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Spoilers Star Wars IX Open Spoilers, Leaks, Trash Talk, etc. (***Warning SPOILERS***)

Saruhashi

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adding insult to injury, Little White broom boy is a future Jedi but Finn who was marketed that way at first, he’s just a total joke. that last scene is a final fuck you to anyone who wanted him to have any dignity. “Jedis can come from anywhere even this little janitor, but definitely NOT Finn, who is just a dumb janitor”
I think they missed out on an opportunity to have Finn be a character that can use the force but is not affiliated with the Jedi or Sith in any way.

So weird to have the guy start out by being traumatized by war and then be celebrating blowing up his ex-comrades within a day.
Would have been better to have him as a straight up anti-war character who uses The Force for some kind of separate agenda.

It's infuriating that the new ones do almost nothing to explore SW lore or interesting aspects of the SW universe.

I don't even get the idea that "TLJ is showing that ANYONE can be a Jedi" when actually the prequels show loads of Jedi anyway and don't really do much to say that it is some closed shop since we see all kinds of weird alien Jedi all over the place.
 

#Phonepunk#

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it sounds like cucked Finn is going on another pointless side mission in this while the Real Heroes rummage through the OT garbage bin.
  • In Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker, there are rumors that Finn and Jannah go on a suicide mission against General Pryde’s Super Star Destroyer. Apparently, Jannah was a Stormtrooper or they tried to kidnap her and she escaped but for whatever reason, her vendetta against The First Order is personal. There are rumors she’s Finn’s sister but sources have not confirmed that connection as of now. I also touch on a bizarre rumor that Finn still has a thing for Rey but can’t seem to let her know over the course of the film.
  • There is a rumor that Kylo Ren discovers Palpatine while investigating the unknown regions for the source of Snoke’s power.
  • Sources have dismissed See-Threepio with a bowcaster, Chewie’s bandolier, and Rey’s staff as pertaining to any large action filled moment in the film.

 
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#Phonepunk#

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apparently Rian put out a statement recently that they aren't really pressing forward at the moment, he's openly thinking of doing another movie before/during (?) it. seems more and more tenuous as time goes on.
“The truth is they’re still figuring out their schedule, their game plan, so if it’s possible for me to squeeze in another film before or while working on that, I will.
also we got more new leaks.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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fwiw i despise bringing back Palpatine in the flesh. that alone is reason to skip this trash.

for everyone saying "JJ better have a good explanation for this" I guarantee he won't, it won't be explained in any way, because we are expected to take this slop and not complain. the people demanding answers will be ridiculed as toxic fans once again.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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so yeah, whew, it looks like Rey Palpatine is what we're getting. this is a franchise killer IMO. quite possibly the worst way to do this. so we have a good but still training Jedi and an evil fallen Sith and the Emperor is trying to manipulate them, literally a repeat of ROTJ. they are even going to the Death Star.

Lando gets ruined, I guess after ROTJ he had a life and met a woman and had a child, who was taken away by the bad guys, cos he never really won anything, and that victory was entirely hollow. R2 isn't mentioned here, he is just swapped out for BB-8. plus they will ruin the Emperor just as they ruined the other OT characters. now he is trying to get an incel laid. honestly, I can't believe this is actually going to be the story. it sounds so dumb. but again, that's why it seems so possible.
 
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Nymphae

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I hope the bad guys win, honestly. Would make for a memorable storyline at least
I read this and thought, who the hell are the bad guys even? Like Kylo just wanted Luke gone right? And was subservient to Snoke, who is now dead. So you have a First Order Army, Kylo, and the redhead dude I guess, serving no master. I guess it could have built on Kylo wanting to turn Rey and take over the galaxy together or something? For some reason? But the more I think about it, the more obvious it seems that they had to put Palpatine into the mix, because there was no other Bad Guy drive going forward or main Baddies to deal with aside from Kylo.

Maybe JJ was right and Snoke living or dying didn't really matter, because he was a failed/temporary clone of the emperor or something and they could have dealt with that in the third one easily.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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I read this and thought, who the hell are the bad guys even?
indeed. moral relativism has poisoned the franchise. one big problem with the last film was the good guys were no better than the bad guys. in fact they were worse. we never see a FO soldier incapacitated and dragged off. we never see a FO commander talk down to his subordinates to the point of mutiny. we see them paying DJ in full and letting him go free. we see their commanders telling everyone the plan, the way a real military might.

Rose's bullshit speech at Canto Bight summed it up in the dumbest way possible: the "real villains" were the people profiting from the war. capitalism is the real evil! the evil people selling weapons to the First Order AND the Resistance. yet the Resistance, while buying from these evil people, I guess they are not complicit in this. at least if you shut off your brain. while perhaps a sad truth of our reality, this sequence drove a stake through the heart of the fictional conflict itself. it doesn't even cross her mind to consider that by working for a system that is helping to prop up the "evil war profiteers", she is entirely full of shit. they Both Sides-ed Star Wars.

