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Star Trek Voyager is kind of over-hated I think

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davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks


The Doctor is such a consistently well written and developed character that he almost feels like he's from a different Star Trek series at times.

Probably one of my favorite episodes across all of Trek was realizing in the one episode it was the backup of the Doctor in the future and not the actual one. Kind of blew my mind at the end when I realized it

They kind of ruined his character near the end of the show though or stopped using him all that much, I can't remember. The Doctor episodes were always the ones to get excited for
 
You know what? Other people in here are right. Season 3 and 4 are up there with the best of Trek - or they are at least approaching it. Enterprise is way better than Voyager.
 

Dougald

Member
You know what? Other people in here are right. Season 3 and 4 are up there with the best of Trek - or they are at least approaching it. Enterprise is way better than Voyager.


The end of Season 4 is pretty bad, but the rest is ok. Season 3 of Enterprise is legitimately great (and in a lot of ways did what Voyager should have with a similar concept), it's just a pity most of us had stopped watching by then
 

Schlorgan

Member
The end of Season 4 is pretty bad, but the rest is ok. Season 3 of Enterprise is legitimately great (and in a lot of ways did what Voyager should have with a similar concept), it's just a pity most of us had stopped watching by then

Looking back, Season 3 reminds me a lot of Mass Effect and that's pretty awesome.
 

Sephzilla

Member
The finale of Voyager still pisses me off for three reasons
  1. The Doctor didn't get Seven of Nine in the end, even though the later seasons were basically building up to that.
  2. We don't get to see the Voyager crew return home, reassimilate into society, get debriefed by Starfleet, nothing. And no the alternate future part doesn't count. I would have loved to see a Picard cameo where he meets Seven. Instead Voyager arrives home, queue credits. Yuck
  3. Janeway wasn't thrown in jail immediately.
 
The finale of Voyager still pisses me off for three reasons
  1. The Doctor didn't get Seven of Nine in the end, even though the later seasons were basically building up to that.
  2. We don't get to see the Voyager crew return home, reassimilate into society, get debriefed by Starfleet, nothing. And no the alternate future part doesn't count. I would have loved to see a Picard cameo where he meets Seven. Instead Voyager arrives home, queue credits. Yuck
  3. Janeway wasn't thrown in jail immediately.

I thought riker would have turned up and debriefed seven tbh.
 
I thought riker would have turned up and debriefed seven tbh.

Debrief would have taken months, I totally agree that show needed a coda but after that long in space with minimal contact they would have suspended the entire crew just to catch up on everything that happened + the tech involved.

That era of ST sort of ran its course though, Voyager comes back as a supership, Borg have been defanged, they run back with tons of tech loot and then we all get punched in the face with the terrible Nemesis film. I'm not happy with the JJverse but rerolling does make sense given where things where at.
 

digdug2k

Member
I like Voyager. Felt like more TNG to me, and I love TNG too. But I always thought DS9 was just about the worst Trek series I ever watched, so I don't think I'm a real Trekie.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
That era of ST sort of ran its course though, Voyager comes back as a supership, Borg have been defanged, they run back with tons of tech loot and then we all get punched in the face with the terrible Nemesis film. I'm not happy with the JJverse but rerolling does make sense given where things where at.

I'm not entirely disagreeing but Voyager ended...then we got a prequel series, a shit Nemesis, a reboot and now another prequel series. Voyager ended 15 years ago and kinda closed the boot on that time period. I would like to see it move forward as opposed to sideways and back in its playbox.
 
Hate is a strong word, but I would say Voyager was a disappointment in terms of the potential it had for multi-episodic arcs/character development/new characters etc... but became little more than 'New Species of the Week' episodes and hit the reset button after any major event.

Voyager should have returned to earth with a motley crew of OG Voyager, Maquis and random Delta quadrant aliens, the ship patched together with whatever alien tech they managed to salvage. The fact they return in a ship that is probably better than when they left, yet had to suffer the hardship of Neelix's cooking (and indeed, the character himself) is just the icing on a very disappointing cake.
 

t-storm

Member
Yes!

Was going to make this thread as I'm making my way through the whole series and just got to season three.

I've always been a Voyager hater and never really gave it a chance.

I've been enjoying it more than I thought I would. I think the cast really found its stride right from the start, much earlier than other ST series. One can tell that they all click and the dynamic is strong right at the outset. May have been a weakness in that momentum suffered later on.

