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Splinter Cell Blacklist - Spies Vs. Mercs Previews

Seda

Member
Awesome to see they have the one director from pandora tomorrow back working on this. I will definitely be playing mostly classic mode. The new blacklist mode seems like it gives the spies too many offensive abilities.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Nice to see Ubisoft giving OPTIONS for their multiplayer.

Also all that freak out over offensive based Spies... for nothing. Told ya'll to settle down.
 

Sober

Member
Nice to see Ubisoft giving OPTIONS for their multiplayer.

Also all that freak out over offensive based Spies... for nothing. Told ya'll to settle down.
I guess they can play in BL SvM or graduate to classic SvM now, which is nice.

Thanks OP, I was about to make a thread too :p

edit: Also I'd like to point out the original director from PT's SvM is returning for this, probably good news to those who loved SvM to death.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
It's really going to be interesting to see how the community evolves in both lists. If Offensive Based Spies play decently, I can see myself playing that mode a lot more in regards to less "team chatter" needed to enjoy it.
 

Beardz

Member
Me playing as spy, grabbing a merc:

"If you call me daddy I'll let you live"

"...da...daddy?"

"I lied"

*cracks*
 

Demon Ice

Banned

Why the fuck is 2:09 possible in "Classic" SvM mode??

Spies aren't supposed to be that lethal! Come on Ubi!

How the hell are they going to balance spies having lethal weapons in Blacklist mode? They can literally hide in the shadows and headshot Mercs all day.

Edit: And the spies don't have to stay at the terminal to hack? I thought they got rid of that distance hacking nonsense from DA. Come on Ubi, give me a true CLASSIC mode!

At 1:00 in the Eurogamer video, a spy shocks a Merc and then runs up and knifes him while he's shocked..this is still in "Classic" mode. What the hell...

And another Spy head on melee kill at 1:20. Wow. So much for Classic mode, pandering to all the people that whined about the Spy's learning curve from PT/CT.
 
Why the fuck is 2:09 possible in "Classic" SvM mode??

Spies aren't supposed to be that lethal! Come on Ubi!

How the hell are they going to balance spies having lethal weapons in Blacklist mode? They can literally hide in the shadows and headshot Mercs all day.

Edit: And the spies don't have to stay at the terminal to hack? I thought they got rid of that distance hacking nonsense from DA. Come on Ubi, give me a true CLASSIC mode!

At 1:00 in the Eurogamer video, a spy shocks a Merc and then runs up and knifes him while he's shocked..this is still in "Classic" mode. What the hell...

And another Spy head on melee kill at 1:20. Wow. So much for Classic mode, pandering to all the people that whined about the Spy's learning curve from PT/CT.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt 2:09 NOT classic mode. (and he just said he wanted to give the new people something new.)
 

Demon Ice

Banned
Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt 2:09 NOT classic mode. (and he just said he wanted to give the new people something new.)

In which video? The part at 2:09 I'm referring to is from the first video in the OP, not the Eurogamer one, it says Classic SvM on the screen while that scene is happening. The spy jumps on one Merc (which is apparently now an insta kill instead of just a KO) and then immediately knifes the other one.
 

Kinyou

Member
Wow, spies are deadlier than ever. Not sure if I like it

The rest also seems to be more faster paced, maybe classic mode will be a bit slower.

Edit: wait, Spies have guns in Blacklist mode?! ugh........
 

legacyzero

Banned
Finally got to watch these.

Black list mode is certainly something I'm probably not going to play much. Too much Deathmatch going on. But I'm not sure how much I like 2v2 either. 3v3 felt just right. I hope they have a 3v3 mode with no lethal spies.

Giving Spies a lethal means is just wrong IMO. Takes away from the idea of the mode. I can understand having a deathmatch type mode, but keep that shit out of objectives.

EDIT: I'm so glad they kept the hacking that makes sense. You have to get close to the terminal, START the hack, and then you can hide while it downloads. At least that's how I'm reading it.
 

Demon Ice

Banned
EDIT: I'm so glad they kept the hacking that makes sense. You have to get close to the terminal, START the hack, and then you can hide while it downloads. At least that's how I'm reading it.

I guess they were going for a middleground between DA and PT/CT. I'm not a huge fan of it though, the way it was in PT/CT actually required strategy and teamwork because the hacking spy was completely vulnerable for the duration of the hack.

And I seriously hope server controls will let the host disable the spy's lethal knife melee, that's garbage to put that in a mode and still call it Classic SvM.
 

legacyzero

Banned
I guess they were going for a middleground between DA and PT/CT. I'm not a huge fan of it though, the way it was in PT/CT actually required strategy and teamwork because the hacking spy was completely vulnerable for the duration of the hack.

