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Statistics on suspects killed during arrest

Xdrive05

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So can someone explain why it is taboo to even discuss these statistics? If you got all of your news from the main stream media you would never even know this. The only way I have seen this topic allowed to be discussed is if you qualify everything you say as if you’re having some religious debate and you don’t want to offend the devout.

FWIW, hopefully policing reforms come out of this situation that will benefit all of us, even if we have to get there by way making this a race issue first and foremost, just to get people worked up.
 
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Zefah

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Just posted these tweets by EviLore EviLore on gamefaqs and it was promptly removed 10 minutes later with a Warning due to- and I quote-

"Posting offensive content is not permitted on GameFAQs. This includes linking to or posting content containing sexually explicit material, promoting the sexualization of minors, explicitly promoting terrorism or hate speech, and images or video of real-world violence."

I disputed the moderation with "These are just statistics."

I will be sure to post the result of the dispute.
Statistics are hate speech. If you don't parrot the narrative, you are a bigot.
 

undrtakr900

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The difference is that when cops kill whites they go to prison. When cops kill blacks they get administrative leave (aka "paid vacation").

People are protesting the LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY when the victim is black, not the murder itself.
 

cryptoadam

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What's the definition of "violent crime"? Is it this: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/topic-pages/violent-crime ?

If that's the case these statistics are misleading. Floyd's murder wouldn't fit the definition at all and wouldn't enter this statistic. Neither would the murder in Fergusson nor most of police incidents lethal or not. The protest is about excessive force for any crime, especially small crimes like drug possession or counterfeit bill where the numbers are potentially much more skewered.
So what do they want ?

And what does all the looting and violence have to do with these protest?

Whats the goal of them ?
 

Zefah

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The difference is that when cops kill whites they go to prison. When cops kill blacks they get administrative leave (aka "paid vacation").

People are protesting the LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY when the victim is black, not the murder itself.
I don't think this is true, but I'm open to convincing.

I'm pretty sure cops are almost never convicted for use of violent force and we know they use it on white people more than on other races in terms of sheer numbers.

Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not saying that there isn't a general lack of accountability or that it isn't worse when it comes to black killings.

Still, if that is what is being protested, it makes little sense in this case considering the relatively swift action that was taken against the offending officer.
 
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-Arcadia-

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So can someone explain why it is taboo to even discuss these statistics? If you got all of your news from the main stream media you would never even know this.
Second sentence answers the first. Ideologues don’t want you to know, and purposely wormed into power structures from Reddit all the way to mainstream news itself, to prevent that.

Modern leftism collapses into a logical fallacy if you even breathe on it. Therefore, it has to rely on exterminating all other alternatives of thought, making them punishable, and keeping people in ignorance, or too afraid to speak up.
 

autoduelist

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None of the statistics actually matter. What matters is the American black population views their racial identity as a primary, collective identity. They are a community. When one of their community is killed unjustly, it's like an attack on their whole community. Almost all American white people don't view their race as their primary identity. When a white person is killed unjustly, we don't rally together and view it as an attack on our collective racial group. Facts don't matter in this case, because it's not about facts.



Links: Pew Research
The far left identitarians keep screeching about the increase in white supremacy... but don't realize they are talking about themselves. They are the ones telling black people that no matter what they do, the system won't let them succeed. They are the ones supplying bricks ands gasoline to convert protestors to looters. Antifa are the ones screaming the n word at black cops, alongside a host of other racial slurs. They are the ones telling white people that they are special, that they have priviledge, and that minorities need special consideration just to compete.

The rich white liberal saviors are just as bad. Karens are the new cuck male feminist, except they're pale white Black Panthers or something. And just like male feminists are the absolute worst, so is this new racism.

All of these identitarians are setting race relations back decades. And it's only going to continue to get worse as more people become racially 'aware'.
 

autoduelist

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Why not focusing on reducing crime rates among blacks instead? What are police supposed to do, not arrest people if they are taking dangerous combinations of drugs? Floyd was a smoker with pre-existing heart conditions that were both drunk and on fentanyl, fentanyl can easily stop you from breathing, Unless something more comes out, George Floyd's self-destructive drug use killed George Floyd.
I listened to a recent debate between Actual Justice Warrior and Vaush [far left socialist] on youtube recently.

