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Spoilers Star Wars IX Open Spoilers, Leaks, Trash Talk, etc. (***Warning SPOILERS***)

Darkmakaimura

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Fwiw I know people keep saying Disney bought Lucas but didn't he sell it to them? So.... He's to blame here.

Also he apparently (and I've only heard this before from somebody else here) that he pretty much had a hand in picking or outright recommended Kathleen Kennedy for the job.

As far as canon and what not, I like to think Legends exists in a parallel universe which ironically could exist canonically due to the World Between Worlds.

Edit: Cripes the writer behind ROS was the writer also behind BvS? That was such an atrocious movie. Who the fuck would ever give that guy a big movie to write? Fuck damn KK is dumb.
 
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ExpandKong

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Fwiw I know people keep saying Disney bought Lucas but didn't he sell it to them? So.... He's to blame here.

Also he apparently (and I've only heard this before from somebody else here) that he pretty much had a hand in picking or outright recommended Kathleen Kennedy for the job.

As far as canon and what not, I like to think Legends exists in a parallel universe which ironically could exist canonically due to the World Between Worlds.

Edit: Cripes the writer behind ROS was the writer also behind BvS? That was such an atrocious movie. Who the fuck would ever give that guy a big movie to write? Fuck damn KK is dumb.
i mean, blaming George for some dumb shit is nothing new to Star Wars fans I guess so why not.

Really the blame falls on all of us for thinking Disney would do anything other than what they’ve always done.

Star Wars is already live action though so maybe they’ll go animated when they inevitably remake all these movies in ten years.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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yes do not blame George for these movies. people blaming him for anything is rich and entitled af.

blame KK for agreeing to a needlessly aggressive schedule that hurt the writing and production of all these movies. the last movie had less time to be made than the first one! that is absurd. George Lucas did not have anything to do with that. i don't blame him for having her there, she was a diversity hire, meant to appeal to the purchasing company, who would have this asset, for their own corporate virtue signalling. what George did was smart business (look at her resume and tell me she's a bad pick) IMO the new terms of ownership were just not agreeable to the way things had been done.

George had his own sequel outline, but they ignored it. tbh i could see KK even trying to offer it up at first, but D turning it down. when Terrio was interviewed about writing, he was asked if he had read George's outlines, and he said he had read rough drafts of the original Star Wars that he founds online. that's a no on George's ST outlines. that tells me he wasn't even allowed to see George's outlines. that tells me there was a kind of NDA around them. possibly to keep ownership of the new franchise clear. after all, if he could claim ownership of the new stuff, then the huge $4 billion sale would appear to be a bit pointless, at least to the stockholders. it would probably mess with future IP rights as well. all of the decisions around the ST were made with money in mind.

was it KK's idea to have JJ and RJ write their own movies? that was a bad idea. the PT should have shown them the follies of giving all control to one person. in truth, they wrote the movies, they had the ego to think they could do all of it, they are the ones who ultimately fucked up. for me, the buck doesn't stop at Disney or KK, it stops at the clowns who wrote and directed the ST.
 
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buizel

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imagine if they left it on a cliffhanger ,and said "our heroes will return in episode x"

that one thing couldve easily saved it and bought them some time

hire me ryan adams
 

Darkmakaimura

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i mean, blaming George for some dumb shit is nothing new to Star Wars fans I guess so why not.

Really the blame falls on all of us for thinking Disney would do anything other than what they’ve always done.

Star Wars is already live action though so maybe they’ll go animated when they inevitably remake all these movies in ten years.
I like George but isn't he somewhat to blame for selling it and who he picked?

I like George btw. I don't hate the PT as much as everyone else. In fact, visually they were stunning and I wanted to live in that universe.

In fact George is far more creative than KK or Disney will ever be. I wish aesthetically and creatively the ST was more like the PT.

I don't blame George for much. I thank him for everything he's given us but in the case if selling it off to Disney and putting KK in charge, it was a dumb move.
 

