Switzerland ain't Sweden: Muslim couple are denied Swiss citizenship because they refuse to shake hands with members of the opposite sex

luigimario

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And they are wrong for it, but it has always been that way long before religion there. That is old tribalism just solidifying it more with religious backing. The other extreme fighting out there with violent muslim rule is no better. If they were muslim led, it would not change one iota, and can be argued it would be even worse.
The laws were actually codified into their countries when they were colonised, colonised by European Christian powers.....
 

DeepEnigma

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The laws were actually codified into their countries when they were colonised, colonised by European Christian powers.....
Yes, I understand that. However, they were still doing that long before the laws. That has been a tribal action for humans for quite some time. Disgusting yes, I do not support it. It needs to modernize, but currently the opposition waring for control is far fucking worse at this point.
 

luigimario

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Yes, I understand that. However, they were still doing that long before the laws. That has been a tribal action for humans for quite some time. Disgusting yes, I do not support it. It needs to modernize, but currently the opposition waring for control is far fucking worse at this point.
Actually you'd be surprised. We used to have a very nuanced look on sexuality. Look at the Romans and Greeks. The Spartans would engage in homosexuality all the time! Even the muslim Ottoman Empire was alot more liberal when it came to sexuality than it's other european neighbours. Though that is no longer the case today, with modern day Anatolia worse for homosexuals than 14th Century Anatolia.
 

cryptoadam

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This is probably the third or fourth time of asking:

Just provide ONE example of either:-

a) The rapists justifying their crime using religion.

This shouldn't be difficult. I mean, they seem to be quite proud of their acts, and they are quite open in their racism and bigotry against white women. So they have justified it with their racism and sexism. Surely you must have one statement in which they say "We committed these rapes because our religion commands it" or something to that effect. Just one statement. Really, if what you say is true, and that they committed these acts because they were strict muslims who follow the law of their religion fully, than this should be so easy. There should be hundreds of these statements.

OR

b) One fatwah or religious legal ruling from a traditional islamic scholar that says "Raping non muslim women is completely permissable in Islam".

This should be easy, if what you say is true. But since this is the fourth time asking, I think that such statements and rulings don't exist and that the almost one billion muslim men aren't all ready to rape white women for their religion.
Take the sources as you will

http://humanevents.com/2013/04/02/islamic-cleric-rape-of-non-muslim-syrian-women-permitted/

Yet another Islamic cleric recently made it permissible for the Islamic fighters waging a jihad in Syria—politely known as “the opposition”—to rape the nation’s women.
Salafi Sheikh Yasir al-‘Ajlawni, a Jordanian of origin who lived in Damascus, Syria for 17 years, posted a YouTube video last week where he said he was preparing to issue a “legitimate fatwa” making it legal (in the eyes of Islam) for those Muslims fighting to topple secular president Bashar Assad and install Sharia law to “capture and have sex with” all non-Sunni women, specifically naming Assad’s own sect, the Alawites, as well as the Druze and several others, basically, all non-Sunnis and non-Muslims.

The Sheikh used Islam’s legitimate Arabic term for these hapless, non-Muslim women, melk al-yamin, a phrase that appears in Islam’s sacred book, the Koran, and which is simply a reference to non-Muslim sex-slaves. For example, Koran 4:3 commands Muslim men to “Marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four… or what your right hands possess.” Islam’s ulema, or “scholars,” are unanimously agreed that “what your right hands possess” is, according to Islamic law, simply a sex-slave. Linguistic evidence further suggests that she is seen more as an animal, a possession than a human—hence this inhuman fatwa.

Jordanian Sheih Yasir al-‘Ajlawni is certainly not the first cleric to legitimize the rape of infidel women in recent times. Calls to capture and rape non-Muslim women are appearing with increasing frequency and from all corners of the Islamic world.
A few months earlier, Saudi preacher Muhammad al-Arifi also issued a fatwa allowing jihadi fighters to engage in “intercourse marriage” with captive Syrian women that lasts for a few hours “in order to give each fighter a turn”—also known as gang-rape.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/635942/Islam-Scholar-Saud-Saleh-Cairo-Slavery-Muslim-Women-Pagan-ISIS-Al-Azhar-University-Egypt

Professor Saud Saleh – from Al-Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt – reportedly said rape is allowed between times of “legitimate war” between Muslims and their enemies.
In a television interview Saleh appears to try to discourage the purchase of slaves from Asian countries for sex, claiming Allah has given Muslim men a “legitimate” way to have sexual relations with slave women


The controversial professor allegedly said slavery existed before Islam and anyone could trade “freeborn men and women” but that Islam put slavery “into order” by regulating when it was allowed.
It is believed she claimed the only “legitimately owned slaves come from among prisoners from a war”.

