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Spoilers Star Wars IX Open Spoilers, Leaks, Trash Talk, etc. (***Warning SPOILERS***)

Malakhov

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Went to see it for a second time with the kids yesterday and I enjoyed it even more than the first time.

One thing that surprised me was that the theater was full and there was a ton of people in line when we got out of the room for the next showing. This has been out for more than a week now which is weird.

Maybe the busy schedule for the holidays or the positive word of mouth I don't know. The watchers on rotten are very positive, the people on Facebook in the movie ads and the star wars groups I'm in are also positive unlike when TLJ came out. Aw well, good for them
 
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Saruhashi

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You don't know what a deus ex machina is.
Deus ex machina English ‘god from the machine’) is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem in a story is suddenly and abruptly resolved by an unexpected and seemingly unlikely occurrence, typically so much as to seem contrived. Its function can be to resolve an otherwise irresolvable plot situation, to surprise the audience, to bring the tale to a happy ending, or act as a comedic device.

So Finn and Rose go to Canto Bight seeking out a guy with a red rose who can help them disable the First Order's lightspeed tracker. Yes?
However, they get caught for parking illegally and thrown in jail. It's OK though because they just happened to get thrown into a cell with some guy (unexpected and unlikely) who can do everything they need (resolve an otherwise irresolvable plot situation) and he gets them out of prison, off the planet and then onto the First Order ship.

I hope you won't make me go through it for all the other points made by #Phonepunk# #Phonepunk# and will just accept that they do indeed know what a deus ex machina is.

Another smug TLJ defender who thinks they know it all about movies when they actually know very little indeed. Unsurprising, really.

Holdo pulls this lore breaking, entire fictional universe changing, maneuver out of nowhere that just happens to unexpectedly solve a previously unsolvable problem and on top of that it just happens to destroy and/or disable an entire fleet of ships and not kill or harm any of the protagonists but does knock down or knock out the antagonists.

It's not a deus ex machina though guys. Our resident, super smart, movie expert Explosive Zombie Explosive Zombie has spoken.
 

Shodan09

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Deus ex machina English ‘god from the machine’) is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem in a story is suddenly and abruptly resolved by an unexpected and seemingly unlikely occurrence, typically so much as to seem contrived. Its function can be to resolve an otherwise irresolvable plot situation, to surprise the audience, to bring the tale to a happy ending, or act as a comedic device.

So Finn and Rose go to Canto Bight seeking out a guy with a red rose who can help them disable the First Order's lightspeed tracker. Yes?
However, they get caught for parking illegally and thrown in jail. It's OK though because they just happened to get thrown into a cell with some guy (unexpected and unlikely) who can do everything they need (resolve an otherwise irresolvable plot situation) and he gets them out of prison, off the planet and then onto the First Order ship.

I hope you won't make me go through it for all the other points made by #Phonepunk# #Phonepunk# and will just accept that they do indeed know what a deus ex machina is.

Another smug TLJ defender who thinks they know it all about movies when they actually know very little indeed. Unsurprising, really.

Holdo pulls this lore breaking, entire fictional universe changing, maneuver out of nowhere that just happens to unexpectedly solve a previously unsolvable problem and on top of that it just happens to destroy and/or disable an entire fleet of ships and not kill or harm any of the protagonists but does knock down or knock out the antagonists.

It's not a deus ex machina though guys. Our resident, super smart, movie expert Explosive Zombie Explosive Zombie has spoken.
I was about to say! The situations the poster mentioned were perfect examples of Deus ex machina lol.

That's before we even get started on the franchise destroying Holdo manoeuvre.
 
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Shodan09

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Went to see it for a second time with the kids yesterday and I enjoyed it even more than the first time.

One thing that surprised me was that the theater was full and there was a ton of people in line when we got out of the room for the next showing. This has been out for more than a week now which is weird.

Maybe the busy schedule for the holidays or the positive word of mouth I don't know. The watchers on rotten are very positive, the people on Facebook in the movie ads and the star wars groups I'm in are also positive unlike when TLJ came out. Aw well, good for them
I went to see it again with a couple of friends and really enjoyed it. I didn't even mind the pacing, it works better second time round once you know what's coming.

