Support NeoGAF

[EverydayBeast]

MS has the expertise to have both AAA games and a subscription service in rhythm with the calendar

 

[Woo-Fu]

If people stop buying individual games, quality will go down. Sub services will hurt gaming if/when they become the dominate driver of profits.

Which will create a vacuum(market) that publishers/developers will fill with the quality games you're thinking will go away.

People worried about the end of good games need to understand that most people will spend their money on other forms of entertainment if the bar goes too low. It won't take too many meetings for the bean counters to figure out where the beans went, and more importantly why.

That sort of race to the bottom is what caused the first crash. Here we are playing great games again, though.

 

[Bryank75]

Of course, the business models oppose each other. However, it doesn't mean that you can't have high-quality content on a subscription.

However, it's pretty certain that we will see the death in Single Player one-off games.



Unless that Japnese developer wants to sell in the west they would have to conform to the Subscription type of model that is aggressively coming from the Western companies.

However, it's usually Quantity first then Quality will improve over time.

Why would you shill for that? I mean what do you get out of it?

Are you a paid rep of a corporation or something? I am seriously asking.....

Because nobody will support that. We want our RDR, GTA, DMC, RE, GOW, TLOU and Uncharted games......
None of the games on streaming services will be attractive enough to get people in the door.

There are too many subscriptions with only a fraction of what you can get on one console. If you buy a PlayStation, you can get everything, you get free games every month, your back catalog and the best exclusives you can get.
It blows all the other options away. Streaming and subscription models are terrible and fracture a market that will not grow at the rate these companies want it to.

 

[Bonfires Down]

Nope. Almost all the Game Pass games have reviewed well. You just don’t like indie games.

 

[Bryank75]

Nope. Almost all the Game Pass games have reviewed well. You just don’t like indie games.

Indie games are usually 10 euro or less, free demos was the answer to this before it ever became a question. All these subscriptions are just unsustainable. The only people getting behind it are xbox fanboys who have no good AAA games to get behind and trolls.

 

[BunzLee]

To be fair, I don't have a lot of time to go through games, so the subscription service I find pretty neat. I'm often behind on games, so I can pretty much play something (without having to wait for a sale) and be done with it after. Once the service has no games I'm interested in, I can always drop it.

The 1$ offer for Xbox Unlimited has actually made me turn on my XBOX One after almost two years, now I'm playing Hellblade and Forza 4, and since the PC pass is included, I've downloaded Gears 4 to play there. I'd pay 14 bucks to play a couple of games that I'm interested in. I'm keeping the XBOX Pass for now, as it has a couple of games I'd like to play, and then I might drop it later on for Ubi+ to catch up on some games there.

 

[Kazza]

See for me, I DONT have the time.

I work alot. So a sub for me with a large selection of games I can quickly install and have a blast on is perfect.

I no longer have the time to spend £60 on a game and play it for 200 hours.

This. So much this.

Interesting. I also don't have too much time for gaming recently (probably 10 hours a week max), but I have the opposite reaction to this. Giving me however many dozens of games to play every month is kind of worthless when I don't have time to play them. With my current limited time, I would rather just curate my own list and only buy and play the games I really want to play.

As for whether it will lower the quality of games overall, it's hard to say.

I do wonder what effect it will have on indie games. Unless they are lucky enough to get picked up by one of these big game pass companies, then customers may be much more reluctant to purchase a one off independent game when they already have access to such a stream of new games every month.

 

[Sorne]

Interesting. I also don't have too much time for gaming recently (probably 10 hours a week max), but I have the opposite reaction to this. Giving me however many dozens of games to play every month is kind of worthless when I don't have time to play them. With my current limited time, I would rather just curate my own list and only buy and play the games I really want to play.

I look at it differently. I don't have a permanent subscription going. But whenever a game that I really want to play and have the time, I throw in the $10 for a month, play they game I really wanted and maybe some others too now that I have the deal, and then re-subscribe whenever the next game that I'm really interested in goes on Game Pass. Mind you, there could be 3-6 months in-between each time I subscribe. That's why it's perfect for me.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Well, the thing is that they need some stand out titles to reel people in to the subscription service... Otherwise nobody will care to get it, or even ask for it.

