Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Nope.
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Super Mario Bros. 2 needs to serve as the inspiration for the next Mario Platformer.
- Thread starter Watch Da Birdie
- Start date
While I agree with your post, the bolded simply isn't true.
People hate on the NSMB series because each new game is simply more of the same shit. We wouldn't be angry if it was more of the same... awesomeness. Case and point, Mario Galaxy 2. SMB2j would also fall into the awesomeness category
You talk about taste. One persons shit is another persons gold. Since there were many many people buying the game, there seen to be a lot of player who thought it was awesome. Mario Galaxy 2 did much more changes as SMB2JP did by comparison with SMB and its level-design were on par or even better then the prequel. SMB2JP missed a lot of important develpers of the first game (like Miyamoto) and what is recognizable in the level-design (it is much harder since its a lot more unfair).
SMB2JP has it place in history as first "Romhack"-like game and as forefather of unfair/Nintendo Hard/"Everything wants you dead"-Level-Design, which inspire games like Super Meat Boy or I Wanna Be The Guy.
Super mario bros 2 had improved animations and other things.
So speaking of a romhack isn't correct.
The music and leveldesign and unique gameplay was great.
Most people are comparing it with the main mario series, but that's wrong.
The game is still original compared to any 2D game. Also many people which didn't played the game from his first release, having problems with the unfamiliar strange design of super mario bros 2. They do aspect something else.
While i do love the yoshi mario series, i take super mario bros 2 above any yoshi game that's already been made.
So speaking of a romhack isn't correct.
The music and leveldesign and unique gameplay was great.
Most people are comparing it with the main mario series, but that's wrong.
The game is still original compared to any 2D game. Also many people which didn't played the game from his first release, having problems with the unfamiliar strange design of super mario bros 2. They do aspect something else.
While i do love the yoshi mario series, i take super mario bros 2 above any yoshi game that's already been made.
They're speaking of Super Mario Bros 2J (or Lost Level in the west).
If they do decide to bring back the throwing mechanism from SMB2 then I'd rather have the game in 2D. Aiming and throwing is a pain in 3D. In Zelda (Skyward Sword got it right with its onscreen marker) you are at least taking your time. A Mario platformer would require you to throw a dozen veggies in a second.
And bring back the best Mario victory theme.
And bring back the best Mario victory theme.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Nope.
Also nope.
Nah.
And no. I can't say I really care for modern frustration platformers at all, whereas SMB2J is definitely my favorite platformer of all time and easily on my shortlist of favorite games ever.
You know what's nice? Having a game that plays almost exactly like one of your other favorites but "cuts out the fat," so to speak. Skips the introductory levels, presumes that you know what you're doing, offers a little more variety in its obstacles, and challenges you to excel with all of the tools at your disposal. SMB2J is that game, fun at its core for the same reasons as its predecessor, but presented in a way that doesn't have to cater to people who don't already understand it.
SMB2J presumes from the onset that you're familiar with SMB, and much of the sequel focuses on either testing that knowledge or subverting it. 1UPs are plentiful if you know how to look for them, more so than in the original, and particularly in bowling over enemies with koopa shells and staircase tricks in multiple levels. SMB has secret areas accessed via climbing over the top of the stage; SMB2 has some stages where doing such is actually part of the level itself. SMB has some spots where it's possible to jump over the flagpole and get stuck; SMB2 has some levels where extra content is actually placed after the flagpole. SMB has a few instances where taking a Starman will provide an easy out at the expense of preventing you from obtaining a possible bonus 1UP; SMB2 takes that to the next step by having a couple of spots where taking the Starman will prevent you from actually completing a necessary jump. Stages are bigger and somewhat less linear, it doesn't have repeat stages like the first game does, and it has the first auto-scrolling stages in the series. It plays with your head a little, but not really in such a way that should be confusing if you've been paying attention. You have to get through about half of the game before you even start getting into stages that are consistently more difficult than any of those in SMB1.
