[Square Enix after FFXV] The elephant in the room must be addressed.

#51
Square Enix hinging upon a character designer for all creative direction is honestly kinda bad. KH3 will be done then they will move onto FF VII remake. Just keep Nomura on that, don't let him touch anything else.

Honestly for a new FF moving forward let some new faces take the mantle to the series or bring back Hiroyuki Itou. Failing that, let some Enix staff at Final Fantasy. It was someone from the Enix side who fixed XIV wasn't it?

Just move on from FF XV now, it's a waste of time and resources at this point.
 
#52
Square-Enix is an empty husk they should keep on developing mobile app and cheap port, there is nothing to expect from them anymore, Nier Automata was a miracle thanks to Platinum Games.
 
#54
Square-Enix is an empty husk they should keep on developing mobile app and cheap port, there is nothing to expect from them anymore, Nier Automata was a miracle thanks to Platinum Games.
FFXIV is still a great game with great storytelling (Since Heavensward...that was OMG), impressive OST, impressive bosses and keeps all the FF feeling despite being an MMO. Octopath traveler was great, Bravely Default and Second were great games and DQXI got some "best JRPG in generations" reviews.

It's just that S-E don't know what to make with main-line FF anymore while they nail it with almost any other RPG they release.
 
#55
- Just when FFVsXIII got cancelled, SE sends Nomura to develop Kingdom Hearts 3, a game that still looks good, but it is a sequel that doesn't vary in any way from the previous ones, almost 6 FUCKING years later the game is finished (Bravo Square-Enix).
Yeah, sure everyone knows that switching from an in-house engine to the unreal engine is a matter of few year... I can't take this seriously when 6 fucking years is nothing crazy for game development.

- 2 years later, in the middle of Kingdom Hearts 3 development, SE puts Nomura in charge of the remake of Final Fantasy VII, which AGAIN and like the canceled FFVsXIII, it's another skin of Kingdom Hearts...3 and a half years since its announcement, we don't know nothing.
We do know that the game should never have been announced because they were at the beginning of the development stage. We do know that they rebooted the project before Nomura was appointed because they outsourced the development of the game to a studio that could not meet SE's technical expectations with unreal engine.

But yeah, apart from this mess, Nomura's projects always takes time. Either it is from never achieve the perfection he's aiming for or because he just lost his touch.
 
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#57
Wow now you can't even resign from your fucking job without people criticizing you or blaming you like you owe them something.
 
#58
Whoever beat a single player Final Fantasy and thought “man, I hope they spend YEARS adding new features and content for this game!”

Really odd choice for a primarily single player game that has a decisive ending. Especially when there’s not much to do differently in a second playthrough in terms of story choices, character advancement, party composition, etc.

Glad they are ending the era of Final Fantasy XV and moving on to something else I might actually want to play.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
#59
Kindom Hearts is a mass of plot holes covered up with more plot holes
To me Kingdom Hearts story can be convoluted as fuck but I still find it very entertaining and I want to know what happens next. I personally have zero worry for KHIII, Nomura might have missmangment problem but he does damn good job with KH series.
 
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#60
The modding tools are cancelled, too?
You'd think they'd absolutely want to get those out at the very least so at least all these cancellations could be softened by the fact that the community culd produce some content.
Just absolute bullshit, all around.

I'll buy Kingdom Hearts III and then I'm done with SquareEnix until they prove they're worth the trouble.
 
#62
I agree, it's the people in charge of the Final Fantasy franchise that need to get their shit together.
Management, direction, production...they really need a clear vision for immediate future and where they want to take the (main) series in the long run because they've been fucking around since some genius came up with the dumbass idea of the Fabula Nova Crystallis sub-series.
 
#63
1.What will happen to Kingdom Hearts 3?
Nothing. It's basically done. It comes out in 2 months.

2.What will happen to Nomura after he finishes Kingdom Hearts 3?
Hard to say actually. He may start a new game, retire, or do piecemeal work on multiple games at the same time. I'm expecting the third option.