I do think it's still one of the weaker series (boring villains so far, cheap special effects) but not any less interesting because of the characters and overall premise. I'll keep watching until the end.
 

Sephzilla

Member
I would have handled the last two seasons of Voyager differently, in general. I would have ended Season 6 with Voyager crossing into Alpha Quadrant space. But then just as the bridge crew starts cheering because they're that much closer to home, you have Tuvok calmly trying to get Janeway's attention. Then end season six with Tuvok saying;

"While it is correct that we have entered the Alpha Quadrant, we have apparently crossed into Romulan Star Empire space"

Boom. Now season 7 becomes a huge cat and mouse game between Voyager, the Romulans, and the Federation. Voyager has to sneak through Romulan space. The Federation has to keep tabs on Voyager without letting the Romulans know a Federation ship is in their space. And the Romulans have to put up a front to the Federation that makes it look like they don't know Voyager is there, but they actually know it's there and are actively trying to capture it. Now you have the crew on edge because they're up against an enemy that they're actually familiar with, and everyone's afraid of being destroyed so close to the finish line.
 


The Doctor is such a consistently well written and developed character that he almost feels like he's from a different Star Trek series at times.

He is basically Data 2

Man made intelligent slowly developing over the course of a TV show becoming more "human" with each season.

Comedy relief with "awkward computer thing tries to act human" stories.

Heck they even basically did the same "go to trial to see if he can have rights" episode later in Voyager.


Doctor is still the best part of Voyager though. I'd say they probably did a better job with him then they did with Data.
 

enigmatic_alex44

Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
I always knew time would be kind to Voyager.

TOS sucks, Next Generation is goofy and Enterprise is straight up trash. Voyager and DS9 are the only good Trek shows, though Voyager has a leg up on DS9 as it has one advantage:

Trek's best Captain: Janeway.
 
Totally agree that the Doctor was Data 2, and also agree that in some ways he was handled even better. Data was Pinocchio, the Doctor was more of a terrifyingly competent Mr. Bean. And also had a hell of a cameo on First Contact.

Hate is a strong word, but I would say Voyager was a disappointment in terms of the potential it had for multi-episodic arcs/character development/new characters etc... but became little more than 'New Species of the Week' episodes and hit the reset button after any major event.

Voyager should have returned to earth with a motley crew of OG Voyager, Maquis and random Delta quadrant aliens, the ship patched together with whatever alien tech they managed to salvage. The fact they return in a ship that is probably better than when they left, yet had to suffer the hardship of Neelix's cooking (and indeed, the character himself) is just the icing on a very disappointing cake.

It drove us all nuts while the show was airing, but the ST powers that be at the time (probably backed by Network ratings) were convinced that serial dramas would hemorrhage ratings because viewers who miss an episode would be hopelessly lost. So the writers had to keep resetting the ship with every episode, giving us a vague feeling that "times were tough" even if the ship and crew were always in roughly the same condition.

Sad, because DS9 showed how powerful serial dramas could be (and even moreso today where the format dominates the critical acclaim landscape) but back then for whatever reason it was ratings or bust...(eventually what happened anyway)
 
He is basically Data 2

Man made intelligent slowly developing over the course of a TV show becoming more "human" with each season.

Comedy relief with "awkward computer thing tries to act human" stories.

Heck they even basically did the same "go to trial to see if he can have rights" episode later in Voyager.


Doctor is still the best part of Voyager though. I'd say they probably did a better job with him then they did with Data.

I was going to say, the Doctor is so good that I think he's a better character of that archtype than Data was. No disrespect to Spiner, great actor in that role, but the Doctor felt more interesting and was given a lot more freedom to emote, as while he was a program, he felt like he had more wiggle room.
 

Sephzilla

Member
The Doctor is totally Data 2.0 but that doesn't take away from my enjoyment of either character. Mostly because they're portrayed pretty differently.
 
Oh I think Voyager is definitely the worst. Better than Nemesis but overall just junk. The doctor was great but so many abominable characters otherwise. Like if they moved to a serial plot structure I'd just hope half of them pulled the TNG romulan time disappearance trick.

I always remember the "Harry goes home" episode, thinking "hey, there's a real character here" but it just gets shoved in the garbage and I end up remembering his girlfriend is a recast Klingon.
 
Debrief would have taken months, I totally agree that show needed a coda but after that long in space with minimal contact they would have suspended the entire crew just to catch up on everything that happened + the tech involved.

