Support NeoGAF

[Chû Totoro]

Unspoilered your bad post as you don't like the restriction either.

How are we in disagreement here?

What? (sorry I don't understand your answer... may be my bad English level sorry).

I don't know if I'm disagreeing with you or not and it's not really important since I'm not here to convince people that it's good or bad. It's just here for a reason, try to understand why. Adjust your judgment (or not) and done.

If you're saying that you find it not to be the best solution to make people put more effort into understanding the tools and make better user created levels then ok, it's your opinion.
And I have mine (find it not to be perfect but results may be worth it since LBP was one of my most wanted games and ended up being a bad platformer and a really quick poor community game).

Still you quoted me so I'm happy that I discussed this with you. Yet your arguments are not really here. What would you suggest? Cross fingers so the community learns to use all this with passion and make the most awesomest levels in two days?

 

[UncleSporky]

Your machines probably sucked though, right?

Yeah dude, usually I built a big arena full of pinball bumpers, 100 mice, and one cat.

 

[Mael]

yeah that's fair enough. and maybe it won't work out like I have envisioned in my mind but if it does I think it could be cool. I'm weird though, most people on here seem to be all for endless options and content. I think limitations are what make truly great games.

To be fair I think they need to be way less restrictive in their search style for this to be any good at all.
I mean I would really like a search option to find levels done with only using some tilesets or something.

 

[RagnarokX]

What?
That's legit disappointing! I wanted that Yoshi in SMB1 levels!
It also means that we're not getting special abilities for Yoshi in SMW tileset?

There are only 2 kinds of koopa shell: green and red. There was a video I saw recently where Yoshi ate a red shell in SMW style and instead of spitting fire he just spit the shell back out. He does get the flutter jump in NSMBU style, though. They also added the ability to dismount the shoe like you can dismount yoshi, so the shoe is basically just yoshi minus the tongue... well, a yoshi tongue at least.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

So, again, not comparable at all.

Because they're not at all similar. One is a game design method, another is hamfisted copy protection.

You are missing the point. The point being that every developer could use the "playtest" excuse to defend anything they do on a game. If we just swallowed that every time this forum would not need to exist because we'd never be able to be critical of a game. Nintendo doesn't always know better, and have the track record to prove it.

 

[Zubz]

So wait, you don't even unlock tools, you have to wait for them? There was a reason to do this with Splatoon; it was the first game Nintendo went ham on with online features, so a lot of things needed tested. This is literally a level editor. When they said that not everything would be available from the start, I took it to mean that you had to, like, make a map with the basic Super Mario Bros. format before more enemies/game-themes were available, so that way you could practice with those. This is just holding back content; it's like Day 1 DLC, but there's no way to get it so Nintendo's not even profiting off of it.

 

[Newtype-001]

 

[Chopper]

It's nine days, which in the context of your entire lifetime is absolutely nothing. It encourages you to experiment with a few tools each day which means you can learn how to get the most out of them instead of just focussing on a few from the entire line-up as you'd do if you had everything at once. It's less overwhelming for new players than the full screen being available at once would be. It encourages you to play every day and see what people are doing.

This is literally the justification that y'all are clamoring for. Post #11 people. Stop ignoring it.

Game's gonna be fucking awesome!

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Just like this day counter, the Vita was a poor decision by Sony, and I say that as someone who owns one.

Then I vote for Sony to make as many poor decisions as they possibly can in the future. Because as far as what that poor decision did for me, it's the best decision and hardware company has made in a loooong time.

 

[Mcdohl]

Spend 45 minutes playing the game for five minutes, change the clock, play the game for five minutes, change the clock, etc.

Abuse the Wii U's internal clock. Abuse it HARD!

Thanks for actually providing answers guys!

"Trend"

What trend?

You're right, it's not actually a trend. Sorry for misusing the word.

It's about me being afraid it becomes a trend.

 

[Mael]

There are only 2 kinds of koopa shell: green and red. There was a video I saw recently where Yoshi ate a red shell in SMW style and instead of spitting fire he just spit the shell back out. He does get the flutter jump in NSMBU style, though. They also added the ability to dismount the shoe like you can dismount yoshi, so the shoe is basically just yoshi minus the tongue... well, a yoshi tongue at least.