3.What will happen to Final Fantasy XVI?
It will definitely come out for next gen systems. The series is still healthy enough to make another one. As far as who the director is, it's up in the air really. Both Toriyama and Yoshi are qualified to make a big next entry. And they probably have at least a few directors we don't know by name that are promising.

4.Does SE have any talent left that is not busy or pre-occupied to make such a game?
Toriyama, Kitase, Itou, Yoshi, and more. Yes.

5.What will happen to FFVII:R?
I think it'll get re-announced at some point in the future with significant changes. It probably won't be episodic with multiple games, because it's simply taking too long. I really don't know.
 
#64
I don't care what anyone says, it's still my favorite game of this generation, even though I was disappointed when
Lunafreya gets killed by Ardyn
. Mainly because it outdid my expectations and has one of the best open worlds I've ever played period with some of the best graphics I've ever seen to boot. To each their own, I've seen far worse games with just as much hype and build-up and turned up genuinely bad, i.e. Duke Nukem Forever and Aliens: Colonial Marines, both of which could have been awesome. But FFXV is a genuinely great game, in my eyes.
 
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#65
I'm seeing a lot of people bitching about Hajime Tabata, like this was all his fault, and that's not true, he'sa decent creator (decent...not great), but he doesn't deserve all this backlash.

If there's someone that deserve big backlash, aside from SE leaders, is Tetsuya Nomura, teh Troy Horse of the company...

FACTS:

- They give him FFVsXIII project, which is nothing more than another Kingdom Hearts with FF skin, 8 years later the project is rejected.

- Then comes Tabata, who takes the project keeping only Noctis and the graphic engine, and creates from the scrap a completely new game in 3 years.

- Just when FFVsXIII got cancelled, SE sends Nomura to develop Kingdom Hearts 3, a game that still looks good, but it is a sequel that doesn't vary in any way from the previous ones, almost 6 FUCKING years later the game is finished (Bravo Square-Enix).

- 2 years later, in the middle of Kingdom Hearts 3 development, SE puts Nomura in charge of the remake of Final Fantasy VII, which AGAIN and like the canceled FFVsXIII, it's another skin of Kingdom Hearts...3 and a half years since its announcement, we don't know nothing.

In conclusion:

In a serious company, Nomura would have been fired 10 years ago, he wasted time, resources and a lot of money from a big company. And finally, Square-Enix is sucking this guy's cock for some reasons that I don't undertand...because Nomure is nothing more than a mediocre project manager who should have stayed as a simple character designer.
People give nomura crap, but look at the games he's been involved with versus tobata, and there's an obvious divide quality wise. At least the games nomura is involved with are top notch.
 
#66
And you played a more complete experience. When I played it at release some of the most important cutscenes of the game WEREN'T in the game. Shiva (Gentiana)'s cutscene added this year literally explains the plot of the game and some bits of what's happening.
Yeah I played it at release with non of the updates or dlc. Must of missed lot
 
#67
I already said it multiple times but I will say it again. Hire actual project managers. Nomura might be a good designer, but it's clear that the actual management section of SE is, where the real problems are.

Nomura probably has no idea about project management thus leading to these disasters over and over again. I guess FF7R is already trapped in development hell.
 
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#68
I'm seeing a lot of people bitching about Hajime Tabata, like this was all his fault, and that's not true, he'sa decent creator (decent...not great), but he doesn't deserve all this backlash.

If there's someone that deserve big backlash, aside from SE leaders, is Tetsuya Nomura, teh Troy Horse of the company...

FACTS:

- They give him FFVsXIII project, which is nothing more than another Kingdom Hearts with FF skin, 8 years later the project is rejected.

- Then comes Tabata, who takes the project keeping only Noctis and the graphic engine, and creates from the scrap a completely new game in 3 years.

- Just when FFVsXIII got cancelled, SE sends Nomura to develop Kingdom Hearts 3, a game that still looks good, but it is a sequel that doesn't vary in any way from the previous ones, almost 6 FUCKING years later the game is finished (Bravo Square-Enix).

