[Square Enix after FFXV] The elephant in the room must be addressed.

#1
So we know that FFXV support has been cancelled, besides Episode Ardyn and a prequel anime to it launching this Winter.

To recapitulate:


-Tabata is leaving/has left SE.

-Episode Luna is cancelled.

-Episode Aranea is cancelled.

-Episode Noctis is cancelled.

-FFXV PC Mod Tools have been cancelled. [This is the worst thing, for me.]

-Current patches and updates to FFXV have been cancelled.

-FFXV: Comrades will release as a standalone edition for free for those who have the season pass.

-Luminous Engine Pro, now called Luminous Productions is going to be relegated to the next-gen game Tabata and his Business Division was making.

So, with that out of the way, we need to adress the elephant in the room, or rather the elephants, which are the following:


1.What will happen to Kingdom Hearts 3?

2.What will happen to Nomura after he finishes Kingdom Hearts 3?

3.What will happen to Final Fantasy XVI?

4.Does SE have any talent left that is not busy or pre-occupied to make such a game?

And imho, the most important question of all.

5.What will happen to FFVII:R?
 
#3
Nomura already said he'll move to VII:R, didn't he?

Personally, I think Nomura's a decent character designer, at least when he isn't putting belts everywhere (still love FFX Rikku), and he can come up with some decent game ideas (Final Fantasy + Disney) but I feel over the last 10 years he's shown he has little to no talent for actually writing or managing a team.

Kindom Hearts is a mass of plot holes covered up with more plot holes and his mismanagement of FFXV and its story required someone else to come in and gut it to make something half decent, and even that required changing things after release. Nomura needs to go back to basic character design, and leave directing and scenario writing to people with more talent.
 
#5
There's no point on investing on DLC's for a game everybody lost its interest after the release.

Next time release a complete history not a cheddar cheese and then solve all the holes with cutscenes added in post-launch patches and dlc's.
1. The second best sold FF of all time, let that sink in for a minute.

2.The game was finished from day 1, at least the story Tabata wanted to do from Noctis' prespective, now, the 3 extra scenes we got and the DLC are the enhancement of the experience.
 
#6
1. The second best sold FF of all time, let that sink in for a minute.
Yeah. I bought it at release too, we didn't know it was such a mess of a game. What people is not getting/buying/paying are the DLC's because people lost the interest in this mess.

2.The game was finished from day 1, at least the story Tabata wanted to do from Noctis' prespective, now, the 3 extra scenes we got and the DLC are the enhancement of the experience.
Yeah the "Noctis Perspective" stuff dies when the game has cutscenes with Noctis not being involved in them.

The game is a mess, a bunch of plotholes and senseless decisions all mixed together. Stuff happens with no explanation, suddently Starscourge, empire goes "bye!" in 5 minutes, the lore? Gotta buy the official guide and watch 1 movie, 3 animes, a comic and STILL it's incompleted. They even had to add Aranea's cutscene explaining the whole God stuff and changing Ifrit's skin so the story made any freaking sense.

No, i don't share the "It's expanding the experience" stuff, I and A LOT of players felt the game was lacking stuff, lacking explanations. If your standards for a "complete story" are lower it's not our problem.

Tabata even apologiced about the mess of story they released. Firs he said the "but muh noctis pvo", then he said the "We never wanted to tell a understandable story" but he ended up saying "you know what, you are allright, we didn't have time, we had to release it and we did what we could with the mess we had".
 
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#8
Yeah. I bought it at release too, we didn't know it was such a mess of a game. What people is not getting/buying/paying are the DLC's because people lost the interest in this mess.
Source of this claim? A quick google search turned out barren.


Yeah the "Noctis Perspective" stuff dies when the game has cutscenes with Noctis not being involved in them.

The game is a mess, a bunch of plotholes and senseless decisions all mixed together. Stuff happens with no explanation, suddently Starscourge, empire goes "bye!" in 5 minutes, the lore? Gotta buy the official guide and watch 1 movie, 3 animes, a comic and STILL it's incompleted. They even had to add Aranea's cutscene explaining the whole God stuff and changing Ifrit's skin so the story made any freaking sense.

No, i don't share the "It's expanding the experience" stuff, I and A LOT of players felt the game was lacking stuff, lacking explanations. If your standards for a "complete story" are lower it's not our problem.