Nymphae

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I like George but isn't he somewhat to blame for selling it and who he picked?
You can't blame the failures of the new entries on the guy who sold the franchise. Could we praise him if they hit it out of the park? No, it wouldn't have had anything to do with him. Same with the fact that they were horrific failures, that's on Disney.
 

Darkmakaimura

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yes do not blame George for these movies. people blaming him for anything is rich and entitled af.

blame KK for agreeing to a needlessly aggressive schedule that hurt the writing and production of all these movies. the last movie had less time to be made than the first one! that is absurd. George Lucas did not have anything to do with that. i don't blame him for having her there, she was a diversity hire, meant to appeal to the purchasing company, who would have this asset, for their own corporate virtue signalling. what George did was smart business (look at her resume and tell me she's a bad pick) IMO the new terms of ownership were just not agreeable to the way things had been done.

George had his own sequel outline, but they ignored it. tbh i could see KK even trying to offer it up at first, but D turning it down. when Terrio was interviewed about writing, he was asked if he had read George's outlines, and he said he had read rough drafts of the original Star Wars that he founds online. that's a no on George's ST outlines. that tells me he wasn't even allowed to see George's outlines. that tells me there was a kind of NDA around them. possibly to keep ownership of the new franchise clear. after all, if he could claim ownership of the new stuff, then the huge $4 billion sale would appear to be a bit pointless, at least to the stockholders. it would probably mess with future IP rights as well. all of the decisions around the ST were made with money in mind.

was it KK's idea to have JJ and RJ write their own movies? that was a bad idea. the PT should have shown them the follies of giving all control to one person. in truth, they wrote the movies, they had the ego to think they could do all of it, they are the ones who ultimately fucked up. for me, the buck doesn't stop at Disney or KK, it stops at the clowns who wrote and directed the ST.
Yeah but KK is to blame to a degree.

I hear what you're saying and when it comes to SW, I normally agree with your posts 99 percent of the time and we're usually on the same wavelength but I do think George selling it to Disney and regardless of "business decision diversity hiring" he blundered.

Is it entirelt his fault? Of course not. But to a small degree it is. I'm saying this because I love Lucas and would have rather seen the ST in his hands. Like I said above, I actually enjoyed the PT. Wish aesthetically we could've gotten more movies like it. It even hurts me to see how Disney barely references the prequels. I wanted some Naboo or Coruscant or goofy aliens that play a larger role.

You know it's funny but I saw Thor: Ragnarok again the other day. The MCU really has become like a Star Wars with a great variety of different worlds and fun aliens that play major roles. I wish nu-Star Wars would be more varied like that. One of my top reasons for loving SW are the great planets and non-human aliens.
 

Darkmakaimura

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You can't blame the failures of the new entries on the guy who sold the franchise. Could we praise him if they hit it out of the park? No, it wouldn't have had anything to do with him. Same with the fact that they were horrific failures, that's on Disney.
It's mostly on Disney but George had to factor in they could do a complete turn on his universe.

I'm not even blaming him partially and I get he figured they could do the best and KK has an impressive resume plus what #Phonepunk# #Phonepunk# said regarding her being sort of a diversity hire to appease the faux feminists in Hollywood.

Ultimately I agree the blame mostly lies after the assimilation and how it was treated.

Disney does toi have the potential to make amazing SW movies. Just look at Infinity War, probably my top movies of all time. But yeah the way it was handled maybe even Lucas didn't realize how bad it would get. Hard to see, the future is.
 

Nymphae

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but I do think George selling it to Disney and regardless of "business decision diversity hiring" he blundered.
It's mostly on Disney but George had to factor in they could do a complete turn on his universe.
I just think it's sort of a trivial point. Yes you can criticize him for selling to poor stewards of the franchise to some degree, but the product they ultimately produced is their own fault, not his. He probably had good reason to think that they weren't going to torpedo this billion dollar franchise with decades worth of hardcore fans ready to throw money at it, who could have foreseen that?
 