RJ considers Kylo to be nowhere near as Darth Vader, as silly as that sounds, which is one reason this whole thing is on major rocky territory. even though in the first film we see him overlooking the elimination of 5 planets in comparison to the OT Death Star's 1. tbh I wonder if he has seen TFA. the Emperor swooping in at this point as the "real" main baddie would be like if Godzilla showed up in 1945 and the Ally powers worked with Hitler to defeat him. sounds like Hux will be a mole, and possibly even work with the Resistance, which is just great, a man who was last seen frothing at the mouth with religious ferver about cleansing the galaxy, as the giant Starkiller Base eliminated billions of lives, even this man can be a hero. ugh.
 
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NickFire

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If they are doing flashbacks, Anakin's / Vader's assault on the Jedi Temple needs more fleshing out on screen.
 
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-Arcadia-

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I actually like those latest spoilers up above, minus the end of Act 1, which is said to be a fake-out in other spoilers.

If this is real, JJ stepped in a pile of shit and actually managed to salvage a good story out of it.

...Which is why I doubt it’s real. Cool fan-fic at the least, though.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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reads like a plot written backwards to me. "They have to get X so that they can go to Y and then meet up with Z". there are like 4 fetch quests in the first 1/3rd of this movie.

still can't get over Palpatine being a shipper. him ordering Kylo to bring him Rey. maybe they could get away with that if they hadn't done exactly the same thing in the last movie.
 
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Nymphae

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I just read that spoiler stuff a few posts up. How the fuck is that an ending? It was believable up until then, there is no way this thing ends like that.
 
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Barsinister

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I am just going to post this here. I hope you all enjoy the new movie when it releases if you have a mind to go see it. I just can't. I hated the Rogue One movie, I had to watch The Force Awakens twice to know that I hated it and never saw The Last Jedi or Solo. I still think I like Star Wars, but I don't like anything past the OT anymore. Please carry on. I needed to get that off my chest.
 

-Arcadia-

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reads like a plot written backwards to me. "They have to get X so that they can go to Y and then meet up with Z". there are like 4 fetch quests in the first 1/3rd of this movie.

still can't get over Palpatine being a shipper. him ordering Kylo to bring him Rey. maybe they could get away with that if they hadn't done exactly the same thing in the last movie.
Given the atrocious state of things though, from the movies, to the fan treatment self, some slightly inorganic McGuffins are the least of my worries. I thought the Palpatine reasoning seemed solid enough as well.

But hey, my expectations are somewhere under the basement at this point.

I just read that spoiler stuff a few posts up. How the fuck is that an ending? It was believable up until then, there is no way this thing ends like that.
Lol, it threw me for a second too. It’s the end of the first act, or at least the proposed end. There will be more spoilers coming detailing the other two.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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Yeah parts 2 and 3 drop soon supposedly

Rey might end up bringing back Papls. way to make your main hero into the biggest idiot of all time
 
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Saruhashi

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indeed. moral relativism has poisoned the franchise. one big problem with the last film was the good guys were no better than the bad guys. in fact they were worse. we never see a FO soldier incapacitated and dragged off. we never see a FO commander talk down to his subordinates to the point of mutiny. we see them paying DJ in full and letting him go free. we see their commanders telling everyone the plan, the way a real military might.

Rose's bullshit speech at Canto Bight summed it up in the dumbest way possible: the "real villains" were the people profiting from the war. capitalism is the real evil! the evil people selling weapons to the First Order AND the Resistance. yet the Resistance, while buying from these evil people, I guess they are not complicit in this. at least if you shut off your brain. while perhaps a sad truth of our reality, this sequence drove a stake through the heart of the fictional conflict itself. it doesn't even cross her mind to consider that by working for a system that is helping to prop up the "evil war profiteers", she is entirely full of shit. they Both Sides-ed Star Wars.

RJ considers Kylo to be nowhere near as Darth Vader, as silly as that sounds, which is one reason this whole thing is on major rocky territory. even though in the first film we see him overlooking the elimination of 5 planets in comparison to the OT Death Star's 1. tbh I wonder if he has seen TFA. the Emperor swooping in at this point as the "real" main baddie would be like if Godzilla showed up in 1945 and the Ally powers worked with Hitler to defeat him. sounds like Hux will be a mole, and possibly even work with the Resistance, which is just great, a man who was last seen frothing at the mouth with religious ferver about cleansing the galaxy, as the giant Starkiller Base eliminated billions of lives, even this man can be a hero. ugh.
Yeah, the whole situation with Finn in TFA sets this up and then the scenario that plays out with Finn and Rose in TLJ just makes it worse.

