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[Chariot]

I mean, hell, the RPS article already showed possibilities thst sounded like Warhammer 40k, you probably coukd accidently get the arkward situation of the Empire of Man in 40k, but imaging an actual mod where you start during 40k or a bit before the Horus Heresy begins. With the giant Empire of Man and all other factiona established. With random events like the Golden Chair starting to fail and ultimately failing for real, planets randomly turning chaos and Tyranid incursions.

I am not even that exites for a possible Total Warhammer 40k anynore. Paradox games are the shit and CK II with IaF mod remains the best Game of Thrones game ever made. If Stellaris is what Paradox aspires it to be, it's could be the definite large scale 40k game. And let's not forget all the other space based universes that could benefit from the base of this game.

I am so excited I am in the sad state whete I would pre-order in a heartbeat.

 

[hooijdonk17]

It would take all of 2.5 seconds before GW issued a C&D letter.

 

[Doczu]

It would take all of 2.5 seconds before GW issued a C&D letter.

For a free mod?

 

[hooijdonk17]

For a free mod?

They've tryied bullying people with lawsuitsfor writing a book called Space Marine that had nothing to do with 40K. They have literally one of the shittiest Intellectual Property Policies in gaming. They will probably see it as a product competing with their own video game licensing deals and sue it. Games Workshop are very anal about these things.

 

[archnemesis]

For a free mod?

Yes. There are several other Warhammer games that they want people to play instead, and pay for.

 

[Chariot]

They've tryied bullying people with lawsuitsfor writing a book called Space Marine that had nothing to do with 40K. They have literally one of the shittiest Intellectual Property Policies in gaming. They will probably see it as a product competing with their own video game licensing deals and sue it. Games Workshop are very anal about these things.

Such a shit. They don't even have a comparable game planned. The next best thing is Total Warhammer which is set in a whole different setting and in a different strategy genre.

 

[Doczu]

They've tryied bullying people with lawsuitsfor writing a book called Space Marine that had nothing to do with 40K. They have literally one of the shittiest Intellectual Property Policies in gaming. They will probably see it as a product competing with their own video game licensing deals and sue it. Games Workshop are very anal about these things.

Yes. There are several other Warhammer games that they want people to play instead, and pay for.

Wow, that's... shitty from them.

 

[archnemesis]

Wow, that's... shitty from them.

They are no different from other large companies. You are not going to see free mods with Star Wars or Disney Princesses either.

 

[Cameron122]

I hope so. Once Stellaris gets the modding community going, I fear for my social life. Gonna stage Star Trek vs. Star Wars battles with Mobile Suits

 

[Chariot]

They are no different from other large companies. You are not going to see free mods with Star Wars or Disney Princesses either.

Pretty sure I've seen some Star Wars mods. And if you look into mods for strategy games you will find big mods for big franchises like Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones. Fanwork can fill gaps and keep the fans attached to the franchise.

 

[Sijil]

Actually there are plenty of 40K mod out there, Sins of Solar Empire has one, Homeworld 2, Half Life 2, Unreal Tournament 2004, C&C Generals etc...etc... all of them without being stopped by GW.

GW has an issue with modding its own published games post DOW1, which was heavily modded, I believe they fear it would compete with DLC's. In DOW 1 modders managed to make the TAU playable well before the Dark Crusade expansion got released for example.

Hence DOW 2 had no mod support, neither will Total War Warhammer. I think as long as you're modding non GW games you'll be fine.

 

[hooijdonk17]

Actually there are plenty of 40K mod out there, Sins of Solar Empire has one, Homeworld 2, Half Life 2, Unreal Tournament 2004, C&C Generals etc...etc... all of them without being stopped by GW.

GW has an issue with modding its own published games post DOW1, which was heavily modded, I believe they fear it would compete with DLC's. In DOW 1 modders managed to make the TAU playable well before the Dark Crusade expansion got released for example.

Hence DOW 2 had no mod support, neither will Total War Warhammer. I think as long as you're modding non GW games you'll be fine.

The games you name for being modded for 40K are all archaic and date to long before GW started their licensing business. Any contemporary game mod that would directly compete with GW's Strategy (Total War, Dawn of War, etc.) or Action (Space Marine, Blood Bowl, etc.) or Mobile games would get sued in a heartbeat, trust me.

DOW2 can actually be modded and Elite mod has added the Grey Knights faction as well as lots of new units to all factions..

 

[Chariot]

Actually there are plenty of 40K mod out there, Sins of Solar Empire has one, Homeworld 2, Half Life 2, Unreal Tournament 2004, C&C Generals etc...etc... all of them without being stopped by GW.

GW has an issue with modding its own published games post DOW1, which was heavily modded, I believe they fear it would compete with DLC's. In DOW 1 modders managed to make the TAU playable well before the Dark Crusade expansion got released for example.