When they were talking about policing, Vaush brought up disparity for weed arrests. AJW pointed out that is generally a side effect of higher policing due to other issues, like homicide. That is, if you need to police a community more due to homicide, you end up also catching more lower level crimes as well.

Vaush literally argued this is racist, and that all areas must be policed exactly equally to avoid racial disparity. That is, if high homicide areas get less police, the homicides in that area will go down and equalize over time with the low crime areas.

That debate was like 2 and a half hours long, and this wasn't even the dumbest thing Vaush said. Point is, how do we implement any sort of actual solution when the far left has stolen the banner of 'racial justice' and then deletes gang databases, reduces policing, decriminalizes shoplifting, etc.

Same as burning that Target down. The argument is that Target was racist because it had experimental anti-theft programs in a low income area. When activists are that backwards, where they see only racism, and ignore the fact that Target actually doing outreach and creating jobs and commerce in a depressed area is good for that area, we have a problem.

The left holds back minorities, in words and action. Just because they claim the moral high ground doesn't mean they have it.
 
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monegames

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I listened to a recent debate between Actual Justice Warrior and Vaush [far left socialist] on youtube recently.

When they were talking about policing, Vaush brought up disparity for weed arrests. AJW pointed out that is generally a side effect of higher policing due to other issues, like homicide. That is, if you need to police a community more due to homicide, you end up also catching more lower level crimes as well.

Vaush literally argued this is racist, and that all areas must be policed exactly equally to avoid racial disparity. That is, if high homicide areas get less police, the homicides in that area will go down and equalize over time with the low crime areas.

That debate was like 2 and a half hours long, and this wasn't even the dumbest thing Vaush said. Point is, how do we implement any sort of actual solution when the far left has stolen the banner of 'racial justice' and then deletes gang databases, reduces policing, decriminalizes shoplifting, etc.

Same as burning that Target down. The argument is that Target was racist because it had experimental anti-theft programs in a low income area. When activists are that backwards, where they see only racism, and ignore the fact that Target actually doing outreach and creating jobs and commerce in a depressed area is good for that area, we have a problem.

The left holds back minorities, in words and action. Just because they claim the moral high ground doesn't mean they have it.
The real problem isn't the leftists. Why does the black community agree with things any one can see holds them back? Even during segregation this was not the case. The black community leaders pushed for individualism, content of character, to dismantle collectivism, white power. What changed?
 

autoduelist

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The real problem isn't the leftists. Why does the black community agree with things any one can see holds them back? Even during segregation this was not the case. The black community leaders pushed for individualism, content of character, to dismantle collectivism, white power. What changed?
The Democrats offered economic incentives to first destroy the black family and then keep blacks dependent on the State teet. This happens in a variety of ways - for example, the more you get on welfare, the harder it is to get a job that pays enough more than said welfare to justify leaving the program. Especially when we take into consideration all the other issues that the destroyed family caused [boys without strong role models, etc., gangs, drug economy in a plighted community]. And then they painted anyone against these programs as racist. Then we have a media that celebrates disrespecting women, drinking lean, etc. Destruction of the educational system which hurts families which can't supplement at home most. Other oddities, like trying to normalize Ebonics without any sort of recognition that in doing so it could hold them back in the job market. Or getting bright kids from these communities into particularly hard schools through affirmative action programs where they do poorly, often dropping out, when they may have likely excelled at a school they would have gotten into normally.

The left is absolutely correct that there is a strong downward pressure on lower income black communities. They just leave out the part about them creating that problem, and instead want more taxation to create even more failed programs.

Note these issues aren't limited to just black communites. The same cycle is occurring to poor hispanic and white communities as well, though these are decades behind in the fatherlessness cycle. And it's not just a racial issue. That is, the destruction of the nuclear family seems to also be a goal of feminism, which falls right in line with creating poverty instead of wealth. Same with abortion - more black babies are aborted in NYC than born. The left calls this women's rights, and wants to extend free coverage to make it even more accessible. I think a better term may be the left is dabbling in eugenics and genocidal tactics, but hey, what do i know.