I get the impression that people have the intricacies of the original Super Mario Bros so ingrained in their heads after so many years that they've forgotten what steps they took to master it in the first place and are unwilling to take those same steps to master its direct sequel. Modern gamers rarely have the perspective to understand what "Nintendo hard" actually is. There were a lot of 8-bit games with limited continues, bad controls, bad physics, bad collision detection, and really cheap bosses. SMB2J has none of those qualities. On the contrary, it goes somewhat further than its predecessor did in providing you help to overcome its obstacles. Flagpole trick means an extra 1UP on almost every stage. Most of the hardest stages have hidden power-ups. (SMB2 8-4 has two Mushroom/Flower boxes. By contrast, SMB 8-4 has none; good luck on that last stretch.) It doesn't require a cheat code to continue on the world you left off. The maze levels are better at providing you visual cues for when you take the wrong path, which is something SMB1 often failed at. You just have to be observant and sharp to notice this stuff. And then there's the stuff I mentioned above.
So yeah, my personal GOAT. There was a point a few years ago where I was replaying it so often that I was eventually able to complete a 100% run without dying (non-TAS), although I admittedly got lucky a few times. So much for "romhack difficulty" though. Just because Howard Lincoln sucked at it and blocked it from US shores doesn't mean you have to buy into the myth. (Backward warp zones are phenomenally stupid. I'll give you that much. Fortunately, there's only 2 of them in the whole game.)
Super Mario Bros 2 USA? Like I said, I like the mechanics of that game just fine. There's a lot about it that's worth trying again and such a game would definitely stand out from the pack today. I don't really like that particular game itself very much overall though because it's pretty bad about wasting my time. Vase key hunts aren't fun. Routine backtracking isn't fun. Slowly digging through layers and layers of sand isn't fun. It's a waste of time; it's busywork. I much prefer traditional Mario to that, and to be more specific I prefer linear challenge-based Mario over the more exploration-centric games, not that there's anything particularly wrong with that other stuff.
Lord British
Member
The amusing thing is, SMB2 USA is, almost literally, a romhack.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
I don't believe any of those games mentioned in the OP were a homage to the games said.
I mean, 3D Land was moreso to me a dumbed down less flashy Galaxy game combined with a Super Mario Brothers feel and New Super Mario Brothers U besides having a bigger map and whatnot, is still very much along the lines of the New Super Mario Brothers series no matter how much people want to believe it's a modern Super Mario World.
With that said, Wart rules.
I mean, 3D Land was moreso to me a dumbed down less flashy Galaxy game combined with a Super Mario Brothers feel and New Super Mario Brothers U besides having a bigger map and whatnot, is still very much along the lines of the New Super Mario Brothers series no matter how much people want to believe it's a modern Super Mario World.
With that said, Wart rules.
I don't get your point here. All things you describe are part of modern "everything wants you dead"-platformer. Thinking outside the box, constantly learning new tricks and expect changing rules (a Starman is always a good thing, the level ends with the flag, etc.). Mario Games after SMB2JP distance them self from this style. Rules are cut in stone, only the level-designs think outside the box by creating challenges and every Mario game is someones first Mario Game. The style Miyamoto is known for and that's why his low participating in the development of SMB2JP is obvious in the game.
Other then that it is a nice analyse of your love for the game. I and other people never said, that SMB2JP is a bad game. It would never had evolve in the modern days through Indie games, if there was a special attraction with its style of level-design.
They still have the Advance games to go through...
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Modern frustration platformers just seem to be designed completely around bite-sized challenges, one at a time. Really hard task, save point, repeat, with infinite lives. As far as pacing and overall difficulty is concerned, SMB2J is actually pretty far removed from that.
Jawmuncher
Member
While I only had Super Maio 2 on GBA, at first I hated it but now I actually like it.
Would be interesting to go back to the pick everything up mechanic for a 3D mario.
Would be interesting to go back to the pick everything up mechanic for a 3D mario.
Look, I actually LIKE SMB2 as well.
BUT
Taking a team as talented as the Mario team (any one of them) to create a similar game would be insanity. For example, I enjoyed the movie Constantine. Do I want to see a Constantine 2? Hell no.
I hope I explained my point clearly enough.
BUT
Taking a team as talented as the Mario team (any one of them) to create a similar game would be insanity. For example, I enjoyed the movie Constantine. Do I want to see a Constantine 2? Hell no.
I hope I explained my point clearly enough.
I was thinking about this lately.
There is so many ideas Nintendo already explored that never returns in recent games. Scolling levels from top to bottom, bottom to top, or left to right, for example (as seen in SMBUSA and SMB3). There is probably more things but this idea alone doesn't make sense on how much the NSMB formula didn't use the gameplay legacy of previous Mario games.