Everyone enjoyed it and two of the people I was with felt it 'redeemed' the series. For its faults, I do think it captures the Star Wars 'feel' just like force awakens. I don't want to get on my high horse about it but it does seem that a lot of people with complaints have missed/misunderstood certain plot elements. It's not entirely their fault thanks to the pacing, and it's not perfect.

Given it's an end to a saga, at least as far as marketing is concerned, it's unusual how stand alone it all feels. It basically sets up a premise in the first five minutes then the rest of the film is the sequel to that idea. I don't think the damage Rian Johnson inflicted on the franchise should ever be understated.
 
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Deus ex machina English ‘god from the machine’) is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem in a story is suddenly and abruptly resolved by an unexpected and seemingly unlikely occurrence, typically so much as to seem contrived. Its function can be to resolve an otherwise irresolvable plot situation, to surprise the audience, to bring the tale to a happy ending, or act as a comedic device.

So Finn and Rose go to Canto Bight seeking out a guy with a red rose who can help them disable the First Order's lightspeed tracker. Yes?
However, they get caught for parking illegally and thrown in jail. It's OK though because they just happened to get thrown into a cell with some guy (unexpected and unlikely) who can do everything they need (resolve an otherwise irresolvable plot situation) and he gets them out of prison, off the planet and then onto the First Order ship.

I hope you won't make me go through it for all the other points made by #Phonepunk# #Phonepunk# and will just accept that they do indeed know what a deus ex machina is.

Another smug TLJ defender who thinks they know it all about movies when they actually know very little indeed. Unsurprising, really.

Holdo pulls this lore breaking, entire fictional universe changing, maneuver out of nowhere that just happens to unexpectedly solve a previously unsolvable problem and on top of that it just happens to destroy and/or disable an entire fleet of ships and not kill or harm any of the protagonists but does knock down or knock out the antagonists.

It's not a deus ex machina though guys. Our resident, super smart, movie expert Explosive Zombie Explosive Zombie has spoken.
By this sort of logic pretty much any coincidence that ever occurs in film is a deus ex machina. The thing is DJ doesn't just solve their problems, he also creates new ones by informing the First Order of their planned escape. Usually in any film someone being put in prison requires the aide of someone else, was Luke and Han's rescue of Leia a deus ex machina?

"lore breaking" nope, your silly Wookiepedia backs up what she did, the whole reason they even have hyper space routes to navigate is because they need to avoid things like mass shadows created by large objects such as the one created by Snoke's ship. How does it change the entire fictional universe? It didn't kill any major character, just red shirts so what does it matter that it didn't randomly kill Finn? It did kill her!

"Deus ex machina, (Latin: “god from the machine”) a person or thing that appears or is introduced into a situation suddenly and unexpectedly and provides an artificial or contrived solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty. " - Weird how your definition supports your view on it better, since you know... Holdo and light speed travel weren't introduced in that scene were they? If DJ counts though then any characters ever having a chance meeting with someone who can aide them becomes deus ex machina, the thing with deus ex machina is it's almost always at the end of a story, "1: a god introduced by means of a crane (see CRANE entry 1 sense 3a) in ancient Greek and Roman drama to decide the final outcome" - so the problem with both your examples you stick with is they don't solve the drama of the movie and in some ways exacerbate it, had DJ not entered the film and let's assume the film just leaves Finn and Rose to rot in jail then the plan to escape to Crait would have never been discovered by the First Order and without the First Order firing on the fleeing ships Holdo wouldn't feel the need to suicide bomb them... both examples gone, the Resistance preserved and they can simply save Finn at the start of the next movie, like Return of the Jedi!

Common usage of the term is to refer to a writer writing themselves into a corner and lazily finding a solution but DJ wasn't added to the film out of laziness, his role is thematic moreso than to advance plot with his tempting of Finn with grey morality. Holdo's light speed ram is also there to contrast her heroic sacrifice to save lives against sacrifices that saved no one like Poe's in the beginning or Finn's attempted one at the end. They have a thematic place in the story and weren't simply added to solve or complicate the plot.
 
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Gp1

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THIS IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE LOL

Star Wars: Palpatine's Return Was Apparently Kathleen Kennedy's Idea
Kennedy had a "clear plan" for the ending, says Rise of Skywalker writer.