Hence DOW 2 had no mod support, neither will Total War Warhammer. I think as long as you're modding non GW games you'll be fine.

I hope it's as you say.

But that's really a stupid stance. Paradox games have massive amounts of DLCs and Steam Workshop support. The DLC sell anyways and players enjoy them and mods. As long as your DLCs are worthwhile they'll be bought.

 

[bjaelke]

They are no different from other large companies. You are not going to see free mods with Star Wars or Disney Princesses either.

HBO has been in touch with Paradox, Wester says, but only to discuss the permissions involved in openly using the GoT name.

"They're not [interested in] shutting it down," Wester said. "They're just a bit ... wary about us monetizing it, or if we're marketing it. It was after the Kotaku article [about the mod]."#

[...]

Fans can still play the mod, which is in active development. Paradox just can't financially benefit from it.

HBO has talked to the Crusader Kings 2 team

 

[Sijil]

DOW2 can actually be modded and Elite mod has added the Grey Knights faction as well as lots of new units to all factions..

They even managed to put the Imperial Guards before Relic did too, but all of those mods are without official mod tools or SDK's as opposed to what Relic did with DOW 1. Most of the tools used for DOW 2 modding are community made and not officially supported according to what I've learned at Relicnews forums, which is why most DOW 2 mods are inferior to DOW 1 mods in scope.

 

[Doczu]

They are no different from other large companies. You are not going to see free mods with Star Wars or Disney Princesses either.

Well i played a Star Wars mod for Homeworld 2, but that might have been the case that it was before Disney was in charge.

 

[archnemesis]

HBO has talked to the Crusader Kings 2 team

If there were better Game of Thrones games out there they would be more interested in shutting out competitors. Only Telltale's adventure series has received praise from reviewers and gamers alike.

Well i played a Star Wars mod for Homeworld 2, but that might have been the case that it was before Disney was in charge.

It might fly under the radar, but if anyone suspects that it will harm the brand or steer customers away from buying the company's own products then they are not going to allow it.

 

[SparkTR]

Honestly I love it if Paradox does some licensed stuff. GoT Crusader Kings. 40K Stelleria. Would bring in tons of money.

 

[archnemesis]

Absolutely! I would definitely pay for well-made mods with my favorite franchises.

 

[hooijdonk17]

Absolutely! I would definitely pay for well-made mods with my favorite franchises.

Paradox's grand strategy games are niche enough as they are; a license would likely never recoup its costs as a DLC for Paradox games..

 

[archnemesis]

It depends on the license model. Paying for an expensive license would be a risky move, but they could always ask the property holder if they would be willing to split the revenue instead.

 

[Nzyme32]

Paradox's grand strategy games are niche enough as they are; a license would likely never recoup its costs as a DLC for Paradox games..

Mods don't need a licence, so this is a pointless argument.

Furthermore, as far as Paradox's Grand Strategy games being a niche, lets look at some sales numbers:

Crusader Kings 2 - 1.14 Million
Europa Universalis 4 - 740,000

Quite the niche

 

[hooijdonk17]

Mods don't need a licence, so this is a pointless argument.

Furthermore, as far as Paradox's Grand Strategy games being a niche, lets look at some sales numbers:

Crusader Kings 2 - 1.14 Million
Europa Universalis 4 - 740,000

Quite the niche

Bolded by me; that part is completely wrong.

As for my niche argument: How much you sell is not a determinant of whether you are selling to a niche market or not. Paradox's games are not selling to the general gaming audiance, they are selling to a niche. People playing GTA will not go out and buy EU4 to play it. You can be very successful in a niche market and move a lot of copies, but that doesn't change the fact that your market is limited. And you will be licensing 40K to appeal to a subset of an already niche market - would it make money? Not so sure. A Space Marine sequel would probably destroy any Paradox 40K game because it would have much better general appeal.

But I digress.

 

[Nzyme32]

Bolded by me; that part is completely wrong.

Right, so this is why I can play with Metroid character models in a whole bunch of source mods, or why there are Mario mods for Minecraft.

As long as the mod is free, people can do whatever they want until a cease and desist appears - which more often than not is rare.

 

[hooijdonk17]

Right, so this is why I can play with Metroid character models in a whole bunch of source mods, or why there are Mario mods for Minecraft.

As long as the mod is free, people can do whatever they want until a cease and desist appears - which more often than not is rare.

This is not true, the license holder has every right to make the modders stop because they own the rights to Mario simply by claiming that his use tarnishes the property's value. That they do not choose to do so is irrelevant.

