Support NeoGAF

[Stoze]

This is crap. Not really a progression system the biggest messiest level get you to unlock everything? Sucks if true.

I love unlockables in games and I didn't see the original method as a negative, I'd prefer a progression system, but I'd rather have everything unlocked from the beginning that this method. This is the reason people didn't mind the 9 day wait.


'Cheating' the system to get all stuff seems like a pretty bad alternative IMO.

It's still a progression system, you have to place the new tools you get down, you cant just spam the beginning block and unlock everything in 1 minute. That's better imo since it actually forces you to place stuff down instead of idling for 15 minutes.

People didn't mind the 9 day wait because they could just cheat and get it instantly, not sure what you're trying to say there.

 

[MrPanic]

Hm, internet whining wins again, good stuff. Making people put time into the editor seems like a way more effective way to warm up players to new items that some arbitrary timer, good change.

 

[SeanR1221]

Very cool of Nintendo!

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Cool, now fix the Pokemon Amiibo and we'll be cool.

 

[papo]

Yep, spamming levels full of crap will rush the next delivery in.

Exactly what I was worried about. How is this better than doing a normal progression system? Is spamming the levels with crap really so better than playing the game as it should have been.

I'd rather have unlockable, but if this is it? then everything unlocked would be better.

 

[Kouriozan]

It's still experiment with the stuff you have, then spam and you'll get your new items.

 

[Robin64]

Exactly what I was worried about. How is this better than doing a normal progression system? Is spamming the levels with crap really so better than playing the game as it should have been.

I'd rather have unlockable, but if this is it? then everything unlocked would be better.

To be fair, you don't have to spam the levels. As you use Create mode naturally, things will turn. I suppose that's the real intention here.

 

[phanphare]

Exactly what I was worried about. How is this better than doing a normal progression system? Is spamming the levels with crap really so better than playing the game as it should have been.

I'd rather have unlockable, but if this is it? then everything unlocked would be better.

really don't understand your complaints

there is a normal progression system, it's using the tools you have in the editor before you get new ones

 

[papo]

It's still a progression system, you have to place the new tools you get down, you cant just spam the beginning block and unlock everything in 1 minute. That's better imo since it actually forces you to place stuff down instead of idling for 15 minutes.

People didn't mind the 9 day wait because they could just cheat and get it instantly, not sure what you're trying to say there.

I mean it's a crap way of trying to get the unlocks. Cheating the game in a way. Just place the tools copy/paste, spam stuff and there you go. This method actually makes people just do crap for the first hour or so just so that they can have everything unlocked. This is not a legit progression system IMO.

A better one would be build a level with goals. Like make a levels with this and that or try to recreat this etc. then get rewarded for it. Or pass tutorial levels à la LBP.

really don't understand your complaints

there is a normal progression system, it's using the tools you have in the editor before you get new ones

It's not a normal progression system the majority will game it just to get the items unlocked. A normal progression system could be more similar to what I mentioned above.

 

[Sephzilla]

Exactly what I was worried about. How is this better than doing a normal progression system? Is spamming the levels with crap really so better than playing the game as it should have been.

I'd rather have unlockable, but if this is it? then everything unlocked would be better.

To the average player, they probably wont know to spam the level with blocks to provoke the next wave of unlocks and they'll probably use the system naturally and learn through that. It's still a much better system than an arbitrary 9 day system that doesn't keep any track of how much you use the tools.

 

[boiled goose]

Awesome. Based on use makes sense. Time based was silly

 

[Alfredo]

Yessss... but I guess I set my clock back 9 days for no reason now. lol.

 

[phanphare]

It's not a normal progression system the majority will game it just to get the items unlocked. A normal progression system could be more similar to what I mentioned above.

I mean, it seems like a pretty normal progression to me

start with limited tools -> use available tools -> get new tools -> use new tools -> get more new tools -> etc.


just because it can be abused doesn't really change anything. if you're really bugged by this then just don't spam things to unlock the next tool set.

 

[papo]

I mean, it seems like a pretty normal progression to me

start with limited tools -> use available tools -> get new tools -> use new tools -> get more new tools -> etc.


just because it can be abused doesn't really change anything. if you're really bugged by this then just don't spam things to unlock the next tool set.

I am not bugged by it personally. I will play the game at my pace and enjoy it, but this is not a real progression system I would like. There are already a couple of posts in the thread about people gaming the system and I really can't get why they would do that just to rush to have all items. But yeah that's just me.

