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Square-Enix should look back on what made past Final Fantasies so good

SantaC

SantaC

Member
Squeenix should stop trying reinventing the wheel and look back on what made 90s (and early 2000) Final Fantasies so good.

Stop with the shitty and streamlined battle systems (FFXV lol) and look at Final Fantasy X/X-2. If it aint broke, dont fix it.

Also the story doesnt need to be a clusterfuck like in FFXIII series and FFXV. Make it easy to follow.

Something I noticed with the older games is that they use fixed camera angles. You dont see whats behind the next corner. It sorta adds to the immersion imo. I wouldnt mind great graphics and fixed camera angles in a modern FF game. This is why REmake is still my fav RE game.

As for minigames, dont make too many of them, but invest in good ones (triple triad, blitzball).

But you bet that SE will screw up FFXVI with an atrocious story and a battle system that plays itself.

How hard can it be?
 
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Vawn

Vawn

Banned
I agree they should look at the older games, but please not FFX. That's the most overrated game in the series.

I'd rather FFXVI be closer to Octopath Traveler than FFXV.

Still, have you played FFXIV? Get over it technically being an MMO, and just play it like a offline game. It's a fantastic FF game with an overall story (with expansions) better than any other FF game.
 
R

RealGassy

Banned
SantaC2 said:
Stop with the shitty and simplified battle systems (FFXV lol) and look at Final Fantasy X/X-2. If it aint broke, dont fix it.
How hard can it be?
Click to expand...
But Final Fantasy X had a really shitty, brain-dead simple battle system.
It's hard to imagine that it's possible to have a battle system more basic than FFX.
 
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ULTROS!

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
The problem with FF is that it can never ever please the whole FF fandom. That goes for FFXVI and the upcoming FFVII Remake. Best to set your expectations.

- FFVI is forgotten by the younger generation but loved by the older generation.

- FFVII is loved by the younger generation but was compared always to FFVI (aka the story was copied!)

- FFVIII is diverse but there big fans of the characters (aka Rinoa)

- FFIX is diverse in terms of design too. There are people who hated the chibi/Fantasy design.

FFX-FFXV were also divided and there are sure haters.
 
DonF

DonF

Member
Square should look back and see themselves in the ps1 era.

Brave Fencer Musashi, Final Fantasy Tactics, Vagrant Story, Threads of Fate, Xenogears, Chocobo's Dungeon 2...and Final Fantasy!!

Square was one hell of a developer, taking risks, creating awesome and unique games...now its just final fantasy, no innovation nor risks...
 
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Shifty

Shifty

Member
Yeah, they should get back to designing interesting systems and take some cues from modern turn-based stuff that adds Paper Mario-esque reaction commands for attack and defense to spice things up a bit.

FF8 gave us the junction system, now they need to go one better.
 
cireza

cireza

Banned
The story in FF XV is one the most simple since the first games on NES. I still don't understand how people can find it complicated.

My wish is that they look at FF XV more than any other episode to make XVI. If people want Octopath Traveler, than they can simply play Octopath Traveler.

Older games have broken, tedious systems most of the time. I certainly don't want to endure this anymore. Plus FF VII Remake will probably have a materia system anyway, so you will get what you want.
 
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Fbh

Fbh

Member
I kinda think it's the other way around in a way. FF used to be the sort of highest end AAA RPG in the Ps1 era with some of the highest production values and nicest visuals on the system, and in trying to still cling to those standards the franchise has been suffering ever since the move to HD.

FFXIII looked amazing but lost a lot of traditional elements like towns and most NPC's and the level design was linear to the point of many areas of the game being almost literally a straight line. And they probably spent so much money on it that they had to make 2 lower budget sequels (with stuff like reused assets) to make up for it.

Then FFXV also looked really great and they turned it into this multi media franchise from day 1 with a big CGI prequel movie, and concerts and anime prequels and stuff. But the actual game felt like an incomplete mess with rushed ideas, a story where most of the interesting stuff happens off screen and a bunch of dull and janky boss fights designed to look great and nothing else.

Then you look at a whole bunch of lower budget games (even from Square themselves) like Xenoblade Chronicles 2, Octopath Traveler, Dragon Quest XI, Persona 5, Ni No Kuni 1, Tales of Whatever, Nier Automata, etc and they all seem to accomplish so much more on every aspect EXCEPT graphics and visuals (well except Maybe DQXI which looks amazing).
IMO they need to rethink what they want the franchise to be, lower the budget, focus on the basics and once they have that mastered again they can start thinking about going back to those super AAA production values.
 