Finn goes on a mission with the First Order and gets traumatized when one of his fellow Stormtroopers gets killed. He responds to this by defecting and then participating in the killing of many, many, more Stormtroopers AND he kind of seems to enjoy it.

Then in TLJ they have Rose attacking and detaining possible deserters, freeing some animals but not freeing enslaved children. She all but admits that she is knowingly fighting in a war that is funded by war mongers but it's OK because she loves this deserter she incapacitated at the start of the movie. She literally prevented Finn from fleeing a war that she doesn't agree with anyway then ultimately dragged him back onto the battlefield just to say "actually, fuck this war, I did it all for love" as a mini-deathstar gun blows up her allies.

I would wish that the writing is just so smart and actually I am too dumb to see the nuances but the reality seems to be that the First Order and the Resistance have essentially no back story and as a result it's not clear what the stakes are.

They don't do anything to, for example, introduce the possibility that the galaxy actually IS at peace but these 2 factions are fighting over some personal shit between Leia and Snoke involving Leia's son. So Luke is in hiding because he wants no part of it and Finn and Rose are looking to shut down the guys who are funding this pointless war.

Then it's not really a Star Wars movie though so they are trying to do BOTH a simple "good vs evil" story AND a "things are way more complex than they seem" and so the end result is confusing and seemingly hypocritical characters.

They made a massive blunder by having Kylo Ren deliberately and directly kill Han Solo. It just puts him too far from "redemption" but then they tried to pull it back a bit in TLJ (when he hesitates on killing Leia) only to go back in on "all evil". I think you can show that a character is conflicted without this serious whiplash.

The good guys have to be good. The writers have to write the story in ways that allows the good guys to be viewed in a positive light.

Vice Admiral Gender Studies is another quite good example where she isn't actually a complex character. She's supposed to be a "good guy" but if the writers define "good guy" as "acts like an asshole but it's empowering so that's fine" then it's not really appropriate for Star Wars, in my opinion. She is a bit of a cunt to Poe and so it's weird for the movie to go "haha Poe you fucking dunce she was right all along". Just so weird.

Even having Rey just beat people who oppose her with no difficulty kind of turns her into a bit of a heel character. She's not complicated at all. The movie is explicitly saying "she's good, she's good, she's good" but so many of her characteristics are classic "villain" tropes. She is born into power rather than having to earn it. She easily overpowers the plucky novice who can't quite harness his full talents yet. She uses her youthful advantage and aggression to take the old master off guard and beat him in an unfair fight.

It's like, WTF were they thinking?

Surely, TFA has Finn run away from the First Order and refuse to fight. He convinces Poe that this Jedi vs Sith/Leia vs Snoke thing is a total shambles that is needlessly killing people but in the end Finn wants to save Rey and Poe needs to stop Starkiller Base so they are dragged back in. Then in TLJ Rose feels like her sister died needlessly and so she joins Finn and Poe as they say "fuck this we will end this war ourselves".

Canto Bight could have easily been them causing serious damage to the weapons supply of the First Order and Resistance. Definitely better than "hurr durr we trashed the rich people's casino now the slaves will have to spend weeks fixing the mess and rounding up the animals we freed".

The stakes are too small and the characters are all over the place. I don't see how they will save it in Episode 9.

Have they done anything at all to suggest that there is a genuine chance of a new empire being built up?
 

Trogdor1123

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If they do let the FO win, it would certainly allow for more movies and shows to make. Lots more money to be made doing that.

I feel like the new star wars movies weren't built with a goal in mind story wise. That when they said it was star wars for the next generation they meant literally that. Not new, literally the same shows... Just not as good.

Maybe the third will pull them together.

As an aside, I have enjoyed all the new movies. Especially the spin offs. Last Jedi was the weakest (by a wide margin but I thought it wasn't the worst thing ever as some think) imo but I also think that empire is the worst of the original trilogy so my opinion isn't worth much haha.
 

#Phonepunk#

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If Rey defeats the Emperor and redeems a fallen Jedi and takes it upon herself to train the next generation it will be a 1:1 copy of the end of ROTJ. Only preceded by two films showing things never work out.

Honestly I wish they just remade the OT instead of this half assed shit
 
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Saruhashi

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They foisted FO on the audience in TFA with absolutely no details as to how we arrived at the state of the galaxy we are at post RotJ.
Yeah, I have no idea why they didn't at least try to give Snoke and the First Order some serious backstory in TLJ.
Fair enough if they just wanted TFA to hit the ground running and be a decently paced movie.
However, you need to go back and fill in those blanks.

Somehow the Empire was defeated and just 30 years later this new group have shown up and they don't just have a Death Star somehow they have a massive planet sized gun that drains entire suns and blows up multiple planets at once. No big deal.

I suppose the biggest problem the sequel trilogy faced is how neatly things are tied up in RotJ.
The biggest of big bads is gone and everyone has fulfilled their character arc.