Terrio
"Kathy had this overall vision that we had to be telling the same story for nine episodes. "


Basically Terrio washed his hands on all this shit
 
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Shodan09

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"Although from the sleight of hand of Episode VII and Episode VIII, you wouldn’t necessarily know immediately that we were telling the same story. "

Lmao
 
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Saruhashi

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I don't know what the hell this means.

Weird how your definition supports your view on it better,
I Googled and then copied and pasted a definition.
It's not MY definition.

My understanding here is that #Phonepunk# #Phonepunk# does indeed understand what a "deus ex machina" is in movie terms and provided pretty good examples.

Sorry, but you are fighting a losing battle here.
There are so many people who think that TLJ is not a good movie. Some that think it's just outright shite.
Your only rebuttal seems to be that if you can act smarter somehow then you can invalidate TLJ criticisms through proving that the people making the criticisms are just dumb.

Doesn't change the fact that some people think the movie is shit and are able to articulate why the think it's shite remarkably well.
You aren't going to win this.

You can argue it's a good movie. Crack on. We'll never agree.
I just find the "you just don't understand movies" or "your criticisms are dumb" defense of the movie to be a bit of a shitty way to approach the argument.
I suppose it's better than "only Russian bots hated the movie" so I will give you some credit there.

It's fitting that TLJ defenders and the actual TLJ movie share this "not as smart as they think they are" characteristic.

It will always be funny to me that people are willing to argue that the Star Wars where Luke drinks warm titty milk from an alien with 4 boobs, as Rey watches, on is some kind of high art. :)
 
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I went to see it again with a couple of friends and really enjoyed it. I didn't even mind the pacing, it works better second time round once you know what's coming.

Everyone enjoyed it and two of the people I was with felt it 'redeemed' the series. For its faults, I do think it captures the Star Wars 'feel' just like force awakens. I don't want to get on my high horse about it but it does seem that a lot of people with complaints have missed/misunderstood certain plot elements. It's not entirely their fault thanks to the pacing, and it's not perfect.

Given it's an end to a saga, at least as far as marketing is concerned, it's unusual how stand alone it all feels. It basically sets up a premise in the first five minutes then the rest of the film is the sequel to that idea. I don't think the damage Rian Johnson inflicted on the franchise should ever be understated.
Yeah, I enjoyed it more... I don't know, critically(?) the 2nd time, though I enjoyed it more emotionally the first time I guess.

I really am happy it's just done though, at least for a while. Not sure the TLJ (for & against) posts will ever end though.
 
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Malakhov

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Yeah, I enjoyed it more... I don't know, critically(?) the 2nd time, though I enjoyed it more emotionally the first time I guess.

I really am happy it's just done though, at least for a while. Not sure the TLJ (for & against) posts will ever end though.
They will, people will like the movies after some time.

People used to hate the prequels and all of a sudden they're not supposed to be horrible anymore 😂
 
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I don't know what the hell this means.



I Googled and then copied and pasted a definition.
It's not MY definition.

My understanding here is that #Phonepunk# #Phonepunk# does indeed understand what a "deus ex machina" is in movie terms and provided pretty good examples.

Sorry, but you are fighting a losing battle here.
There are so many people who think that TLJ is not a good movie. Some that think it's just outright shite.
Your only rebuttal seems to be that if you can act smarter somehow then you can invalidate TLJ criticisms through proving that the people making the criticisms are just dumb.

Doesn't change the fact that some people think the movie is shit and are able to articulate why the think it's shite remarkably well.
You aren't going to win this.

You can argue it's a good movie. Crack on. We'll never agree.
I just find the "you just don't understand movies" or "your criticisms are dumb" defense of the movie to be a bit of a shitty way to approach the argument.
I suppose it's better than "only Russian bots hated the movie" so I will give you some credit there.

It's fitting that TLJ defenders and the actual TLJ movie share this "not as smart as they think they are" characteristic.

