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[TheMoon]

It's bizarre that this needs to be explained. I sucked at this game and died quite a few times, but with every return, I got twice as better as the last. I can't understand the negative response. I suppose I have more patience than the average gamer and I'm more curious about the new scheme before dismissing it because of its ambition being beyond my nostalgic lens.

I mean, do people realize what they have here? Do they even know? I can't even play the other games after this. It's too good of a sequel that it might as well be a new IP.

It's the old problem of games with experimental/different/complex/unconventional inputs that require a certain willingness to learn and adapt and engage from the player. It's a side-effect of most mainstream games (usually the ones with direct avatar control) playing the same.

 

[chaosblade]

It's bizarre that this needs to be explained. I sucked at this game and died quite a few times, but with every return, I got twice as better as the last. I can't understand the negative response. I suppose I have more patience than the average gamer and I'm more curious about the new scheme before dismissing it because of its ambition being beyond my nostalgic lens.

I mean, do people realize what they have here? Do they even know? I can't even play the other games after this. It's too good of a sequel that it might as well be a new IP.

It's definitely not something that's for everybody, it's not hard to see why people don't like the controls in this game. They are awkward to start with, there is a significant learning curve, and they feel arbitrary at best when games like Star Fox 64 and Sin and Punishment 2 worked just fine without them.

I've gotten a little better and beat a few more levels, but I'm just too clumsy to play anything close to resembling decent. I think I'll do well to beat all the levels at this point.

 

[robor]

They are awkward to start with, there is a significant learning curve, and they feel arbitrary at best when games like Star Fox 64 and Sin and Punishment 2 worked just fine without them.

I would find it hard to see 64 and 2 working fine with them. That is because Zero is an extension of the classical on-rail formula. You're better off looking at Zero being more akin to Virtual-On and its necessity for the twin-sticks.

 

[Refreshment.01]

It's definitely not something that's for everybody, it's not hard to see why people don't like the controls in this game. They are awkward to start with, there is a significant learning curve, and they feel arbitrary at best when games like Star Fox 64 and Sin and Punishment 2 worked just fine without them.

I've gotten a little better and beat a few more levels, but I'm just too clumsy to play anything close to resembling decent. I think I'll do well to beat all the levels at this point.

Well as you said, you have issues aiming in FPS and that's with years and years behind that control scheme. But glad to hear you are improving.

Well in those games, like Sin and Punishment 2, enhancing the physical sensation of actually controlling these shooting objects (vehicles or characters) wasn't a goal of it's design. So you see the controls as "arbitrary" but they do add someting to the experience.

i also think that some people refere to the controls as awkward because they parti from their custom to the dual thumbstick shooter setup. Zero's controls are layed out in a very logical manner, specially the Right Thumbstick, which encapsulates a series of functions that in the past would' ve take several other buttons.

Consider that im talking mostly in objective terms, by no means im suggesting that everyone should like how Zero controls. But that's just a taste thing.

 

[kunonabi]

Up to 50 medals but I still need to unlock six bonus stages. I must say the walker is really what's making the game click for me. Being able to transform in dogfight is really scratching that robotech itch. Sector Y is easily my favorite since it sort combines a bit of robotech and a bit of episode III into a really fun package.

I would loved the gamepad for my cinematic camera playthough of Shadows of the Empire back in the day.

 

[jariw]

I'm trying to play a level until I reach the gold medal status. Is there a list somewhere about the max hits for each phase of a level? (I get the feeling that some phases are easier to improve scores than others.)

 

[Theognosis]

To people who want another/more Star Fox: how do you reconcile the terrible/middling reception to this game? Do you just tell yourself it doesn't matter, or what?

Skill-based games like SFZ and W101 are becoming less and less popular, so I'm not surprised SFZ is getting low scores among so-called "critics" while interactive movies that require no skill at all like Uncharted 4 are getting 10's across the board. As a game developer/publisher, I think Nintendo is aware of this trend so I'd expect them to make more story-driven games that appeal to a larger demographic. At the same time, I don't think they'll ever abandon games that involve skill, timing and coordination because that's the thing that makes them stand out from the crowd. If anything, Star Fox Zero is a statement from Nintendo that making video games is not just about money. In some cases, art takes precedence over profit.

 

[TheMoon]

Skill-based games like SFZ and W101 are becoming less and less popular, so I'm not surprised SFZ is getting low scores among so-called "critics" while interactive movies that require no skill at all like Uncharted 4 are getting 10's across the board.

I call it, the Soulsian Paradox.

 

[SCReuter]

I'm just now realizing that the enemy battleships in Star Fox Zero are from the cancelled Star Fox 2.