You can't really "one up" that. Even the old expanded universe books etc were kind of just side content. It was never possible to outdo the originals.

I think Marvel might face the same issue now with carrying on a story after Endgame and Thanos. How do you one up that? ANOTHER 20+ movies to get to possibly a lesser pay off? A shorter build up? It's very difficult.

Maybe the best thing here was do just have a one off adventure that had the original cast and a few newbies and then move on.

A trilogy set long before Episode 1 would seem to make more sense since there is legitimately more potential story content there. Where did the Jedi and Sith come from etc. The alternative is to have a trilogy set a long time after the OT where Luke Skywalker is some kind of ancient legend.

They just want to live off the old stuff without really offering anything with substance.
Why does Rogue One only have a glimpse of Darth Vader?
Why not just make a Darth Vader movie about him hunting down the people who stole the plans?
Why does Solo only have a brief moment with Darth Maul? Why not just have a movie where he is the prominent villain?

It's like they want to use the old stuff as a crutch while also pushing less interesting new stuff.

Better to actually create new Star Wars content that doesn't actually have a very direct link to the old stuff.
Like the First Order could totally work as a rebel faction within the Republic long before the events of Episode One.
Kylo Ren could totally work as the disgruntled son of a famous Jedi. Etc Etc.
They MUST have constant references to the other, far better, movies for some reason.

How fucked up that they continually interrupt their new stories with basically "hey remember those awesome Star Wars movies that are WAY better than this? Here's a reference to them you fools". Like why am I paying money to be reminded of much better movies?

I would have thought the "Star Wars" name is enough to elevate a great movie but it's not enough to really save a bad movie.
Unless we are just talking about money then, sure, they did well.
 

Nymphae

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Why not just make a Darth Vader movie about him hunting down the people who stole the plans?
Why does Solo only have a brief moment with Darth Maul? Why not just have a movie where he is the prominent villain?
There are so many blatantly obvious ideas that they didn't go with it's just crazy. They could have drawn it out longer too, I don't know why they felt they had to fast track a trilogy and provide additional filler movies in-between, that just reeks of corporate greed. We need this thing generating new revenue every year damnit!

If they didn't bungle everything up so badly, maybe they could have gotten more revenue from toys or side stuff like games while people wait for more spaced out big flick releases, that utilize far better ideas like the ones you mentioned which existing fans could clearly seen to be interested in if they bothered to look into what people like about the franchise.

It's like they want to use the old stuff as a crutch while also pushing less interesting new stuff.
It's literally exactly what it is. I'm sure many involved would have preferred if it was more or at least as interesting as previous films, but they put a dolt in charge who was more interested in doing cafe press Force is Female shirt photo ops.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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Rian fucked it up. He did. These films live or die on their worldbuilding and the last movie was a negative in that department. Now they have to cram 2 episodes worh of story into one, and it is super apparent the last entry was just a giant waste of time.

There are even people talking about how Luke can give her his name or still help somehow and it’s like LUKE IS DEAD! She’s going to form a relationship with a dead person?

Maybe Luke plays a big role in this, in which case TLJ need not have happened at all. Longest film in the series was a giant waste of time
 
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NickFire

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Yeah, I have no idea why they didn't at least try to give Snoke and the First Order some serious backstory in TLJ.
Fair enough if they just wanted TFA to hit the ground running and be a decently paced movie.
However, you need to go back and fill in those blanks.

Somehow the Empire was defeated and just 30 years later this new group have shown up and they don't just have a Death Star somehow they have a massive planet sized gun that drains entire suns and blows up multiple planets at once. No big deal.

I suppose the biggest problem the sequel trilogy faced is how neatly things are tied up in RotJ.
The biggest of big bads is gone and everyone has fulfilled their character arc.

You can't really "one up" that. Even the old expanded universe books etc were kind of just side content. It was never possible to outdo the originals.

I think Marvel might face the same issue now with carrying on a story after Endgame and Thanos. How do you one up that? ANOTHER 20+ movies to get to possibly a lesser pay off? A shorter build up? It's very difficult.

Maybe the best thing here was do just have a one off adventure that had the original cast and a few newbies and then move on.

A trilogy set long before Episode 1 would seem to make more sense since there is legitimately more potential story content there. Where did the Jedi and Sith come from etc. The alternative is to have a trilogy set a long time after the OT where Luke Skywalker is some kind of ancient legend.

They just want to live off the old stuff without really offering anything with substance.
Why does Rogue One only have a glimpse of Darth Vader?
Why not just make a Darth Vader movie about him hunting down the people who stole the plans?
Why does Solo only have a brief moment with Darth Maul? Why not just have a movie where he is the prominent villain?

It's like they want to use the old stuff as a crutch while also pushing less interesting new stuff.