It will always be funny to me that people are willing to argue that the Star Wars where Luke drinks warm titty milk from an alien with 4 boobs, as Rey watches, on is some kind of high art. :)
Making another mistake here, assuming having a deus ex machina is a knock against something when it's actually been argued by legitimate thought leaders whether or not it actually enhances a piece of art. But then I'm talking to people who spend more time arguing what fits Star Wars lore than what makes for good art. It'll always be funny to me what people think disqualifies something from being high art, too, especially people who barely comprehend the correct usage of basic terminology.
 

#Phonepunk#

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Look I’m not here to debate the definition of a word. Whatever you want to call it, it was our heroes getting saved entirely of their own actions. Their lives are in danger and repeatedly some third party or coincidental event swoops in and saves the day. DJ brakes them out of jail like 1 minuets after we find out they are imprisoned, then he saves them when they are on a cliff on the horses with space police after them. True he betrays them 5 mins after saving them twice, but then Holdo lightpseeding literally just knocks out all the bad guys while saving the good guys. Then they all escape offscreen in two different action sequences we may have actually witnessed in a better movie.

This is not interesting storytelling. Think about the ANH Death Star, how they have to do multiple things to sneak in, hide under the floor, knock out the guards and take their uniforms. The escaping is a similar thrilling sequence, one of the most treasured in fact, including the swing, the trash compactor, Obi Wan/Vader duel. All this physical work to get in and out of this space station makes it feel real. The new stuff is as real as a theme park ride. Not that theme parks can’t be fun, but it’s not quite the same. It betrays a lazy writer who has things they want to hit but doesn’t really want to put in the work to connect them, so they fall back on distracting flashy imagery. It’s the storytelling equivalent of jingling keys in front of a baby.
 
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Saruhashi

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Making another mistake here, assuming having a deus ex machina is a knock against something when it's actually been argued by legitimate thought leaders whether or not it actually enhances a piece of art. But then I'm talking to people who spend more time arguing what fits Star Wars lore than what makes for good art. It'll always be funny to me what people think disqualifies something from being high art, too, especially people who barely comprehend the correct usage of basic terminology.
Hang on.

So before you didn't agree that the examples were deus ex machina?
Now you agree that they are but it doesn't actually matter cos that's not necessarily a bad thing?

So is it just one mistake being made here or is it two?

Sorry, you know how hard it is for thickos like me to even count never mind comprehend the correct usage of basic terminology.
I'm not a "legitimate thought leader" after all.
 
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Saruhashi

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Look I’m not here to debate the definition of a word. Whatever you want to call it, it was our heroes getting saved entirely of their own actions. Their lives are in danger and repeatedly some third party or coincidental event swoops in and saves the day. Holdo lightpseeding literally knocks out the bad guys while saving the good guys. Then they all escape offscreen in two different action sequences we may have actually witnessed in a better movie.

This is not interesting storytelling. Think about the ANH Death Star, how they have to do multiple things to sneak in, hide under the floor, knock out the guards and take their clothes. The escaping is a similar thrilling sequence, one of the most treasured in fact, including the swing, the trash compactor, Obi Wan. Vader duel. All this physical work to get in and out of this space station makes it feel real. The new stuff is as real as a theme park ride. Not that theme parks can’t be fun, but it’s not quite the same.
Now, now, didn't you hear that legitimate thought leaders are currently arguing that such things might even enhance a piece of art?
Yeah. Yeah they are. Fuckin legitimate thought leaders here to tell you what Star Wars to like and what Star Wars to not like so much.

Educated minds agree that when the basic usage of correct terminology is comprehended then any old shite can be defended.
(It's like poetry...)
 
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Dazrael

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I give this film a pass with some of its silly decisions. When told that the new Sith Star Destroyers have planet busting weapons Poe dryly replies “Of course they have”. Also when Kylo Ren magics the lightsaber out of thin air he comically shrugs to the Knight of Ren. These moments were totally self aware, JJ knew he was writing bollocks so he made these little digs at his own script. Even the digs at the Holdo Manoeuvre and Luke catching the lightsaber were effectively breaking the 4th wall.

It was better than I thought it would be but it still had glaring issues. It’s fan fiction through and through but entertaining fan fiction. Only the OT exists in this dojo but as a period of time in the cinema it was fun.

Oh and if it adds to the mass debate TLJ was shite.
 