Saleh allegedly said: “The female prisoners of wars are ‘those whom you own’.
“In order to humiliate them, they become the property of the army commander, or of a Muslim, and he can have sex with them just like he has sex with his wives.”
http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Imam-Drouiche:-raping-Christians-and-Yazidis-cannot-be-considered-an-Islamic-right-(I)-42986.html

This article seems to confirm the story about Saud Saleh

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3196896/Now-ISIS-makes-rape-religious-doctrine-claiming-Koran-condones-encourages-attacking-women-not-Muslims.html

Islamic State has made rape a central part of its religious doctrine - with members told the Koran 'condones and encourages' attacking women if they are not Muslims, it was claimed today.
The chilling development came as a 12-year-old Yazidi rape victim in Iraq told how her attacker insisted that what he was doing was not sinful - because she practised a religion other than Islam.
https://www.jpost.com/International/Islamic-scholar-Wife-cannot-deny-husband-sex-even-when-riding-on-a-camel-399454

Malaysian religious scholar caused raised eyebrows recently while denying that the concept of marital rape exists in Islam, though saying that a woman would even have to do the deed on a camel if her husband requested.

“Even the Prophet says, even when they’re riding on the back of the camel, when the husband asks her, she must give," Islam religious scholar Perak Mufti Tan Sri Harussani Zakaria told Malay Mail Online on Monday, adding that a wife has "no right" to turn down her husband's sexual advances.
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/133214

A highly influential Shi'a religious leader, with whom Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad regularly consults, apparently told followers last month that coercion by means of rape, torture and drugs is acceptable against all opponents of the Islamic regime.

"Can an interrogator rape the prisoner in order to obtain a confession?" was the follow-up question posed to the Islamic cleric.
Mesbah-Yazdi answered: "The necessary precaution is for the interrogator to perform a ritual washing first and say prayers while raping the prisoner. If the prisoner is female, it is permissible to rape through the vagina or anus. It is better not to have a witness present. If it is a male prisoner, then it's acceptable for someone else to watch while the rape is committed."
This reply, and reports of the rape of teen male prisoners in Iranian jails, may have prompted the following question: "Is the rape of men and young boys considered sodomy?"
One aspect of these permitted rapes troubled certain questioners.
Ayatollah Mesbah-Yazdi: "No, because it is not consensual. Of course, if the prisoner is aroused and enjoys the rape, then caution must be taken not to repeat the rape."
A little bit different and another chapter in the Saudi Iran fight, which liars do you believe?

https://www.jpost.com/Not-Just-News/Top-Saudi-mufti-reportedly-issues-fatwa-allowing-starving-husband-to-eat-his-wife-396657

audi Arabia's highest religious authority has issued a fatwa allowing a starving man to eat his wife in order to save himself, causing a stir among the Kingdom's residents, London-based daily al-Quds al-Arabi reported.

Grand Mufti Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Sheikh, according to the report, said that the act would display the wife's obedience to her husband and her willingness to become one with his flesh.
Saudi Twitter users quickly took to the social network to express their shock at the strange fatwa attributed to the Grand Mufti, al-Quds al-Arabi reported.

Following the report Saudi media accused Iranian media of fabricating the fatwa, noting that the fatwa was not on the official's website.

The Grand Mufti had previously issued controversial fatwas, such as a decree permitting the marriage of minors under the age of 15.
I think that ismaili muslims are a good example for many muslims to follow. They are very western, focus on charity and community and don't really subscribe to many of the out of date parts of the Quran.
 

Boss Mog

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Gambia
Ghana
Guinea
Liberia
Niger
Nigeria
Senegal
Sierra Leone
Togo
Cameroon
Burundi
Kenya
Uganda
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Comoros
Mauritius
Angola
Botswana
Malawi
Namibia
Swaziland
Zambia
Zimbabwe

All of these African countries are majority Chrisitian (apart from Mauritius which is majority Hindu) and all of them find same sex activity illegal. Punishment is either death or imprisonment.
I guess when you make shit up to suit your narrative it's easier to try and defend it.