As I grow older I have less time to play videogames, so I approach it like beer/wine, I now get better games as opposed to all the games... Anyway, I'd rather replay a game I love a million times over a game I'm lukewarm about only once.

So no.

 

[mcz117chief]

I don't have the time to take advantage of a subscription, it would be a waste of money in my case, so I just buy a few games I know I will play and don't even consider looking at shovelware.

 

[JoeyWestSide]

Watching Microsoft's acquisition of smaller studios and seeing the games they released and/or announced lately, it seems to me their goal is to push out games as quickly and cheaply as possible and to add those games to GamePass.

While this sounds good in theory, I feel as if it comes at the expense of quality. People naturally expect less when the games are cheaper and many games are being described as "it's fine because its free/included in the monthly fee".

Perhaps this is ideal for those who have more time than money. It feels somewhere between AAA games and free-to-play. Personally, my time is too valuable to waste on B-tier games and I'd rather just have more options to play high-quality games that I can purchase and own.

While options are good, I worry about anything that moves the industry away from the high quality software in favor of cheaper experiences.

Except those studios make the games they want and release it when they're ready...

 

[Acidizer]

See for me, I DONT have the time.

I work alot. So a sub for me with a large selection of games I can quickly install and have a blast on is perfect.

I no longer have the time to spend £60 on a game and play it for 200 hours.

Why not? You don't need to do the 200 hours consecutively... modern games have save functions.

If I find a game I really like, which is pretty rare, I'll rinse it over a period of months. Savour that shit.

You indeed seem like the subscription model's ideal customer - casual user that only consumes what they are fed. I'd rather spend £60 on a game I love and be attached to it for as long as it will give me enjoyment, than sift through a hoard of crap, only really trying them out because they are... there. A bit like PS+

I'm pretty sure I spend as much time on Netflix browsing, attempting to find something that isn't absolute trash, than I do watching.

 

[LostDonkey]

Why not? You don't need to do the 200 hours consecutively... modern games have save functions.

If I find a game I really like, which is pretty rare, I'll rinse it over a period of months. Savour that shit.

You indeed seem like the subscription model's ideal customer - casual user that only consumes what they are fed. I'd rather spend £60 on a game I love and be attached to it for as long as it will give me enjoyment, than sift through a hoard of crap, only really trying them out because they are... there. A bit like PS+

I'm pretty sure I spend as much time on Netflix browsing, attempting to find something that isn't absolute trash, than I do watching.

Because ill play a game for a few hours and then its maybe weeks even sometimes a couple months before I can play again and by that time Ive forgotten the story and the controls and the lore and every thing else...... Its extremely frustrating.

For £4 month I can pop in and out of Forza or Football Manager or GOW whenever I get free time and not be paying £60 a time for games that are left sat on a shelf barely getting played.

Plus when I do actually get time to play I have access to a library of 100 or so games to choose from that I can either install there and then if they're small or set ot going for next time im on.

 

[pr0cs]

There have been a number of games that I had on my steam and other store wish lists that are now on gamepass. This lets me try them without worrying if I like them or not. Already I have tried 3-4 games, put a few mins into them and decided that they're not worth my time.. If I bought them I'd be a lot more disappointed but with gamepass I find that I save myself time not feeling invested in a title because I paid for it.
I have a significant backlog considering I have both consoles, VR and a PC, anything that lets me determine where my time is best spent is worth the cost. Time is the expensive portion, not the $ value of the game.

 

[dorkimoe]

Please god no more subscriptions. Gaming is dead when I have to have 4 subscriptions to play games.

Gamepass is perfect for PC+XBOX, we dont need uplay+ or origin +

 

[Acidizer]

Because ill play a game for a few hours and then its maybe weeks even sometimes a couple months before I can play again and by that time Ive forgotten the story and the controls and the lore and every thing else...... Its extremely frustrating.