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Look I’m not here to debate the definition of a word. Whatever you want to call it, it was our heroes getting saved entirely of their own actions. Their lives are in danger and repeatedly some third party or coincidental event swoops in and saves the day. DJ brakes them out of jail like 1 minuets after we find out they are imprisoned, then he saves them when they are on a cliff on the horses with space police after them. True he betrays them 5 mins after saving them twice, but then Holdo lightpseeding literally just knocks out all the bad guys while saving the good guys. Then they all escape offscreen in two different action sequences we may have actually witnessed in a better movie.

This is not interesting storytelling. Think about the ANH Death Star, how they have to do multiple things to sneak in, hide under the floor, knock out the guards and take their uniforms. The escaping is a similar thrilling sequence, one of the most treasured in fact, including the swing, the trash compactor, Obi Wan/Vader duel. All this physical work to get in and out of this space station makes it feel real. The new stuff is as real as a theme park ride. Not that theme parks can’t be fun, but it’s not quite the same. It betrays a lazy writer who has things they want to hit but doesn’t really want to put in the work to connect them, so they fall back on distracting flashy imagery. It’s the storytelling equivalent of jingling keys in front of a baby.
Because having a trash compactor on the Death Star made perfect sense, btw. He also just happened to have some grapple thing to swing with, never used again! The thing is the hard work in TLJ was character growth related, not how many plot points are involved in escaping a place.

Hang on.

So before you didn't agree that the examples were deus ex machina?
Now you agree that they are but it doesn't actually matter cos that's not necessarily a bad thing?

So is it just one mistake being made here or is it two?

Sorry, you know how hard it is for thickos like me to even count never mind comprehend the correct usage of basic terminology.
I'm not a "legitimate thought leader" after all.
I didn't change my stance on them being deus ex machina, but arguing something being a deus ex machina makes it bad is a pretty faulty argument.


Now, now, didn't you hear that legitimate thought leaders are currently arguing that such things might even enhance a piece of art?
Yeah. Yeah they are. Fuckin legitimate thought leaders here to tell you what Star Wars to like and what Star Wars to not like so much.

Educated minds agree that when the basic usage of correct terminology is comprehended then any old shite can be defended.
(It's like poetry...)
Not currently, currently we've got Star Wars fans who learned film critique from your movie sucks, mauler and cinema sins thinking they can objectively prove a film is bad. I was speaking of now dead thought leaders who argued the validity of using a deus ex machina in literature. You might be taking this too hard, this isn't about you not being allowed to like/dislike something, but better arguments make for better discussion but I'm not sure most TLJ haters are interested in discussion.
 

kunonabi

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Because having a trash compactor on the Death Star made perfect sense, btw. He also just happened to have some grapple thing to swing with, never used again! The thing is the hard work in TLJ was character growth related, not how many plot points are involved in escaping a place.



I didn't change my stance on them being deus ex machina, but arguing something being a deus ex machina makes it bad is a pretty faulty argument.




Not currently, currently we've got Star Wars fans who learned film critique from your movie sucks, mauler and cinema sins thinking they can objectively prove a film is bad. I was speaking of now dead thought leaders who argued the validity of using a deus ex machina in literature. You might be taking this too hard, this isn't about you not being allowed to like/dislike something, but better arguments make for better discussion but I'm not sure most TLJ haters are interested in discussion.
The grappling hook was stormtrooper gear from the belt he was still wearing.
 
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Shodan09

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The really funny thing here is that some people think the characters grow in TLJ.

Can we argue that Luke grew at all when they shot his character in the knees at the starting blocks? He ends up the same place he was at the end of Rotj, it's only perceived as growth within this film because Rian got his character wrong from the beginning.

Poe learns fuck all, and Leia even admits following him is the right thing to do at the end.

I still don't understand what Holdo actually is, other than a way to artificially tell Poe he's wrong.

Finn learns less than fuck all - and let's not forget he was actually technically still flying away from the resistance when his sacrifice was completely neutered.

Rose is a non-entity,

DJ is just a plot device as already discussed.

Kylo came dangerously close to having some character development then just went full retard evil instead.
 

sol_bad

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The really funny thing here is that some people think the characters grow in TLJ.

