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Square Enix lost 200 Million on Marvel games


"Embracer Group is planning to take over both Avengers and Guardians Of The Galaxy from Square Enix despite them losing money.

As fans and analysts alike try to make sense of Square Enix’s shock $300 million sale of Tomb Raider, and almost all their Western franchises and developers, the answer to the most burning question – why? – is becoming clearer.

According to senior MST Financial analyst David Gibson, the reason Square Enix sold Crystal Dynamics and Eidos-Montréal is relatively simple: between the Marvel Avengers and Guardians Of The Galaxy games they lost the company $200 million."

 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Guardians of the Galaxy was a fantastic game.
And Shadow of the Tomb Raider was better imo then Rise.
Eidos Montreal delivered and was dragged down by Crystal Dynamics
Damage was already done with Tomb Raider and people didn't give GotG a chance because of Avengers/Ms MTX
If I had to blame anyone it would be Crystal Dynamics.
 
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EDMIX

Member
Delivering a game no one wanted will cost ya.

Nah, with the right team...that game could have moved monster units. Consider no it would be like saying no one wants Spiderman due to the series getting low sales..........until Insomniac/Sony got a hold of it.

So maybe in some alternate universe, that game could have moved record units simply under someone else. We'll know when we see another Avengers game move like 20 million. I feel like Harry Potter will be next, I think a lot of what I'm seeing from that game sounds like it can be huge.

So someone wants it, they simply want the best team and publisher combo, delivery etc

kiphalfton kiphalfton nahhh, with the money they spent on that game, I'm doubtful it was just a Square thing, it sounds like the team itself may have just had a bad game being made or something, but who knows.
 
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Stuart360

Gold Member
Jesus, i know both Avengers and GOTG underperformed but what kind of ridiculous budget did they have?, $250mil each!?
Thats down to Square themselves, although to be fair when you see how well superhero movies do at the box office, especially The Avengers, they must of thought it was a no lose situation.
 
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ahtlas7

Member
Nah, with the right team...that game could have moved monster units. Consider no it would be like saying no one wants Spiderman due to the series getting low sales..........until Insomniac/Sony got a hold of it.

So maybe in some alternate universe, that game could have moved record units simply under someone else. We'll know when we see another Avengers game move like 20 million. I feel like Harry Potter will be next, I think a lot of what I'm seeing from that game sounds like it can be huge.

So someone wants it, they simply want the best team and publisher combo, delivery etc

kiphalfton kiphalfton nahhh, with the money they spent on that game, I'm doubtful it was just a Square thing, it sounds like the team itself may have just had a bad game being made or something, but who knows.
It lost 200 mil!
We are not talking about the brand. This is about the product that was delivered.
…. Guess I could entertain the idea that the whole reason to release the game(s) was to loose a bank load of cash, Producers style.
 

EDMIX

Member
It lost 200 mil!
We are not talking about the brand. This is about the product that was delivered.
…. Guess I could entertain the idea that the whole reason to release the game(s) was to loose a bank load of cash, Producers style.

lol Could be, but thats my point. Maybe its a game people want, by a team, publisher and a execution that they don't want.

Maybe it was to lose all that money lol


nikos nikos Trust me, if Spiderman flopped, you'd be say the same thing thing for Sony.

They fucked up, but Square was right to try. Thats the only thing I'd never bash them for. No way can that be seen as a waste. It sucks it didn't pan out, but they'd be even more stupid to assume a lose, not try and wonder if they could have done something more, shit folks on here might have argued "wasted opportunity to capitalize on the Marvel Brand, look at Sony with 20 million Spiderman sales, guess Square hates money and common sense and or puppies and a bike" lol

Now that they are done with it, they can focus back on their established IPs. I just can't fault them for trying something new, we had several publishers this gen that literally didn't do shit new (EA being the biggest lol) So maybe its better they tried, failed and moved on.
 
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Hilarious how people blame square enix for this without any knowledge of the management structure and just for their dislike of square enix.

Square enix didn’t make avengers. They didn’t make guardians. My guess is they didn’t make the deals either. Maybe they did though. They have a relationship with Disney through kingdom hearts.

Ultimately 200 million probably comes from efforts to fix these games that at the end of the day couldn’t be fixed. In the case of GotG it might have been advertising after the fact, but it still costs money.

Square enix is a poorly run company but I don’t think you can blame them for these western games underperforming.
 