I would still have loved that more thought would have gone into a real tutorial/progression system.

 

[Nessus]

Hopefully this means they're also aware of all the people who would love to see DLC that included additional enemy types, level features (slopes, etc.), and an overworld map/stringing levels together to make worlds/entire games.

 

[Sephzilla]

I am not bugged by it personally. I will play the game at my pace and enjoy it, but this is not a real progression system I would like. There are already a couple of posts in the thread about people gaming the system and I really can't get why they would do that just to rush to have all items. But yeah that's just me.

I would still have loved that more thought would have gone into a real tutorial/progression system.

Because the entire marketing hook for this game is "build any Mario course imaginable" and it's hard to do that when you only have a third of the toolset available to you.

 

[Scrawnton]

Patch 1.0.1 removes 9 day limit.
Super Mario Maker release 9/11
1.0.1, 9... 9/11
Conspiracy.. Miyamoto was behind

Spoiler

giving birth to Bowser Jr.

all along!

 

[phanphare]

I am not bugged by it personally. I will play the game at my pace and enjoy it, but this is not a real progression system I would like. There are already a couple of posts in the thread about people gaming the system and I really can't get why they would do that just to rush to have all items. But yeah that's just me.

I would still have loved that more thought would have gone into a real tutorial/progression system.

you said it yourself, so they can have all the items

and no matter what you say this is a real progression because it's a progression and is, in fact, real ;p

 

[papo]

you said it yourself, so they can have all the items

and no matter what you say this is a real progression because it's a progression and is, in fact, real ;p

I'm not saying it's not real. I'm saying it's crap.

Because the entire marketing hook for this game is "build any Mario course imaginable" and it's hard to do that when you only have a third of the toolset available to you.

But it doesn't say in the first day. I still would have wanted more thought to go into this. Having a third of the toolset available because you refuse to play the game is not a valid excuse in my book.

 

[RagnarokX]

Bring on the massive crap levels full of grief.

I found the original issue to be trivial at most, but I would have wished that they then implemented some progression system instead.

I don't know how it is implemented and for how long you would have to wait/play for all parts would show up, but I really wish

I really don't understand why we have reached a place where unlockables are seen as a bad thing. Sure the original idea was stupid, but a progression system would have been best. At least it should be make certain amount of levels with day 1 set items to get day 2 set etc etc.


So how was it finally implemented can someone comment on that?



I also want to know the unlock conditions. I'd rather have the 9 day thing than the items just unlocking. That wold mean the removed 'unlockables' because of some bs.

This is a pretty silly way to look at things. I could see thinking this way if you unlocked the stuff by performing some kind of challenging action like beating a certain game mode or building a level that worked using every available element and they suddenly tossed that out and made everything available with no effort, but there was no effort involved in the original method. The only criterion for unlocking stuff was WAITING 24 hours 8 times. What sense of accomplishment have you lost from the removal of this completely arbitrary and pointlessly long time restriction? Would you have similarly gotten upset if the released date had gotten pushed up a week?

 

[Josh5890]

Nintendo had the right idea with rolling out the tools little by little. The execution just needed to be better. I think this patch is the best of both worlds.

 

[Volotaire]

This thread has 189 retweets on @Neogaf New Threads!?!

On topic, great news. I'm glad Nintendo listened to feedback.

 

[Justified]

To be fair, you don't have to spam the levels. As you use Create mode naturally, things will turn. I suppose that's the real intention here.

really don't understand your complaints

there is a normal progression system, it's using the tools you have in the editor before you get new ones

I think he means that it should be objective-based to prevent abuse, maybe a grade system.

I personally think its fine for what it is, much better than the 9-day nonsense

 

[origamipirate]

I thought it was a good idea, implemented a bit poorly. Really stoked to see that Nintendo heard the complaints and made changes accordingly.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Don't care either way, but whatever works!

 

[RagnarokX]

I think he means that it should be objective-based

It wasn't objective-based before. It was just waiting for a ridiculous 24 hour timer to end and then starting another ridiculous 24 hour timer.

 

[RE_Player]

hilarious people still defending the unlocking system in this thread. It was flawed that is why people were so vocal and Nintendo has corrected the mistake.

 

[El Sabroso]

If they achieved to condition at your pace how the tools are added, that's really amazing

 

[Justified]

It wasn't objective-based before. It was just waiting for a ridiculous 24 hour timer to end and then starting another ridiculous 24 hour timer.