Sounds like you got dementia.

 

[Bryank75]

If you're on Xbox and you refuse to try PlayStation for whatever reason... I can see why gamepass would be a good option for you and make things more interesting.

However, nobody else should be paying for a subscription. This is just another way to sell you on DRM, always online, no ownership, forced obsolescence and making you accept low-quality games over high-quality games that cost more to make.

This only diminishes the need for quality games and single player experiences.

It also puts gamers at risk from a litany of anti-consumer actions, such as raising the price of a subscription to access games you bought, gathering of your private information and gathering of trends, denying access to games you own due to too many people wanting to access it at once, internet and network downtime or interruptions and security issues.

If the service ever shuts down, you have no access to your games or save files and if the industry ever has a collapse, there will be no way to play any of the games at all.....

Just like LOOTBOXES, subscriptions are just another way to squeeze money from customers, while investing as little effort and money as possible in new, truly innovative games.

If games companies really wanted you to try their games, they would offer free demos.... not offer their games under a subscription.
Games offered under subscription services do not have the innovation or quality to sell on their own merit, this should be clear... whether they are too old or just uninspired shovelware.

 

[LostDonkey]

Sounds like you got dementia.

No. I spend a lot more time not playing games than I do, so when I do I dont want to ride a horse for 2 hours to get to the next mission or learn 100 different moves which need to be upgraded to progress..... Thats not quality to me.

 

[Acidizer]

Nor to me, sounds like you are throwing up very weak excuses. The games available for purchase are the same games that will be on a subscription model... as in, the EXACT same - that's where they come from.

May as well fire up Candy Crush and be done with it.

 

[LostDonkey]

Nor to me, sounds like you are throwing up very weak excuses. The games available for purchase are the same games that will be on a subscription model... as in, the EXACT same - that's where they come from.

May as well fire up Candy Crush and be done with it.

Excuses for what exactly?

Gamepass is perfect for me. Sorry its not for you but that doesnt mean a blanket statement that it will completely lower the quality of gaming. Im sure you will ignore it and continue to play your games elsewhere.

For people like me who dont want to buy releases at full price and not have the time to play them the monthly sub is great. Even in a year its less than the cost of one game. Hell FH4 is worth the entry fee on its own.

 

[Typhares]

I mean more choice isn't a bad thing, somewhere someone will love a game you hate probably.
In terms of subscriptions it's pretty easy to me: gamepass (for PC at least I am not familiar with xbox) has quantity, quality and good pricing and MS first party is now also a pretty solid offering. If you have an xbox the ultimate thingy seems a nobrainer to me but I'm sticking to PC+PS4+switch combo.
Uplay+: only if you would buy 3 ubisoft games a year it becomes worth it. Personally I haven't finished a ubi game since Rayman origins. I can't handle their formula.
Origin access: the basic isn't bad to catch up on some of the catalog but the rest to me is junk as I am not interested in sports games. Might sub for a month if a new release catch my eye.

Gaming has become a fairly cheap hobby overall, the constraint is really time now. What games will I invest my time in. And that usually ends up being some smaller games that I can finish in 8-10 hours to be honest (katana zero recently, the messenger right now).

 

[Acidizer]

Excuses for what exactly?

Gamepass is perfect for me. Sorry its not for you but that doesnt mean a blanket statement that it will completely lower the quality of gaming. Im sure you will ignore it and continue to play your games elsewhere.

For people like me who dont want to buy releases at full price and not have the time to play them the monthly sub is great. Even in a year its less than the cost of one game. Hell FH4 is worth the entry fee on its own.

So it's just all about paying less, and you aren't really fussed what you play.

This "I have less time to play" I see everywhere for somehow advocating subscription models is total BS.

You seem compelled to force you way through lots of games out of habit or something - but If you have less time to play games you buy less games - it's not rocket science.