From Wikipedia:
Islam in Niger accounts for the vast majority of the nation's religious adherents. The faith is practiced by more than 94% of the population,[1] although this figure varies by source and percentage of the population who are classified as Animist.
According to the ACS-Italia[3], around 51.6% of Eritrea's population in 2017 adhered to Islam, and 46.4% followed Christianity.
Islam is the largest and majority religion in Sierra Leone. Based on the 2015 Pew Research Center research, 78℅ of Sierra Leone's population is Muslim
According to the 2006 estimate by the U.S. Department of State, roughly 98% of the population in the Comoros are Muslim. Virtually all Muslims in the Comoros are Sunni belonging to Shafi'i school of jurisprudence.
Nigeria has the largest Muslim population in West Africa, with The CIA estimates 50%[1] while the BBC estimates slightly over 50% (2007).
Islam is the main religion in Guinea, followed by an estimated 85% of the population.
Senegal is a secular state Islam is the predominant religion in the country, practiced by approximately 92% of the country's population; the Christian community, at 7% of the population, are mostly Roman Catholics but there are still diverse Protestant denominations. One percent have animist beliefs, particularly in the southeastern region of the country. Some Serer people follow the Serer religion.
 

luigimario

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I guess when you make shit up to suit your narrative it's easier to try and defend it.

From Wikipedia:
Fair enough, I was mistaken for a FEW of the countries listed, I can admit that I should've done some more research on the demographics of those countries, but what about the others? You didn't seem to address that?
 

luigimario

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All your sources are Israeli: Jpost, Israel national news, MEMRI tv, or tabloids like Dailymail or the Express...

Atleast find some decent sources and actual fatwa by a mainstream sunni scholar, not an extremist. You can find extremists that say anything.

There are rabbis in Israel that say killing goyim/gentile/non-jewish children is completely permissable in Judaism. I don't think you will now think that a) Killing children is permissable in mainstream Judaism and b) That the jews are being commanded to kill children? Well apply that same logic and reasoning to people of other faiths.

So the challenge is a mainstream islamic scholar that says raping is A-Ok!. Not dailymail/Memri Tv nonsense.
 

Boss Mog

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Fair enough, I was mistaken for a FEW of the countries listed, I can admit that I should've done some more research on the demographics of those countries, but what about the others? You didn't seem to address that?
Wow you capitalized "FEW" for emphasis. So I guess 7 and by extension 33% ( since 7 represents about one third of the countries that you listed) are a "FEW" to you. Well I hate to tell you but to the majority of people neither 7 nor 33% are seen as a "FEW". What was there for me to address exactly? That some majority christian third world countries have shitty laws against gays? What exactly am I supposed to dispute there? It's true. But of the 72 countries that punish homosexuality in the world, the majority are muslim dominated countries.
 
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take_it_easy

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It's a shame Europe's desire to be "tolerant" has led them to import so many backwards thinking people. Good for Switzerland for standing up for themselves.
 

luigimario

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Wow you capitalized "FEW" for emphasis. So I guess 7 and by extension 33% ( since 7 represents about one third of the countries that you listed) are a "FEW" to you. Well I hate to tell you but to the majority of people neither 7 nor 33% are seen as a "FEW". What was there for me to address exactly? That some majority christian third world countries have shitty laws against gays? What exactly am I supposed to dispute there? It's true. But of the 72 countries that punish homosexuality in the world, the majority are muslim dominated countries.
Well that was my point, that this isn't an exclusively "islamic" problem, but more of an "ignorance" problem. An ILGA report on 2017 said that there is NO country in the world, which is free from discrimination and violence against LGBT community. So let's agree that there is a problem with the way human beings are treated for things like sexuality, and let's try to address it together. I am already campaigning for pro-LGBT groups here in the UK, and I hope you are doing the same in your country.
 

Boss Mog

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Well that was my point, that this isn't an exclusively "islamic" problem, but more of an "ignorance" problem. An ILGA report on 2017 said that there is NO country in the world, which is free from discrimination and violence against LGBT community. So let's agree that there is a problem with the way human beings are treated for things like sexuality, and let's try to address it together. I am already campaigning for pro-LGBT groups here in the UK, and I hope you are doing the same in your country.
While I strongly support equal rights for LGBT people and strongly condemn discrimination against LGBT people, I certainly don't support agenda-driven pro-LGBT organizations. So, you're in the UK, I can only assume you support the Labour party based on your posts on this forum. It does help me understand your fervent defense of islam though, seeing as how Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn is such a fan of islam that he is often seen associating with known islmaic terrorists and terrorist supporters. Just today another one was uncovered in fact: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6072573/Jeremy-Corbyn-pictured-alongside-terrorist-Tunisia.html
 
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Liljagare

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Neither are we saying that.

