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[Star Citizen - Squadron 42] CEO Chris Roberts adresses concerns on state of the game and roadmap changes

fspm

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Jun 11, 2013
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How about what people do with their own money is on them and you mind your own business? Thousands of people don't see this as a scam, because they haven't done anything that would indicate that it were so. They release ships that people willingly spend their own money on in anticipation of the release. Think of that shit as a pretty expensive MTX strategy that helps continue development and they don't have to be in debt to some faceless organization who dictates when they release and what they should change to fit the market - e.g. look at EA, and Activision and the developers of those publishers catering to mentally ill people because they're under the delusion it will make them more money.
As you say, Chris Roberts of the Pikachu clan.
 

xGreir

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Apr 1, 2019
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This a thread about Star Citizen, therefore, ppl can talk about it until their lunges come out. Period.

That said, I wouldn't call it a scam, but is obvious that something is not right at all here.

One of the biggest, in not the biggest, develop time, through crow funding, while, at the same time, earning more than hundreds of games in just "funding"... Going for more than a decade to develop rn.

It looks a lot more like a debt u had to ask for in order to rent a house, than a game, but well, if the ppl who pay this thing like that, there's nothing more to say.
 
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oagboghi2

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Apr 15, 2018
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Perfect analogy.

Like Theranos, this is not a scam in the sense that they are pocketing money and not working on anything, it's a scam in that they're all working to deliver on impossible promises made by the person in charge and they can't/won't succeed.
No it's not. It's not even close

Theranos never had a product. They had to buy Siemens machine and lie to their staff. Star Citizen does exist, and you can keep track of the development.

It is possible that a game this big can't be built, but that doesn't make it a scam like Theranos.
 
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Phrixotrichus

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Yes. Every other game company (or company that sells products or services in general) does not want money. Every company on earth is non-profit. Heard it here first folks
And they all lie or at least stretch the truth really thin if it makes them money. CR is no exception.... Just the sheer amount of bullshit concerning nearly every step of SC's development is exceptional. Everywhere outside of the religious gamer realm this would've been declared vaporware long ago with x lawsuits following right after....
 
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Abriael_GN

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No it's not. It's not even close

Theranos never had a product. They had to buy Siemens machine and lie to their staff. Star Citizen does exist, and you can keep track of the development.

It is possible that a game this big can't be built, but that doesn't make it a scam like Theranos.

Do you expect random internet haters who copy their "opinions" from Reddit to actually understand what the word "scam" means and not to use it at random when it does not apply in the vain attempt to make themselves look smarter?

Your faith in humanity is certainly stronger than mine. 😂
 
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SF Kosmo

...please disperse...
Jul 7, 2020
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No it's not. It's not even close

Theranos never had a product. They had to buy Siemens machine and lie to their staff. Star Citizen does exist, and you can keep track of the development.

It is possible that a game this big can't be built, but that doesn't make it a scam like Theranos.
Theranos did have a product that they rolled out to some test markets. It didn't do a fraction of what they promised and it was by no means a complete, working thing, but you could call it a "playable alpha."
 
Jun 2, 2017
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:messenger_grinning_squinting::messenger_grinning_squinting::messenger_grinning_squinting::messenger_grinning_squinting::messenger_grinning_squinting:
 

BlackM1st

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Apr 26, 2019
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Snake oil salesmen will always find their audience. But hey, if you have a money to burn, go 4 it.
 

diffusionx

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No it's not. It's not even close

Theranos never had a product. They had to buy Siemens machine and lie to their staff. Star Citizen does exist, and you can keep track of the development.

It is possible that a game this big can't be built, but that doesn't make it a scam like Theranos.

Actually, Theranos had a product, it just didn't work properly.

They bought the Siemens machines when they signed deals with Walgreens and had to produce results.
 
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Dec 14, 2008
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Star Citizen will always be remembered as the single greatest example of project collapse due to feature creep in video game development history.

Squadron 42 will never be finished, and neither will the rest of Star Citizen. It will just remain in development forever until day all the money really is gone and no more is coming in. Then there will be a reckoning.
 

ZehDon

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Looking down the list of long-in-development video games, I can't really see many that took this long to develop that ended up being worth the wait. Diablo III took eleven years of development, and ended up needing to be re-built from the ground up after launch. Duke Nukem Forever took 15 years. That length of development generally just highlights one thing: lack of cohesive vision. They developers are literally finding the game as they build it.

Oh well. Here's hoping that, when it releases, the folks who've invested cash in it actually get what they paid for.
 

