he went as far as to say that white patrons pretty much automatically ruin a place, lol. That said I think he was joking, but as I said, he has a weird sense of humour and I can't really figure out how serious/joking he is in those times.

Aaanyway I really didn't mean to derail this conversation to make this about my friend, so I'll just move on now. <_<
 

Cow Mengde

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Today, I can officially say there are Asian male Black female couples in New York! I sat next to one in the subway. Their adorable baby grabbed my arm. It was the funniest thing to me since we were just talking about that the other day here.
 

YesNOnoNOYes

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Today, I can officially say there are Asian male Black female couples in New York! I sat next to one in the subway. Their adorable baby grabbed my arm. It was the funniest thing to me since we were just talking about that the other day here.
That baby must have been super cute amg :O

You were touched by superior genes~
 

"D"

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Well dang, no love for us black guys and my sistas. Guess we'll take our ball and go home lol
 
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