- 2 years later, in the middle of Kingdom Hearts 3 development, SE puts Nomura in charge of the remake of Final Fantasy VII, which AGAIN and like the canceled FFVsXIII, it's another skin of Kingdom Hearts...3 and a half years since its announcement, we don't know nothing.

In conclusion:

In a serious company, Nomura would have been fired 10 years ago, he wasted time, resources and a lot of money from a big company. And finally, Square-Enix is sucking this guy's cock for some reasons that I don't undertand...because Nomure is nothing more than a mediocre project manager who should have stayed as a simple character designer.
Nomura definitely played a part in FF and SE's downfall, but Kitase is really the person who is most responsible. They should've fired him ages ago.
 
#74
1. Nothing will happen to Kingdom Hearts 3. The game comes out in a couple of months and is probably nearing completion. Also I don't like KH or Nomura but at least they have a history of releasing complete games instead of some crap that needs a 2 hours movie and half a dozen DLC's to feel complete.
A history of releasing complete games? Are you referring to story or what? Did you read Tabata’s impressions when he first arrived on the project to do work? According to him, when it was Versus XIII it seemed like this project wasn’t even cohesively grounded.

The team prior to his arrival were pretty much jaded and the entire project seemed like an abstract idea than anything concrete and set in stone. If anything, he set up a release window to get this project out than to idle ruminating over tech experiments. For better or worse...

I'm seeing a lot of people bitching about Hajime Tabata, like this was all his fault, and that's not true, he'sa decent creator (decent...not great), but he doesn't deserve all this backlash.

If there's someone that deserve big backlash, aside from SE leaders, is Tetsuya Nomura, teh Troy Horse of the company...

FACTS:

- They give him FFVsXIII project, which is nothing more than another Kingdom Hearts with FF skin, 8 years later the project is rejected.

- Then comes Tabata, who takes the project keeping only Noctis and the graphic engine, and creates from the scrap a completely new game in 3 years.

- Just when FFVsXIII got cancelled, SE sends Nomura to develop Kingdom Hearts 3, a game that still looks good, but it is a sequel that doesn't vary in any way from the previous ones, almost 6 FUCKING years later the game is finished (Bravo Square-Enix)..

In conclusion:

In a serious company, Nomura would have been fired 10 years ago, he wasted time, resources and a lot of money from a big company. And finally, Square-Enix is sucking this guy's cock for some reasons that I don't undertand...because Nomure is nothing more than a mediocre project manager who should have stayed as a simple character designer.
Pretty much what I was saying! He came in midway to something that seemed so hypothetical and off-track, outta whack. People should be glad Tabata came in despite all the barriers and still got it up and out that dev hell it was in for what amounted to nearly a decade (no matter how you slice it).
 
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#75
-Episode Luna is cancelled.

-Episode Aranea is cancelled.

-Episode Noctis is cancelled.

-FFXV PC Mod Tools have been cancelled. [This is the worst thing, for me.]

-Current patches and updates to FFXV have been cancelled.

-FFXV: Comrades will release as a standalone edition for free for those who have the season pass.

-Luminous Engine Pro, now called Luminous Productions is going to be relegated to the next-gen game Tabata and his Business Division was making.
What were the patches and updated that were cancelled?
 
#76
What were the patches and updated that were cancelled?
Stability fixes, PC Mod Tools, Trophy support for Comrades getting axxed, the stand-alone version of Comrades will release as a separate thing with new trophies, and I think some more QoL addittions here and there on the top of my head.

With mod tool ending being the biggest stab in the heart here.
 
#77
1. The second best sold FF of all time, let that sink in for a minute.

2.The game was finished from day 1, at least the story Tabata wanted to do from Noctis' prespective, now, the 3 extra scenes we got and the DLC are the enhancement of the experience.
It is unfair to compare today's video game market to what it was in the 80s, 90s, or even the '00s. There are millions more gamers today than there were back then. A game that sold millions today may have only sold hundreds of thousands back then.