Rikkori

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May 9, 2020
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Ambition, talent and just a big set of brass BALLS to do what the herd say you can't do always triggers people. It's funny to see it happen so identically across all gaming forums regardless of socio-political leanings. It triggers on a visceral level. And funnier still it's the people who spent $0 on it who spend so much of their time obsessing over it & discussing ad nauseam. :lollipop_beaming_smiling:

 

KyoShiRo330

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Jan 21, 2018
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Funny how it is also working.

Anyway, no world about the OCS which is THE big feature we need in priority for SC.
Playing at 40 FPS (when you are lucky enough to find a good server) and expecting to not have any bug that will kill your progress on your current mission is the most annoying thing. This and all the missing AND deactivated features that the lack of OCS bring.

About the content, it's far from being as completed as Elite Dangerous (I don't like the comparaison, two different philosophy but you brought this Chris). All the gameloop stuff he is talking about are just on a very, VERY early state.
It's one of the most beautiful game available right now and the attention to details is amazing but it need a lot more content.

For me two things can happen:
- The development will greatly accelerate and they will overcome the biggest obstacle to the advancement of SC: the OCS. SQ 42 alpha will be released early 2021 with a full release end of 2021 or early 2022. Then all the ontzent from SQ42 is added to Star Citizen and a REAL game is finally shaping up.
or
- Mismanagement and too big technological challenges, lies at the next Citizencon (or whatever is planned now) and we are in for another 5 years. But this time I think the community will be out of control and will trash this game like no other before is we don't see big improvement by 2021.

With more than 300 euros invested, I hope this project turn out good. But recently I (still) hope for the best, but I also prepare for the worst
 

Tschumi

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I honestly just think... I'm behind all this, but when they started selling spaceships for thousands of RL dollars, they diminished my enthusiasm a fair bit.
 
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Trimesh

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This a thread about Star Citizen, therefore, ppl can talk about it until their lunges come out. Period.

That said, I wouldn't call it a scam, but is obvious that something is not right at all here.

I have to agree with you - I don't think it's actually a scam, just a project that's always been ambitious and seems to become constantly more so. I was one of the original Kickstarter backers, and although objectively they failed to deliver on their promises, I don't feel ripped off because it's clear that a huge amount of effort has been put into this project. Either I at some point get a finished game, then great - if not, well I've wasted more money than that on a bad date in the past, so it's hard to get too upset about it.

My biggest issue with the project is that the funding model they seem to have settled on presents an obvious moral hazard - which is basically if you have a large revenue stream from people that are supporting the development process it creates a perverse incentive not to actually ship the product. The problem here is that getting the people that are not already engaged interested will require something a lot more complete than the "playable alpha" that currently exists, so it effectively turns into a race to see if you can get to that point before too many of the people that are currently supporting the project lose interest and the funding dries up.

I would love to play this game some time - but at this point I'm sort of resigned that it may never happen.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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This game will release. But not because the core game is done.

It will launch for $60 when that $300 million of KS money and venture capitalist money is gone and Chris Roberts realizes monthly donations are running thin.

What will happen is Roberts will announce a launch date to get more money and have some stupid disclaimer that it's a beta mode game and expect an unfinished game, and charging people money is a natural and proper way to fund the biggest space sim ever created.

Never mind that hyperbolic BS about 100 solar systems. Gamers will be lucky if this game has a proper core game in 5 years.
 
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Thickandblack

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I backed them the second it was announced, ended up spending about 500 about 1.5 years ago there was a thread about how to get a refund I jumped on that shit and was able to get a full refund. There was only like a couple week window I think because they changed a tos and you had to have ot signed in and accepted it.

Anyways biggest scam in gaming.
 

Le Big Mac

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Hiring 760+ employees in multiple studios. Really shitty way to scam money when you're spending all of it. But I don't expect the average gaffer to think that far ahead.
Are those current employee numbers or just contractors over the years in production? I'm inclined to believe it's the latter as its hardly surprising given the length of the project.
 
Apr 19, 2019
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Away with the fairies
How about what people do with their own money is on them and you mind your own business? Thousands of people don't see this as a scam, because they haven't done anything that would indicate that it were so. They release ships that people willingly spend their own money on in anticipation of the release. Think of that shit as a pretty expensive MTX strategy that helps continue development and they don't have to be in debt to some faceless organization who dictates when they release and what they should change to fit the market - e.g. look at EA, and Activision and the developers of those publishers catering to mentally ill people because they're under the delusion it will make them more money.

Seriously, this cult of hating Star Citizen is really annoying.