You are absolutely right! this didn't cross my mind at all.
So basically in SMB1-3, you have the shoe.
SMB1 is the high heel
SMB3 is the Kuribo shoe.
SMW is Yoshi who land on spike (was this possible in SMW proper? I mean all spikes?) and can swallow/spit foes
NSMB is same as above but can flutter jump like in Yoshi's Island.
did I miss anything?

So wait, you don't even unlock tools, you have to wait for them? There was a reason to do this with Splatoon; it was the first game Nintendo went ham on with online features, so a lot of things needed tested. This is literally a level editor. When they said that not everything would be available from the start, I took it to mean that you had to, like, make a map with the basic Super Mario Bros. format before more enemies/game-themes were available, so that way you could practice with those. This is just holding back content; it's like Day 1 DLC, but there's no way to get it so Nintendo's not even profiting off of it.

It's like SSB hidden characters really, nothing really new.

 

[UncleSporky]

There are only 2 kinds of koopa shell: green and red. There was a video I saw recently where Yoshi ate a red shell in SMW style and instead of spitting fire he just spit the shell back out. He does get the flutter jump in NSMBU style, though. They also added the ability to dismount the shoe like you can dismount yoshi, so the shoe is basically just yoshi minus the tongue... well, a yoshi tongue at least.

Kind of cool actually because they'd wanted to put in a mount since the very first game, IIRC. They tried to put Yoshi in 3 but couldn't, and we got the shoe instead. I think I read that's how it went down.

 

[phanphare]

To be fair I think they need to be way less restrictive in their search style for this to be any good at all.
I mean I would really like a search option to find levels done with only using some tilesets or something.

I am almost 100% positive that you can search by tileset

and also to be fair this game has not released yet. I'm willing to let it play out and see if I like or dislike it.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Then I vote for Sony to make as many poor decisions as they possibly can in the future. Because as far as what that poor decision did for me, it's the best decision and hardware company has made in a loooong time.

If they do that though they'll go bankrupt and won't be able to make any more poor decisions that you and I might like.

 

[Xbro]

Hmm, does this mean you can change the clock on your Wii U to get it early?

 

[UncleSporky]

You are absolutely right! this didn't cross my mind at all.
So basically in SMB1-3, you have the shoe.
SMB1 is the high heel
SMB3 is the Kuribo shoe.
SMW is Yoshi who land on spike (was this possible in SMW proper? I mean all spikes?) and can swallow/spit foes
NSMB is same as above but can flutter jump like in Yoshi's Island.
did I miss anything?

Pretty sure you can shake the shoe to make it stiletto (black or red). I've seen all 3 in the same level at Nintendo World Championships.

 

[Apathy]

Nintendo is going to Nintendo. I've given up on trying to understand why the hell Nintendo does things.

 

[Mael]

I am almost 100% positive that you can search by tileset

and also to be fair this game has not released yet. I'm willing to let it play out and see if I like or dislike it.

Even if the game didn't have level sharing I would still be all over it,
this means more people will play my levels I'm cool with it either way.

Pretty sure you can shake the shoe to make it stiletto (black or red). I've seen all 3 in the same level at Nintendo World Championships.

So I did miss something!
I wonder what happens if you shake Yoshi then...

 

[MajorMane]

On a related note,where is the raccoon suit/cape/propeller suit? And the P Switch.

As people have already said, but confirming, the ? Mushroom in Day 2 changes to Super Leaf in SMB3, Cape Feather in SMW, and Propeller Mushroom in NSMBU. P-Switch is P-Switch in every theme except NSMBU, where it's the ? Switch. (So Day 6.)

What?
That's legit disappointing! I wanted that Yoshi in SMB1 levels!
It also means that we're not getting special abilities for Yoshi in SMW tileset?

I imagine that they're trying to keep most things consistent to where they were available. (i.e. Yoshi was available in SMW, but not the OG SMB.) Haven't seen anything in regards to Yoshi's abilities, however.

 

[oatmeal]

I wonder if reviews have it all unlocked.

 

[Mael]

I imagine that they're trying to keep most things consistent to where they were available. (i.e. Yoshi was available in SMW, but not the OG SMB.) Haven't seen anything in regards to Yoshi's abilities, however.

I think that apart from special skills you get in SMW you can expect what you get when you play SMW and NSMBU

I wonder if reviews have it all unlocked.