Darkmakaimura

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I just think it's sort of a trivial point. Yes you can criticize him for selling to poor stewards of the franchise to some degree, but the product they ultimately produced is their own fault, not his. He probably had good reason to think that they weren't going to torpedo this billion dollar franchise with decades worth of hardcore fans ready to throw money at it, who could have foreseen that?
That is pretty much all I'm saying and I agree with what you're saying here.

I'm not mad at Lucas. Like I mentioned I had no issues even with the Prequels minus some of the bad dialogue and silliness. I always thought he got far too much hate for that.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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Disney does toi have the potential to make amazing SW movies. Just look at Infinity War, probably my top movies of all time. But yeah the way it was handled maybe even Lucas didn't realize how bad it would get. Hard to see, the future is.
the way i see it, it doesn't matter. George made the movies he wanted to make with the PT and everyone hated him for it. he had no illusions Disney wouldn't fuck it up somehow, i'm sure part of the appeal was letting someone ELSE take the heat for a change. i don't think he is thinking "oh no my previous lore" the dude has gotten shit from lore nazis for decades at this point.

i mean, it didn't really even "get bad", i think you can argue that. almost making a billion even with zero effort or creativity put into it, they are a Too Big to Fail. certainly if someone is concerned with canon or lore they will find plenty to be upset about here, and say they failed, but they can do that with the PT and SE. many people say it died in 1999, or in 1983. Star Wars has been declared dead more than rock n roll at this point, only difference is they are still releasing Star Wars movies at a rapid pace.

a lot of his sale he took in company stock, he sees it as an investment. and no doubt in 10-20 years when people are still complaining about the ST and how it destroyed the series, they will still be shelling out for holographic discs, and George's estate will get returns on ALL the new stuff, crap or not. making 5 more movies would have physically killed him, instead he let someone else do it, and he still reaps the benefits. whether or not they destroy lore is entirely beside the point: people complaining about Star Wars lore is not a bug, it's a feature.
 
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ExpandKong

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This picture right here is probably the best thing to come out of the Disney movies.

Couple random thoughts since the thread is bumped:

- Rey's Mary Sue status has been pretty much set in stone since TLJ, but they just kept piling stuff on here. The whole manufactured drama between her and Poe in the beginning (that's dropped immediately) is because he thinks she's so amazing and awesome that she doesn't need to be training, she needs to be out on the front lines because the rest of them are fuckin' idiots I guess. Or when Zori goes from "we're gonna collect a huge reward on these assholes" to "wow I think you're great come to our hideout" after five seconds of getting her ass whooped. Bleh.

- Has it been brought up already how the Death Star Destroyers all had giant metal wangs hanging off of them and the good guys won by shooting the giant metal wangs?
 

#Phonepunk#

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lot coming out on this supposed early draft.

hilariously, Esquire calls this rumored script nobody else has seen and is related to us via a guy talking about it "Much better than" the finished movie. they hate the movie so much they are praising unverified early drafts over it in headlines.
 

#Phonepunk#

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more i think on it, the more i am pleased with Hux's exit. him just up and saying "I'm the spy" so blatantly and stupidly was a perfect cap to a decently setup character that was treated like a fucking joke in the last movie. he was introduced being foiled by a "Can you hear me now?" joke and Snoke even showed up to comedy slap him on the ground.



some say the Hux trying to backstab Kylo thing was great, I think it was just another thing that undercut Kylo's character. this is one of the main reasons it's hard for me to see Kylo as the main final villain. he's not threatening. Hux is an odd addition, the OT had no Hux analog, as Darth Vader killed all of his generals who failed him. they may have mocked him but they feared him. Kylo on the other hand takes it out on the wall or his mask and lets these losers run his army into the ground. Vader's flunkies did not get the chance to fuck up so many times like this idiot Hux. Vader was such a cold hearted machine, he would force choke a guy to death right at the start of a video briefing.