That's pretty neat. And SFZ's Sector Alpha is like a combination of SF64's Sector Y and SF2's multiple battleship stages.

 

[RaginRoss]

I rented this and blasted through it in one sitting - had a lot of fun with it. May get it again in the future to try some of the alternate paths but I liked my single run.

Only annoyance was not realising you can do a U-Turn by hitting B in All Range Mode. I checked the Controls screen on Gamepad a few times and it seemed to be indicating I needed to flick both sticks downwards at the same time, which didn't work. A quick Google search revealed it's just the B button. Not sure if I was just being stupid when looking at the control screen.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

I call it, the Soulsian Paradox.

where a game with demanding gameplay, multiplayer, traditional controls and lots of content is praised, but a game with demanding controls, little content and no multiplayer is bashed

 

[mrmickfran]

Final verdict: This was the best Star Fox since 64 (not that it's saying much).

Does it surpass 64? Control wise, yes. Level design wise? Nahh. Sector Beta was the highlight of the game. No other level came close to it. Plus it had those stupid "protect the Great Fox" missions. 64 had amazing levels throughout. Only weak ones were Solar and Aquas.

Soundtrack is great, but if you're expecting it to surpass Assault's, you'll be disappointed. Assault's soundtrack was so fucking wonderful. Can't believe they managed to fit that on a GameCube disc.

Not a fan of Falco taking a backseat in the conversations though. Too much Slippy.

Since Zelda has been delayed, this will be my GOTY 2016 unless proven otherwise.

 

[TheMoon]

where a game with demanding gameplay, multiplayer, traditional controls and lots of content is praised, but a game with demanding controls, little content and no multiplayer is bashed

can we stop pretending sfz has no multiplayer when it does, pls?^^

 

[Kouichi]

Which makes the recent: "How much i hate Miyamoto threads" so amusing yet sad. The creative need to explore ways to use the Gamepad gave us the latest 2 entries in the franchize. As well as an animated short.

But taking some minutes to learn a different control system is just to big of an offense for the above to matter.

Seriously. If it wasn't for Miyamoto's constant interest in the series, Star Fox would have been long dead. I'm always praising the man for keeping my favorite Nintendo series alive.

It cannot be emphasized enough that we got a brand new game that finally harkens back to 64 and even reaches it's quality, a fun little spin-off, and an awesome animated short all in the same week! As a Star Fox fan, I've been ecstatic. I've always wanted Star Fox to get this much attention. Heck, with Miyamoto around, I'm honestly expecting a Star fox movie down the line with Nintendo's movie plans. A mobile game too while we're at it.

 

[RedZaraki]

Final verdict: This was the best Star Fox since 64 (not that it's saying much).

Does it surpass 64? Control wise, yes. Level design wise? Nahh. Sector Beta was the highlight of the game. No other level came close to it. Plus it had those stupid "protect the Great Fox" missions. 64 had amazing levels throughout. Only weak ones were Solar and Aquas.

Soundtrack is great, but if you're expecting it to surpass Assault's, you'll be disappointed. Assault's soundtrack was so fucking wonderful. Can't believe they managed to fit that on a GameCube disc.

Not a fan of Falco taking a backseat in the conversations though. Too much Slippy.

Since Zelda has been delayed, this will be my GOTY 2016 unless proven otherwise.

THIS is your game of the year? Really? Really?

You won't play a better game than this all year long?

 

[Llyranor]

A SF0 with a campaign as extensive and epic as W101 could have been my GOTY. As it is, I feel it's too limited in content.

THIS is your game of the year? Really? Really?

You won't play a better game than this all year long?

No need to be angry about it, bwahaha

 

[RedZaraki]

A SF0 with a campaign as extensive and epic as W101 could have been my GOTY. As it is, I feel it's too limited in content.



No need to be angry about it, bwahaha

I mean, I didn't mean to come off angry like, but this year is just straight up loaded with great games so I'm legit kinda surprised. Star Fox Zero is okay.....I guess.

 

[TheMoon]

THIS is your game of the year? Really? Really?

You won't play a better game than this all year long?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste_(sociology)

I mean, I didn't mean to come off angry like, but this year is just straight up loaded with great games so I'm legit kinda surprised. Star Fox Zero is okay.....I guess.

Saw this after my douchey-response but I'm still keeping it

 

[kunonabi]

THIS is your game of the year? Really? Really?

You won't play a better game than this all year long?

Doesn't seem too ridiculous to me. It's possibly the best game I've played this year along with Project X Zone 2. If he isn't a big fan of rpgs I could easily see why Star Fox Zero would be his game of the year when it's all said and done.