$102 doesn't make you an investor. You're merely a backer. You might see it as an investment, but you're not an investor. You have zero stake in the outcome of the game other than helping fund it.
Found the CEO.

What's your salary buddy
 

ShadowNate

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Dec 2, 2013
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SQ42 is supposed to release its beta this quarter. Of course it will not.

This is just one of many many dealines that SQ42 missed since 2014.

They had a plan to release a video on the progress on SQ42 a few months ago, which is a bad sign in itself, but were not satisfied with it, and kept postponing it. The video for the progress on SQ42.

Then came the infamous update about how they were planning to release a plan for their new roadmap for SQ42 and SC. A roadmap for a roadmap as everyone called it. In the year that they are supposedly releasing SQ42.

And Chris goes on a rant on how backers are unfair in criticizing the project's management and progress. Motherfucker, you have been lying to them for years. You sold virtual ships, poured money on misleading ship trailers. Sold space land. You decided to let scope creep destroy your project, and you placed that decision on a forum poll on the misleading premise and promise that it would not delay development time.

Chris is either lying or majorly incompetent. Or both. The over-optimist excuse does not fly.
 
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sono

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Some really great games have had a very long gestation. I am a glass half full kinda guy.
 

Teslerum

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Hiring 760+ employees in multiple studios. Really shitty way to scam money when you're spending all of it. But I don't expect the average gaffer to think that far ahead.

I mean, I know you think that sounds like a good thing.

Anyone who's ever managed a company (especially start-ups) just sees an absolute nightmare looking at that number. If there's ever a more prominent indication that the development is an absolute mess its that number.
 
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Panajev2001a

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We practice bottom up task estimation where the team implementing the feature breaks it down and gives their estimates of how long it will take them. Management doesn't dictate timelines, we just set priorities for the teams as there are always a lot more things to do at any one time than we have people to do them. We are constantly reviewing and trying to improve our AGILE development process and how we estimate sprints.

🤔... I have seen worse way to portray Agile, estimation and SCRUM (I do think that Star Citizen is not a poster child for Agile as a project management philosophy... or it is and then well, not going to open that can of worms 😂). Just finding it funny they go out of their way to put focus on how AGILE they are, how they practices bottom-up estimation and prioritisation, and then talk about developers estimating how long things take (Story Points as time? Some Agile coaches chocking on their breakfasts right now 😆).
 

Snake29

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Jul 30, 2013
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Funny how it is also working.

Anyway, no world about the OCS which is THE big feature we need in priority for SC.
Playing at 40 FPS (when you are lucky enough to find a good server) and expecting to not have any bug that will kill your progress on your current mission is the most annoying thing. This and all the missing AND deactivated features that the lack of OCS bring.

About the content, it's far from being as completed as Elite Dangerous (I don't like the comparaison, two different philosophy but you brought this Chris). All the gameloop stuff he is talking about are just on a very, VERY early state.
It's one of the most beautiful game available right now and the attention to details is amazing but it need a lot more content.

For me two things can happen:
- The development will greatly accelerate and they will overcome the biggest obstacle to the advancement of SC: the OCS. SQ 42 alpha will be released early 2021 with a full release end of 2021 or early 2022. Then all the ontzent from SQ42 is added to Star Citizen and a REAL game is finally shaping up.
or
- Mismanagement and too big technological challenges, lies at the next Citizencon (or whatever is planned now) and we are in for another 5 years. But this time I think the community will be out of control and will trash this game like no other before is we don't see big improvement by 2021.

With more than 300 euros invested, I hope this project turn out good. But recently I (still) hope for the best, but I also prepare for the worst

OCS is already implemented, so I don't know what you're talking about? Not sure about the fps, but not everyone can get the same fps in the game environment, but it is more than stable. I reach between 50/100fps in star citizen at 1440p and 4K between 45/75fps. The big network/feature implementations that are coming and will make the star citizen grow enormously are:

- iCache (nearly done)
- Physics refactor (done, waiting for iCache)
- Physical damage system + softbody destruction - (in development)
- Server Meshing - (in development)
- Quantum - (in development)

The first 2 are already implemented, and the second one is already ready, but it is waiting for iCache. This will include docking from station to station and ship to ship docking as well as snub craft undocking and mother ship docking. Other things that will eventually work with this technology are the Hull C, Caterpillar command module docking / undocking and escape pods.
 
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MadAnon

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Sep 11, 2018
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No it's not. It's not even close

Theranos never had a product. They had to buy Siemens machine and lie to their staff. Star Citizen does exist, and you can keep track of the development.