The DLC that was announced was never actually planned originally and were added *after* the originally announced DLC was done. Not every game lasts forever and I am glad that FFXV is now considered "finished" so they can move elsewhere. All "stories" were announced to come out in different media in some fashion. Whether that be as animations, short stories, or other - we don't know yet.

Also, I am not a huge fan of Tabata and I feel like nothing of real value was lost when he moved elsewhere. I am interested to see what he comes up with next, but I won't really hold my breath. Luminous engine has been confirmed my many sources to be an absolute pain in the ass to work with. Why do you think KH3 development was scrapped and restarted after a year on Unreal Engine 4?

Now, as for your issue with Nomura: He has already confirmed to be moving on to FF7R once KH3 is finished (which it will be shortly). Last I remember, there is no announced DLC for the game so there shouldn't be much of an issue. KH is a highly lucrative game series for both Square and Disney, so I highly doubt we will see it go away any time soon. Plus this is the final game for the "xehanort saga". They can literally do whatever they like after this in terms of story.
 
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#80
Stability fixes, PC Mod Tools, Trophy support for Comrades getting axxed, the stand-alone version of Comrades will release as a separate thing with new trophies, and I think some more QoL addittions here and there on the top of my head.

With mod tool ending being the biggest stab in the heart here.
So it's that stable? It's a shame for the Mod Tool, and beyond fucking dumb that they fragment their best selling title for an online mod nobody'd gives a ish about if it wasn't for FFXV. But then...corporations, Square-Enix is one.
 
#81
To me Kingdom Hearts story can be convoluted as fuck but I still find it very entertaining and I want to know what happens next. I personally have zero worry for KHIII, Nomura might have missmangment problem but he does damn good job with KH series.
I love Kindom Hearts; played virtually all of them, understand almost everything that's happened, and I'm really looking forward to KHIII.

But Nomura is still terrible at storytelling, and I hope KHIII is the end of Sora, Xehanort and co, with any new games in 10 years time having a new writer.
 
#82
I actually really enjoyed FFXV, I think what made a huge difference for me was playing a demo a way back when Final Fantasy Type 0 was released. From that demo I personally enjoyed the gameplay, the controls were the most comfortable since FFXII and the summons (Ramah) when I played the demo were epic in style and scale, to me it felt like Final Fantasy finally got the modernized update I had been waiting for. Everything attached to FFXIII during the PS3/ Xbox 360 era I thought was overly complicated as far as the battle system went and turned me off from it completely.

I pre-ordered the Ultimate Collectors Edition from the Square Enix website, despite all the negativity, I actually enjoyed it more than any Final Fantasy game I've played in recent years, so for me it was worth it. It took me 113hrs to bring in the platinum trophy for the main story. I thought the dlc and random festivals were generous, initially I really enjoyed the games timed hunts, until it was more geared towards the in-game currency and then I lost interest.

Either way it was time to wrap it all up and focus their resources into FFVII:R that kind of commitment has paid off for Rockstar after numerous delays, years of development and combining the resources of all of their studios to work on Red Dead 2. I love Square-Enix but I am concerned and they are arguably working on the biggest remake any company has ever put together. I don't care if we have to wait another 3-4 years and it all comes out as one massive game on PS5, just do it right, please dont fuck this up, take your time and harness your resources cause this could make or break things even with core fans like myself.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
#84
Shame Tabata left, my favorite title out of him that I’ve played was actually The 3rd Birthday which seems to be forgotten. Put that in his portfolio too when mentioning PSP titles.
Gameplay yes. Cutscene direction also yes. Story though and the general characterization and execution of it. Definitely not.

It's a a real shame since Parasite Eve was a good RPG in my book back in the day.