Better to actually create new Star Wars content that doesn't actually have a very direct link to the old stuff.
Like the First Order could totally work as a rebel faction within the Republic long before the events of Episode One.
Kylo Ren could totally work as the disgruntled son of a famous Jedi. Etc Etc.
They MUST have constant references to the other, far better, movies for some reason.

How fucked up that they continually interrupt their new stories with basically "hey remember those awesome Star Wars movies that are WAY better than this? Here's a reference to them you fools". Like why am I paying money to be reminded of much better movies?

I would have thought the "Star Wars" name is enough to elevate a great movie but it's not enough to really save a bad movie.
Unless we are just talking about money then, sure, they did well.
You bring up a great point regarding the rush into a new trilogy story. Episode 7 should absolutely have been more of a build up to a new big bad, with more explanation of the in between decades after Jedi. At a minimum a stand alone movie showing Ben solo’s transition to Kyle to explain it.

Someone else made a great point about too many cooks in the kitchen when writing these stories. Fully agree that Disney is botching this IP. Still hopeful that they turn things around in the next one just because I don’t want to give up on it forever. And excited for palpatine, not just for him coming back, but for a return to sith as a focus primarily.
 

*Nightwing

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so yeah, whew, it looks like Rey Palpatine is what we're getting. this is a franchise killer IMO. quite possibly the worst way to do this. so we have a good but still training Jedi and an evil fallen Sith and the Emperor is trying to manipulate them, literally a repeat of ROTJ. they are even going to the Death Star.

Lando gets ruined, I guess after ROTJ he had a life and met a woman and had a child, who was taken away by the bad guys, cos he never really won anything, and that victory was entirely hollow. R2 isn't mentioned here, he is just swapped out for BB-8. plus they will ruin the Emperor just as they ruined the other OT characters. now he is trying to get an incel laid. honestly, I can't believe this is actually going to be the story. it sounds so dumb. but again, that's why it seems so possible.
the only consistency is in this whole sequel trilogy has been how they have shit on every single one of the old characters and soured all their happy endings..... 1983: Luke has closure and has become a jedi knight on his own, Leia and Han have each other and a promising future together, Lando seems happy celebrating with everyone else and has become a general with prospects. 2019: Luke failed as a jedi leader and became such a bitter old man he had to go into hiding as super hermit, Leia and Han not only failed at their relationship but in child rearing as well, Lando had a daughter who was stolen and has nothing left to live for, and they all failed in their military action as the empire just turned into the first order and the actions of the entire prequel trilogy was nothing more than a speed bump or hiccup in the history of their tyranny. I honestly didn't think it was possible, but they ruined the OT by rewritting the endings of beloved characters not to mention failing to reunite them for even a single scene. Disney magic at its finest.
 

Nymphae

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I honestly didn't think it was possible, but they ruined the OT
I get your point, and in some sense the disaster of the ST has made me care less about the franchise overall (I gave away a number of Star Wars toys and things in the past few years, not out of spite or anger or anything, but Disney really dulled my love for this thing to the point where I was like why do I have all this shit, this franchise is nonsense.) But anyway, my point is, I know that at some point I'll go back to my OT blu rays, enjoy them for the fun flicks they are, and likely never watch the ST or related media ever again.
 
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Saruhashi

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2019: Luke failed as a jedi leader and became such a bitter old man he had to go into hiding as super hermit, Leia and Han not only failed at their relationship but in child rearing as well, Lando had a daughter who was stolen and has nothing left to live for, and they all failed in their military action as the empire just turned into the first order.
I'll stick the boot in on the sequels here again and put forward that, for every point you've made there, the story of HOW all that stuff happened is actually more interesting than what they gave us as a sequel.

So it's a double failure, in that sense. Showing the possibility of more interesting and intriguing stories while also delivering mediocrity.

It's like showing you a buffet of burgers and chips and pizzas and hot wings behind a thick glass window and then serving you up a bowl of grey, tasteless, gruel.

THEN calling you an asshole when you are like "WTF"!

If they absolutely HAD to go beyond RotJ and into sequel territory then the full story of how and why defeating the Empire wasn't enough is THE story to tell.
Instead it's just, yeah there is a First Order and a Resistance and Han and Leia's son is a Dark Side guy now. Here is Rey, she's great at everything.

OF COURSE that's going to be disappointing. You are bringing the old heroes back? Awesome! However, you are doing nothing interesting with them? Oh.
 

kunonabi

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While I have no intention of seeing the movie regardless I really hope the movie is nothing like these script leaks because it's going to be goddamn train wreck if so.
 

infinitys_7th

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You can always tell a bad movie when 90% of is searching for different Mcguffins at different places. That is not a story, just a series of fetch quests and setpieces.

