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Spoilers Star Wars IX Open Spoilers, Leaks, Trash Talk, etc. (***Warning SPOILERS***)

#Phonepunk#

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Killed in TLJ by Finn
First Holdo lightspeeded into them which magically caused her to lose her gun and teleported her across the hanger. Finn smacking her just finished the job of Holdo’s lightspeed conveniently taking out all the bad guys while leaving the good guys safe
 
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Nymphae

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I love that bit in the MauLer video where he talks about the line in RoS where they try to retcon the "Holdo Maneuver" as a "one in a million" chance. So was she knowingly taking a one in a million chance to wipe out that ship? Or just trying to escape the conflict by herself at the very last second lol?
 

#Phonepunk#

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Imagine all that JJ could do with the wide open story of no one to fight! It still would have been his fault if it wasn't interesting enough for some reason though
Just think, with Rian’s wide open future we could have seen Kylo Ren losing his temper and throwing tantrums! I mean, more than usual!
 

VertigoOA

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So the Emperor in RotJ was a fucking clone.

They managed to shit on the original movies in ever way....
 
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Rentahamster

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I love that bit in the MauLer video where he talks about the line in RoS where they try to retcon the "Holdo Maneuver" as a "one in a million" chance. So was she knowingly taking a one in a million chance to wipe out that ship? Or just trying to escape the conflict by herself at the very last second lol?
Who knows. Judging by the reaction of Hux and the command deck, they took it as huge threat. If, in the lore, it's actually a one in a million chance, they sure didn't act like it was lol.

Hell, that was so dumb. At least it looked cool.
 
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Roronoa Zoro

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I love that bit in the MauLer video where he talks about the line in RoS where they try to retcon the "Holdo Maneuver" as a "one in a million" chance. So was she knowingly taking a one in a million chance to wipe out that ship? Or just trying to escape the conflict by herself at the very last second lol?
Lolol #holdowasjustrunning
 
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#Phonepunk#

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And getting defeated a third time with at least one of them being when he got made a fool of by a hologram
guy is so powerful with the force he can stop a laser in the air and pick up on a random stormtrooper not obeying orders

yet the same guy can't tell if he killed Luke or not, his own Jedi master, immediately after fighting him.

then 7 years later same guy can't tell his Jedi master isn't even on the same planet.

LOL and this clown who constantly gets clowned on is going to be the final boss of IX, right.

"oh but we can show FO officers snickering behind his back and making him lose his temper" wow yes we could have seen the same things that happened in the first two movies in this brave new world JJ denied us where Kylo Ren lashes out (which he already does) and his own army doesn't take him seriously (which they already don't).

and in this fantasy RJ IX we still have Rey killing Kylo Ren the last Skywalker, whether she is a "nobody" or Palpatine, her fate was always going to be the same. end the Skywalker bloodline and inherit all their shit.
 
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Nymphae

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It was already posted a few pages back. I am curious how he gets away with using so much footage from the movie.
 

ExpandKong

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I love that bit in the MauLer video where he talks about the line in RoS where they try to retcon the "Holdo Maneuver" as a "one in a million" chance. So was she knowingly taking a one in a million chance to wipe out that ship? Or just trying to escape the conflict by herself at the very last second lol?
I find that I very much like the idea of her realizing she fucked everything up and got nearly all of the resistance killed, and trying to flee to save herself, only to fucking explode knowing that she is a failure.
 
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VertigoOA

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Wait. What?

I can't watch the YT right now if that's where this info came from.

So the Palpatine on Sith world was the ORIGINAL and the one in ROTJ was the clone?
There’s a quote from the BvS dude who wrote the movie that confirms that Palpatine did indeed die in RotJ.

there’s still holes but we are to assume he was a doppelgänger of some kind.

I fucking hate Disney

"The source of the evil in the galaxy is this dark spirit waiting for its revenge and biding its time. The entity known as Palpatine in this version – his body died in Return of the Jedi – is patient and has been waiting."
 