And I seriously hope server controls will let the host disable the spy's lethal knife melee, that's garbage to put that in a mode and still call it Classic SvM.

I'm really hoping PC gets a server list for this exact reason. I want to join custom games only. Mainly the ones that have the standard vulnerable spies that dont have weapons.
 

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
The new mode actually looks kind of fun, I hope this turns out alright. Balance is a big deal in this kind of multiplayer. One overpowered weapon/gadget or glitch can harm this kind of multiplayer far more than it would for your average multiplayer shooter.
 
Some hands-on from a guy who played it in Toronto:

I was lucky enough to visit the Ubisoft Toronto studio yesterday and get a hands-on with the game. Apart from every mode (SP, COOP, SVM) being fantastic, the new Spy Versus Merc is just a level above everything I've experienced in recent years.

They have delivered on the true SvM experience. BIG TIME. The game is a work of genius. They have taken all of the major problems faced in the old SvM and designed them out of the game.

Hands down, this game is amazing and will keep any SvM fan occupied for years to come.

Yes, it is much easier to kill a merc in close combat. It's possible to kill a merc with a melee attack from any angle in both modes, but spies are not overpowered. The game is already pretty well balanced from what I experienced and the team are still working hard to tweak it.

Spies are extremely fragile and very easy to kill. As a merc, you will be very rarely killed from the front if you know the spy is there. Of course, if you are ambushed from the front you will die, which is fair enough IMO.

I am all about the classic mode. The tension, the fear, the strategy, the rush....it's all there.

Blacklist mode is far more frantic and I will say that it is a worthy experience which I will play a lot, but classic mode is SvM 2.0

One of the most exciting parts of my play-day was catching a group of 3 mercs unaware in the Blacklist mode, as they were searching for my team-mate, and chain killing the three of them with my knife. The animations are so fluid & fantastic that I felt like a stealthy whirlwind of fury running through them and just slicing them up. It was an amazing moment. You may think that it's overpowering, but the risk involved in approaching a merc is so high, that you would be foolish to try and take them out.

The pay off for killing the merc is also reduced gameplay wise, because both teams have infinite lives.

We had some discussion on here about lives for each team already, where I said infinite lives for mercs was a problem, but the way that infinite respawns for BOTH teams affects the game balance is tremendous.

Specifically, it means the increased lethality of spies in CQC is not such a big deal, and the problem with "aggro spies" & spawn killing simply disappear. I'll tell you why in a minute...but first you need to understand the way the game is designed before I can tell you why the problems disappear.

Each level has 3 objectives (A,B & C) that must ALL be hacked to win the round. There is a running score kept of the number of objectives that are hacked. They also score you for % of an objective that is hacked - meaning you can score 2 objectives 100% (full hack) and another objective 56% before the round switches. The opposing team must now score 2x100% objectives and the last one must be hacked past 57% to win.

Once a spy hacks an objective he becomes "the hacker". The area is immediately cordoned off with lasers to define the boundaries of the objective area. No other objectives can now be hacked. This objective becomes "the hot zone" and the hacker must now stay within the confines of this area for 90 seconds while the objective counts up to 100%. Distance from the objective does NOT affect the rate of progression. Essentially the spy must stay hidden in this area while the mercs hunt him down. If he is spotted, the chances of dying are extremely high.

To stop the hack, the mercs must track down the hacker and kill him. Once he has been killed, the progression % freezes as a counter of 20 seconds starts. If the spy's teammate can re-initiate the hack within those 20 seconds, he becomes the hacker and the objective continues from that progression %. If he doesn't, the counter is reset to 0%.

Since spies have to hold the area for 90 seconds, you might think that killing the merc is a good way to achieve this. This is not the case because the merc's respawn counter is only 10 seconds and he generally spawns right outside the objective area. Constantly being able to respawn over and over means the mercs have to be killed 3-4 times before the objective reaches 100%. Spies are not going to be able to survive 3-4 engagements with the merc.

The only way to win is to hack the objective. The best strategy is hack, hide & evade. Kills can certainly help, but engage the mercs is so dangerous that it's best to just stay out of sight. If done effectively, it's very hard to counter.
 
In which video? The part at 2:09 I'm referring to is from the first video in the OP, not the Eurogamer one, it says Classic SvM on the screen while that scene is happening. The spy jumps on one Merc (which is apparently now an insta kill instead of just a KO) and then immediately knifes the other one.

From the video you quoted. Right before the spy does that, the developer is saying he wants a new experience for new people. I assumed that meant the accompanying footage was new mode, but it looks like it says 'classic svm' at the top so that is kind of worrying.
 