This reminds me of Tales of Symphonia 2 - all the major characters from the original have these lame reappearances, we find out that all the dungeons had secret extra dungeons right behind the last room with new Mcguffins to find. It's just padding and fluff, but without a snarky anime panther to at least make you laugh occassionally.

Rose's bullshit speech at Canto Bight summed it up in the dumbest way possible: the "real villains" were the people profiting from the war. capitalism is the real evil! the evil people selling weapons to the First Order AND the Resistance. yet the Resistance, while buying from these evil people, I guess they are not complicit in this.
I wonder if they would apply that same logic to slavery?
 
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Ichabod

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Holy shit these leaks sound like hot motherfucking garbage 😂

Hux was a double agent the whole time?
Rey now has the ability to heal mortal lightsaber wounds for some reason?
Kylo permanently cucked after losing to Rey for the thousandth time?
 

#Phonepunk#

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Latest leak is indeed a dumpster. Han showing up to redeem his own murderer is the stupidest thing I have ever heard
 

#Phonepunk#

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man so much of this is garbage:

- Lando's daughter apparently has the exact same backstory as Finn. Once again Finn gets the shaft while a new character is introduced to pick up a storyline he should have. Quite a coincidence she lives on Endor, who knew?

- C-3PO dying is "a super emotional part" yet Chewie soon after apparently dies and it's just a thing that happens, then is revealed to not be the case. Why would I want to see a movie where the director is faking killing Chewbacca? He was introduced as a dangerous badass who ripped arms out of the sockets of people after losing at chess then demoted to sidekick's sidekick. Last movie he was not even allowed to speak directly to Luke, his eating habits shamed by porgs. Now he's just a fucking chess piece who gets accidentally faked killed by the main hero to pull a "gotcha!" fuuuuuq

- Han Solo forgiving his son for murdering him in cold blood, lol, this is really Kylo's ultimate turn from the Dark Side? Did any of Hannibal's victims ever show up as ghosts to forgive him? The ghost of a dead person forgiving his murderer? Beyond idiotic. By the way, Leia was a force user, who trained with Luke, and trained Rey also, but she just dies offscreen and never says a word to her son. Han shows up instead of her???

- Macguffin after macguffin. TWO "way finders". Hah this movie sounds like a game of Skyrim, just follow the compass. Might as well just leave the script laying around sets. "Where do we go next? Let's consult the script."

- Rey Palpatine still makes no sense. Her parents were nobodies but her grandparent was the Emperor of the galaxy. Wouldn't that make her parents heirs? But she has Palp's dark powers... so blood DOES determine if you are evil after all! Or it doesn't? Whatever suits the particular scene, I guess. Except she can heal people now, a totally new thing, guess darksiders can do that too. Rey can do it all she is Jedi X Sith X Jesus.

ugh. just all of it, ugh.
 
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cryptoadam

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Is Kylo been the biggest bitch baddie of all time? Was this KK's plan all along to make Kylo such a simp as a means to fight the Patriarchy?

The guy is a total loser bitch in TFA. He is just a geek that is cosplaying as Vader and everyone from Snoke to the FO treat him like some D&D playing basement dwelling neck beard. And of course Rey beats him even though she has never used a saber before, while Kylo was trained by Luke and the FO.

In TLJ he acts like a love sick puppy that has been friend zoned. Snoke continues to talk down to him and really just wants Rey. And Rey beats him once again in a fight! And finally he gets fooled by ghost Luke like the idiot he is.

And now if we go by spoilers Rey beats him for a 3rd time nearly killing him except for showing him mercy with her magic healing powers (yup Jedi can now heal people alright then, would of come in handy for Luke when he was trying to save his dad). He basically is still trying to get Rey to bang him, but she is having none of his male feminist pussy ass.

His greatest moment seems to be killing is 150 year old dad. Wow you killed an old man who was trying to talk some sense in you, what a bad guy.

Imagine if in ANH Luke told Obi Wan he gots this and he kicks Vaders ass in their first fight. Then in ESB he cuts of Vaders hand and tells him I am your SON bitch. And then in ROTJ Luke uses his Jedi power of force farts and blows the Emperor out of the throne room with the power of his ass, before he kicked the shit out of Vader for a 3rd time. And then at the end of the movie Leia uses the power of Force femininity to bring back Vader and turn him into a good guy again.
 

#Phonepunk#

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Kylo: "I killed you!"
Han: "I know."

* heartwarming music swells *



Edit: stole this joke from the force.net forums
 
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MisterHero

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It makes more sense when you realize that Ben is a poorly-written caricature so they can shove aside his entire family and make their Original Characters seem reasonable and hamfist their allegories for people who don't think like them.

Despite all that though, he's still the sequels' most interesting character. He's an angry young adult with all those powers enabling him to do whatever he wants and making all the wrong choices. He doesn't make a willing choice to grow in the Dark Side, he has to push himself to do it. Killing didn't kill Han to kill Han, he was trying to kill his own spirit. He displays suicidal tendencies but TFA and TLJ choose to mock his behavior through comedic timing than create empathy in the audience.