Can we argue that Luke grew at all when they shot his character in the knees at the starting blocks? He ends up the same place he was at the end of Rotj, it's only perceived as growth within this film because Rian got his character wrong from the beginning.

Poe learns fuck all, and Leia even admits following him is the right thing to do at the end.

I still don't understand what Holdo actually is, other than a way to artificially tell Poe he's wrong.

Finn learns less than fuck all - and let's not forget he was actually technically still flying away from the resistance when his sacrifice was completely neutered.

Rose is a non-entity,

DJ is just a plot device as already discussed.

Kylo came dangerously close to having some character development then just went full retard evil instead.
I won't comment on Luke as our thoughts on him are just completely different. He isn't a main character but he and Rey learn and grow through each other.

As for Poe, he is a"fly boy" and is too eager to always jump into action and fight. Leia doesn't like this attitude of his as she sees more potential in him. At the end, Poe doesn't want to jump into action and instead wants to retreat and help save lives. Of course Leia wants to follow him, his thinking has fundamentally changed.

As for Finn, his mission to Canto Bight and DJ is what changed him. He'd been a First Order "troop" all his life but hadn't actually seen any action until the start of Force Awakens. He didn't understand or comprehend what the First Order was until he saw the slaughter of that village. Even at that point he didn't fully understand what the First Order were.
He only cared about himself, Rey and running away, that carried through to the start of TLJ.
It wasn't until he learnt about Rose's past, the people on Canto Bight profiteering from the war and how twisted people become from the war (DJ) that he actively decided to stand up and start fighting rather than running away.

You can say that there is no character growth in TLJ if you want but it's definitely more involved than say Han in the OT. He just wants to get paid for helping Obi-Wan and Luke and leave, then returns at the last moment because ... reasons?
 

dorkimoe

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Was listening to a pod and they were talking about ROS and they brought up a good point. Think how many studio notes were probably sent on to JJ during this film. Because they are constantly trying to appease every square inch of the internet. Its so big they arent allowed to just make the movie they want. That being said i really liked it, and good for their being no rose tico, she was USELESS in TLJ and she didnt need a bigger roll in this one.
 

#Phonepunk#

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Because they are constantly trying to appease every square inch of the internet. Its so big they arent allowed to just make the movie they want.
While maybe partially true I think this is also just passing the buck. “The internet” did not write this movie, they did. They made the movie they wanted to make. People need to quit blaming fans for what these companies are doing, it’s pathetic.

Worst thing about ROS cycle has been the need to blame fans or the internet for everything. The internet didn’t write this movie. Anyone thinking message board theories influenced this movie any more than the whims of the money men is drinking their own toxic fan koolaid.
 
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infinitys_7th

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The really funny thing here is that some people think the characters grow in TLJ.

Can we argue that Luke grew at all when they shot his character in the knees at the starting blocks? He ends up the same place he was at the end of Rotj, it's only perceived as growth within this film because Rian got his character wrong from the beginning.

Poe learns fuck all, and Leia even admits following him is the right thing to do at the end.

I still don't understand what Holdo actually is, other than a way to artificially tell Poe he's wrong.

Finn learns less than fuck all - and let's not forget he was actually technically still flying away from the resistance when his sacrifice was completely neutered.

Rose is a non-entity,

DJ is just a plot device as already discussed.

Kylo came dangerously close to having some character development then just went full retard evil instead.
That's the frustrating thing about these movies - the bits were all there in TFA to tell an engrossing story, and it got squandered by RJ.

You had some good classic adventure movie chemistry between Rey and Finn (potentially romantic) and Poe and Finn, and TLJ splits them apart completely and wastes that to teach them trite "lessons" that do not matter. TLJ's one interesting idea was Kylo and Rey breaking off to form some third Force faction and it just tosses that to go back to the Sith vs Jedi conflict, which has an entire side-story devoted to being blamed on capitalism.
 
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Darkmakaimura

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I like how in Star Wars, genocidal maniacs are constantly forgiven.

Darth Vader was a one shot "yeah ok I forgive you" thing but hell nah, now we got to forgive Kylo Fucking Ren for murdering at least three worlds in TFA and get a kiss at the end.

It like Hitler's grandson be like "yeah I'm gonna finish what you tried to do Adolf gramps lmao I'll show those dastardly jews."