Considering IGN is running a series on making Mario levels already,
Yeah I think they'll be ok

 

[test_account]

It's on an individual basis, so waiting 9 days wouldn't change anything.

Oh ok, i see.

 

[Sephzilla]

Considering IGN is running a series on making Mario levels already,
Yeah I think they'll be ok

To be fair though, i think they're running on a development build and not the retail version

 

[fernoca]

Nothing wrong with it, quite like it. So that people get to know things, rather than the usual "throw everything and the kitchen sink" approach many have.

 

[BGBW]

To be fair though, i think they're running on a development build and not the retail version

SFX Frog doesn't appear in their videos so I'm guessing you're correct.

 

[Mechanized]

I saw this in the trailer and was a bit like... ehhhhhh are you serious Nintendo? But the game looks so amazing I don't even care.

 

[Mael]

To be fair though, i think they're running on a development build and not the retail version

True but considering how sometimes journalists get a modified easy version of the final code I could see them getting the game fully unlocked.
I know that even with the level 1 tileset I for a month I want this game already!
So much possibilities and so little time!

 

[sixteen-bit]

no need to spring for release day delivery i guess

 

[Kouichi]

I understand the reasoning behind it and think it's pretty good idea, but 9 days is way too long.

 

[OmegaFax]

I don't mind this approach as long as Nintendo didn't implement something shitty and disable unlockables if the system clock is changed. Pokemon ORAS did this to deter people from manipulating the internal clock to get to certain events.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

no need to spring for release day delivery i guess

9 day window starts the first time you play.

 

[MajorMane]

no need to spring for release day delivery i guess

You'll be waiting 9 days from when you first start playing the game, not 9 days from release date.

Get it day one or five days later, it will take 9 days to unlock everything.

 

[Vena]

To be fair though, i think they're running on a development build and not the retail version

They unlocked important parts for Splatoon for reviewers too, they can do just about anything with the review copies, and will likely, in this case, unlock everything especially since 9 days is basically no time at all compared to Splatoon's months long roll-out.

 

[Scrawnton]

Apparently I'm the minority, but I think this is a great idea.

Also, this is why this type of news should've been announced in a Nintendo Direct. It needed more context and reasoning so people wouldn't complain as badly.

 

[RagnarokX]

You are absolutely right! this didn't cross my mind at all.
So basically in SMB1-3, you have the shoe.
SMB1 is the high heel
SMB3 is the Kuribo shoe.
SMW is Yoshi who land on spike (was this possible in SMW proper? I mean all spikes?) and can swallow/spit foes
NSMB is same as above but can flutter jump like in Yoshi's Island.
did I miss anything?



It's like SSB hidden characters really, nothing really new.

Stiletto is just what happens when you shake the shoe. Both the regular shoe and stiletto are in both SMB and SMB3. I don't know if there is a difference between the shoe and stiletto beyond visuals.

Oh yeah. Yoshi can now interact with objects with which he was never together with before. He can lick fire bars and jet engines and spit out a fireball. They essentially give him an infinite source of ammo for fireballs.

 

[timshundo]

I'm really liking this approach to online play. With Splatoon it allowed everyone to grasp the basics before moving on to more intricate weapons and ways of playing. That way everyone learns together rather than a bunch of idiots who didn't know what they were doing with every single weapon from the start. It's funny because Splatoon weapons have gone in and out of popularity and have finally just arrived at the Tentatek Splattershot and Krak-On Roller as the #1s, proof that way of playing the game have evolved over time. Just as everyone is settling on these two weapons, they throw the Slosher and Splattling into the mix, shaking everything up just as it's about to get stale.

The same is happening here. This isn't about you being arbitrarily limited. There are two sides to Mario Maker: the building of the levels and having ful playing them/being played by people around the world. People will making amazing things with the most basic level building tools so everyone gets and crash course on basic level building (it's not as easy as they make it look). And then in a little more than a week everyone will get new tools to build with all at once and the world will have new things in levels to solve as they play through, starting the excitement all over again.

It's a pretty smart move but also easy to be pessimistic about if you take the "IT'S DLC THATS ALREADY ON THE DISC" approach, which, well... you never let me down GAF.

 

[Kebiinu]

I think it's a good idea. It encourages you to be creative with the tools available!

 

[Mael]

Stiletto is just what happens when you shake the shoe. Both the regular shoe and stiletto are in both SMB and SMB3. I don't know if there is a difference between the shoe and stiletto beyond visuals.