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mortal

mortal

Gold Member
The last thing I want from Square Enix is to look to the past. They've been stuck in the past for so long already. The next big AAA entry is a remake from 1997.
I don't want FF XVI to be a retread of something very familiar. I want to be taken aback, I want to be surprised.

Ideally, I hope FF XVI's art direction is something they've never explored in any game before. Not the same medieval/steampunk dichotomy they've already explored for several games already.
Yes, I'm sure it would look very pretty in their new game engine on next gen consoles, but I just want to see the mainline games become more unique, both visually and thematically .

Maybe it's my age, but the writing for most recent Final Fantasy games is so mediocre. It's ranges from Saturday morning cartoon to low budget anime writing. And the vocal performances leave much to be desired. For once I would just like to experience a FF story actually written with adult players in mind. Something more challenging and substantive. Less reliance on tropes and conventional archetypes. More nuance in the characters and especially the antagonists. FFXV sort of attempted that, but the writing was so clumsy it just didn't work.

The one thing I would still commend them for is their willingness to experiment with gameplay mechanics and battle systems.
Between DQ, Octopath Traveler, The Bravely Default games, and the FF spin offs; going back to turned based seems sort of redundant and boring tbh.
 
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johntown

johntown

Banned
I would love it if they went back to fully turn based or at least give you the option to play that way. I prefer the battles that rely more on strategy than button mashing.

As far as story goes, I expect it to be weird and out there. Personally, I prefer more sci fi dystopian future stories than light hearted ones. I will admit though that I found FFXIII and FFXV stories harder to follow at first but I still think they are good.
 
Caffeine

Caffeine

Member
Just have a good coherent story with characters that have depth and general pacing.. thats basically been the problem for the last 5 console single player releases including type 0 hd. aka all that started as the fabula nova series.
 
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Daymos

Daymos

Member
There are plenty of other Square-Enix RPGs with turn based battle systems. Just play dragon quest, bravely default, and octopath traveler instead of final fantasy.

FF has to be the flagship game with mass-market appeal. The investors say so.

I just pretended xenoblade X was final fantasy 15 and went on with life... massive open world with giant robots instead of a car and Prompto.
 
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Rran

Rran

Member
Dragon Quest XI has become everything I want in a modern-day RPG. Endearing characters, a straightforward yet compelling story with well-implemented themes, fantastic presentation, a ton of content, customizable difficulty levels, and a refined turn-based battle system. And they actually manage to avoid coming across like a bad anime made for preteens! Everyone who grew up on 16-bit RPGs should play this game, it's amazing.

I haven't been interested in Final Fantasy since after IX, and even then, I don't think the PSX ones held a candle to what was on the SNES. I'm just about done hoping for a new FFVI...
 
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R

RealGassy

Banned
Cybrwzrd said:
Turn based is infinitely deeper than FFXV's flop around on the ground while the AI party kills the enemies while holding X gameplay.
Click to expand...
It's like a special olympics competition for the shallowest gameplay mechanics ever made.
One game takes 5 braincells to play, but the other takes like 2 or 3.
Which one has more depth?

So, uh, FFX is turn based, so um, it's more like Chess and Chess is smart, therefore...

Related question: Which Fisher Price Activity Center has more depth?
SIHTZQh.png

The vintage 1984 one, or the 1993 one?
 
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zeorhymer

zeorhymer

Member
15 was shit when it came out not because of the battle system, but because the story was a convoluted mess. Once they realized this, they added in content to straighten the story. Unfortunately, they couldn't do all of it, but it was enough to make sense of the mess. A lot of the games in the series were good in their own ways. The one I liked the least was 8.
 
Clear

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
DonF said:
Square should look back and see themselves in the ps1 era.

Brave Fencer Musashi, Final Fantasy Tactics, Vagrant Story, Threads of Fate, Xenogears, Chocobo's Dungeon 2...and Final Fantasy!!

Square was one hell of a developer, taking risks, creating awesome and unique games...now its just final fantasy, no innovation nor risks...
Click to expand...

Not all those risks paid off sales-wise,Vagrant Story may have gotten 40/40 in Famitsu, but it was a major flop for them.

The plain truth is that back then production costs were low enough, and the demand in their domestic market high enough, for even a moderate success in Japan to be enough to recoup the investment. Nowadays neither of these things are true and so global appeal is crucial especially for bigger projects.

20 years is a long time and both the business and market has changed drastically in the meantime. Its frankly pointless to try and draw equivalence between then and now.
 