Tabata even apologiced about the mess of story they released. Firs he said the "but muh noctis pvo", then he said the "We never wanted to tell a understandable story" but he ended up saying "you know what, you are allright, we didn't have time, we had to release it and we did what we could with the mess we had".

All three cutscenes that were in the game without Noctis, in a 50+ hour game, damn, you got him there...or was it two cutscenes?

Emperor on his throne. Luna confronting Leviathan, Ardyn and Luna, well three exactly.

All the stuff are explained in the game, besides the Empire going poof, but we knew what the Starscourge was from the cosmogony books, just because it is not spoonfed to you it does not making it a plothole.

I played the game from start to finish without even looking at the movie and watching the Brotherhood anime afterwards and got all the stuff on it.

Also the empire got *POOF* in 5' literally in FFVI as well, and from a bigger asspul that came out of nowhere.

And the way of apologizing was giving 2 more minutes of screen time to Ravus and another 2 more minutes to Luna. That is it, that is all.

After that he never bothered with the main story again, that is the only things some fans, most fans thought were missing.
 
#10
Lets be real here; noone expected a second season of DLC for FFXV, it was quite the surprise announcement coming after the "Royal Edition" offered what appeared to be a complete package (all DLC to date, plus extras).

Seems to me that SE may be consolidating its resources around fewer, bigger titles. Pulling FF7R back in-house isn't a small deal; its arguably their single biggest IP and they really need to get it right; I wouldn't be surprised to see the Luminous staff being drafted into supporting it.
 
#12
Pity the cancelled it. I love the gameplay despite way of summon. Wasnt the game sold well enough?
I think the game itself sold well, at least I remember tham saying it was fprotable from Day 1. It must have been the that the development of the DLC (including patches for the main game) ate away more money than they thought, while people were also less interested in those. It seems like Square tried to recoup development costs with DLC, but failed. Maybe they should try making more AA games, and see if those can make them more money than DLC. Octopath Traveler was a great start at least.
 
#16
I bought the game already but barely played it. Was waiting for all the content.

Are the episodes released so far interesting? Do they add a lot? Are they content cut from ff versus that they couldn't put in the story so they kind of put in with ducktape?

You said dlc tools are cut. I thought they released those already. What were they expanding it to?
 
#17
Emperor on his throne. Luna confronting Leviathan, Ardyn and Luna, well three exactly.
Exactly. If your game is "from character's X POV" you can't drop those cutscenes. If there are scenes not involving the character the whole game can't be from his POV as basic stuff is happening and he is not there to learn about those.

but we knew what the Starscourge was from the cosmogony books, just because it is not spoonfed to you it does not making it a plothole.
I thought I was playing a Final Fantasy game and not a Dark Souls.
For me that's one of the most important points of why I consider the game storytelling a mess. Lemme explain.

I played like hundreds of games where the lore is explained the "dark souls way" or never explained. The lore is "just there" and only has the purpose of setting a scenario (Like the Tales of games, there's always a Lore there but 99% of the times is not important for the main plot). The problem with FFXV is that the lore is EVERYTHING about the story. There was that war between gods, meteors falling, a disease that was supposedly from space that engulfed the world into darkness, Ifrit betraying everybody, an ifrit x shiva relationship, a big as fuck etc of important stuff that's mandatory to understand the story...and the game gives the player an absolute 0 of all that. All we got are scattered poems around the world that you don't know they are THE MAIN PLOT of the game till you ended it and searched on internet "I finished FFXV and what the f*ck is this story".

The Storytelling of FFXV was already a mess but man the Lore-Telling is even worse. Crucial pieces of information as "Ifrit got infected" or "Ifrit is an enemy of humankind" is never told ingame, you are going to the final boss and "Suddently ifrit lol".

Also the empire got *POOF* in 5' literally in FFVI as well, and from a bigger asspul that came out of nowhere.
FFVI: Everything was Kefka's plan from the beginning, he unleashes the espers (magic beings a.k.a summons) on the real world, absorbs the power of the 3 gods of the world, kills every esper, absorbs their powers and destroys the world. After that there's a TIMESKIP.