In TLJ Luke scans his mind and realizes that Ben might be a psychopath (emphasis on 'might' because we don't know how much Snoke/the Emperor had to do with it). Instead of one of fantasy's greatest characters helping his nephew with a problem our real world isn't equipped to face, he thinks about killing him.

His story is tragic and no one writing these stories cares.
 

#Phonepunk#

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Killing didn't kill Han to kill Han, he was trying to kill his own spirit.
i see what you are saying, and that the ST has built a new sort of narrative. the thing is, i don't buy it at all cos they did a terrible job. i don't buy "pull to the light", i don't buy the idea that the force created the dark Kylo Ren and the light Rey to answer him. at this point i wouldn't put it past them to eventually say Kylo Ren was the light all along, tricked ya! the force doesn't create people, spawning them in like Battlefront 2. people are born, they are still humans, and they have this innate mystical power, which they can use for good or evil. it is what you do that matters. also this is an entire 180 from TLJ's democratizing of the force. baffling retcons here.

OT had the Sith as simply fallen Jedi. no children were being born as demons, fully evil. Anakin grew up as a regular kid, that is the point of making TPM. he needs his innocent adventure. we all do. it is the human story. yes the Jedi were flawed, but again, these are humans. this new ST force stuff, it is as inhuman as the company producing it. the problem is, they did a very poor job setting up the mythos, and entirely misunderstood the force. they lampshade this, over and over, Han Solo and Luke Skywalker themselves call it out. it is dumb to be concerned with it, the realm of nerds, yet it is something they should have done as filmmakers. they are just combining old images & concepts, without concern for their contexts, and the problems are arising from them not thinking things through (cos thinking is dumb and nerdy). so they joke about it, and things are written to be very broad, so that when translated to any language and market around the world, it still makes sense." dumbed down for the largest audience. Lucas was very particular about his world design, the ST is as vague as can be, by design.

Kylo - what is "his own spirit"? is he at 77% Dark and we need him S rank 92% at least for him to be Dark Side class? what is this "pull to the light"? is he already a Sith? no? was Snoke, his trainer, a Sith? then why is he asking this guy who is not a Sith if he is Dark Side or not? it is told to us over and over that they are not the Sith. so it begs the question, why would Kylo follow a guy that is not a Sith? ah, Snoke doesn't matter, he's a nothing character, i keep forgetting that.:messenger_tears_of_joy:

what about Kylo's turn with Luke? we know Luke did the horrible thing of turning on his lightsaber but then Kylo attacked his master and went on to kill the other Jedi students and torch the school before going on to fight w the bad guys. um, isn't he already a Sith?

i would say so, but the filmmakers are not convinced. what are we waiting for? how many people need to die before he becomes a Sith? it doesn't make any sense. "pull of the light"? this guy decided not to kill his mom but let his friends give it a try the day after he killed his father. the same day he also watched trillions of people die through the coordinated actions of him and his friends. yes somehow, still feeling a little pull to the light? lol ok.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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but about these new leaks. who knew this guy was going to redeem himself? space nazis do the craziest things!

 

MisterHero

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i see what you are saying, and that the ST has built a new sort of narrative. the thing is, i don't buy it at all cos they did a terrible job. i don't buy "pull to the light", i don't buy the idea that the force created the dark Kylo Ren and the light Rey to answer him. at this point i wouldn't put it past them to eventually say Kylo Ren was the light all along, tricked ya! the force doesn't create people, spawning them in like Battlefront 2. people are born, they are still humans, and they have this innate mystical power, which they can use for good or evil. it is what you do that matters. also this is an entire 180 from TLJ's democratizing of the force. baffling retcons here.

OT had the Sith as simply fallen Jedi. no children were being born as demons, fully evil. Anakin grew up as a regular kid, that is the point of making TPM. he needs his innocent adventure. we all do. it is the human story. yes the Jedi were flawed, but again, these are humans. this new ST force stuff, it is as inhuman as the company producing it. the problem is, they did a very poor job setting up the mythos, and entirely misunderstood the force. they lampshade this, over and over, Han Solo and Luke Skywalker themselves call it out, "The writers have no idea what to do, so they will make a joke about that, one that will play out when translated to any language and market around the world." Lucas was very particular about his world design, the ST is as vague as can be, by design.

what is "his own spirit"? what is this "pull to the light"? is he already a Sith? no? was Snoke, his trainer, a Sith? then why is he asking this guy who is not a Sith if he is Dark Side or not? it is told to us over and over that they are not the Sith. so it begs the question, why would Kylo follow a guy that is not a Sith? ah, Snoke doesn't matter, he's a nothing character, i keep forgetting that.:messenger_tears_of_joy:

what about Kylo's turn with Luke? we know Luke did the horrible thing of turning on his lightsaber but then Kylo attacked his master and went on to kill the other Jedi students and torch the school before going on to fight w the bad guys. um, isn't he already a Sith?