------------

Square Enix used to have talented staff working there. But as of now they have all moved on to working for other groups such as Alphadream, MonolithSoft, gone freelance and what have you. Square has been stagnating for a long time, to the point they will eventually fade into obscurity. Really sad to see considering you always were assured when a new RPG worth playing came out it was from them.

Only game I've liked from them this year was Octopath. More of that please.
 
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#85
I would love square to release FF without all this DLC and Add on shit. Just like in the old days put a complete experience out and thats it. Tell a story and thats it. I dont need no X-2, XV DLC 24. Imho it doesnt belong to FF. Just release a good and complete game (haven't played FFXV) like back in the days.
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
#86
I would love square to release FF without all this DLC and Add on shit. Just like in the old days put a complete experience out and thats it. Tell a story and thats it. I dont need no X-2, XV DLC 24. Imho it doesnt belong to FF. Just release a good and complete game (haven't played FFXV) like back in the days.
Seems to be a sign of the times.

But if you haven't already, check out Octopath Traveler. Exactly what you're describing, no DLC or extra shit, just a game with a complete experience that has a few stories to tell.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
#88
I love Kindom Hearts; played virtually all of them, understand almost everything that's happened, and I'm really looking forward to KHIII.

But Nomura is still terrible at storytelling, and I hope KHIII is the end of Sora, Xehanort and co, with any new games in 10 years time having a new writer.
I don't know, I might be talking crazy but the very convoluted story has honestly become part of the charm in KH series.:messenger_beaming:
 
#90
I just don't buy into the Nomura hate, sorry.

Objectively looking back the root of all SE's internal issues seems centered around the ill-fated Crystal Tools tech, and general difficulties stemming from the transition to PS3/360.

FFXIII started in 2004 as a PS2 game, but got shifted onto the then next gen platforms and Crystal Tools, resulting in a troubled development cycle and a final release in late 2009.

Happening concurrently with this was the original version of FFXIV, which lest we forget was originally released in 2010, less than a year after XIII. This was another Crystal Tools project, and had been in development since 2005. Pretty much making it an exact contemporary of Versus XIII.

XIV comes out disastrously, thin on content and generally a mess. They struggle with this version for 2 full years, before mercifully pulling the plug in 2012. Most importantly the development of its replacement, FFXIV: A Realm Reborn, also happens concurrently to the salvage/maintainance efforts, effectively stalling every other internal project between 2011 and 2014 in an attempt to salvage the FF brand in some sort of a timely fashion!

Just looking at the mess surrounding Versus XIII's development, is it really any wonder that nothing really got done? Bear in mind that Nomura's last major project, KH2 only got released in December 2005, and over the same time-period discussed above he was further credited on a frankly stupid number of other released projects. While Nomura was "failing" on Versus XIII he oddly managed to produce (amongst others) The World Ends With You, Crisis Core, and Dissidia, to be credited as director on 6(!) further Kindom Hearts projects!
Check out the "works" section on his wikipedia page for a frankly mind-boggling list of credits.
 
#91
I’m always hearing great things about octopath traveler. I should give it a shot.
Ehhh. One of the most overrated games of this gen IMO. It’s nowhere near as good as the classic games it’s trying to invoke.

Imagine 8 mediocre-to-bad JRPG stories that are 4 chapters each. You can progress them in any order. Very little connection between the stories and ZERO interaction between party members except for little “private action” dialog scenes.

Battle system is pretty cool but gets stale long before the end.

I actually fell in love with the demo but it lost its appeal for me around the 10 hour mark.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
#92
Ehhh. One of the most overrated games of this gen IMO. It’s nowhere near as good as the classic games it’s trying to invoke.

Imagine 8 mediocre-to-bad JRPG stories that are 4 chapters each. You can progress them in any order. Very little connection between the stories and ZERO interaction between party members except for little “private action” dialog scenes.

Battle system is pretty cool but gets stale long before the end.

I actually fell in love with the demo but it lost its appeal for me around the 10 hour mark.
Thats absolute lie. I put over 100 hours in to this game there is definitely interaction between party members, sure its not in traditional way like most games but it has them. As much as I liked Ni no Kuni 2, Octopath has waaaay more character development party interaction than Ni no Kuni 2 did honestly.
 