FFXV: We are being chased by the whole empire army that 2 days ago destroyed/conquered our homeland. When we decide to hit them back we jump in a train, fight a fleet of imperials chasing our train and when we arrive to the destination *POOF* empire is gone. The only details we have are scattered papers talking about an experiment that went wrong, experiments about a diseased that OH LOL ALMOST DESTROYED THE WHOLE WORLD CENTURIES AGO but NOBODY ever talks about that before.

What's the starscourge? Where does it come from? Who summoned that? Did it come in the meteors summoned by Ifrit? Why is ifrit infected? Why is Ifrit siding with Ardyn if he hates human? How can the starscourge make a whole country vanish in the time it took Noctis to reach Nifflheim ON A HIGH SPEED TRAIN?

Big etc. I have hopes the Ardyn DLC will explain everything I need about the starscourge, the Gods, the meteor and Ifrit. But my hopes about the empire were with Aranea and they all vanished. If i don't get an explanation about the empire going POOF in 5 minutes this game will still be incompleted in my head.

ps: Sorry for english mistakes, I'm at work but Games are life lol
 
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#20
Square Enix is a mess right now. FFXV was delayed for YEARS and still turned out to be a mediocre game. The same goes for FFVII Remake, what happened to that game? A company as big as SE can't even develop two games at the same time? KH3 was announced all the way back to 2013.
 
#23
I donno,I must be one of the rare people that loved FF15. As in, i couldn't wait every day to jump into its saturated beautiful world and that relaxing music. I think the story was OK. BUT if you havent watched the Kingsclave anime before the game, you absolutely had no clue what is happening. I think they should of emphasized better how important it is to watch it before you start your game.

I could totally imagine people starting the game and being confused, who is this king, from where are we running from etc.

The ending, last section was full on awesome and unexpected to say the least. Not going to spoil it for anyone but I was pumped playing through those last 2 hours.
 
#24
I donno,I must be one of the rare people that loved FF15. As in, i couldn't wait every day to jump into its saturated beautiful world and that relaxing music. I think the story was OK. BUT if you havent watched the Kingsclave anime before the game, you absolutely had no clue what is happening. I think they should of emphasized better how important it is to watch it before you start your game.

I could totally imagine people starting the game and being confused, who is this king, from where are we running from etc.

The ending, last section was full on awesome and unexpected to say the least. Not going to spoil it for anyone but I was pumped playing through those last 2 hours.
Still don't you want SE to move on to XVI?Even when i love a game i don't want the developer to continue making content for it for an eternity. I have barely played the game yet but from what i heard the complete edition feels well...complete.
 
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#25
People just bought xv, because they wanted sp experience and it was first(last) main game in this cycle of consoles. I loved graphic/gameplay but when you put more hours, I really hate this game engine+main story Is complicated, side quests meh, dlc meh. And these xv game add-ons like pocket game, anime movie, 2d game and etc was not good. I hope we get ffix/chrono trigger world settings in new main ff.
 
#27
FFXIV has been the most profitable game for them for some time. Slap some cut & paste enemies, often not even pallet swapped, in a new map using textures from other maps, call it Eureka, or Diadem, or WhackyTabbacy, and keep the subs coming in.

For all the FFXV promised, it was this gen's MGS4. Looked good in places, awful in others, terrible loading in places, and overall disjointed storytelling. You look at FFXV's open world, then look at the last few AC games, Horizon or RDR2 and the difference is night & day. I don't think we're going to see a game world from SE that gets the details right at this level any time soon. Might see a teaser demo for something claiming it, but nothing you can hold in your hand for the next 6+ years.
 
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#28
1. The second best sold FF of all time, let that sink in for a minute.

2.The game was finished from day 1, at least the story Tabata wanted to do from Noctis' prespective, now, the 3 extra scenes we got and the DLC are the enhancement of the experience.
You're confusing XV for XIV there buddy.
https://gearnuke.com/final-fantasy-...antasy-xiii-6th-best-selling-title-in-series/

Source of this claim? A quick google search turned out barren.
I think them canceling the DLC is a good enough source for his claim, announced DLC is rarely canceled, Royale Edition seeminly failing to boost sales probably didn't help either (I never saw it on sales charts after release) and the PC version didn't seem to be a big hit either. FF fans that are wanting a long term experience are more likely to still be playing the far more successful XIV than XV, XV's DLC plan since the beginning was kind of silly to be honest with XIV existing.
 