It is possible that a game this big can't be built, but that doesn't make it a scam like Theranos.
Theranos had Edison machines. They did few of the promised tests with wild results. Sounds like Star Citizen. Some kind of alpha with very few of the promised features, content.
 

Sparhavoc

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Sep 4, 2020
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Ah yes Scam Citizen. Pretty obvious when they have to argue against the criticism. Maybe stop selling spaceships in a game that's not even released yet.
 

shanestocks

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Feb 25, 2019
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Sorry but if you're taking over a decade or whatever to make a game and took hundreds of millions of dollars to create it and still have nothing close to an actual game despite the promises, I'm sorry, you get what you deserve.
 

Skifi28

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My biggest disappointment with modern internet discourse is that there's a significant amount of cynicism, especially in forum or reddit debates, and a portion of people assume the worst.

He's not wrong on that, but when it's been 8 years and you still charge tons of money for thin air to whales, you make it really hard for people not to be cynical about it. Perhaps a look in the mirror would really help.
 
W

Whataborman

Unconfirmed Member
He's not wrong on that, but when it's been 8 years and you still charge tons of money for thin air to whales, you make it really hard for people not to be cynical about it. Perhaps a look in the mirror would really help.

Not to mention that they have missed every single major deadline that they have set for themselves.
 

Zathalus

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On something of a related topic, I wonder if they have any plans to try and bring Squadron 42 to next-gen consoles.
 

Starfield

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On something of a related topic, I wonder if they have any plans to try and bring Squadron 42 to next-gen consoles.
Not gonna happen. Well with the new consoles maybe bc they have SSD's and way faster cpu's and gpu's now...but I doubt its gonna happen bc you'd still have to port that game to console
 

Hudo

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You know, there was a time when I really hated Microsoft for what they did to Bungie and Digital Anvil (Chris Roberts' last gig before he left the industry and returned with Star Citizen). The former were complaining about hard deadlines set by Microsoft and Microsoft pushing them to release stuff, same complaints were made by Roberts about how Microsoft treated Digital Anvil and how Freelancer (one of the best space games ever, IMHO) could've been so much more. Nowadays, I think that Microsoft probably were the reasonable ones in both cases. Bungie apparently works best when supervised (Activision left Bungie largely alone, if the bullshit that Schreier "reported" holds any truth) and Chris Roberts is apparently prone to feature creep, which Microsoft prevented.
That being said, fuck Don Mattrick into oblivion for closing Ensemble Studios.
 

Spukc

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do you ever reach the point when you like something that you just start thinking..
SHUT THE FUCK UP and start talking when it's out?

I did that with AMD and Nvidia.
Same with oculus. Hype is pretty pointless. Like watching E3 it's fun and all. But it's super far away anyway
 
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Zathalus

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Not gonna happen. Well with the new consoles maybe bc they have SSD's and way faster cpu's and gpu's now...but I doubt its gonna happen bc you'd still have to port that game to console
I know you need to port it, but the game should run well enough on the new systems, and Chris loves money.
 

DragoonWalker

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Star Citizen's development embodies the extreme of everything wrong with video game development today, indie or AAA. And the people who support it too, are at fault.
Things were so much better when devs kept their heads down and put out a finished product with a set amount of time and money, without fan/player input, investment, and demands of dev updates.

So many red flags in that explanation. Something takes longer than you expect? Cut it down or cut it out. Want to add new features that would push others back? Don't. That's feature creep. Teams not wanting to commit to their tasks? Fuck 'em, what do you pay them for? OG Roadmap not working? Get everyone back on track, instead of revamping it to fit their whims. Can't hit deadlines? Start hitting them at all costs no ifs or buts. None of this requires me to "understand game development", it's universal management 101 to get shit done. Infinite time+Infinite $ = infinite development.

Someone take this Chris guy away from his precious pet project monster baby, he's clearly not fit to be at the helm.
 

Starfield

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I know you need to port it, but the game should run well enough on the new systems, and Chris loves money.
well alot of the visual aspects of this game are actually still placeholder. They've build this game with future tech in mind.

Obviously things like ray-tracing didn't exist when development of SC began but they are looking into ways of implementing RT in the future so its not a tech that isnt thought of for a later implementation. (along with VR)
 

Zambayoshi

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Star Citizens may have infinite patience but I dare say the Calders do not. Their investment was meant to fund the SQ42 marketing. Instead, it's no doubt been used to keep the lights on. Chris Roberts is on a leash now, and the choke collar may be tightening. A pity CIG didn't treat its backers as it would have a publisher, because if it had, there would be a game right now. Maybe a smaller, shittier one, but completed.
 
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