My dream Mario game is still a game that consist of 8-9 worlds with SMB3 maps, and each world with 1 Super Mario 64 3D level with 7-8 stars, a couple tiny 3D levels like in SMGalaxy, and 8-10 2D levels like in SMB3/World/ whatever 2D Mario game.
There is so many ideas Nintendo already explored that never returns in recent games. Scolling levels from top to bottom, bottom to top, or left to right, for example (as seen in SMBUSA and SMB3). There is probably more things but this idea alone doesn't make sense on how much the NSMB formula didn't use the gameplay legacy of previous Mario games.
My dream Mario game is still a game that consist of 8-9 worlds with SMB3 maps, and each world with 1 Super Mario 64 3D level with 7-8 stars, a couple tiny 3D levels like in SMGalaxy, and 8-10 2D levels like in SMB3/World/ whatever 2D Mario game.
D.Lo
Member
Those trying to be cool defending Mario 2 J...
Doki Doki Panic was a Miyamoto original.
SMB2J is a poorly done level hack not done by Miyamoto. It almost literally a level pack created quickly to push the Famicom Disk System.
SMB2 USA is a much more creative, modern (for the time) game, almost a generation ahead of SMB graphically.
Doki Doki Panic was a Miyamoto original.
SMB2J is a poorly done level hack not done by Miyamoto. It almost literally a level pack created quickly to push the Famicom Disk System.
SMB2 USA is a much more creative, modern (for the time) game, almost a generation ahead of SMB graphically.
The Hermit
Member
Yes! I am kinda bummed because I think Nintendo has the same opinion of the majority of this thread...
Nintendo had already created an estabilished concept with Mario games, which when you jump on an enemie it dies, so I doubt they will release a main Mario game with the gameplay of SMB2.
Maybe an spinoff with playable Peach, Luigi and Toad, thats the only way I can see it happening.
Nintendo had already created an estabilished concept with Mario games, which when you jump on an enemie it dies, so I doubt they will release a main Mario game with the gameplay of SMB2.
Maybe an spinoff with playable Peach, Luigi and Toad, thats the only way I can see it happening.
How dare people enjoy SMB2J more?
GameCenterXDS
Member
No way. The real Japanese Super Mario Bros 2 should serve as inspiration more.
D.Lo
Member
SMB2 USA is Miyamoto's favourite Mario game
You're welcome to enjoy it more, but it really, really is a rom hack/expansion pack, not a new game.
I'm starting to think Shiggy has either schizophrenia or dementia at this point. Not too long ago he said his favorite was SMW.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
SMB3 before that, too.
Nocturnowl
Member
While i'd be up for more SMB2 references in the main games i'm not sure i'd want a game nostalgia focused around it, i'm already getting tired of the SMB3 nostalgia festivities, lets have something new with only a few winks to the old next go around.
Vegetables should turn up in a few stages though.
The main point in the OP seems to actually be the return of varied characters with different attributes, not something i'd want in a standard Mario game personally but a game fully built up around it would be fine.
If the main gameplay style of SMB2 is what people want I suggest they actually bring it back under its original guise of Doki Doki Panic or with a new character as a spiritual successor, in either case as a download title.
First up is Mario Advance 1 which is in fact SMB2!
Time for the return of voiced villains, "this is as far as you go!"
And Mario Bros Arcade.
Vegetables should turn up in a few stages though.
The main point in the OP seems to actually be the return of varied characters with different attributes, not something i'd want in a standard Mario game personally but a game fully built up around it would be fine.
If the main gameplay style of SMB2 is what people want I suggest they actually bring it back under its original guise of Doki Doki Panic or with a new character as a spiritual successor, in either case as a download title.
First up is Mario Advance 1 which is in fact SMB2!
Time for the return of voiced villains, "this is as far as you go!"
And Mario Bros Arcade.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
How about a new take on platforming that isn't weighed down by legacy? Remember all the new stuff in SMB3? What SMW and Yoshi's Island brought?
biggkidd32
Member
I'll take anything that moves away from NSMB. I don't hate the series but I'm tired of the same art style and music.
thecouncil
Banned
super mario bros. 2 was pretty rad.
i agree with OP. but i think its just a matter of time for its return. if it never does, id love to know why nintendo is trying to forget it outside of the occasional enemy incorporation.
wheres wart though? seriously.
also, great tune.
edit: other great tune.
i agree with OP. but i think its just a matter of time for its return. if it never does, id love to know why nintendo is trying to forget it outside of the occasional enemy incorporation.
wheres wart though? seriously.
also, great tune.
edit: other great tune.