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#30
Still don't you want SE to move on to XVI?Even when i love a game i don't want the developer to continue making content for it for an eternity. I have barely played the game yet but from what i heard the complete edition feels well...complete.
Oh absolutely. I platinumed the game in the first two months. Im eagerly waiting for FF16. Not sure what this online announcement is all about, i dont get it at all honestly.
 
#31
Exactly. If your game is "from character's X POV" you can't drop those cutscenes. If there are scenes not involving the character the whole game can't be from his POV as basic stuff is happening and he is not there to learn about those.



I thought I was playing a Final Fantasy game and not a Dark Souls.
For me that's one of the most important points of why I consider the game storytelling a mess. Lemme explain.

I played like hundreds of games where the lore is explained the "dark souls way" or never explained. The lore is "just there" and only has the purpose of setting a scenario (Like the Tales of games, there's always a Lore there but 99% of the times is not important for the main plot). The problem with FFXV is that the lore is EVERYTHING about the story. There was that war between gods, meteors falling, a disease that was supposedly from space that engulfed the world into darkness, Ifrit betraying everybody, an ifrit x shiva relationship, a big as fuck etc of important stuff that's mandatory to understand the story...and the game gives the player an absolute 0 of all that. All we got are scattered poems around the world that you don't know they are THE MAIN PLOT of the game till you ended it and searched on internet "I finished FFXV and what the f*ck is this story".

The Storytelling of FFXV was already a mess but man the Lore-Telling is even worse. Crucial pieces of information as "Ifrit got infected" or "Ifrit is an enemy of humankind" is never told ingame, you are going to the final boss and "Suddently ifrit lol".



FFVI: Everything was Kefka's plan from the beginning, he unleashes the espers (magic beings a.k.a summons) on the real world, absorbs the power of the 3 gods of the world, kills every esper, absorbs their powers and destroys the world. After that there's a TIMESKIP.

FFXV: We are being chased by the whole empire army that 2 days ago destroyed/conquered our homeland. When we decide to hit them back we jump in a train, fight a fleet of imperials chasing our train and when we arrive to the destination *POOF* empire is gone. The only details we have are scattered papers talking about an experiment that went wrong, experiments about a diseased that OH LOL ALMOST DESTROYED THE WHOLE WORLD CENTURIES AGO but NOBODY ever talks about that before.

What's the starscourge? Where does it come from? Who summoned that? Did it come in the meteors summoned by Ifrit? Why is ifrit infected? Why is Ifrit siding with Ardyn if he hates human? How can the starscourge make a whole country vanish in the time it took Noctis to reach Nifflheim ON A HIGH SPEED TRAIN?

Big etc. I have hopes the Ardyn DLC will explain everything I need about the starscourge, the Gods, the meteor and Ifrit. But my hopes about the empire were with Aranea and they all vanished. If i don't get an explanation about the empire going POOF in 5 minutes this game will still be incompleted in my head.

ps: Sorry for english mistakes, I'm at work but Games are life lol
Wait ifrit was the enemy and had a thing with Shiva o.o! I was wondering why I had to fight him lol. I finished the game within a week so didnt bother doing extensive research only watched brotherhood and the anime. Wth did I play lol
 
#32
I think them canceling the DLC is a good enough source for his claim, announced DLC is rarely canceled, Royale Edition seeminly failing to boost sales probably didn't help either (I never saw it on sales charts after release) and the PC version didn't seem to be a big hit either. FF fans that are wanting a long term experience are more likely to still be playing the far more successful XIV than XV, XV's DLC plan since the beginning was kind of silly to be honest with XIV existing.
I want source on those numbers. Especially after FFXV has sold 8.1 million units as of last month with 400k of them being on Steam back on August.

Those are the numbers for numbered FF games.



Everything that comes without source is speculation.
 
#34
Well with a 30 million dollar loss the first thing a company does to bring back faith in thier stock is they usually either fire someone big or just make a bunch infrastructure changes. It’s really just all to say “ see we aren’t sitting around doing nothing “ to the stock holders.

So my guess is they will go on as usual maybe put more into mobile as that’s a hot selling point.
 