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Darkmakaimura

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There’s a quote from the BvS dude who wrote the movie that confirms that Palpatine did indeed die in RotJ.

there’s still holes but we are to assume he was a doppelgänger of some kind.

I fucking hate Disney
I figured the clone was the one we saw in ROS but it would be a twist if the clone was the ROTJ all along and the real Palpatine was on Exogel all along.
 

#Phonepunk#

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Palp's return is supposed to be vague enough where it doesn't impact anything. he still died. Anakin still "brought balance to the force". they didn't want to go too deep into explaining him bc they knew it was bs.
There’s a quote from the BvS dude who wrote the movie that confirms that Palpatine did indeed die in RotJ.

there’s still holes but we are to assume he was a doppelgänger of some kind.

I fucking hate Disney
you will find nothing but holes. you should expect that.

past TFA anyone looking for consistency in these films is on a fool's errand. just enjoy them for the spectacle. if you let yourself get sucked into "why did this happen" then you will never find a satisfying answer.
 
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sol_bad

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There’s a quote from the BvS dude who wrote the movie that confirms that Palpatine did indeed die in RotJ.

there’s still holes but we are to assume he was a doppelgänger of some kind.

I fucking hate Disney
Who cares whether he is real or a doppleganger.
In 1980 and 1983 we had no idea who he was, where he came from, how he came to power or why he could shoot lightning from his hands.
PLOT HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

VertigoOA

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Not just plot holes. Fan fiction. And a bad one at that

An insulting Trilogy of films from Disney that shamelessly ripped off the OT but without any of its substance.

Disney Wars is complete shit. They made Star Wars into soulless, cookie cutter and generic marvel trash.
 
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sol_bad

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But the Legends EU is fan fiction and it's loved by many. Palpatine came back in the Legends EU too.
 

MisterHero

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But the Legends EU is fan fiction and it's loved by many. Palpatine came back in the Legends EU too.
No, it literally isn't. Also, Han shooting Palpy in the back is better than what we have now.

Palpy dying to a non-Force user because he tried to take the latter's son would've been great.
 

sol_bad

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No, it literally isn't. Also, Han shooting Palpy in the back is better than what we have now.

Palpy dying to a non-Force user because he tried to take the latter's son would've been great.
It literally isn't? Do you mean it isn't fan fiction?
 

Darkmakaimura

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It is fan fiction though. George and Disney have ignored it.
What's defined as fan fiction?

There were professional writers behind the EU as well as established devs like Bioware.

I always think of fan fiction as just a fan with little to no experience in writing.

Plus all those novels, games, etc had to go through Lucasfilm and get the ok. Lucas was personally even involved with Force Unleashed.

These EU stories weren't exactly written by StarWarsFan4Life on Tumblr.
 
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VertigoOA

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Old EU was never really canon. It was all fan fiction unless George said otherwise. I never subscribed to the thought that the old or new EU was ever good to begin with outside of KOTOR.

then again ... we’re almost having to choose which of the three Star Wars timelines to accept as canon. So 1-6 it is.
 
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Darkmakaimura

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Old EU was never really canon. It was all fan fiction unless George said otherwise. I never subscribed to the thought that the old or new EU was ever good to begin with outside of KOTOR.

then again ... we’re almost having to choose which of the three Star Wars timelines to accept as canon. So 1-6 it is.
Old EU was not fan fiction.

It was professionally published and had to earn an approval by Lucasfilm. Being non canon =/= fan fiction autonatically.

And as mentioned things like Force Unleashed got even more direct involvement by Lucas and co.

As far as I'm concerned, fan fiction is work by fans without the involvement or approval by the creators and not professionally published.
 

sol_bad

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Old EU was not fan fiction.

It was professionally published and had to earn an approval by Lucasfilm. Being non canon =/= fan fiction autonatically.

And as mentioned things like Force Unleashed got even more direct involvement by Lucas and co.