We view homosexuality in the same way we view someone who is born a paraplegic, someone that needs help.


This sounds like a defence speech from a redneck in Tennessee, I am sorry, but seriously, no, in Islamic nations gays are killed for what they are, by the thousands each year.

Not a attack on you, but what you are writing isn't true. If you kill someone for something that they are, you are in the wrong, and it happens way too much in Islamic nations.

Oppression and persecution doesn't belong in the modern world, Islam needs to adapt.

In a way, Islam is like the Catholic church without the reformation, the reformation never happened in Islam, and it needs to happen in order to stop the 2/3 of muslims supporting Shariah laws.
 
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cryptoadam

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All your sources are Israeli: Jpost, Israel national news, MEMRI tv, or tabloids like Dailymail or the Express...

Atleast find some decent sources and actual fatwa by a mainstream sunni scholar, not an extremist. You can find extremists that say anything.

There are rabbis in Israel that say killing goyim/gentile/non-jewish children is completely permissable in Judaism. I don't think you will now think that a) Killing children is permissable in mainstream Judaism and b) That the jews are being commanded to kill children? Well apply that same logic and reasoning to people of other faiths.

So the challenge is a mainstream islamic scholar that says raping is A-Ok!. Not dailymail/Memri Tv nonsense.
Of course you have issue with the sources. And whats the issue with Jpost aside that is has the word "jerusalem" in it? The paper has been around since 1932 (It was called the Palestinian post back then).

Anyways I am guessing you speak Arabic so let me know if the translation below by Memri is incorrect and what they mistranslated.

According to Wiki Saud Salih is professor at Al-Azhar Univeristy, which according to Wiki

Egypt's oldest degree-granting university and is renowned as "Sunni Islam’s most prestigious university".[1] In addition to higher education, Al-Azhar oversees a national network of schools with approximately two million students.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Azhar_University

If Saud is a professor at one of Egypts oldest and most prestigious university she is probably somewhat on the mainstream no?

Here is a BBC story with a bit of both sides

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4640905.stm

A ruling by a Muslim seminary in India that a woman allegedly raped by her father-in law must separate from her husband has been met with protests.
The religious edict or fatwa was issued by the Darul-Uloom Deoband, a powerful Islamic school which was established more than 150 years ago.
The Deoband school promote a radical brand of Islam which is said to have inspired the Taleban in Afghanistan.
But other Muslim bodies in India have opposed its latest ruling.

The alleged rape attracted widespread attention after reports that reports that a Muslim council of community elders had ordered the victim to marry her father-in-law.
In its ruling the Darul-Uloom Deoband did not endorse the village council's order that the victim had to marry her father-in-law but said she could no longer live with her husband.
"She had a physical relationship with her father-in-law. It does not matter if it was consensual or forced," Mohammad Masood Madani, a cleric at Deoband, told Reuters.
Washington times?

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/3/islamic-cleric-decrees-it-ok-syrian-rebels-rape-wo/

An Islamic cleric has cleared the path for rebels in Syria, who are trying to oust President Bashar Assad, to rape women, so long as they’re non-Sunni.
Salafi Sheikh Yasir al-Ajlawni, who hails from Jordan but who lived in Damascus for 17 years, sent a message via YouTube: It’s a “legitimate fatwa” for Muslims waging war against Mr. Assad and trying to put in place a Sharia government to “capture and have sex with” Alawites and other non-Sunni, non-Muslim women, Human Events reports. Mr. Assad is part of the Alawites sect.
In the video, the cleric called non-Muslim women by their Arabic term, “melk al-yamin,” Human Events reports. The term is from the Koran and refers to non-Muslim sex slaves, Human Events says.
This isn’t the first time Islamists have called for the raping of women.
A preacher in Saudi Arabi, Muhammad al-Arifi, sent forth a fatwa a few months ago giving jihadi fighters the right to have “intercourse marriage” with Syrian women they caught, and for that act to take enough time “to give each fighter a turn,” Human Events reports.
CNN ?