when you hear that Kylo wants to "finish what Vader started" it is difficult to reconcile his hero worship with his drastically different management style. Vader was calculated, he channeled his rage into getting rid of waste, rid of failure, making his killing machine the most efficient. Kylo Ren allows Hux to backstab him at every turn, constantly failing and embarassing him. we see this guy who has fucked up so much and should have been dealt with long ago nearly assassinate Kylo in TLJ. in any other movie, Vader or the Emperor or any real villain would have killed Hux in the first movie themselves for letting them down. it just casts poor light on Kylo. instead, Hux survives to the third movie, so it makes sense the guy would betray Kylo, and have to spell it out himself, just because Kylo is such a massive knob that he didn't even notice.



look at Vader's efficiency. this is a villain. he kills people who fail him!

Kylo deserved to get backstabbed by Hux.
 
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nush

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- Has it been brought up already how the Death Star Destroyers all had giant metal wangs hanging off of them and the good guys won by shooting the giant metal wangs?
I saw them las a big flashing red weakspot like a video boss.
 

#Phonepunk#

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That makes sense especially since 90% of the movie was them trying to activate the waypoint on their map pointing to the final boss
the movie is totally like a videogame!

when they get confronted by the snake, then she heals it, and it goes away, and as it goes away it unveils the exit, that part was straight out of a video game. they just needed that zelda secret music.
 

Xaero Gravity

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lot coming out on this supposed early draft.

hilariously, Esquire calls this rumored script nobody else has seen and is related to us via a guy talking about it "Much better than" the finished movie. they hate the movie so much they are praising unverified early drafts over it in headlines.
Ehh, I didn't think ROS was perfect, but I'll take that over this supposedly leaked script just based on what I've read.
 

#Phonepunk#

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it was fine. ROS is a fine movie. not every Star Wars has to be this great masterstoke of genius.

but the outrage train has left the station and there's articles to write.
LOL this is not "the most shocking twist in Star Wars history" every single film has salty people claiming that it would have been a great movie had they not fucked it up. people literally say this for almost every movie.
 
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residentgrigo

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Colin Trevorrow´s only good movie is:
He was also only the 4th of the 4 Jurassic World (5/10) writers and the film´s problem is the writing. The direction is fine.
This may all be nonsense but we know that Mark was fired up to do Trevorrow´s film after having huge problems with TLJ and he barely mentions anything about the TROS´s actual content during the press tour last month. So I don´t think that he liked TROS. See the meme above...
These fucking ST films killed him inside...

The leak sound like a workable story but nothing about TROS (3/10) is workable outside of the score and some of the actors. It just cost a lot but the shitty ending fucks with even that. There is NO way in hell that an alternative, even a mediocre one, could have been worse and nothing in the leak invalidates TLJ in the same way TROS (and the current EU comics, those are good) does. SO we may have gotten an actual sequel in the ST for once, as even TLJ (it was written separately from TFA, explains a lot) had nothing to do with its predecessor.

A space squid, huh. This is who trained Palps before the canon collapse (great book).

In conclusion. This happens when no one leads or gets along:


TPM 3D was the reason why the film dropped a bit so TROS wouldn´t even be tied with it @53% on RT as the worst life action SW film. TPM would stand a bit above it, as it should.
The Greatest Teacher, Failure Is.

Still no billion. I say tomorrow:
 
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#Phonepunk#

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World was pleasantly generic for a modern reboot. I loved Fallen Kingdom IMO it was the best since Lost World. Super pulpy. Felt like a for real ‘60s Hammer monster movie. Shame they didn’t give him a shot cos I wonder what he would have done.
 
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residentgrigo

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Trevorrow is now doing Jurassic World 3. He´ll easily break a billion and have the last laugh when we find out that JW is more profitable as a series that the SW ST. I likely won´t see it. Jurassic Park 1 and the first book are the only ones I like but Jurassic Park 3 was fun enough direct-to-DVD 1960/70s monster film.