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#36
5.What will happen to FFVII:R?
I can't care less about FF VII. It is going to be a UE4 corridor game anyway.

The fact that the ressources are put on the next Luminous Engine game is what should have been done from the start. Great decision. Focusing on your in-house engine, an engine that differentiates you from what other companies do, is a smart thing to do.
 

Whataburger

Milk Connoisseur
#37
I guess every FF besides FVII and FVIII is a failure then.

Also guys, Tabata was not fired, he resigned, big difference.
Different times we live in. Back then selling that much meant much more than today when that is considered a failure by Squeenix. Remember how TR sold good and they said it wouldn't do? They house way more employees now and are a bigger company with more at stake than before.
 
#38
1. Nothing will happen to Kingdom Hearts 3. The game comes out in a couple of months and is probably nearing completion. Also I don't like KH or Nomura but at least they have a history of releasing complete games instead of some crap that needs a 2 hours movie and half a dozen DLC's to feel complete.

2. Sadly, just 2 days ago Nomura said he would be fully focusing on VII Remake once work is done with KH3

3-4: It will probably take a backseat while VII Remake becomes the main FF Project. Square is still a big studio with plenty of people that could work on it, with Tabata gone and Nomura working on VII Remake maybe it's about time they start to look for new talent and a newer generation to work on it?.... Or just put the Dragon Quest XI or FFXIV Team on it, they seem to be the most competent people working at Square right now
Either way we can only hope that when it comes out it's both good and complete

5. Advent Children: The Prequel will be your usual Nomura project: It will take forever to release, will have solid gameplay with fun combat, the story is going to be a lot worse, everyone is going to get a +10 in their "sad and edgy" stat and it will have some of the most cringe worthy dialog in AAA gaming.
 
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Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
#39
FFXV was probably my biggest disappointment ever in gaming. I bought the CE *and* the steelbook. I tried my best to like it up to the Titan fight, then I just dropped it. Sold my CE and walked away. Square needs to drop Nomura like the stone that he is and find some new talent. Contract him for character designs, if you really want him involved somehow, but they need to stop doubling down on the guy.
 
#40
I want source on those numbers. Especially after FFXV has sold 8.1 million units as of last month with 400k of them being on Steam back on August.

Those are the numbers for numbered FF games.



Everything that comes without source is speculation.
Did you honestly just ask for the source of the source that I posted, while just posting a image with no source at all yet saying everything but yours is just speculation?
Not sure where there info is from, but the fact your list has VII below 10 million shows it's wrong as I do have a source, that lists the source of there source, that it was at 11 million in 2015.
http://www.siliconera.com/2015/08/19/final-fantasy-vii-has-sold-over-11-million-units-worldwide/

Also Square wanted 10 million for XV if you forgot.
https://www.geek.com/news/square-en...l-10-million-copies-to-be-successful-1651264/

Edit: I did find this.
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Best_selling_Square-Enix_games
Seems to match other I posted, so there must be a source of these sources but I can't find them from googling.
 
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#41
Did you honestly just ask for the source of the source that I posted, while just posting a image with no source at all yet saying everything but yours is just speculation?
Not sure where there info is from, but the fact your list has VII below 10 million shows it's wrong as I do have a source, that lists the source of there source, that it was at 11 million in 2015.
http://www.siliconera.com/2015/08/19/final-fantasy-vii-has-sold-over-11-million-units-worldwide/

Also Square wanted 10 million for XV if you forgot.
https://www.geek.com/news/square-en...l-10-million-copies-to-be-successful-1651264/

Edit: I did find this.
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Best_selling_Square-Enix_games
Seems to match other I posted, so there must be a source of these sources but I can't find them from googling.
You post a VG sales article as argument? Boy, it was not a full year ago that this site was considered bogus and with made up facts, just ask any sales-age person here. I think @Aquamarine is still around.

And no, SE did not wanted this game to sell 10 million, that was Tabata and teams personal goal.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/final-fantasy-15-director-clarifies-10-million-sal/1100-6436227/

We know that the game sold 5 million copies day 1 and broke even at that day and then went to sell another 3,1 million.
 