You are correct though, it wasn't always this way. Before all these programs started, even coming right out of slavery, black families were strong. Religion was strong. In 1950, something like 17 percent of black children lived in fatherless homes. Now it's over 70% and rising fast. And in case anyone hasn't noticed the sheer amount of liberal media propaganda emasculating the black male over the past years, it's worth paying attention to [granted, they already emasculated white males].

Note that I am not saying Republicans are perfect on race issues. They aren't. But the fundamental principles of rugged individualism, work ethic, and family values than run through general conservatism result in strong families regardless of the color of your skin.
 
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Pumpkin Seeds

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My entire fear at this point is that the public handling of this is sowing the seeds of backlash. They have heavily racialized the whole thing, spread the guilt on to the entire country and expect nods in return. They might not get nods. They might get fists.
 
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Somnium

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The sheer amount of virtue signaling I'm seeing on my social media feeds is making my head spin.

The protest is about excessive force for any crime, especially small crimes like drug possession or counterfeit bill where the numbers are potentially much more skewered.

Just posted these tweets by EviLore EviLore on gamefaqs and it was promptly removed 10 minutes later with a Warning due to- and I quote-

"Posting offensive content is not permitted on GameFAQs. This includes linking to or posting content containing sexually explicit material, promoting the sexualization of minors, explicitly promoting terrorism or hate speech, and images or video of real-world violence."

I disputed the moderation with "These are just statistics."

I will be sure to post the result of the dispute.
Imagine claiming to care about police brutality and injustice, then deleting factual data about white victims and flagging it as "offensive content" lol
 
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Ayoli

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Does he also mention the numbers relative to the overall population? If you stack up total amount of whites vs minorities you will see that there's a relatively higher number of police aggressions committed against minorities.

Or does that not fit his narrative?
 

-Arcadia-

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Does he also mention the numbers relative to the overall population? If you stack up total amount of whites vs minorities you will see that there's a relatively higher number of police aggressions committed against minorities.

Or does that not fit his narrative?
Think the point is that in a 10,000 sample size, to offset the population percentage difference, whites are actually more at danger of being killed in an arrest. That addresses a specific issue that’s under discussion at the moment.

What you’re talking about is a separate issue. Calm down and sort out your narrative.
 

Super Mario

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silly me, that time I was assaulted by some black kids I should have thanked them for allowing them to correct the system by beating some kid at the library.
Your priviledge was being checked against the oppression of those who can't read at your level due to poor funding of their schools in favor of tax cuts for wealthy whites. Am I doing it right?

The difference is that when cops kill whites they go to prison. When cops kill blacks they get administrative leave (aka "paid vacation").

People are protesting the LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY when the victim is black, not the murder itself.
How much proof of this do you have? I can definitely show you far more officers taken to court because of the media hive-mind forcing their hand. In the end, a jury of their peers finding them innocent.

Note that I am not saying Republicans are perfect on race issues. They aren't. But the fundamental principles of rugged individualism, work ethic, and family values than run through general conservatism result in strong families regardless of the color of your skin.
I wonder how many Republican black people end up being "hunted down"
 

Ayoli

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Think the point is that in a 10,000 sample size, to offset the population percentage difference, whites are actually more at danger of being killed in an arrest. That addresses a specific issue that’s under discussion at the moment.

What you’re talking about is a separate issue. Calm down and sort out your narrative.
I'm calm?

Or is "calm down" a euphamism for "shut up"?
 

Somnium

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I listened to a recent debate between Actual Justice Warrior and Vaush [far left socialist] on youtube recently.
I watched that as well lol. Vaush is such a bad faith debater, dude made so many laughably absurd points and his analogies were ridiculous.
His excuse for black Americans committing felonies at a higher rate due to higher lead exposure was especially egregious.
 
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SaucyJack

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Does he also mention the numbers relative to the overall population? If you stack up total amount of whites vs minorities you will see that there's a relatively higher number of police aggressions committed against minorities.