Right. Im saying Papo complaint (and I agree in this regard) is that the new approach didnt "fix" what people saw wrong with the 9-day wait.

Basically the execution doesnt make sense in either way.

Why have the unlock system if we have to self-police, because given the ability, those who choose not to, will just spam through to unlock it all.

 

[E-phonk]

great, game arrives tomorrow, can't wait

 

[Beer Monkey]

You know, I couldn't stand his flippant attitude, but Adam Orth gets redeemed all the time.

 

[evilromero]

Somewhere, someone without internet will be cursing the fact that they gotta wait a couple days to make underwater levels.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Why have the unlock system if we have to self-police, because given the ability, those who choose not to, will just spam through to unlock it all.

You assume everyone who buys the game will know the unlock is based on the number of blocks placed. For most people, all they'll know is they played the game for a while creating levels, and suddenly got access to more tools. This is far better than letting them play for 12 hours without unlocking a single new tool until the next day when they get a few.

 

[Acerac]

Eh, I wasn't too worried about it, especially given the amount of preconstructed courses, but nice to see Nintendo listen.

A positive change, for sure.

 

[Justified]

You assume everyone who buys the game will know the unlock is based on the number of blocks placed. For most people, all they'll know is they played the game for a while creating levels, and suddenly got access to more tools.

Again why have it then, just to give some false joy of achievement?

Even if thats the case objective-base would have been better.

In any event they switch it to a more "sensible" method, but if we are discussing this in a vacuum (and hopefully people can see that we are), there is a much better, proven way, to go

 

[TheSlySoul]

In any event they switch it to a more "sensible" method, but if we are discussing this in a vacuum (and hopefully people can see that we are), there is a much better, proven way, to go

It's not a perfect change I will agree, but at least it is based on using the editor for a period of time instead of time-based.

 

[Stoze]

Again why have it then, just to give some false joy of achievement?

Even if thats the case objective-base would have been better.

In any event they switch it to a more "sensible" method, but if we are discussing this in a vacuum (and hopefully people can see that we are), there is a much better, proven way, to go

There's a lot of ways to revamp make it better. It could've been objective-based with a unlock toggle deep in the options menu that asks "Unlock all tools without tutorial. Are you sure you want to do this?".

But this is what we got, and it's better than the 9-day system or even the 15 min increments we thought it was initially.

 

[qko]

What if the whole thing was a ploy to get reviewers to actually play the game and not spend half an hour with the game and write an impression of "too many things to do, I'm overwhelmed 6/10"

 

[Joey Ravn]

Well, this is disgusting. What "this" is, I don't know. But we have to complain, right?

 

[Pinky]

The 9 day thing never really bothered me, but it's cool that you can unlock everything much faster now.

 

[Portugeezer]

Defenders of the 9 day unlock system be damned!!

 

[Justified]

Well, this is disgusting. What "this" is, I don't know. But we have to complain, right?

C'mon dude, we are discussion the concept of this system. Thats where it begins and end.

Discussing =/= Complaining

 

[TI82]

Wow, I'm surprised Nintendo actually listened. That idea was horrible to begin with.

Now all the people who kept defending it can eat dirt.

 

[MagusMaleficus]

The damn patch won't download for me. Dunno why but my Wii U is connected to my network and working (I tried an online Mario Kart race to be sure).

*sad face emoji x10*

 

[Htown]

I never minded the idea of rationing out level parts slowly, but 9 real-world days was a bit much.

 

[Supermanisdead]

What if the whole thing was a ploy to get reviewers to actually play the game and not spend half an hour with the game and write an impression of "too many things to do, I'm overwhelmed 6/10"

yeah, that must be it

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I never minded the idea of rationing out level parts slowly, but 9 real-world days was a bit much.

I know this would upset a ton of people, but I think having like 15-minute mandatory tutorials to unlock stuff would've been okay. You know, really teach players how to utilize each set of items through creative, interactive sessions.

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

Such a bad idea in the first place.

 

[maxcriden]

Do we have a clear understanding at this point of how best to unlock all the tools as quickly as possible under the new system? Just curious.

 

[shaowebb]

I kind of liked the idea of unlocking over 9 days but since I still get to do that by simply crafting I'm not missing out. This probably will please more people anyhow. I recognize that I'm in the minority here, but I really like how continuing content keeps things interesting. I guess from the response though that for this particular premise that this wasn't the way to go about it. Like I said, I was cool with it but it is what it is.