It's OK to be a casual, but at least admit it

 

[Bkdk]

Even before this model MS don’t have quality stuff released for this gen at all. At least the studios that they purchased are the ones that will mostly release the genres that I love: open world or crpgs. So it’s a big step up from before. I never care much about halo/gears/sea of thieves/crackdown. Outer worlds, wasteland, Aoe4, flight simulator or even AOE 2 new expansions are the games that i am much more interested in.

 

[LostDonkey]

So it's just all about paying less, and you aren't really fussed what you play.

This "I have less time to play" I see everywhere for somehow advocating subscription models is total BS.

You seem compelled to force you way through lots of games out of habit or something - but If you have less time to play games you buy less games - it's not rocket science.

It's OK to be a casual, but at least admit it

Ive never denied it, have I?

Its not all about paying less no. Its about having a selection of games curated for me that I can choose from with my minimal gaming time these days. Youve said its not for you. Thats fine. Why are you still going on about it like youre offended someone is getting the benefit from gamepass. Its offering a service to people like me who dont have the time nor money to burn any more on gaming. That doesnt mean I have to give up my hobby any more and gives me a foot back on the ladder where I couldnt usually. Thats great news and should be applauded.

 

[Acidizer]

What does it have to do with time though? Does a subscription give you more hours to play or something?! Bizarre.

Curated? Is that the "time saver"? So an algorithm knows better what you want to play than you?

I think this is largely in your head. You just get spoonfed whatever they are promoting that week, if you are fine what that so am I but I don't see the time saving angle AT ALL.

 

[cireza]

With my current limited time, I would rather just curate my own list and only buy and play the games I really want to play.

This is exactly what I do. And I keep the list as small as possible, and actually complete most of my games.

I don't think the plan is to release shitty games on a regular basis, otherwise I will be disappointed.

 

[Roni]

Don't feel like that's a subscription model problem. That's a game industry problem right now.

The corporations are way more concerned with getting people onto the hobby than pleasing the people who have stuck with it for a long time.

There's money in that, so that's the focus.

 

[Bryank75]

Ive never denied it, have I?

Its not all about paying less no. Its about having a selection of games curated for me that I can choose from with my minimal gaming time these days. Youve said its not for you. Thats fine. Why are you still going on about it like youre offended someone is getting the benefit from gamepass. Its offering a service to people like me who dont have the time nor money to burn any more on gaming. That doesnt mean I have to give up my hobby any more and gives me a foot back on the ladder where I couldnt usually. Thats great news and should be applauded.

You could get games on sale for less than 10 dollars or newish games at about 30 and you can play whenever you like, why pay a sub that you might not use and that isnt available if Internet or servers go down? Is it just the inflated appearance of your library? Like feeling way more important than you are when you wear a suit?

 

[Acidizer]

There's definitely some sort of mentality with subscription models going on.

Not sure exactly what it is, but I am more likely to go back and give a game that I already bought (but dismissed early on) a fair shake, now just because it is "free" - and even though I already bought it before and didn't play it. Pretty weird.

There is definitely some sort of lure there.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

I don't know where this quantity over quality talking point has come from buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut it's bullshit.

Go take a look at gamepass. The majority of those titles are quality. The rest are games I haven't played yet.

Play the percentage game brah!

 

[Bryank75]

I don't know where this quantity over quality talking point has come from buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut it's bullshit.

Go take a look at gamepass. The majority of those titles are quality. The rest are games I haven't played yet.

Play the percentage game brah!

I already have more games than I know what to do with from what I buy and then 2 to 3 free games from PS + every month.
Additional subs are unnecessary for 99% of people.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

I already have more games than I know what to do with from what I buy and then 2 to 3 free games from PS + every month.
Additional subs are unnecessary for 99% of people.

That's the genius of gamepass; You don't have to buy games.

I have more games than i know what to do with because of XBLG and GP. Buying games is unnecessary for 99% of people who have subs.

Gamepass is like a steam backlog without the guilt of knowing you've paid money for every game in the list

 

[Bryank75]

That's the genius of gamepass; You don't have to buy games.