Or does that not fit his narrative?
It's a sad but true fact that each racial group in society does not commit crimes in the same proportion. There are many reasons for this and that is a whole other debate.

The stats for deaths in proportion to police engagements show that your more likely to die if you're white.

An interesting stat - source WaPo searchable database - is that the number of people killed by police, and in particular black people killed by police is lower in the last 3 years than it was in the previous 3 years (the last 3 of the Obama presidency).
 
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Arimer

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This is the stuff i've been interested in seeing. They claim its a systemic problem but how do they know that without knowing the numbers. How many cops in the US are ther? How many contacts with the public do they make per day? What percentage of those leads to violence towards the cop vs from the cop. etc etc etc.

If you're going to make the claim that something is "systemic" you should be able to provide the information to prove it.
 

Durask

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The difference is that when cops kill whites they go to prison. When cops kill blacks they get administrative leave (aka "paid vacation").
Do you have proof of that? Any numbers to back up your claims?

Edit: simple googling will tell you that they do NOT go to prison.
 
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Durask

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I figure I will post link to the twitter of the guy I am following who does very good stats analysis.


To be completely frank, while I DO sympathize with the Floyd family, I do NOT sympathize (which is not to say I think they shouldn't be allowed to protest) with the protestors (whether violent or non-violent), at least insofar as they think this is ALL about 'systemic racism' and 'privilege'. At the same time, I do UNDERSTAND the protestors and don't hold entirely blame them. They've been fed a lot of lies and bad information over the past decades. The media helped to promote the narrative and the worldviews that motivate such people. It has encouraged people to view complicated issues entirely through the lens of race.

It has encouraged people to view or stereotype all white people--a population with immense internal diversity, in terms of ancestry, experiences and outcomes--as privileged oppressors or 'Karens'.

It has encouraged people to think 'color' is the most important attribute of other human beings, and has thus divided the world between people who 'have color' and people that don't.

It has fed the perception that 'oppression' is rampant and confronts 'marginalized groups' at every street corner.

It's not clear the extent that people appreciate how beholden their perceptions of reality are to the media. Whatever the case, there is a very strong correlation (r=0.9) between such coverage and racial attitudes.

A granger test even *suggests* a causal relationship (i.e. media trends predict shifts in racial attitudes, but racial attitudes don't predict shifts in media coverage).
 

MrA

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Does he also mention the numbers relative to the overall population? If you stack up total amount of whites vs minorities you will see that there's a relatively higher number of police aggressions committed against minorities.

Or does that not fit his narrative?
Im glad you ignore asians because theyre inconvenient and there are more violent crime committed by otherminorities, maybe that has something to with it. Bring down crime and police interactions will decrease, but I guess personal responsibility might be a anathema to you.
 
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Despite being killed at a higher rate:
No marches for white Americans killed
No hashtags
No console reveals canceled
No murals
No candle light vigils
No protests
Rarely any main stream media coverage
The false narrative that blacks Americans are constantly in fear for their lives of being shot by police the minute they step outside needs to stop.
Not only this, but the media actively supresses any incident of a white person being a victim of violence/discrimination so they can keep racial tensions at an all time high.
 
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None of the statistics actually matter. What matters is the American black population views their racial identity as a primary, collective identity. They are a community. When one of their community is killed unjustly, it's like an attack on their whole community. Almost all American white people don't view their race as their primary identity. When a white person is killed unjustly, we don't rally together and view it as an attack on our collective racial group. Facts don't matter in this case, because it's not about facts.



Links: Pew Research
i don’t think you can ever get past that because of slavery similar to the Jews with the Holocaust
 

Boss Mog

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The problem is killing black people who don't commit violent crime.

Yeah... so basically these aren't real stats at all. Just model-based simulation that has been calculated... well you don't need to know how, but just trust us. The best scientists in the world made model-based simulations for Covid and plenty of them were wrong. Unless I know exactly how the models were created and what was taken into account and what wasn't, it's nothing more than made-up useless junk to me.
 
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Thabass

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One of the biggest reasons it doesn't seem this way is because we see it video taped all the time now when a black person is harassed by the police. But, if this protest has taught me anything is that the cops are willing to be this way to anyone. Look at them going after journalists and peaceful protesters.
 