i would say so, but the filmmakers are not convinced. what are we waiting for? is he at 77% Dark and we need him S rank 92% at least for him to be Dark Side class? how many people need to die before he becomes a Sith? it doesn't make any sense. "pull of the light"? this guy decided not to kill his mom but let his friends give it a try the day after he killed his father. the same day he also watched trillions of people die through the coordinated actions of him and his friends. yes somehow, still feeling a little pull to the light? lol ok.
You are absolutely right. I'm still mainly interested in Ben as the [emerging new?] powerful manchild archetype even if the writers completely fucked it up.

The sequels have created situations so implausible that I have to come up with head canon ignoring the dumbest parts.

Kylo Ren killed trillions, and yet the entire Skywalker family needs to be redeemed to have any sort of dignity when it's over. It was wrong from the beginning.
 

Neff

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Sounds like Disney got Tetsuya Nomura to write it.

Rian Johnson is at it again saying TLJ and Empire have similar criticism!
He's such a little turd. He can keep making that comparison until he's blue in the face to save his terrible movie, but the fact is Empire received a literal opposite reception of The Last Jedi- critics were split/lukewarm on it, but ticket buyers absolutely loved it. Everybody in my street went to see it. Old folks went to see it. Merchandise was everywhere, and it sold. My local toy store converted an entire floor to sell Empire toys. The AT-AT Walker was the christmas gift for boys that year. Word of mouth for the movie was incredible. It didn't 'become' an iconic movie over time. It already was one from day one.

So fuck you and your egotistical, revisionist shit, Johnson.
 

#Phonepunk#

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retconning Leia into a Jedi is gonna cause major plot holes. like everything in this series it is going to be a "have your cake and eat it too" moment. Leia will have a lighstaber and know the force and even train Rey, but we will be told "Not a Jedi, don't be silly" and the reason we will get will be "Leia never completed her training".

so it begs the question, why not? why isn't Leia a Jedi? tbh this was a big problem for me with TFA, that she was just doing the same old thing, when in ROTJ it hinted at maybe a better life for her. funny to see them walk it back for the finale. but pretty lame, as she could have served a far better role in the first two entries of this series.

also wasn't the last film all about how force can be wielded by anyone, regardless of training? new canon shows you don't need any training to use the force at all, so why does it suddenly apply to Leia? ah, "she never completed her training", of being trained by the guy who apparently didn't train a single successful Jedi? Kylo and Rey both are more powerful than anyone, and neither has "completed their training". Rey is even set to become the head of the future Jedi, without completing any training? she's going to learn from someone else who didn't complete their training too? this is no different from Leia, who also has raw power and never completed her training. it doesn't make sense.

ugh the godawful writing of this whole thing. every time you look at it again, it gets worse.
 
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dhatt1

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I will never understand the fact that they made sequels to the OT while all the main cast were still alive, and then didnt give them any scenes together.
You think Disney wanting all the mega $$$ would force a scene like this to happen. First time I'm genuinely annoyed that a mega corp didn't follow their intuition on this one 🤔
 
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#Phonepunk#

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"money shot" of the film is Rey reflecting Palp lightning with Anakin and Leia's lighstabers (yes Leia's lightsaber that we've ever known about until this film). also he shoots lightning up into space stopping an entire fleet before that. the whole thing sounds utterly stupid.

also confirmation that Rey and Kylo will be what rejuvenates the Emperor. which just makes our heroes entirely worthless. lol so this film is them running around, not knowing what to do just following macguffins until they accidentally bring the Emperor back? then just as quickly killing him? tbh im kind of wondering how long he is in the movie before he dies again.

"Hahaha I'm back! Finally after 30 years my long term plan to return has worked!"

* 5 mins later * "Nooo! I'm dying, and for real this time, we promise!"
 
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-Arcadia-

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"money shot" of the film is Rey reflecting Palp lightning with Anakin and Leia's lighstabers (yes Leia's lightsaber that we've ever known about until this film). also he shoots lightning up into space stopping an entire fleet before that. the whole thing sounds utterly stupid.

also confirmation that Rey and Kylo will be what rejuvenates the Emperor. which just makes our heroes entirely worthless. lol so this film is them running around, not knowing what to do just following macguffins until they accidentally bring the Emperor back? then just as quickly killing him? tbh im kind of wondering how long he is in the movie before he dies again.

"Hahaha I'm back! Finally after 30 years my long term plan to return has worked!"

* 5 mins later * "Nooo! I'm dying, and for real this time, we promise!"
I feel like, for better or worse, we're going to get a lot of entertainment with this film.