Star Wars is all about forgiving Space Hitlers but not only once because they yo muddafukking dad but again because of some Force Dyad and you look like a big nosed Keanu Reeves 'n shit.

Great messages and stories here.

Just gimme back my no-shits-given Darth Nihilus sucking up your soul shit and bury Disney bullshit under my rectum ffs.
 
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Rentahamster

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I like how in Star Wars, genocidal maniacs are constantly forgiven.

Darth Vader was a one shot "yeah ok I forgive you" thing but hell nah, now we got to forgive Kylo Fucking Ren for murdering at least three worlds in TFA and get a kiss at the end.

It like Hitler's grandson be like "yeah I'm gonna finish what you tried to do Adolf gramps lmao I'll show those dastardly jews."

Star Wars is all about forgiving Space Hitlers but not only once because they yo muddafukking dad but again because of some Force Dyad and you look like a big nosed Keanu Reeves 'n shit.

Great messages and stories here.

Just gimme back my no-shits-given Darth Nihilus sucking up your soul shit and bury Disney bullshit under my rectum ffs.
The bigger the villain, the bigger the redemption. Hell, even Vegeta was forgiven.
 

JLMC469

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Feb 6, 2018
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One thing that surprised me was that the theater was full and there was a ton of people in line when we got out of the room for the next showing. This has been out for more than a week now which is weird.

Maybe the holidays
Bingo.

A weeks is nothing :messenger_tears_of_joy:.
 

DeafTourette

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Apr 23, 2018
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I won't comment on Luke as our thoughts on him are just completely different. He isn't a main character but he and Rey learn and grow through each other.

As for Poe, he is a"fly boy" and is too eager to always jump into action and fight. Leia doesn't like this attitude of his as she sees more potential in him. At the end, Poe doesn't want to jump into action and instead wants to retreat and help save lives. Of course Leia wants to follow him, his thinking has fundamentally changed.

As for Finn, his mission to Canto Bight and DJ is what changed him. He'd been a First Order "troop" all his life but hadn't actually seen any action until the start of Force Awakens. He didn't understand or comprehend what the First Order was until he saw the slaughter of that village. Even at that point he didn't fully understand what the First Order were.
He only cared about himself, Rey and running away, that carried through to the start of TLJ.
It wasn't until he learnt about Rose's past, the people on Canto Bight profiteering from the war and how twisted people become from the war (DJ) that he actively decided to stand up and start fighting rather than running away.

You can say that there is no character growth in TLJ if you want but it's definitely more involved than say Han in the OT. He just wants to get paid for helping Obi-Wan and Luke and leave, then returns at the last moment because ... reasons?
As far as Finn goes... He already had his character change in TFA. He fought off Phasma AND Kylo after being afraid of them (The First Order) for a little over half the film. He fought back and was finally in the Resistance. His character regressed in TLJ as being selfish and again afraid of TFO ... It made no sense. If anything, he should have been seething with rage against Kylo for slicing open his back. He was a daggone hero!

The Canto Bight mission was worthless because all it did was kind of retread his arc from TFA but with a lecture instead of him naturally finding his fight instead of flight.
 

kunonabi

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The Canto Bight stuff could have worked had Finn's pacifism been played up more through the first two films and had the Rebellion's function in the grand war machine actually not just been lip service. Finn realizing he traded one destructive force for another and having an actual crisis isnt a terrible idea. But like everything else, Johnson doesnt actually do anything with it other than some surface level dialogue and Finn just commits himself to the Rebellion with little to no actual conflict anyway.

Some of Johnson's ideas werent bad on paper it was just the execution that shat the bed.
 

sol_bad

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Jan 17, 2006
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As far as Finn goes... He already had his character change in TFA. He fought off Phasma AND Kylo after being afraid of them (The First Order) for a little over half the film. He fought back and was finally in the Resistance. His character regressed in TLJ as being selfish and again afraid of TFO ... It made no sense. If anything, he should have been seething with rage against Kylo for slicing open his back. He was a daggone hero!

The Canto Bight mission was worthless because all it did was kind of retread his arc from TFA but with a lecture instead of him naturally finding his fight instead of flight.
Finn only went to Starkiller to save Rey. Not to join or fight for the Resistance. He even lied so that he could go on the Rey rescue mission.
 