Oh yeah. Yoshi can now interact with objects with which he was never together with before. He can lick fire bars and jet engines and spit out a fireball. They essentially give him an infinite source of ammo for fireballs.

Nice!
Can Yoshi do that in SMW tileset? Because swallowing and spitting fireball was always more of a NSMBU thing I think.

 

[Mazzo]

This is slightly annoying.

 

[Diprosalic]

I just have to assume the game is not finished but they are so desperate to get it out like Splatoon that they will stagger the release to buy time.

Splatoon was fully done when it came out.

 

[emb]

Not really bad or great... just kinda weird imo.

I was mad at the title, thought it was a DLC thing. Glad it's at least not something like that.

I can see how this can keep people playing. I can also see how this could get people to make more use of the early tools.

Still, I'd prefer if it was something that you could put forth extra effort to unlock quickly, if you wanted. That's what makes unlockables so great, you have to get them, almost earn them yourself.

Speaking of quick unlocks, is there any reason you can't just change the Wii U clock after you start? Worked with Animal Crossing back on GC. But I wouldn't want to anyway, there or here.

 

[Gator86]

It's nine days, which in the context of your entire lifetime is absolutely nothing. It encourages you to experiment with a few tools each day which means you can learn how to get the most out of them instead of just focussing on a few from the entire line-up as you'd do if you had everything at once. It's less overwhelming for new players than the full screen being available at once would be. It encourages you to play every day and see what people are doing.

This is literally the justification that y'all are clamoring for. Post #11 people. Stop ignoring it.

Game's gonna be fucking awesome!

There's literally a defense force for everything. If Nintendo released a game that could only be played on Saturday mornings, there's a 100% chance some Gaffer would pop up with "C'mon guys, Saturday morning is the best time for gaming anyway. Game's gonna be fucking awesome!"

 

[Blood Diamonds]

I too enjoy making mountains out of molehills.

This just in: No one is allowed to discuss anything Nintendo unless it has the "Nintendo Fan Seal of Approval"

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Nintendo is trying to make us focused designers, not shitty designers that pile as many gimmicks and enemies in one area as possible.

You will thank them in the longrun.

 

[UncleSporky]

The same is happening here.

It's not, though.

Splatoon is a new game. Of course we all have a lot to learn about it, everyone learning the new levels together.

Most of us have played almost every Mario game. We all know how these elements interact, or have seen the new ways things can interact in prerelease media for Mario Maker.

There should simply be an "advanced" menu option that unlocks everything for people who can handle it from the start.

 

[timshundo]

There's literally a defense force for everything. If Nintendo released a game that could only be played on Saturday mornings, there's a 100% chance some Gaffer would pop up with "C'mon guys, Saturday morning is the best time for gaming anyway. Game's gonna be fucking awesome!"

There's literally a counterargument to the GAF hivemind for everything. Can't they just let everyone agro in PEACE!?

 

[Indymason]

I mean, it doesn't really affect much in the long run, but this just seems like a stupid, pointless limitation.

This. There's no justifiable reason for it.

I'll eventually get the game but I don't like seeing things like this.

I also don't mind them gating content, but doing so behind an arbitrary calendar day count is silly to me. It makes me not want to deal with it.

If it made sense I'd have no issues.

 

[NotLiquid]

If nothing else it's going to be interesting to see what crazy shit people will have managed to do just with the Day 1 tools.

I'd like to see someone rise to the challenge and try making a devilish Kaizo Mario-esque course.

 

[timshundo]

It's not, though.

Splatoon is a new game. Of course we all have a lot to learn about it, everyone learning the new levels together.

Most of us have played almost every Mario game. We all know how these elements interact, or have seen the new ways things can interact in prerelease media for Mario Maker.

There should simply be an "advanced" menu option that unlocks everything for people who can handle it from the start.

By "most" I'm assuming you mean middle-aged internet dudes who've been following the development of this game from the start, aka not Nintendo's target audience with this type of rollout.

 

[megalowho]

Reminds me of Animal Crossing as well, gating progress by days played. I get they want budding designers to learn the tools fully over time, can see how that could rub folks the wrong way but it's a system that works for me. Makes learning a level editor feel a bit more gamey and considering how crazy the options can get, a solid foundation with the basics is probably a good idea. Will be a non issue after the first few weeks.