Captain_Spanky
Member
Great post. A must read
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
YES!
People saying they would prefer the japanese version are crazy.
Its just a fucking expansion pack with the same horrible physics SMB1 has, more difficult, and no graphical distinctive element. You dont need to copy the fucking japanese version to make a game more difficult, you can do that from the get go.
SMB2 USA in the other hand has a totally different style that could bring somthing new to the saga. And new mechanics to play with Mario. And they can make finally the 4 player with Peach instead of two fucking toads (or only singleplayer with choosing character) where each one has different abilities. Even a villain thats not Bowser.
What the fuck people, what the funck, is not even that you had more fun with SMB2 JP, is that it doesnt work to do a new game, becuase that means NSMB all over again. SMB2 USA brings so many new things to the table it would be a breath of fresh air.
And can nintendo fucking stop of doing the SMB+SMB3 template in their games! Even NSMBWii, that supposedly is a tribute to SMW, still has shit of SMB3.
Mysterious Stranger
Member
dunno why, but this is particularly funny coming from a dude with a mega man avatar.
Mysterious Stranger
Member
"Super Mario Bros. 2 initially started out as a demo for a vertically scrolling, two-player, cooperative-action game that was scrapped.[4] The reasons included the technical limitations of the NES hardware making it difficult to produce a polished game featuring a vertical orientation and multiplayer features conceived for the project. It was decided to add more Mario-like elements, such as horizontal levels (though many vertically-oriented levels were retained in the final project). Since the game had gone through some development, Nintendo created the game Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic for the Family Computer Disk System during its agreement with the Fuji Television company. The game was changed in order to fit with the theme of the mascots of the company and their adventure."
Why you want another side story game that was butchered to death by Nintendo?
Why you want another side story game that was butchered to death by Nintendo?
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Becuase I dont give a shit for Mario side stories, SMB2 USA still brings new things to the table that could be expanded right now to make them better, and a game that feels liek a breath of fresh air than the SMB+SMB3 copy copy copy nintendo is doing right now.
IrishNinja
Member
another vote in here to counter the "NO" crowd..i'm down! it's quite different & i know it wasn't for everyone, but i still got love for it, and it's great seeing shyguys & the fellow denizens of subcon about.
I mean, i'm not at all a fan of Zelda 2 but if they wanted to a spinoff like that for the fans, again i'd be down for something different.
...i mean, how can you look at that and not wanna play something like it?
I mean, i'm not at all a fan of Zelda 2 but if they wanted to a spinoff like that for the fans, again i'd be down for something different.
...i mean, how can you look at that and not wanna play something like it?
Not fond of the art style, but the gameplay would likely be awesome.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
I want to ask you seriously WHY?
Dont say me difficulty, any game can be difficult if you want to do it like that.
Does its have a distinctive artistic style?
Does it bring something really new to the table we havent seen in any of the NSMB?
Please, i dont understand this.
Diddy Kong
Banned
All my money.
I'd be down for Wart returning
I think it'd be a great idea to have Wart and Bowser team up for once. Or something. Just shake up the formula a little (and yes, bring back Peach's floating ability).
Cerebral Assassin
Member
DKC is a mediocre platformer which should only be remembered for it's (at the time) amazing graphics.
All of that may be true, but the Lost Levels is better to play(in the same way the SMB1 is better than SMB2 in every non-graphical way).
I think he has just started to troll interviewers that ask him about old games, unless it is in a Iwata Asks I wouldn't believe a word he says.
Donkey Kong 94 is worlds better than Donkey Kong Country, and this is coming from someone who likes DKC.
The game not being made by Miyamoto and the game being made to push the FDS are both complete and total non-issues given the quality of the results. As with anything.
Davey Cakes
Member
I've been saying this for a while. In today's climate of Mario games, seeing a new 2D or 3D Mario game in the vein of SMB2 would be really refreshing. I'd love to see Shy Guys and Birdo as enemies again, as well as the likes of Phanto, Ninjis, Snifits, and Mouser.
Also, playable Peach!
SMB2 brought a lot of things to the table but it's always treated like the black sheep.
Also, playable Peach!
SMB2 brought a lot of things to the table but it's always treated like the black sheep.