https://www.cnn.com/2013/02/17/world/meast/lebanon-womens-rights-law/index.html

Lebanese women are taking to the streets to demand that the government takes domestic violence seriously, by introducing laws to protect women from abusive partners.
For the past year and a half, Mouwad and fellow feminist activists have been demanding that politicians ignore the objections of Muslim religious authorities and pass a stalled law protecting women from domestic violence.
A draft version of the Law to Protect Women from Family Violence was approved by Lebanon's Cabinet in 2010, but has since become bogged down in parliament, mainly due to the objections of Sunni and Shia authorities.

The initial version of the bill was drafted to criminalize physical and sexual abuse, so-called "honor crimes" and marital rape, create specially-trained domestic violence response units within the police, and provide the legal framework for restraining orders to be issued against abusers.

But Lebanon's religious courts -- the judicial authorities presiding over each of the country's faith communities, with jurisdiction over matters of "personal status," including marriage problems -- have criticized the proposed law as an attempt to erode their authority.
Dar al-Fatwa, Lebanon's top Sunni authority, and the Higher Shi'a Islamic Council both said that they opposed the draft on the basis that Sharia law protected the status of women, and should remain the basis for governing legal issues related to Muslim families.
Domestic violence cases in Lebanon are typically heard in the religious courts, which often respond with rulings focused on preserving the family unit, rather protecting women from violence.

It's a response that abused women are usually met with from police as well, says Lebanese lawyer Amer Badreddine.
"They are told to solve the problem amicably, to keep it a family issue and not cause embarrassment to themselves by bringing it to the police," said Badreddine, who specializes in domestic violence cases.
He said the law also failed to recognize marital rape as a crime -- a position that some Muslim judges argue should be upheld.
Sure not a Fatwa but court rulings are on the same level for us westerners.

Not every muslim thinks this way but you wanted to bring forward examples and I provided them. I said take the source as you will but if you would like to read the articles and then let me know what they got wrong I am more than willing to listen. Most of them say allegedly so its very possible that the stories aren't true, but its also possible they are true.

and to do your own work for you from the other side

https://www.newsweek.com/gathering-female-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-child-marriage-rape-591442

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/muslim-women-issue-fatwas-banning-child-marriage-rape/news-story/0a463f5c17e798ff2639d1edf4d2fc87

So it looks like some women are standing up to it, but why would they have to issue fawa's against child marriage, rape and marital rape if it wasn't an issue at all and was only a small group of extremists who believed this? An entire conference of women clerics one of the largest held decided it needed to issue these fatwa's for no reason at all?
 

cryptoadam

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So like, you don't ever gang up and beat them to death?

This sounds like a defence speech from a redneck in Tennessee, I am sorry, but seriously, no, in Islamic nations gays are killed for what they are, by the thousands each year.

Not a attack on you, but what you are writing isn't true. If you kill someone for something that they are, you are in the wrong, and it happens way too much in Islamic nations.

Oppression and persecution doesn't belong in the modern world, Islam needs to adapt.

In a way, Islam is like the Catholic church without the reformation, the reformation never happened in Islam, and it needs to happen in order to stop the 2/3 of muslims supporting Shariah laws.
take a look at ismaili muslims. They are reformed and adapt easily into the cultures they go to. There women aren't required to wear veils or headscarves or any of those things.
 

Yoshi

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Funny, I disagree with the dicision in Sweden (refusing to shake hands, especially in an exposed position in a European company is potentiella damaging to the company, so the company has a legitimate interest not to hire someone who refuses to shake hands for non-health related reasons), but I also disagree with the one in Switzerland (it is no one else's business who one wants to shake hands with; it may be perceived as rude, but being rude is not particularly "un-swiss".
 

Liljagare

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take a look at ismaili muslims. They are reformed and adapt easily into the cultures they go to. There women aren't required to wear veils or headscarves or any of those things.
They are not a problem, the 2/3 of the muslims that support Shariah laws are. Thats 2/3 out of 1.6 billion people that would make Torquemada into something that is a idol?!

The peacefull majority are irrelevant.


You need to look at this:


On a sidenote, I always admired a older group of Islam, the Moors. did you know that during their reign in Spain, a unique incident happened in a city called Sevilla. It is the only time known, that Christians, Jews, and Muslims worked together to advance science, religion and social knowledge together, as a group, in peace.