As far as I'm concerned, fan fiction is work by fans without the involvement or approval by the creators and not professionally published.
People are calling the new movies fan fiction and they are made by professionals.
*shrugs*
 
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Darkmakaimura

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People are calling the new movies fan fiction and they are made by professionals.
*shrugs*
Not literal fan fiction of course. They're saying It's written as if it were by some drooling nerd on Twitter with little to no writing experience.

The movies may be poorly written and managed to the point where the drooling nerd might actually come up with a better story, but no it's unfortunately canon/profesionally wriiten. I think if there were better mamagement and planning imo JJ could have given us something a lot better.
 
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royox

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People are calling the new movies fan fiction and they are made by professionals.
*shrugs*
For me the new movies are like Dragon Ball GT. Fun to see but it's not canon cause it's not made by Toriyama. There are cool stuff I like as Kylo Ren, Phasma, The Star Killer that I love in games like Battlefront 2 (Im a beast with Phasma) but it's not canon and I have hopes that some day we will get the real deal...or not and it all ended in 6.
 
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sol_bad

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For me the new movies are like Dragon Ball GT. Fun to see but it's not canon cause it's not made by Toriyama. There are cool stuff I like as Kylo Ren, Phasma, The Star Killer that I love in games like Battlefront 2 (Im a beast with Phasma) but it's not canon and I have hopes that some day we will get the real deal...or not and it all ended in 6.
Sorry.
Disney own the franchise. George gave up. Disney decide what is cannon now. But if ya'll wanna pretend it's not cannon that's cool. People like to pretend the prequels don't exist.
 

royox

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Sorry.
Disney own the franchise. George gave up. Disney decide what is cannon now. But if ya'll wanna pretend it's not cannon that's cool. People like to pretend the prequels don't exist.
Disney can decide what they consider canon now, that's true. But there's no way they can wipe from my mind Kyle Katarn and Mara Jade.

I'm lucky I never read comics or books explaining all the stuff after ep6 so I really don't have 2 stories stuck in my head about "after empire" events.
 
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sol_bad

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Disney can decide what they consider canon now, that's true. But there's no way they can wipe from my mind Kyle Katarn and Mara Jade.

I'm lucky I never read comics or books explaining all the stuff after ep6 so I really don't have 2 stories stuck in my head about "after empire" events.
In the comics, they could do some really cool shit. Legends EU could be an alternate reality.
CROSSOVER!!!!!
 

Saruhashi

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What's defined as fan fiction?

There were professional writers behind the EU as well as established devs like Bioware.

I always think of fan fiction as just a fan with little to no experience in writing.

Plus all those novels, games, etc had to go through Lucasfilm and get the ok. Lucas was personally even involved with Force Unleashed.

These EU stories weren't exactly written by StarWarsFan4Life on Tumblr.
In the context of Star Wars etc I would consider "fan-fiction" to be basically amateur writing.
Some kid writing a story about Darth Vader and posting it online. Stuff like that.

The way things are going now with movies and TV and the ownership of intellectual property I think there is real scope to question the authenticity of various things.

For example, I do enjoy WBs Middle Earth games. Bad taste in video games, I know, but the gameplay is very fun and I love the setting, character designs and the visual authenticity of the whole thing. HOWEVER, the story telling and the liberties they take with the source material is absolutely shocking. How the hell they get away with it I will never know.

So it is professional, yes, but that honestly makes it worse than fan fiction for me.

I think some amateur writer sitting at their computer and coming up with their own stories set in these worlds is fine. Hell, if the content is actually good then with some work it could be hammered into an original story set in an original universe and maybe even an entirely new IP could be born. A lot of sci-fi and fantasy does borrow from Star Wars. Just as Star Wars itself borrowed back in the day.

What doesn't sit right with me though is that these big corporations can come in and say "OK we want to buy the rights to this IP" and then they can just release whatever the hell they want and it's official. This is kind of worse than fan-fiction in my eyes and so the content of the stories should be held to a far higher standard.