Malakhov

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Jun 6, 2004
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Bingo.

A weeks is nothing :messenger_tears_of_joy:.
It is for a full week around here, I've never seen a full seating with a movie that's been out for a week, yet alone a 1pm and 3h50pm showing on a Sunday.

I went and saw movies like infinity war at 1pm on Sunday one week after release with the kids and it was empty.

So yeah, definitely because of the holidays if not it would be empty here already at the time I go there with the kids
 
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Saruhashi

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Oct 2, 2018
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The Canto Bight stuff could have worked had Finn's pacifism been played up more through the first two films and had the Rebellion's function in the grand war machine actually not just been lip service. Finn realizing he traded one destructive force for another and having an actual crisis isnt a terrible idea. But like everything else, Johnson doesnt actually do anything with it other than some surface level dialogue and Finn just commits himself to the Rebellion with little to no actual conflict anyway.

Some of Johnson's ideas werent bad on paper it was just the execution that shat the bed.
Yeah, I felt like they really missed out on a massive opportunity with Finn.
To have a stormtrooper that actually fled but who would also have a fear of Han, Luke and Leia because of how many stormtroopers they had actually killed would have worked really well as an unexpected twist and a critique of Star Wars, the Jedi etc etc.

It would allow for basically a third faction to freshen up the new trilogy and to take the story in a new direction.
A group that sees both Jedi and Sith as bad and wants to stop the war by peaceful means.

Even by the end of TFA there was still a chance for the 2nd movie to show that he only did what he did to save Rey but now she just wants to help maintain the Jedi vs Sith status quo with people like Finn dying in the crossfire. Instead they shunted him off into the background in episode 8 and JJs attempts to bring him back into in Ep9 were too little too late.
 
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DoctorEkkoUK

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Dec 14, 2014
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Overall I enjoyed it and thought it did a decent job of tying up the loose ends of the previous films, but I did have some gripes with it.

hyperspace skipping - This felt like an advert for a Disney theme park ride. But more than anything it breaks an established rule in SW that you can't jump to hyperspace near a planet or large gravity well.

The scenes with Leia felt forced and you could really tell they were written around some limited dialouge that they scraped together from recordings made before Carrie died. It reminded me of that episode of southpark where they used Chefs previous lines to make a new episode with him.

The knights of irelevance.

A bit too heavy on the Force Heal usage.

The first half of the film was extrmley fast moving to fit everything in.

Every star destroyer is a deathstar now...

Aside from these things I didn't mind it and the "the emperor did it...." answer to all the things like snoke etc is probably the least bad answer they couldve come up with. Overall though I'm glad this trilogy is over and hope they have learnt from their mistakes and the Mandalorians success.
 

Saruhashi

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Some behind the scenes revelations.

Jeepers if true

I'd say that there is evidence that some of this is true based on what we see with the movie itself.

It just seems all over the place. Especially the ending where the movie just seems to be in such a mess.
The early parts of the movie seem fine but it's probably only because the plot was "go here and get this then go there and get that".
As soon as they all get to Exogol is just becomes a huge disaster.
 

#Phonepunk#

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Sep 4, 2018
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After the way they shot stuff for Rogue One and just told the director to use it, it wouldn’t surprise me if they did that again.

I called the China Force ghosts issue. Makes total sense. These new movies are way more dependent on overseas BO and China does not allow ghosts in movies. There is a strong possibility they ruined the ending to appease China.
 
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royox

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If i was watching the movie and Rey suddently was surrounded by Mace, Yoda, Obi Wan, Anakin, Asoka, Kanan, Luke, Leia and etc I would still be screaming like a girl.
 
Aug 28, 2019
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Some behind the scenes revelations.

Jeepers if true

Honestly sounds true, though I don't get why the actual stage would be mind melting, still, like why would you SEE the force ghosts when looking at the finished set? There's something still missing there. That said usually I don't believe this stuff but in this case most the changes make it a better film and that leads me to believe it's true. Like most of what I read enhances scenes, usually when someone posts something like this I'm more dubious any of the different ideas would even work but this all sounds better.
 
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