Then the Catholics wanted Spain back.. :(
 
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Monsterkillah

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They are not a problem, the 2/3 of the muslims that support Shariah laws are. Thats 2/3 out of 1.6 billion people that would make Torquemada into something that is a idol?!

The peacefull majority are irrelevant.


You need to look at this:


On a sidenote, I always admired a older group of Islam, the Moors. did you know that during their reign in Spain, a unique incident happened in a city called Sevilla. It is the only time known, that Christians, Jews, and Muslims worked together to advance science, religion and social knowledge together, as a group, in peace.

Then the Catholics wanted Spain back.. :(

What the hell are you talking about ?

The Moors enslaved alot of Spanish people and intend to expand it further into other part of europe

Turned and took underaged kids into their very own brainwashed mercenaries bodyguard

The Catholic under Aragorn are the national hero and won back their own homeland from invaders
 
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iBuzzati

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On a sidenote, I always admired a older group of Islam, the Moors. did you know that during their reign in Spain, a unique incident happened in a city called Sevilla. It is the only time known, that Christians, Jews, and Muslims worked together to advance science, religion and social knowledge together, as a group, in peace.

Then the Catholics wanted Spain back.. :(
It's amazing that you can be this ignorant. Southern Europeans were tortured, brutalized, and enslaved for as long as 700 years by Moors. It was hardly peaceful.
 
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TheExorzist

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If they insist on stuff like this then can someone explain me WHY THE FUCK THEY EVEN WANT TO BE IN SWITZERLAND IN THE FIRST PLACE??
 

danielberg

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When a new possible home one of the safest and richest places in the world no less is not even worth a handshake than integration was out of question anyway.
 
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cryptoadam

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If they insist on stuff like this then can someone explain me WHY THE FUCK THEY EVEN WANT TO BE IN SWITZERLAND IN THE FIRST PLACE??
because most of their home countries are backwards shit holes. Which is ironic since they want to escape from those shit holes which are backwards exactly because of these extreme beliefs. So instead of embracing western values that afford them the chance at a rich comfortable fair life they would rather keep the backwards values that have destroyed the countries they come from.
 

TheShadowLord

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They are not a problem, the 2/3 of the muslims that support Shariah laws are. Thats 2/3 out of 1.6 billion people that would make Torquemada into something that is a idol?!

The peacefull majority are irrelevant.


You need to look at this:


On a sidenote, I always admired a older group of Islam, the Moors. did you know that during their reign in Spain, a unique incident happened in a city called Sevilla. It is the only time known, that Christians, Jews, and Muslims worked together to advance science, religion and social knowledge together, as a group, in peace.

Then the Catholics wanted Spain back.. :(
I am sure there is a monty python joke in here somewhere.But I think if leaders want to try using science diplomacy, it could reunite the old Abraham religions again as long as it is for the better on all sides.
Not unless they live in a country like in Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan as my googling shows up
 
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luigimario

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While I strongly support equal rights for LGBT people and strongly condemn discrimination against LGBT people, I certainly don't support agenda-driven pro-LGBT organizations. So, you're in the UK, I can only assume you support the Labour party based on your posts on this forum. It does help me understand your fervent defense of islam though, seeing as how Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn is such a fan of islam that he is often seen associating with known islmaic terrorists and terrorist supporters. Just today another one was uncovered in fact: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6072573/Jeremy-Corbyn-pictured-alongside-terrorist-Tunisia.html
While I strongly support equal rights for LGBT people and strongly condemn discrimination against LGBT people, I certainly don't support agenda-driven pro-LGBT organizations. So, you're in the UK, I can only assume you support the Labour party based on your posts on this forum. It does help me understand your fervent defense of islam though, seeing as how Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn is such a fan of islam that he is often seen associating with known islmaic terrorists and terrorist supporters. Just today another one was uncovered in fact: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6072573/Jeremy-Corbyn-pictured-alongside-terrorist-Tunisia.html
"Agenda driven pro-LGBT organisations"? Ah you take the side of the businesses being able to discriminate against gay people?
You're a Trump supporter aren't you? Makes alot of sense.
As for Corbyn, he was at a grave yard, commemorating the death of Palestinians victims, who couldn't even be buried in their own land.
 