Now that all the dust has settled, my opinion is that the sequel movies are dreadful films that have no respect for the source material. Just because they are able to create authentic looking sets and costumes they can masquerade as Star Wars movies when actually it's just really really expensive and really really crappy fan fiction.

I mean, it's so much like fan fiction that the main character is a total Mary Sue.
People say "waaaah Luke was a Mary Sue" but that's wrong because Luke is an original Star Wars character from the mind of the Star Wars creator and part of the franchise since the very beginning. An argument for another time.

When people argue over what is and is not canon I think there is good conversation to be had about how far these things can really go.
So some of the Extended Universe stuff was considered canon.
Then Disney comes in and buys everything and declares the extended universe to be no longer canon and it will be replaced with a new canon.
Will there be a day when they think about taking another stab at the prequels and declare Lucas prequels non-canon?

I wonder if it's a case of judging what they think they can do without getting too much grief from the audience and then going with that?
Helped I am sure by the constant stream of people saying that the problem with Star Wars is the fans.

At the end of the day these atrocious fan fiction-like sequels are only canon because Disney was able to front the cash to buy their way in.
The only difference between some teen girl sitting at home writing a Mary Sue into a Star Wars story and Disney's May Rey Sue is that Disney paid 4 billion dollars to make theirs "official".
 
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VertigoOA

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It’s fan fiction because Star Wars over and done with. The emperor died in return of the Jedi with finality even according to Lucas’ most recent remarks about it.

Disney Wars is fake. It’s as simple as that.

Anything Star Wars not written by George Lucas is fan fiction. Fact

Now it’s just another trash comic book ip.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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What's defined as fan fiction?
New films are pretty much bad fan fiction. Like any fan fiction it is a writer self insert and she gets to do all the things, fly the Falcon, use the force, get Vader’s lightsaber, etc. it’s like letting a kid on a Star Wars ride and they do all the things u know. All the same old fan fiction tropes except if it was actual fan fiction it would have more respect for the source material.

Best example is Rey finishing Han Solo’s sentences. It’s a common fan fiction trope for new characters to instantly get along with old ones, TFA has them literally finishing each other’s sentences, this is how much they get along, after like 5 mins together. Right before he hires her on for life!
 
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sol_bad

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I mean, it's so much like fan fiction that the main character is a total Mary Sue.
People say "waaaah Luke was a Mary Sue" but that's wrong because Luke is an original Star Wars character from the mind of the Star Wars creator and part of the franchise since the very beginning. An argument for another time.
How does that make it ok for Luke to be a Mary Sue? If Lucas created Rey it would all of a sudden be ok?
 

Saruhashi

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How does that make it ok for Luke to be a Mary Sue? If Lucas created Rey it would all of a sudden be ok?
Luke is not a Mary Sue though?
A Mary Sue is a character "inserted" into an already existing and established fictional universe that is able to inexplicably do all of the things and be loved by all of the already established characters.

If Lucas created Rey then it's neither OK or not OK. She would be less of a Mary Sue by definition but I doubt that would make her a better character.
The fact of the matter is that Luke Skywalker is not a Mary Sue simply by virtue of being the main protagonist of the story that established Star Wars as a major movie franchise in the first place.

You can argue that Luke is a boring, overpowered and under developed character if you like but that's a different conversation altogether.
I would disagree but whatever. It appears that "but the originals" has become the "but Hilary's emails" of Star Wars conversations.

Lucas created Star Wars. Disney spent a ton of money for the privilege of inserting their own characters and stories into Star Wars and having those be deemed "official". It is what it is.

You can certainly argue that Rey is not a Mary Sue however I believe that the description and the circumstances (sequels basically being expensive fan fiction) fits pretty well.

Below is the original Mary Sue. See if you can figure out why people argue that this applies to Rey but obviously does not apply to Luke.
If you can't work it out then I'm afraid I can't do much to help you.

A Trekkie's Tale

"Gee, golly, gosh, gloriosky," thought Mary Sue as she stepped on the bridge of the Enterprise. "Here I am, the youngest lieutenant in the fleet - only fifteen and a half years old." Captain Kirk came up to her.