 

[RedZaraki]

I mean personally, Fire Emblem and Dark Souls III are already top dogs, and I know the new Pokemon will be good.

 

[mrmickfran]

THIS is your game of the year? Really? Really?

You won't play a better game than this all year long?

Yeah? I don't see the issue with liking a game with great gameplay, high replay value and a high sense of fun. But I guess it's not my call, you should tell me my GOTY.

FWIW, I did say unless proven otherwise.

 

[Theognosis]

where a game with demanding gameplay, multiplayer, traditional controls and lots of content is praised, but a game with demanding controls, little content and no multiplayer is bashed

Cooperative multiplayer in SFZ is top notch. The fact that it has no online component also makes the game playable in the next 100 years. I don't see the lack of "multiplayer" as a disadvantage in this sense.

SFZ's controls aren't as demanding as mastering controls in Virtual On, or mastering drifting in Daytona USA using manual shifting. SFZ's new gyro and dual screen controls give the players complete freedom that the old SF games will never be able to achieve using the old controls. It is demanding but rewarding. I will never want to go back to the old controls. I tried playing the old games but I have seen the light now.

As for content, more content via DLC can be added in the future. The core game is masterful as it is. Actually, additional content in many games today only pad an otherwise mediocre core game. SFZ will have none of that. Its training mode is a better game than many AAA interactive movies that are padded heavily. And that's not counting Star Fox Guard yet.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Cooperative multiplayer in SFZ is top notch. The fact that it has no online component also makes the game playable in the next 100 years. I don't see the lack of "multiplayer" as a disadvantage in this sense.

This is Reggie levels of PR spin.

 

[TheMoon]

This is Reggie levels of PR spin.

It's a bit needlessly hyperbolic but otherwise completely true.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

It's a bit needlessly hyperbolic but otherwise completely true.

Okay. So no game should have online multiplayer since we won't be able to play one that does in 100 years.

 

[Socreges]

It's a bit needlessly hyperbolic but otherwise completely true.

And someone born without a penis will never have to suffer through impotence. Hurray.

 

[TheMoon]

Of course the thing you take away from that is the needless hyperbole -.-

 

[Theognosis]

Okay. So no game should have online multiplayer since we won't be able to play one that does in 100 years.

We have thousands of game on Steam that specialize in multiplayer. I never said we should stop making online games, either. SFZ is a single-player (with coop) on-rails shooter and now pseudo-flight sim game. I like the game on its own merits and I don't want Nintendo to add online matches just for the sake of it. As a collector, I value SFZ more than any other game released this year. The game is not merely a "service".

 

[James Scott]

THIS is your game of the year? Really? Really?

You won't play a better game than this all year long?

It's pretty good. Probably my favorite of the year so far as well

 

[Spring-Loaded]

can we stop pretending sfz has no multiplayer when it does, pls?^^

Super Mario 64 had some sick multiplayer, I agree

We have thousands of game on Steam that specialize in multiplayer. I never said we should stop making online games, either. SFZ is a single-player (with coop) on-rails shooter and now pseudo-flight sim game. I like the game on its own merits and I don't want Nintendo to add online matches just for the sake of it. As a collector, I value SFZ more than any other game released this year. The game is not merely a "service".

What games that play like Star Fox, let all me SF:0, are on STEAM? Which ones have multiplayer? And that's not rhetorical, I'm genuinely interested in knowing.

Do you consider "multiplayer," to be a genre in itself, that people who see promise/value in multi for a given game would be placated with multi in any other game?

 

[TheMoon]

Super Mario 64 had some sick multiplayer, I agree

Super Mario 64 had no form of multiplayer. Star Fox Zero has a dedicated co-op mode = multiplayer. There's really no debating this^^

 

[Theognosis]

What games that play like Star Fox, let all me SF:0, are on STEAM? Which ones have multiplayer? And that's not rhetorical, I'm genuinely interested in knowing.

On-rails shooters don't need multiplayer--whether online or coop--to be great. Multiplayer mode in SF is like cherry on top. It's never the main course. If people are looking for multiplayer experiences, they should look at other genres.

Do you consider "multiplayer," to be a genre in itself, that people who see promise/value in multi for a given game would be placated with multi in any other game?

It was "multiplayer" in general, which is in line with your statement:

where a game with demanding gameplay, multiplayer, traditional controls and lots of content is praised, but a game with demanding controls, little content and no multiplayer is bashed

 

[Nerrel]

I finally forced myself beat the game and still don't really know how people could consider it GOTY. It's so short on content, and some of that content (gyrocopter) is garbage so clearly designed just to give the gamepad something to do. I didn't even find the final boss remotely interesting... I didn't have any control problems there. It took a few tries, but I generally knew how to kill him and managed to do it without much confusion. It just wasn't fun or interesting at all; same old SF64 shit being recycled as a showcase for new controls.