And this shit won´t happen as he co-wrote and produced all 3 with no crazy hiring and firing drama:

Those JW movies may a bit shit but they are at least someone's shit #Phonepunk# #Phonepunk# . People made them, not a committee, and they left the old ones alone too. So Universal didn´t have to deal with a hate mob of old fans.

I love how much even the blandest of magazines woke up to how badly this ship is run:



PS: The 3 Thrawn books got a good 18 part comic adaptation for all of those who don´t read books (they are all over the web):

I ain´t crazy about the wizard villain who upstages Thrawn and the Luuke stuff goes by too fast but they are good and continue in other books that gave us the original Kylo and whatnot. And Dark Empire too (i only like the first mini-series) that gave us Palps 2.0:
 
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#Phonepunk#

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I just realized, Rey calls Kylo a “murderous snake” and they meet a snake in ROS. She heals the snake and later she heals Kylo. Kylo as the snake is kind of fitting and J.J. is mirroring their force Skype encounters from the previous movie w that symbolism.

snakes are symbolic of hidden knowledge throughout classical mythology. her encounter with the snake teaches her new abilities, it unlocks new knowledge. soon after they escape, she is force pulling a spaceship and then firing off lightning. interestingly the only two beings she uses heal on are Kylo and the snake.

JJ is doing a lot more here than many give him credit for.
 
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residentgrigo

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This movie invented the snake creature:
You could bring up the Staff of Hermes if you want to stretch your healing metaphor further but there is no way that this was intended. JJ half disowned TFA by now and he had a decent amount of control on that film:
For those who hate it, I could not respect your opinion more. And for those who love it, I question your sanity,” he added. “It just, it felt right to us at the time, as does this one [The Rise of Skywalker] now.

TROS has 4 credited writers and was rushed together due to the last-second director replacement. It also had severe-reshoots. The film was even scheduled for summer of 2019 before JJ and the TLJ derailment.
Ben´s death is filmed in reverse and what he says is muted. He only says "ow" as Ben Skywalker. Like WTF? The film´s editor doesn't like the current cut, half the cast could barely give a shit during the press tour, Terrio totally went off the reservation during the interviews and you need to buy books and comics to get more than half of the plot. Like Exagol, Kylo´s retconned backstory and who these fucks are: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Sith_Eternal

I could go on ALL DAY... and did on Era so enough. It´s like all the Reddit fan theories had an abortion on-screen and I was forced to watch it for 2,5 hours...

The 2nd watch last week (in DVD like quality, wink wink) was too much. It went from a 4/10 to 3/10 on IMDB. I won´t touch any of this again for at least a decade. Save us EU!

In summary: TROS is anti-art and trashes E 1-6 (and E7-8). The film apparently had a seizure warning in US cinemas. Is that what it did to my brain?
 
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Darkmakaimura

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it was fine. ROS is a fine movie. not every Star Wars has to be this great masterstoke of genius.

but the outrage train has left the station and there's articles to write.
LOL this is not "the most shocking twist in Star Wars history" every single film has salty people claiming that it would have been a great movie had they not fucked it up. people literally say this for almost every movie.
Even that script sounds meh except for the Tor Valum character. I would have very much welcomed a Lovecraftian-like Dark Side abomination. Too bad that was scraped.
 

#Phonepunk#

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ROS wasn’t made by reddit

seriously it’s one of the most annoying talking points. everyday people didn’t write this movie the hacks making the movie did

so sick of blaming the fans for some dumb shits at the top not knowing how to write a good movie. its pathetic. it’s not that the fans are bad it’s that the creators are
 
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#Phonepunk#

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more updates on that early draft. independently verified by AV Club and Collider now. apparently ReyPoe may have been a thing. this would go along with the fact that Trevorrow requested Rian have them meet in his movie.