"Oh, Lieutenant, I love you madly. Will you come to bed with me?" "Captain! I am not that kind of girl!" "You're right, and I respect you for it. Here, take over the ship for a minute while I go get some coffee for us." Mr. Spock came onto the bridge. "What are you doing in the command seat, Lieutenant?" "The Captain told me to." "Flawlessly logical. I admire your mind."

Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Dr. McCoy and Mr. Scott beamed down with Lt. Mary Sue to Rigel XXXVII. They were attacked by green androids and thrown into prison. In a moment of weakness Lt. Mary Sue revealed to Mr. Spock that she too was half Vulcan. Recovering quickly, she sprung the lock with her hairpin and they all got away back to the ship.

But back on board, Dr. McCoy and Lt. Mary Sue found out that the men who had beamed down were seriously stricken by the jumping cold robbies, Mary Sue less so. While the four officers languished in Sick Bay, Lt. Mary Sue ran the ship, and ran it so well she received the Nobel Peace Prize, the Vulcan Order of Gallantry and the Tralfamadorian Order of Good Guyhood.

However the disease finally got to her and she fell fatally ill. In the Sick Bay as she breathed her last, she was surrounded by Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Dr. McCoy, and Mr. Scott, all weeping unashamedly at the loss of her beautiful youth and youthful beauty, intelligence, capability and all around niceness. Even to this day her birthday is a national holiday of the Enterprise.
 

Saruhashi

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There’s a quote from the BvS dude who wrote the movie that confirms that Palpatine did indeed die in RotJ.

there’s still holes but we are to assume he was a doppelgänger of some kind.

I fucking hate Disney
Yeah they are really all over the place with this.

They design the character as really messed up and use shots that focus on his injuries implying that he survived somehow.
They show shots of not only intact pieces of the Death Star but of the partially intact throne room. Implying that his body could have been recovered.
They also show quite clearly that the force can be used to "teleport" stuff. Implying that he could have just force teleported himself out of there.

So a few times in the movie they explicitly show that he could somehow survive and be recovered or travel to Exogol.
Now, it's still bullshit but it's in the movie so whatever.

Yet they are still saying dumb stuff like "he's some kind of evil entity or spirit that needs a body" or some shit that is somehow even more dumb and makes it look like maybe the writers don't actually know.

Like as if you had multiple writers competing to establish the deal with Palpatine.

Is he a clone? Was he recovered from the Death Star wreckage? Did he force teleport out of there? Did he fly through space like Leia? Did all those Sith guys use the darkside to save him and bring him back some other way? Who the hell knows? Who the hell cares?

Maybe they though they were being smart and it was meant to be "it's a mystery so come up with your own Palpatine theory" as a jab at TLJ but it just didn't land with the audience so now they are scrambling to explain?
 
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#Phonepunk#

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Is he a clone? Was he recovered from the Death Star wreckage? Did he force teleport out of there? Did he fly through space like Leia? Did all those Sith guys use the darkside to save him and bring him back some other way? Who the hell knows? Who the hell cares?
that's the thing, as long as you care you will be unsatisfied with the answers. it was obvious from TFA on that they are just pulling this stuff out of their ass. if anyone is still paying them to see these movies and taking them seriously, that's on them. i see those questions and after TFA i couldn't begin to care that any of them are answered. feel like at this point the writers themselves have said "Well it's a space wizards movie for children" to excuse their own writing. if you are trying to take it seriously, that's on you, and you will only be disappointed.

i mean you are listening to the BvS guy for explanation. you guys did see that movie, right? why would anyone expect anything out of Terrio after that travesty...

just sit back and enjoy the lights and flashy things. the moment you question "Wait a minute...?" you are a mark, they have your money. you want to know more? then buy the next thing. they will gladly take your money even if you call them idiots nonstop. it only proves they need to put less effort into writing the next thing, since mysteries just leaves further stuff to sell, and you will buy it anyways.
 
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