That era of ST sort of ran its course though, Voyager comes back as a supership, Borg have been defanged, they run back with tons of tech loot and then we all get punched in the face with the terrible Nemesis film. I'm not happy with the JJverse but rerolling does make sense given where things where at.

Riker can debrief any woman in less than 10 minutes.

He is basically Data 2

Man made intelligent slowly developing over the course of a TV show becoming more "human" with each season.

Comedy relief with "awkward computer thing tries to act human" stories.

Heck they even basically did the same "go to trial to see if he can have rights" episode later in Voyager.


Doctor is still the best part of Voyager though. I'd say they probably did a better job with him then they did with Data.

Every show had this archtype of the outsider. Spock, Data, Odo, The Doctor (and then Seven) and T'Pol (I guess).
 

liquidtmd

Banned
I would have handled the last two seasons of Voyager differently, in general. I would have ended Season 6 with Voyager crossing into Alpha Quadrant space. But then just as the bridge crew starts cheering because they're that much closer to home, you have Tuvok calmly trying to get Janeway's attention. Then end season six with Tuvok saying;

"While it is correct that we have entered the Alpha Quadrant, we have apparently crossed into Romulan Star Empire space"

Boom. Now season 7 becomes a huge cat and mouse game between Voyager, the Romulans, and the Federation. Voyager has to sneak through Romulan space. The Federation has to keep tabs on Voyager without letting the Romulans know a Federation ship is in their space. And the Romulans have to put up a front to the Federation that makes it look like they don't know Voyager is there, but they actually know it's there and are actively trying to capture it. Now you have the crew on edge because they're up against an enemy that they're actually familiar with, and everyone's afraid of being destroyed so close to the finish line.

Ok Seph, now you've made me sad this is gold.
 

enigmatic_alex44

Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
What shocked me is learning the actresses who played Janeway and Seven of Nine allegedly hated each other on set but it doesn't come across that way on screen (due to the good acting).
 
What shocked me is learning the actresses who played Janeway and Seven of Nine allegedly hated each other on set but it doesn't come across that way on screen (due to the good acting).

Mulgrew gets nothing but retroactive props given the strength of her performance on Orange is the New Black. She's great. Dunno what happened to Jeri Ryan.
 
What shocked me is learning the actresses who played Janeway and Seven of Nine allegedly hated each other on set but it doesn't come across that way on screen (due to the good acting).

I saw this recently in another Voyager thread. I think it's fair to say that it was more like Janeway hated Seven, rather than it being mutual (Mulgrew didn't like another actress being given top billing on the show. I believe she has gone on the record to say she's not proud of how she behaved)
 
Seph your idea is great, but now just imagine it weighed down with Chakotay episodes and resetting every week to explain how they are getting around Romulan territory without a cloaking device.

Maybe they paint the ship green.
 
What shocked me is learning the actresses who played Janeway and Seven of Nine allegedly hated each other on set but it doesn't come across that way on screen (due to the good acting).

Don't think there was ever any doubt about Mulgrew's acting, but they gave her 7 years of complete shit to work with
 
2 things:

1. The Doctor is a better version of Data.

2. The best Doctor episode was DS9's Doctor Bashir, I presume?"


I think the reveal that Chakotay was partially based on the cultural expertise of a white dude pretending to be of Cherokee ancestory is emblematic of the series as a whole. An interesting premise that is ultimately false.
 
I saw this recently in another Voyager thread. I think it's fair to say that it was more like Janeway hated Seven, rather than it being mutual (Mulgrew didn't like another actress being given top billing on the show. I believe she has gone on the record to say she's not proud of how she behaved)

You had the first female captain and then they shove Jeri Ryan's breasts and ass on screen to get viewers. It had to pain Mulgrew to have that forced on her watch.
 
It sucks that Seven became the focus of the show with how lowest common denominator she was, but at the same time she was a great character that had some great episodes. Except for all the shit with the kids. That was awful.
 
It sucks that Seven became the focus of the show with how lowest common denominator she was, but at the same time she was a great character that had some great episodes. Except for all the shit with the kids. That was awful.

I feel like she ended up being a great actress... It's just a shame she was put into that outfit because it took a lot away from what actually made her good.
 

enigmatic_alex44

Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
To her credit, bringing on Seven and killing off that awful Kes and sidelining Neelix was when the show became the best Trek from Seasons 4 - 7.

It basically became the Janeway/Seven/Doctor show. Poor Chakotay.
 
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