I have more games than i know what to do with because of XBLG and GP. Buying games is unnecessary for 99% of people who have subs.

Gamepass is like a steam backlog without the guilt of knowing you've paid money for every game in the list

Correction, you have nothing. They are not your games. They might as well be blockbusters games, it's glorified rental.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

The customer base largely cares about quantity first. If that is reasonable then the topic will shift to quality

I disagree with this strongly. I've never gotten the impression nor have I ever seen data that the video gamer industry prefers quantity over quality.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

It's expecting greed over need.

Basically, there are a few hardcore gamers (like me, and presumably everyone else here) which buy a ton of games. But most gamers only buy a few games - total - over the lifespan of a system. So even though there are a few million console owners, that doesn't really translate into the kind of sales that it should.

By making a subscription service, they are willing to lose a little on the hardcore gamers getting free games (especially when many will buy them anyway), but in exchange make those gamers who don't buy many games into a continuous revenue stream. It doesn't matter if they play one game or a hundred games, they pay the same amount. It's like gym memberships - the ideal consumer is someone subscribes to the service in January, uses it a few times, and never comes back.

Even more than that, the $60 you pay for a game is not generally the main revenue stream for AAA Western games anymore. Just like iPhone games are now all free with tons of microtransactions, that's what is going to happen to Microsoft's streaming service. They will basically be giving the illusion of the game away for free, so that they can sell you the actual game in bits and pieces at a higher price. Microsoft is acting like this is Netflix, when this is more like Korean F2P MMO Hellscape.

The Xbox Game Pass is not a net win for gaming. Nothing is ever too good to be true, and there's always a cost associated with it. This Game Pass may have a grotesque hidden cost that could ultimately make Xbox systems into as big of a joke as mobile gaming became.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

I disagree with this strongly. I've never gotten the impression nor have I ever seen data that the video gamer industry prefers quantity over quality.

I've never seen data to say one way or the other.

I have seen many posts saying system launches or service launches from people who aren't owners/subscribers saying lack games as being the reason. And companies #1 talking points for them is the number of games.

But at the same time that could be fanboys with their ever changing goal posts

 

[Naru]

It's a bit of a weird question if you take Premier, Game Pass and Uplay+ which all have new releases at day 1. So the quality really comes down to what the publisher releases. The additional third party games you get with Premier and GP are just a bonus in my opinion.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I don't know where this quantity over quality talking point has come from buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut it's bullshit.

Go take a look at gamepass. The majority of those titles are quality. The rest are games I haven't played yet.

Play the percentage game brah!

Maybe you should read the OP and then you might understand that the issue is not NOW but where it could lead us. OP has a valid point in that if the industry moves to a subscription model then it’s valid to assume that the development effort/quality will go down.

Yes right now Gamepass has great games on it, but if that is the future the amount of great games will decrease and there will be a drastic increase in cookiecutter cheaply developed games.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Maybe you should read the OP and then you might understand that the issue is not NOW but where it could lead us. OP has a valid point in that if the industry moves to a subscription model then it’s valid to assume that the development effort/quality will go down.

Yes right now Gamepass has great games on it, but if that is the future the amount of great games will decrease and there will be a drastic increase in cookiecutter cheaply developed games.

I apologise for skim reading the OP. I have just woke up.

I don't think the quality will decrease to levels of mobile, I simply think that ads will be put in games.

That's where we're heading.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Correction, you have nothing. They are not your games. They might as well be blockbusters games, it's glorified rental.

And any digital games are not your games either. The difference is, it's cheap as fuck for me to play instead of paying £60. I don't care that i can't trade them in and 99% of games nowadays I only play once anyway.

 

[Nikana]

Indie games are usually 10 euro or less, free demos was the answer to this before it ever became a question. All these subscriptions are just unsustainable. The only people getting behind it are xbox fanboys who have no good AAA games to get behind and trolls.

Lol this is hilarious.