#42
You post a VG sales article as argument? Boy, it was not a full year ago that this site was considered bogus and with made up facts, just ask any sales-age person here. I think @Aquamarine is still around.

And no, SE did not wanted this game to sell 10 million, that was Tabata and teams personal goal.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/final-fantasy-15-director-clarifies-10-million-sal/1100-6436227/

We know that the game sold 5 million copies day 1 and broke even at that day and then went to sell another 3,1 million.
Probably is, as I said I just found it while searching for individual sales of each FF game which was same as article I posted, still doesn't change the fact the image you posted is strait up wrong as well as the FFVII numbers are wrong. Well not wrong, just out of date as some of the numbers on your list is from 2006.

Also I just noticed that the one you posted still had X at 8.6 million and VIII at 8.5 million, and that was for the PS2 and PS1 versions alone, which are higher numbers than XV. So why did you tell other guy XV was second best selling knowing that wasn't true regardless of any of my posts?
 
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#43
I almost got the game with the Royal Edition, then the roadmap was announced so I decided to wait for the Complete Royal Edition... I guess my wait is close to over.
 
#44
Hm, Eurogamer has an article regarding Tabata's resignation from SE.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...ts-square-enix-final-fantasy-15-dlc-cancelled


"Hajime Tabata resigned from his role as the director of Final Fantasy 15, at the same time he left Luminous Productions and has no further relations with Square Enix or Luminous Productions," it reads. "We are told that he left for personal reasons. It is with regret to see the departure of such a talented member of staff who applied themselves on Final Fantasy 15 and many other memorable titles. We wish him every success for the future and will continue to cheer him on."

"As to the future of Luminous Productions, the studio was established with the goal to create a new IP, so we are continuing to develop our new title."

Eurogamer understands that Tabata was presented with the option to have Luminous Productions turn into one of Square Enix's regular business divisions, a course it now seems set on, or spin it off as his own company with Square Enix investment, though he chose to leave altogether. The departure was confirmed internally towards the end of this summer.
 
#46
While it's a shame Hajime Tabata is going, outside FFXV and Crisis Core I don't see anything else notable to be too upset about his departure. Good luck to him.
Question is who's gonna step up, there are many developers at SE that worked on previous games when SE was good way before Hajime Tabata joined so is it like SE only has 2 directors
 
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#48
Wait ifrit was the enemy and had a thing with Shiva o.o! I was wondering why I had to fight him lol. I finished the game within a week so didnt bother doing extensive research only watched brotherhood and the anime. Wth did I play lol
And you played a more complete experience. When I played it at release some of the most important cutscenes of the game WEREN'T in the game. Shiva (Gentiana)'s cutscene added this year literally explains the plot of the game and some bits of what's happening.
 
#49
Kingdom Hearts 3 is done wouldn't you think? Comes out in 3 months. I'm sure its just final bug fixing and testing.

Plus they have their own team. Its not going to effect KH 3.
 
#50
I'm seeing a lot of people bitching about Hajime Tabata, like this was all his fault, and that's not true, he'sa decent creator (decent...not great), but he doesn't deserve all this backlash.

If there's someone that deserve big backlash, aside from SE leaders, is Tetsuya Nomura, teh Troy Horse of the company...

FACTS:

- They give him FFVsXIII project, which is nothing more than another Kingdom Hearts with FF skin, 8 years later the project is rejected.

- Then comes Tabata, who takes the project keeping only Noctis and the graphic engine, and creates from the scrap a completely new game in 3 years.

- Just when FFVsXIII got cancelled, SE sends Nomura to develop Kingdom Hearts 3, a game that still looks good, but it is a sequel that doesn't vary in any way from the previous ones, almost 6 FUCKING years later the game is finished (Bravo Square-Enix).

- 2 years later, in the middle of Kingdom Hearts 3 development, SE puts Nomura in charge of the remake of Final Fantasy VII, which AGAIN and like the canceled FFVsXIII, it's another skin of Kingdom Hearts...3 and a half years since its announcement, we don't know nothing.

In conclusion:

In a serious company, Nomura would have been fired 10 years ago, he wasted time, resources and a lot of money from a big company. And finally, Square-Enix is sucking this guy's cock for some reasons that I don't undertand...because Nomure is nothing more than a mediocre project manager who should have stayed as a simple character designer.