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#93
Thats absolute lie. I put over 100 hours in to this game there is definitely interaction between party members, sure its not in traditional way like most games but it has them. As much as I liked Ni no Kuni 2, Octopath has waaaay more character development party interaction than Ni no Kuni 2 did honestly.
Like I said, the only interaction happens in private actions. Where two party members teleport to some other dimension and have a (usually pointless) 1 on 1 conversation.

Definitely follows the tradition of bad JRPG writing as well. Where you can describe each character as some stereotype, and EVERY single thing they say is like exactly what you’d expect from that stereotype. “Noble, virtuous knight”, “naive, virginal young maiden”, “edgelord rogue”, “ice queen out for revenge” etc.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
#94
Like I said, the only interaction happens in private actions. Where two party members teleport to some other dimension and have a (usually pointless) 1 on 1 conversation.

Definitely follows the tradition of bad JRPG writing as well. Where you can describe each character as some stereotype, and EVERY single thing they say is like exactly what you’d expect from that stereotype. “Noble, virtuous knight”, “naive, virginal young maiden”, “edgelord rogue”, “ice queen out for revenge” etc.
to each its own, I personally put over 100 hours in to this game and absolutely loved it and the battles never got stale especially once you get advance jobs and the bonus bosses is blast to beat. Not mention the soundtrack is soooo damn good, I would even say is as good as NieR Automata.
 
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#95
I've been disappointed in Final Fantasy since 13. 14 was god awful, then they re-released it and made it a wow clone. They shoulda just made it a better FFXI. I haven't played another MMO better FFXI since.

As for FFXVI, I hope they take their time with that one. rethink it, maybe go back to the days of 7,8 and 9 (didn't care for 10). Or get the FF7 remake done for Gods sake.
 
#98
Kinda sad. I'd have loved an "Ultimate FFXV" experience someday when all that stuff was done. I probably didn't help by not buying any of the DLC individually though, I wanted to wait until it was all out and do a replay of the whole game.

I felt that, in a lot of ways, FFXV was an improvement in the series over the failure of XIII (in my eyes, not in sales apparently). It wasn't great, but at least it felt like a proper adventure again, though you could tell the last half was extremely rushed. I think that if Tabata would have been able to fully flesh out his vision, it would have been a great FF game. It's a shame that the main game party was so limited to the 4 bros, and that they didn't really spend as much time on character development and co-existing with each other as the game often gets credit for.

Moving forward, I'd love to see a FFXVI that really got in touch with its roots again. I know Turn-based combat is really divisive, but if they made a true return to form in the story/world building/character development, I think it'd be an excellent match, and would receive a ton of positive word of mouth (something FF hasn't had in quite a while). After being completely blown away by Dragon Quest XI, I know for sure that people that work for SE still have what it takes to make a great classic JRPG, but just imagine what it could be with a FF budget thrown in.

Just my 2c, but I think it would do a world of good for both SE and the FF brand.
 
#99
Square Enix is good at gameplay mechanics and bad at stories (usually). Kingdom Hearts has fun combat but let's all admit to ourselves the story is insane babbling at this point. SE has many beloved spin-off franchises like Bravely Default, Octopath, and so forth because they all have good RPG mechanics.

But their main team lacks the necessary writing talent for these massive single-player productions.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Square Enix is good at gameplay mechanics and bad at stories (usually). Kingdom Hearts has fun combat but let's all admit to ourselves the story is insane babbling at this point. SE has many beloved spin-off franchises like Bravely Default, Octopath, and so forth because they all have good RPG mechanics.

But their main team lacks the necessary writing talent for these massive single-player productions.
No I completely agree that Kingdom Hearts has nonsensical story telling but I still find it fun and I care about the characters. I'm not only on this that lot of fans care about KH story as much as the fun gameplay.