DonF

DonF

Member
Clear said:
Not all those risks paid off sales-wise,Vagrant Story may have gotten 40/40 in Famitsu, but it was a major flop for them.

The plain truth is that back then production costs were low enough, and the demand in their domestic market high enough, for even a moderate success in Japan to be enough to recoup the investment. Nowadays neither of these things are true and so global appeal is crucial especially for bigger projects.

20 years is a long time and both the business and market has changed drastically in the meantime. Its frankly pointless to try and draw equivalence between then and now.
Click to expand...
agreed! but not every game has to be a AAA with a huge budget!

I just wish that they took more risks, develop more AA and lower budget games. They don't have to build a new engine (luminous) for every game. Just get proficient with Unreal and crank those numbers up!
 
TylersProphecy4.0

TylersProphecy4.0

Banned
It's going to be a graphical powerhouse no matter.

How about a story worth a piss this time, squenix?

Oh, and a game that is COMPLETE AT LAUNCH. Waiting two years after launch to play the full FXV was/is absurd. I hate playing games in chunks. I can wait just as long as you can and my money will keep me company in the meantime.
 
Bolivar687

Bolivar687

Banned
RealGassy said:
It's like a special olympics competition for the shallowest gameplay mechanics ever made.
One game takes 5 braincells to play, but the other takes like 2 or 3.
Which one has more depth?

So, uh, FFX is turn based, so um, it's more like Chess and Chess is smart, therefore...

Related question: Which Fisher Price Activity Center has more depth?
SIHTZQh.png

The vintage 1984 one, or the 1993 one?
Click to expand...
This is an awful post.
 
SantaC

SantaC

Member
zeorhymer said:
15 was shit when it came out not because of the battle system, but because the story was a convoluted mess. Once they realized this, they added in content to straighten the story. Unfortunately, they couldn't do all of it, but it was enough to make sense of the mess. A lot of the games in the series were good in their own ways. The one I liked the least was 8.
Click to expand...
I finished vanilla FFXV and shelfed it. Panic patched in story in a jrpg is fucking hilarious and sad.
 
Cybrwzrd

Cybrwzrd

Banned
RealGassy said:
It's like a special olympics competition for the shallowest gameplay mechanics ever made.
One game takes 5 braincells to play, but the other takes like 2 or 3.
Which one has more depth?

So, uh, FFX is turn based, so um, it's more like Chess and Chess is smart, therefore...

Related question: Which Fisher Price Activity Center has more depth?
SIHTZQh.png

The vintage 1984 one, or the 1993 one?
Click to expand...

I prefer the right angles on the one on the left, since a child could hurt themselves or others worse with it. It also appears more complex. It hasn’t been dumbed down out of safety. I’m gonna guess that is the 1984 one.
 
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mortal

mortal

Gold Member
Fuz said:
They just have to fire nomura.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say fire. The guy is talented and contributes much to the success of the series. Although I don't like that Square Enix have made him and his aesthetic the "face of Final Fantasy."
I'm growing tired of seeing his designs dominate the creative direction of the mainline entries, if nothing but for the lack of variety.
 
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mcz117chief

mcz117chief

Member
Bruh, Final Fantasy XIII-2 is absolutely fantastic and is my favorite FF game to date. FF X is ok but I don't think I will ever play it again, one and done for me. I guess it is up to personal preference, my top two are XIII-2 and Type-0, not many people feel the same and I played 1,4,X,XIII series, Tactics, Type-0, Dirge of Cerberus, World, XIV and XV most of which I completed. I enjoyed all of them myself. I think there is room for innovation as well as keeping to tradition, World is pretty much old school FF game with an added twist of stacking characters (which is pretty cool). We can have multiple FF games alongside each other.
 
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G

Gargus

Banned
The best square games were from the days of the cdrom where they had to focus on story, gameplay, mechanics, setting, etc. Ever since FF7 square has steadily made worse and worse games while making better and better cg scenes and graphics. Square seems to be a graphics whore company for the most part that rides its own coattails.
 
Ten_Fold

Ten_Fold

Member
I need final fantasy to go back to a fantasy setting for sure, gameplay is whatever I doubt we will get a main FF being turned based for a while.
 
StormCell

StormCell

Member
RealGassy said:
Being turn-based doesn't automatically make it deeper.
FFX requires exactly 5 braincells to play.
Click to expand...

But the newer stuff only requires 1 brain cell .

And if it's requiring lots of brain cells to do a simple battle (that thing that's supposed to happen hundreds of times and be actually fun to do), then they're over-complicating it.
 
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