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One of the biggest reasons it doesn't seem this way is because we see it video taped all the time now when a black person is harassed by the police. But, if this protest has taught me anything is that the cops are willing to be this way to anyone. Look at them going after journalists and peaceful protesters.
Just saw the video of the elderly guy approaching the cops and then getting shoved and cracking his head on the ground. You'd think the blood coming out of his ears would be enough to have them take pause but apparently not.
 

Thabass

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Just saw the video of the elderly guy approaching the cops and then getting shoved and cracking his head on the ground. You'd think the blood coming out of his ears would be enough to have them take pause but apparently not.
There was a guy in a wheel chair that got hit with a rubber bullet and you vaguely see the blood gushing from his left eye. You can't tell me the police aren't a problem after seeing this shit.

For clarity: I'm not saying anyone this thread has said the above. Just in general.
 
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spandexmonkey

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From my perspective I think this is the biggest tragedy of the Black Lives Matter movement. If they had started off as Our Lives Matter it could have been inclusive from the get go. The stats would have been in their favor, cops are killing to many people. Instead they made it a specific race issue rather than a policy issue we could all agree on and now we're all more divided than ever.
Rioters, fires, dead bodies, making people get on their knees like a fucking cult. No thank you.
 
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oagboghi2

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I listened to a recent debate between Actual Justice Warrior and Vaush [far left socialist] on youtube recently.

When they were talking about policing, Vaush brought up disparity for weed arrests. AJW pointed out that is generally a side effect of higher policing due to other issues, like homicide. That is, if you need to police a community more due to homicide, you end up also catching more lower level crimes as well.

Vaush literally argued this is racist, and that all areas must be policed exactly equally to avoid racial disparity. That is, if high homicide areas get less police, the homicides in that area will go down and equalize over time with the low crime areas.

That debate was like 2 and a half hours long, and this wasn't even the dumbest thing Vaush said. Point is, how do we implement any sort of actual solution when the far left has stolen the banner of 'racial justice' and then deletes gang databases, reduces policing, decriminalizes shoplifting, etc.

Same as burning that Target down. The argument is that Target was racist because it had experimental anti-theft programs in a low income area. When activists are that backwards, where they see only racism, and ignore the fact that Target actually doing outreach and creating jobs and commerce in a depressed area is good for that area, we have a problem.

The left holds back minorities, in words and action. Just because they claim the moral high ground doesn't mean they have it.
Wait, I am confused. Is he arguing that if police arrest less people who committed homicide in a region, the number of homicides will decrease.

By that logic, just make murder legal.
 
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KingT731

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You can skew the statistics of anything in a way that doesn't seem bad. All you have to do is nitpick what is actually counted. How is it that most of my friends have experienced some form of police brutality and yet the people here would tell you it's not actually a problem....just because it isn't YOU doesn't mean it isn't real.
 

monegames

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You can skew the statistics of anything in a way that doesn't seem bad. All you have to do is nitpick what is actually counted. How is it that most of my friends have experienced some form of police brutality and yet the people here would tell you it's not actually a problem....just because it isn't YOU doesn't mean it isn't real.
Anecdotes and how they work. I have never experienced any and neither have any friends I know. See my anecdotal evidence means nothing, and neither does your. No one said it wasn't real. Everyone agrees it happens. We disagree its a racial problem. To prove its a racial problem you have to use more than anecdotes.

Sure you can get the numbers to say what you want. I've said that about school shootings and mass shootings since the whole its only white men narrative popped up. Sure its only white men when you exclude gang violence, and targeted attacks on fanily /relationships.

What is being excluded with the numbers in the OP though?
 

Cybrwzrd

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There was a guy in a wheel chair that got hit with a rubber bullet and you vaguely see the blood gushing from his left eye. You can't tell me the police aren't a problem after seeing this shit.

For clarity: I'm not saying anyone this thread has said the above. Just in general.
I don't know the context of why he was hit with a rubber bullet. Collateral damage is also a consequence of rioting/fighting in urban areas. Don't escalate fights with cops in the middle of downtown and innocent won't be injured.
 