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
Some hands-on from a guy who played it in Toronto:

The area lockdown while hacking sounds interesting. Curious to see how much better hiding/evasion works in place of killing while hacking for 90 seconds.
 

demolitio

Member
Looks decent but not as asymmetrical as previous games. Classic mode hopefully truly is like the old games since it had some of the best multiplayer asymmetry I've ever played. You had no chance to win as spies unless you worked together and there was no rushing a merc for a 1v1 fight. Playing decoy as a spy was the most fun I've had in MP since you can run out there and let the merc see you so he bites the bait and chases after you only to realize your partner was waiting for him in the shadows as he ran by to get me.

A game where true skill determined who was considered a good player instead of rank, KDR (which is highly skewed since people rather camp than win), or some other bullshit.
 

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
Looks decent but not as asymmetrical as previous games. Classic mode hopefully truly is like the old games since it had some of the best multiplayer asymmetry I've ever played. You had no chance to win as spies unless you worked together and there was no rushing a merc for a 1v1 fight. Playing decoy as a spy was the most fun I've had in MP since you can run out there and let the merc see you so he bites the bait and chases after you only to realize your partner was waiting for him in the shadows as he ran by to get me.

A game where true skill determined who was considered a good player instead of rank, KDR (which is highly skewed since people rather camp than win), or some other bullshit.

Decoy bro. Did the same thing with my buddy. He was so much better at going for kills.
 

Tesseract

Banned
sounds good. svm pt and ct at high levels was some of the raddest shit ever. ct especially had no real ceiling, the metas were out of control.

this assuming you played v. people who didn't exploit egregiously.
 

Demon Ice

Banned
I hope the infinite respawn / only one objective hack at a time thing is only for the Blacklist mode.

But I doubt it, at least the one objective at a time thing, will probably be in both modes just because it would be ridiculous to have two spies able to simply initiate two separate hacks and then hide in an area.

*sigh*

Ubi were awfully misleading when they said they were doing a "Classic" mode. the only thing classic about it is the 2v2.

I wonder if the mercs will have their 360 spin attack and melee charge.
 

Rebel Leader

THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
I hope this will work out with SvM.... I want to believe but



if it doesn't work out

ubisoft
jiNl9n5.gif
 

MVP

Banned
Bought my original Xbox and subscribed to Xbox Live Gold solely for Pandora Tomorrow multiplayer, looking forward to this. Even if it doesn't live up to the original, anything even close would still be excellent.
 

haikira

Member
Glad to see the Eurogamer preview. They normally call it, like they see it. Unlike most other previews, which will just praise a game. Which can make for quite the contrast, when the following reviews tank a game. Just my experience anyway.

Video preview was good. Definitely happy about the classic mode.
 

SnakeXs

about the same metal capacity as a cucumber
Nice to see Ubisoft giving OPTIONS for their multiplayer.

Also all that freak out over offensive based Spies... for nothing. Told ya'll to settle down.

Funny thing is uber-offensive spies is kinda what broke/ruined Pandora Tomorrow's MP. Still, checking this out. As a crazy obsessive PT player spies vs mercs gives a special part of me gamer glee.
 

Sojiro

Member
I haven't played a Splinter Cell game for a loooong time (talking PS2 days here), and this mode looks amazing. I was already sold on the game, but this easily solidifies that.
 

Sober

Member
Nice to know the co-op missions are a mix of some blend of playstyles while some are just dead-on, full-stop insta-fail stealth. Which will make for hilarious co-op moments (or frustrating ones anyway)
 

Hulud

Member
Hate to say it but I think this youtube comment is prescient:

Looks good, but here is how it will play out:

Classic SvM: The skilled gametype that actually forces players to try, and relies mostly on skill instead of gadgets and gimmicks. Not very forgiving.

Blacklist SvM: Will be easier, rely a lot on gimmicks and not skill. Will be very forgiving.

The Classic playlist will be nearly empty because "Its too hard" and "Too old school" and the Blacklist playlist will be nearly fully because "Oh, shiny gadgets and toys".

It happened to Halo.

Also have to call bullshit on the dev who said something like "The MP is something new." SvM was in Pandora Tomorrow.
 

Sober

Member
Hate to say it but I think this youtube comment is prescient:



It happened to Halo.
No, Classic will be the hardcore people who have played SvM since PT and will learn the metagame in under 2 weeks then post threads on the official forums to help the devs with suggestions on 'how to balance classic' which is a thinly veiled attempt to have them rewrite it to be exactly like PT's metagame while simultaneously insulting the 4v4 Blacklist mode every chance they get.

Don't forget they will probably do their best to keep people who want to graduate to harder, classic SvM out of it in the most offensive ways possible.

Oh and the above, I guess.
 
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