The only thing I really had fun with in the second half of the game was the last Starwolf fight, and even that wasn't quite as fun to me as any of the Starwolf fights from 64. The sector Omega boss made me think "hey, at least I'll be able to have some nostalgic fun with this one," then the fight turned into another lock-on centric shitfest where you circle around waiting for a weak point to come into view. A lot of people talk about how "you'd never be able to do this in the old Starfox games!" Ok... if this one hook is all the mechanic regularly leads to, no big loss.

I've sensed how much better at the game I've gotten while playing, and yes, there is a return for your efforts.... but the problem is that it's no fun. Getting better at the game hasn't made me any more interested in playing it, and frankly, I don't think the game is worth getting better at. As a rail shooter, it's got 'pretty good' levels at best. I don't consider this to be half the game Sin and Punishment 2 was, in any regard. The level designs aren't as interesting or dynamic, the bosses aren't nearly as fun, and the entire game is bogged down by trying to showcase a controller in a very intrusive way. The Wii remote was a great enhancement for S&P2, but they didn't design every facet of the game around using it in gimmicky ways to boost its usage (ie, you didn't have to shake it to sword slash). They just let the enhanced aiming speak for itself.

I'll still do another playthrough to see the levels I missed, but my opinion of this game has only gotten lower the more time I've spent with it. Getting better at the controls and removing them as an obstacle to playing has just made it clearer that there's not much to see otherwise.

 

[Pro from Dover]

How long did it take people to get used to the controls? I did the training twice, beat the first level (barely beat the boss), and died on the walker part of the second. So far I feel like I'm fighting the controls more than the enemies and just find them frustrating.

You can't aim effectively on the TV and you can't see your surroundings on the gamepad. It feels like they intentionally gimped both screens to force you to use both, otherwise you won't hit anything or you will run into everything.

I got used to it pretty quickly.
But things I had to do:
1. Sit differently than normal
2. Already be comfortable with motion and gyro controls
3. Understand that some days I'm on, and some days I'm off

 

[wild wild rice]

THIS is your game of the year? Really? Really?

You won't play a better game than this all year long?

Possibly! Uncharted 4 is pretty great so far, but I'm not sure I'm liking it more than Zero.

 

[kunonabi]

How long did it take people to get used to the controls? I did the training twice, beat the first level (barely beat the boss), and died on the walker part of the second. So far I feel like I'm fighting the controls more than the enemies and just find them frustrating.

You can't aim effectively on the TV and you can't see your surroundings on the gamepad. It feels like they intentionally gimped both screens to force you to use both, otherwise you won't hit anything or you will run into everything.

Not that long maybe 2 or 3 stages but then again I'm pretty used to using the gamepad for aiming and playing with cinematic camera angles. I really only use the gamepad to aim for enemies that are super far or off-screen otherwise I just aim from the TV view since I have no issues with accuracy there. What's taken me longer is just being more aware of the tools available to you. It took awhile for me to start using the walker during space sequences since I just forgot I could. Once I started treating the game like Robotech it really started to click.

I think this might be another Skyword Sword situation where having built up experience previously with alternative control schemes is pretty valuable. Switching from TV to gamepad views is pretty much natural to me at this point so Zero really wasn't that much of a huge shift as far as the basics go.

 

[Joegrine_TT]

Do people really consider this game hard to control???????. The controls are so easy man. I didnt even need practice to get used to it. Most of my errors was because of me. My girlfriend got used the controls on the second go of the game. I swear the control criticizing is really baffling!!!!!

 

[digita1alchemy]

Going for the hit medals really brings out the best in the game. Nearing the end of a stage and knowing you're close is really exciting. And the agony when you miss by 1-2 hits... It's definitely the best thing I've played this year, but I actually think 2016 has been pretty weak so far.

 

[The Boat]

Hey, even with Dark Souls 3 and Fire Emblem, I keep going back to SF 0 and I reviewed it, so I've had it for quite a while. It's just really damn good.

 

[illadelph]

Going for the hit medals really brings out the best in the game. Nearing the end of a stage and knowing you're close is really exciting. And the agony when you miss by 1-2 hits... It's definitely the best thing I've played this year, but I actually think 2016 has been pretty weak so far.

This is where the game really shines. In terms of running through the game from Corneria to Venom, the SNES and N64 games have Zero beat, but going for the medals and high scores make this game really fun.