 
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residentgrigo

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I never said fans wrote this. Fans are blameless here. That said. JJ is an actual SW fan. I´ll give him that much.
TROS just feels like a self-contradictory fanwank as the people in charge had no direction or balls, they paddled everything back from the last one and once again return to the OT (and Legends) for ideas. A core complains from the critics too.

The saddest billion: https://www.ign.com/articles/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-crosses-1-billion-worldwide
 

residentgrigo

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Here is how the cut (and leaked) The Oracle character was supposed to look like:





I suspect that a filmed scene exists but almost nothing was left from the film´s opening on Mustafar in the final edit.

A Vader VR game explains btw why the planet's climate changed, or something.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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woah cool! always thought the Oracle was fine. that first leaked image is really cool.

all the Sith World stuff in IX is pretty great. lore smashing tho it may be, at least it's something new. a shame they couldn't have introduced new stuff like this in VIII. instead we just sit in space traffic for 2 hours.
 
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residentgrigo

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Leaked concept art for TROS:

The artbook comes out in like 2 months. The one for TFA is a must-read ("comic reader" sites have it) as it shows a good deal of the George version of E7.
 
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VulcanRaven

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I think this trilogy would have been much better if they hadn't killed Luke. I was so disappointed when he died in The Last Jedi.
 

#Phonepunk#

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I think this trilogy would have been much better if they hadn't killed Luke. I was so disappointed when he died in The Last Jedi.
i was disappointed we saw nothing of the Jedi academy, nothing of the other students, not even a single shot, i guess that is all backstory. it's like the sequel trilogy we wanted to see was the backstory for the end of what that actually cool stuff could have been. the comics have them travelling around w other Jedi, fighting the Knights of Ren, exploring cool force stuff. all of that could have been in TLJ rather than the stuck-in-one-place miserable anti lore dump we got.

killing Luke was an ok choice, if totally unnecessary. the ST purportedly was to be about the new characters primarily and Rian fucked that up by wasting our time with a movie all about the anti myth of Luke Skywalker. it was the longest SW movie yet it brings so little to the table for Rey, the lead character. the middle entry should have at least 3 new planets, here we only have 2, and they are Crait and Canto Bight, so basically Ireland and Italy are the new planets. and Ach-Too is even a planet from the last movie, he just used what JJ had already done. they don't even explore the planet or go to jungles or anything, they just stay on the same cliffside all movie. is this fantasy? what a waste of fucking time.

you look at the other middle entries, they brought so much. AOTC had the Blade Runner chase of Coruscant, the futuristic clone planet Kamino, the Colosseum on classic sci fi pulp planet Geonosis inspired by 1961's Mysterious Island, Jango Fett & Clone Army, Count Dooku (bringing film legend Christopher Lee into the series as new Sith Lord). ESB had Dagobah, Yoda, Hoth, AT-ATs, force cave, force pull/telekenisis, Cloud City. the new locations are just backdrops, the characters rarely interact with the flat plains of Crait, where physical concerns like temperature or distance are irrelevant. it may as well be a studio floor. just a flat plain w an image of mountains in the background to look dramatic.

they are backdrops. Hoth was dangerous, it impacted the story. Dagobah swallowed Luke's X-Wing, it trapped him there, influenced his decisions. Cloud City is a many layered place where our heroes spend a lot of time, it had bright and cheery areas, it also has the hellishly lit industrial section where our heroes are tortured and mutilated. the new films, the locations have nothing to do with our characters. they are in the water, it doesn't matter. Kylo walks through a wave that should knock him over. Crait is just a blue screen CGI splash screen. one reason TFA works so well is that Rey is actually interacting w her environment, sliding down the hills, spelunking and exploring the ruins. this is what fantasy sci fi is all about. not so much interpersonal politics. IMO main reason the new ones have failed. they lost the sense of fun and adventure. ROS at least tries for that. in fact i like the desert planet stuff w the quicksand cos it is so old school pulp adventure, them getting trapped by the environment.
 
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