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B-universe

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The difference is that when cops kill whites they go to prison. When cops kill blacks they get administrative leave (aka "paid vacation").

People are protesting the LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY when the victim is black, not the murder itself.
If Lack of Accountability were the reason sustaining the protests then why would most have kept silent up until now and decided to march on the occasion of what the County Attorney described as the fastest ever they've charged a police officer and especially after the other three officers have now been charged as well?

You've been asked to present evidence for the rest and are yet to do it. I patiently await those stats.

You can skew the statistics of anything in a way that doesn't seem bad. All you have to do is nitpick what is actually counted. How is it that most of my friends have experienced some form of police brutality and yet the people here would tell you it's not actually a problem....just because it isn't YOU doesn't mean it isn't real.
Yeah, you seem to know nothing about statistics, peer review, that two left-wing newspapers, The Guardian and The Washington Post, both are keeping tabs on fatalities, seem to know nothing about sample size, anecdotal evidence, confirmation bias, self-reporting, etc.

How is it that most of my friends have experienced some form of forum unsubstantiated politically-motivated bushtit and yet you would tell the thread it's not actually a problem?

Just because YOU say so doesn't mean it is real.
 
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cryptoadam

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One of the biggest reasons it doesn't seem this way is because we see it video taped all the time now when a black person is harassed by the police. But, if this protest has taught me anything is that the cops are willing to be this way to anyone. Look at them going after journalists and peaceful protesters.
Might as well say all the video of this week of looting, rioting, murders from black people means that all black people are murderes and criminals. Its great to stereotype an entire group. I mean look at these blacks going after journalists and peaceful law abiding citizens.

I saw the videos don't show me facts or numbers, just use my angry emotions that I have been programmed with to rage.

So we gonna defund black people now? Clearly the videos show me they are all violent criminals right? If these riots have taught me anything its that black people are willing to be this way to anyone. ABAB.

Sounds damn right stupid and racist no?
 
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JordanN

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The Democrats are fighting a losing battle. Actually, all liberals around the world are.

They are all lying to you when they refuse to present statistics as adjusted for crime rate.

But not only that, there are other hidden caveats they've deliberately refused to talk about on the subject of "racism".

For example, it was always a famous talking point for them to say that the justice system sentences black people harder for no other reason but skin color, but then they refuse to show you videos where we see convicts laughing, smirking or threatening the victims of said crime.


If people want to have a serious discussion on what is racism or not, you need to present all the evidence instead of manipulating it.
 

KingT731

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Anecdotes and how they work. I have never experienced any and neither have any friends I know. See my anecdotal evidence means nothing, and neither does your. No one said it wasn't real. Everyone agrees it happens. We disagree its a racial problem. To prove its a racial problem you have to use more than anecdotes.

Sure you can get the numbers to say what you want. I've said that about school shootings and mass shootings since the whole its only white men narrative popped up. Sure its only white men when you exclude gang violence, and targeted attacks on fanily /relationships.

What is being excluded with the numbers in the OP though?
I didn't say it WAS a racial problem. I'm on the side of it being a Law Enforcement problem. Also if you or your friends never have experienced it then GREAT for you guys. I'm saying if you boil the statistics down purely to being killed you are removing a lot of what the issue (police brutality) entails.

Yeah, you seem to know nothing about statistics, peer review, that two left-wing newspapers, The Guardian and The Washington Post, both are keeping tabs on fatalities, seem to know nothing about sample size, anecdotal evidence, confirmation bias, self-reporting, etc.

How is it that most of my friends have experienced some form of a forum unsubstantiated politically-motivated bushtit and yet you would tell the thread it's not actually a problem?

Just because YOU say so doesn't mean it is real.
I'm completely aware of how this shit works and I know as well as you should know that no statistic is 100% correct especially when taking into account the sample size and population disparity. You, rather being facetious or not, saying that if "I say it's real that doesn't mean it is" would be arguing the point of police brutality not actually being a thing.



Why is there always a "But.." when it comes to this shit?
 
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