 

[Llyranor]

Going for the hit medals really brings out the best in the game. Nearing the end of a stage and knowing you're close is really exciting. And the agony when you miss by 1-2 hits...

This is true. My fav score run level so far is the Zone 3 satellite mission because there's no all-range section after it to waste my time.

 

[NervousXtian]

sorta off topic.. but an co-worker of me just walked in and showed me some old nintendo stuff he had... used to be a Nintendo rep in central america back in the 80's.

A copy of Super Star Fox Weekend and T-2 Judgement Day return to Acclaim cart.

I wanted to take them so bad..

 

[kunonabi]

Finished all the Bonus mission medals so I'm up to 60 with just score medals to go. Does doing all the training mode stuff do anything?

 

[SCReuter]

Even if the game is visually sparse at times, I'm really happy with Zero's art direction. Everything is slick and colorful, and Fox McCloud and company haven't looked this cool since HAL's Melee in 2001.

It's a big step up from whatever Namco was going for in Assault IMO. This is how I've wanted a console Star Fox to look for so long.

 

[Refreshment.01]

can we stop pretending sfz has no multiplayer when it does, pls?^^

A rather strange stance to assume, as the Co Op mode is rather engaging and cultivates communication between players. It is also somewhat of a rarity, specially since the mode works in the main campaign and for an On Rails shooter no less.

It's also grants another star medal for how downright brilliant the control scheme is in reality. It basically gives the game a rather accomplished multiplayer mode without the need to increase the development time and costs exponentially, solving multiple problems with the same solution

It's is a good example of clever game design.

Maybe people not caring much about it haven't had the chance to try it?

 

[James Scott]

Even if the game is visually sparse at times, I'm really happy with Zero's art direction. Everything is slick and colorful, and Fox McCloud and company haven't looked this cool since HAL's Melee in 2001.



It's a big step up from whatever Namco was going for in Assault IMO. This is how I've wanted a console Star Fox to look for so long.

Yeah, the look is very cool as far as character designs go. Namco/RARE's more humanoid look is really bad in comparison and Command's plastic look isn't good either.

 

[kunonabi]

Well 70 medals for story and all golds for training mode. I'll hit up arcade mode tomorrow and I'll be done.

At the moment I think it's squeaked into my Wii U top 10. It probably won't hold that spot once I get into my import stuff though.

 

[Sami+]

Just played through it at my friend's house today. How can anyone even play with these controls? They seem fucking impossible. We played through the whole game in co-op and I controlled the Arwing while he did the shooting and the whole time we were both wondering how playing this game alone was even possible. His brother (who had bought and beaten it) watched us play and said "yeah I beat it with Nicole, I would never play this game by myself".

Out of curiosity I played a mission on my own and found it to be a total nightmare. Co-op was tolerable, but the camera was horrible. I kept feeling like my control was being taken away or challenged in bizarre ways, which I never felt in Star Fox 64.

The story was awful and doesn't get enough shit. Complete waste of time, didn't feel even a hint of emotional investment and honestly only four hours later I barely even remember it.

6/10. If they wanted to make a co-op Star Fox they should have given it a control scheme usable by humans and let P2 be Falco. I was wishing I was playing that the whole time I played this. As it is we saw the credits roll and after doing the secret mission on Corneria (his brother said it was cool) we both got frustrated and went back to Smash, which we played with Gamecube controllers. Had a good time.

 

[SCReuter]

Does this person have the current world records for Training Mode? I'm three points away from matching his 442 Walker score.

 

[jariw]

Just played through it at my friend's house today. How can anyone even play with these controls? They seem fucking impossible. We played through the whole game in co-op and I controlled the Arwing while he did the shooting and the whole time we were both wondering how playing this game alone was even possible. His brother (who had bought and beaten it) watched us play and said "yeah I beat it with Nicole, I would never play this game by myself".

Out of curiosity I played a mission on my own and found it to be a total nightmare. Co-op was tolerable, but the camera was horrible. I kept feeling like my control was being taken away or challenged in bizarre ways, which I never felt in Star Fox 64.

The story was awful and doesn't get enough shit. Complete waste of time, didn't feel even a hint of emotional investment and honestly only four hours later I barely even remember it.

6/10. If they wanted to make a co-op Star Fox they should have given it a control scheme usable by humans and let P2 be Falco. I was wishing I was playing that the whole time I played this. As it is we saw the credits roll and after doing the secret mission on Corneria (his brother said it was cool) we both got frustrated and went back to Smash, which we played with Gamecube controllers. Had a good time.

Summary: Don't try new ways of playing games.