Avengers was hot garbage, they tried to fix with gotg but it was to late, avengers should have been what gotg was, it would have sold like hot cakes.
Marvels Spider-Man was a pretty clear template for how to execute this but crystal dynamics isn’t really about quality. They wanted a massive cross platform GaaS scam.

Unsantiated by the 30 or 40 million copies this could have sold.

Maybe square enix was a driving force for this greed, who knows.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
Embracer Group is planning to take over both Avengers and Guardians Of The Galaxy from Square Enix despite them losing money.
Makes sense to include them after they took the loss instead of before. Most likely they come along in the bottom of the bag for free as part of the deal. GotG deserved to be successful, though.
 

Pejo

Member
S-E has been an awful company stuck in chasing trends for a good 10+ years now. No more big budget innovation or passion projects, now they strictly make their marquee games based on other games that have been big hits, and do it worse. I would love to see the current NFT bootlicking president removed and for someone that actually likes games to be put in charge. That guy wants to be a Kotick/Andrew Wilson so bad.

The worst part is, they still have good games coming out, but they either make them on tiny budgets, give them no marketing, or make other awful decisions like EGS exclusivity bullshit on PC and their lowest of the low-tier remasters of classic games.

These Marvel games were just another example of them chasing trends. "We want the Destiny money" and "we want the Spiderman money" combined into one. It's a damn shame that GotG got lumped into the same bucket as Avengers, since it was a legitimately good game that was guilty by association. Tomb Raider remakes have been "we want the Uncharted money". Deus Ex, don't get me started.

I'm usually 100% against 3rd party pubs getting acquired/merged, but anything to get S-E's current management the fuck out of there is good news in my eyes.
 
Marvels Spider-Man was a pretty clear template for how to execute this but crystal dynamics isn’t really about quality. They wanted a massive cross platform GaaS scam.

Unsantiated by the 30 or 40 million copies this could have sold.

Maybe square enix was a driving force for this greed, who knows.
Matsuda's response to Avengers made it sound like it was his idea.
 
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They fucked up, but Square was right to try. Thats the only thing I'd never bash them for. No way can that be seen as a waste. It sucks it didn't pan out, but they'd be even more stupid to assume a lose, not try and wonder if they could have done something more, shit folks on here might have argued "wasted opportunity to capitalize on the Marvel Brand, look at Sony with 20 million Spiderman sales, guess Square hates money and common sense and or puppies and a bike" lol

They should've kept quality bar high instead of releasing in a buggy state, that too just after Cyberpunk fiasco.

Also, GAAS games can take forever to get in good shape and take off. This has to be considered.
 

Wohc

Gold Member
What a shame GOTG was by far the best superhero game i ever played. Maybe it's because other franchises are more popular or maybe it's because they couldn't spend enough for advertising it.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
I'd love to know what Sony paid for that exclusive avengers deal. I bet it was tens of millions if not more. That was a bad decision but you can't blame them at the time, avengers was huge and probably looked like a no brainer.
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
Square Enix, no vision cash-grabbing nostalgia baiting, incompetent engine maker, outdated game design philosophy, just stinky 💩 Worst than Activision, blockchain NFT supporter, not worth having Square in its name...😮‍💨.

Just disappear already.
 

assurdum

Member
Guardians of the Galaxy was a fantastic game.
And Shadow of the Tomb Raider was better imo then Rise.
Eidos Montreal delivered and was dragged down by Crystal Dynamics
Damage was already done with Tomb Raider and people didn't give GotG a chance because of Avengers/Ms MTX
If I had to blame anyone it would be Crystal Dynamics.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Jesus, i know both Avengers and GOTG underperformed but what kind of ridiculous budget did they have?, $250mil each!?
Thats down to Square themselves, although to be fair when you see how well superhero movies do at the box office, especially The Avengers, they must of thought it was a no lose situation.
Who knows. The sales for each must be shit combined with probably getting hosed in a licensing deal. Well, them's the breaks. If a company wants to ride the comic book wave of products, most of the time it seems to be a big winner, but sometimes they bomb.

 

Robb

Gold Member
Feels like Square really burned their bridges with the Avengers game, all goodwill towards them making a good Marvel game just went up in smoke. Although I guess they slightly redeemed themselves with Guardians.

It’s pretty astounding how they could mismanage the IP to this degree, you’d think something like an Avengers game with high production values would sell gangbusters.
 
GotG is a shame. It was amazing.

Avengers? Lol, yeah that game failed hard. Both critically and commercially. I have no idea what they were thinking with the game design.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Marvels Spider-Man was a pretty clear template for how to execute this but crystal dynamics isn’t really about quality. They wanted a massive cross platform GaaS scam.