Nitendo's has done this in the past, by the way: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/nintendo-forces-takedown-of-super-mario-64-hd-brow/1100-6426295/

And then there are these examples:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/01/19/blizzard-vs-the-fan-made-starcraft-mmo/

http://kotaku.com/5939383/gorgeous-...fter-cease--desist-order-from-warner-brothers

http://www.bsimracing.com/fia-sends-out-cease-and-desist-letter-to-modding-teams/

http://www.destructoid.com/square-enix-shuts-down-chrono-fan-game-crimson-echoes-131702.phtml

etc. etc.

 

[Nzyme32]

Paradox's games are not selling to the general gaming audiance, they are selling to a niche. People playing GTA will not go out and buy EU4 to play it. You can be very successful in a niche market and move a lot of copies, but that doesn't change the fact that your market is limited. And you will be licensing 40K to appeal to a subset of an already niche market - would it make money? Not so sure. A Space Marine sequel would probably destroy any Paradox 40K game because it would have much better general appeal.

But I digress.

Dawn of War 2: 2,3m units
Space Marine:

Again this is nonsense. In the PC gaming market, grand strategy is not well described as a niche when selling in the millions - something many other genres do not even come close to, and something the more "popular" genres are accustomed to. The "GTA" argument is poor at best when discussing PC games.

And again a mod is not getting sold, it needs no licence, it doesn't need to "make money", it doesn't have to serve a particular sizeable group of people at all. It just needs interested parties in creating such a mod

This is not true, the license holder has every right to make the modders stop because they own the rights to Mario simply by claiming that his use tarnishes the property's value. That they do not choose to do so is irrelevant.

Nitendo's has done this in the past, by the way: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/nintendo-forces-takedown-of-super-mario-64-hd-brow/1100-6426295/

And then there are these examples:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/01/19/blizzard-vs-the-fan-made-starcraft-mmo/

http://kotaku.com/5939383/gorgeous-...fter-cease--desist-order-from-warner-brothers

http://www.bsimracing.com/fia-sends-out-cease-and-desist-letter-to-modding-teams/

http://www.destructoid.com/square-enix-shuts-down-chrono-fan-game-crimson-echoes-131702.phtml

etc. etc.

Congrats, no read my previous post

Cease and desists in the grand scheme of things are rare. If someone tries to make a rather massive WH mod, indeed it may get a cease and desist, but in most situations it will be under the radar and remain in the Steam Workshop or wherever else. No licence is required for someone to work on making a free mod because people just like creating things they are fans of or that they find fun to do. They don't need to worry about "would it make enough money"

 

[Aaron D.]

Honestly I'd rather see what Paradox has to say with their own original content for the game (i.e. vanilla vers.) first before mucking it up with fan-made total conversion mods.

Don't have much love for the 40K universe anyway.

 

[Nzyme32]

Honestly I'd rather see what Paradox has to say with their own original content for the game (i.e. vanilla vers.) first before mucking it up with fan-made total conversion mods.

Don't have much love for the 40K universe anyway.

We know so little about the game as well at this point too. It is extremely promising, and I wouldn't be surprised if many mods for different themes were made to compliment a universe scale grand stratergy

 

[JaseC]

RE: Game Workshop and mods: Tabletop Simulator has dozens of Warhammer-themed mods. I'm sure there are other examples, too.

 

[hooijdonk17]

Again this is nonsense. In the PC gaming market, grand strategy is not well described as a niche when selling in the millions - something many other genres do not even come close to, and something the more "popular" genres are accustomed to. The "GTA" argument is poor at best when discussing PC games.

And again a mod is not getting sold, it needs no licence, it doesn't need to "make money", it doesn't have to serve a particular sizeable group of people at all. It just needs interested parties in creating such a mod



Congrats, no read my previous post

Cease and desists in the grand scheme of things are rare. If someone tries to make a rather massive WH mod, indeed it may get a cease and desist, but in most situations it will be under the radar and remain in the Steam Workshop or wherever else. No licence is required for someone to work on making a free mod because people just like creating things they are fans of or that they find fun to do. They don't need to worry about "would it make enough money"

Actually, you are the one who is not really reading my posts, so I won't bother. As a long time tabletop wargamer I know GW better than you do, so I rest easy knowing any unlicensed mod would get C&D'ed as soon as it became popular.

 

[Nzyme32]

Actually, you are the one who is not really reading my posts, so I won't bother. As a long time tabletop wargamer I know GW better than you do, so I rest easy knowing any unlicensed mod would get C&D'ed as soon as it became popular.

Right, lets not forget that the Warhammer Total War mod is still available and quite popular, and only now we are getting a proper Total War Warhammer game, perhaps maybe even because of it's popularity: http://www.moddb.com/mods/warhammer-total-war

And yes I know very little and care very little for Warhammer. My friends on the other hand, are the complete opposite