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Boss Mog

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"Agenda driven pro-LGBT organisations"? Ah you take the side of the businesses being able to discriminate against gay people?
You're a Trump supporter aren't you? Makes alot of sense.
As for Corbyn, he was at a grave yard, commemorating the death of Palestinians victims, who couldn't even be buried in their own land.
Sorry but you're 0 for 2 there.

I do not support Trump, I dislike him quite a bit in fact even though I might agree with him on some issues. I dislike Hilary just as much though. I only voted twice in my life and both of those times were for Obama.

And as for Corbyn, it has been proved that he was yards away from the victims he was supposedly honoring and instead laying a wreath for terrorist masterminds that planned the Munich attack: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6061281/Definitive-proof-Jeremy-Corbyn-standing-graves-Munich-terrorists-wreath-laying.html
 
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luigimario

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Sorry but you're 0 for 2 there.

I do not support Trump, I dislike him quite a bit in fact even though I might agree with him on some issues. I dislike Hilary just as much though. I only voted twice in my life and both of those times were for Obama.

And as for Corbyn, it has been proved that he was yards away from the victims he was supposedly honoring and instead laying a wreath for terrorist masterminds that planned the Munich attack: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6061281/Definitive-proof-Jeremy-Corbyn-standing-graves-Munich-terrorists-wreath-laying.html
I watched his interview on Channel 4 News, I'd take his account of the story over the DailyMail's.

And do you support the bakery in discriminating against gay couples?
 

Boss Mog

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Dec 12, 2013
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I watched his interview on Channel 4 News, I'd take his account of the story over the DailyMail's.

And do you support the bakery in discriminating against gay couples?
I certainly don't approve the owners policies but I believe a private business has the right to choose who they do business with. The government shouldn't step in and take away his freedom. But at the same time myself and others are free not to give him our business and if his bakery goes under then he'll have nobody to blame but himself for his own policies that led to its demise. The same goes for Alex Jones. Google, Twitter, Facebook, etc are all private companies that can choose who they want to do business with. If they don't want Alex Jones on their platform, they're totally entitled to remove him. If he doesn't like it, let him make his own platform where he can say whatever he wants.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Apr 9, 2009
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Good for the Swiss.

I feel muslims should be welcomed to live in and practice their faith here in the west. They can and often are valuable members of society.

But you have to adapt your values to ours, at least when it comes to fundamentals like not segregatin the sexes.
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
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And you haven't been to countries with Sharia at state level, have you?

At least we got this video from one of those African countries >.>
That guy certainly likes to teach people about his fetishes.
 
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Lupingosei

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Oct 24, 2017
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As a Swiss, I should explain a few things. It is not about the handshake. Actually most Swiss don't even like to shake hands that much.

But it is a great test, however. Are you willing to accept the values of a country?

In Switzerland we had some problems with children not shaking the hands of their teachers. While I personally always hated the handshaking with my students while I was still teaching in elementary school (because honestly a lot of kids have filthy hands), it is a good ritual within elementary schools. Teachers and students can also exchange a few words, like "well done today", "don't forget your homework" and other things. Usually, it is done in the morning and before kids leave in the afternoon.

It is a ritual, but because of some morons, it has become a political thing. Some imams wanted to somehow politize the handshake and told a family with two boys, that they should not shake the hand of their female teacher. It was never about the handshake it was part of a power struggle, to check out how far they could go.

Schools are complicated anyway. We have mixed physical education in Switzerland and for quite some time some religious people tried to get their daughters out of this, because of the swimming lessons kids have to visit. But after too many exceptions courts and school administrations stopped this and now everybody has to go, without exceptions. After that fathers refused to talk to female teachers of their kids, also because of religious reasons. In elementary schools in Switzerland, you will find mostly female teachers, so it was not only an attack on them but also another attempt to push people into accepting different rules for them.

So the whole thing is more complicated than just a handshake.
 

Liljagare

Member
May 8, 2013
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I am sure there is a monty python joke in here somewhere.But I think if leaders want to try using science diplomacy, it could reunite the old Abraham religions again as long as it is for the better on all sides.
Where would the humour be?

Not sure if you are joking, o_0

The not so nice folks who follow Sharia want to outright kill jews and homosexuals. I fail to see the fun in there.

In Sweden, some towns are being emptied of Jews because the Muslims are harrassing and threatening them. Jews are fleeing, from Sweden.