Unsantiated by the 30 or 40 million copies this could have sold.

Maybe square enix was a driving force for this greed, who knows.
SE got tempted by the GAAS model. Their games seem historically skewed to single player kinds of games. Ya they got FF online stuff, but when you got traditional FF, DQ, Deus Ex, TR, upcoming Forspoken, they're one and done kinds of games.

On paper it looks awesome. Combine Marvel with GAAS and you never know. It could had sold shit loads of copies and be a tentpole franchise that could use as endless monthly revenue.

Just googled it.... the game had $3,400 ,worth of cosmetic mtx to buy if you wanted it. And despite saying no pay to win claims, sold XP Boost for real money. Then dropped it after a month due to criticism. LOL
 

MonarchJT

Banned
Unfortunately the market is increasingly polarized. Either buy in bulk or absolutely snub the product. Gotg was an incredible game clearly people didn't trust a new game that could be another mediocre mtx trap ...... this is the fault of the media and also of word of mouth gived by specialized forums like this one, where most gamers complain about the slightest tiny thing. It is a dog that bites its tail places like GAF or Resetera influence the outlets which then influence the average consumer.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
SE has so many good IPs. I don't know why they wasted time and money on Marvel.
Their key franchises come out every 4-5 years. So in the meantime to keep the money humming, they release lots of odds and end games. No doubt Avengers was planned as a game that would sell a ton (Marvel comics) and have regular revenue streams as it was mtx heavy.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Unfortunately the market is increasingly polarized. Either buy in bulk or absolutely snub the product. Gotg was an incredible game clearly people didn't trust a new game that could be another mediocre mtx trap ...... this is the fault of the media and also of word of mouth gived by specialized forums like this one, where most gamers complain about the slightest tiny thing. It is a dog that bites its tail places like GAF or Resetera influence the outlets which then influence the average consumer.
Guardians got good reviews and I think most people I've read on GAF say Guardians is good.

So if it still lead to bad sales, it doesn't seem to be industry or gamers bad mouthing it. Likely culprit is bad Avengers, and as you said not trusting it. Cant fault gamers for that. Even though it's a different product, human nature is you second guess things based on precedence.

My company trashed an entire product line that was higher quality/higher priced line of stuff. Seemed like a good idea to offer an option and the product was good as we get free samples all the time. Much better than the base brand. But it failed miserably as people associate our line of products with the cheaper brand. It bombed after 2 years.
 

Mahavastu

Member
Guardians got good reviews and I think most people I've read on GAF say Guardians is good.

So if it still lead to bad sales, it doesn't seem to be industry or gamers bad mouthing it. Likely culprit is bad Avengers, and as you said not trusting it. Cant fault gamers for that. Even though it's a different product, human nature is you second guess things based on precedence.
Yes.
In the time before release, when usually the hype for the game should be build during the large shows, the reaction mostly was "looks like avenger, jokes are strange, I do not care about it". Even when the game had good reviews itself it was too late.
The bad avenger game killed Gardeners of the galaxy too...
 
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Avengers was a high risk high reward move. If it had worked out, they would've been making literal billions of dollars over the lifespan of the game. It didn't work out though.
 

SJRB

Gold Member
Avengers was a high risk high reward move. If it had worked out, they would've been making literal billions of dollars over the lifespan of the game. It didn't work out though.

Problem is that anyone could see this coming but Square themselves.

There is no way an experienced dev team like Eidos and Chrystal Dynamics didn't foresee this.
 

Kupfer

Member
They make mediocre to mediocre-good games in completely oversaturated franchises that have flooded the cinemas for the last 10 years. I observe it in myself and my surroundings, with each new marvel movie or game the whole act becomes more tedious and boring. Meanwhile I don't even follow these CGI overkill battles anymore, because nothing worth mentioning or anything that really has an impact or sticks in my mind happens anyway.
 

DukeNukem00

Banned
Jesus, i know both Avengers and GOTG underperformed but what kind of ridiculous budget did they have?, $250mil each!?
Thats down to Square themselves, although to be fair when you see how well superhero movies do at the box office, especially The Avengers, they must of thought it was a no lose situation.


Avengers i estimate around 200 million. And Guardians 150-170. Avengers was expected to bring big money. They were partenring with everybody. They even had Intel exclusive extra fidelity settings in the menu.

Games of this nature are extremely expensive to make
 


I love square enix jrpgs but giving a game of this magnitude to a studio like Crystal Dynamics is like signing your own death warrant
 
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