Is that funny for you?? This is happening, in fucking Sweden, not the middle east. Islam and Shariah is not some humours belief, its disgusting.
 
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Liljagare

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May 8, 2013
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What the hell are you talking about ?

The Moors enslaved alot of Spanish people and intend to expand it further into other part of europe

Turned and took underaged kids into their very own brainwashed mercenaries bodyguard

The Catholic under Aragorn are the national hero and won back their own homeland from invaders

Please remember that the church hated the Moors.

Justification to go to war existed way back.

Spain after that then used kids in the mines.. :\ Hell, it's even in the official Asturias region lets visit for tourists, "In Teruel, Region of Aragón, don't miss the Escucha Mining Museum, designed to make you feel like a miner for a day. ".
 
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TheGreatYosh

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Jul 19, 2018
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This is good and all, but their reasoning leaves much to be desired. Reasoning should be (We shake hands in this culture.) If you don’t want to be apart of this culture then this is not the place for you.
 

TheGreatYosh

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Jul 19, 2018
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Where would the humour be?

Not sure if you are joking, o_0

The not so nice folks who follow Sharia want to outright kill jews and homosexuals. I fail to see the fun in there.

In Sweden, some towns are being emptied of Jews because the Muslims are harrassing and threatening them. Jews are fleeing, from Sweden.

Is that funny for you?? This is happening, in fucking Sweden, not the middle east. Islam and Shariah is not some humours belief, its disgusting.
Hahaha. Yeah, it’s just Jews and homosexuals they want to kill.
 
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Liljagare

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It's amazing that you can be this ignorant. Southern Europeans were tortured, brutalized, and enslaved for as long as 700 years by Moors. It was hardly peaceful.
Says the catholic church, modern finds find that it wasn't the case.

And lets not kid, the spanish inquisition and Torquemada, wasnt exactly a decent period for the population either.

But catholics like to forget about that.
 
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Monsterkillah

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Aug 12, 2018
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Please remember that the church hated the Moors.

Justification to go to war existed way back.

Spain after that then used kids in the mines.. :\ Hell, it's even in the official Asturias region lets visit for tourists, "In Teruel, Region of Aragón, don't miss the Escucha Mining Museum, designed to make you feel like a miner for a day. ".

You re still distorting history in your previous post

The Moors aren't liberators and peacekeeper they're invaders
 
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Liljagare

Member
May 8, 2013
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You re still distorting history in your previous post

The Moors aren't liberators and peacekeeper they're invaders
Yes, but they werent the evil doers that you state, and the catholic "?liberators" didnt treat the population any better.

The disgusting treatment of the Moor civilians by the king and queen is probarly why Shariah was born.

And you do remember that Torquemada actually was a Spaniard, right? The guy wanted and did kill the jews and Moors in Spain. Was that good for the populace and nation?
 
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Monsterkillah

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Aug 12, 2018
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Yes, but they werent the evil doers that you state, and the catholic "?liberators" didnt treat the population any better.

The disgusting treatment of the Moor civilians by the king and queen is probarly why Shariah was born.

And you do remember that Torquemada actually was a Spaniard, right? The guy wanted and did kill the jews and Moors in Spain. Was that good for the populace and nation?
Sharia laws was born long before the war between Moors and Spanish citizen stop making another fabricated stories

Are you an sjw/ liberals ?

I noticed your from Swedden one of the immigrant supporting country, not surprised to see your stance on this matters with the Moors ocupying Southern Europe, this is probably another diversity cultural enrichment according to you
 
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ILLtown

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Jul 7, 2018
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I don't get why so many lefties go to bat for Islam, an ulltra-conservative bronze age death cult that ought to be against everything they believe in. I mean, you have a guy in here saying that homosexuality is not normal and that if you commit a homosexual act, under Islam that's some kind of "crime", and despite this being the majority view in Islam, lefties STILL defend this utter fucking obviously made up and plagiarised horse dong of a religion.
 

O-N-E

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Jul 11, 2018
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Refusing to shake the opposite gender's hand is not harmful, nor is it gender inequality when a man can't touch a woman and a woman can't touch a man. Sounds equal.

This is stupid.
 

JordanN

Junior Member
Apr 21, 2012
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If they insist on stuff like this then can someone explain me WHY THE FUCK THEY EVEN WANT TO BE IN SWITZERLAND IN THE FIRST PLACE??
This.

I had a debate in another thread about immigration, where I pointed out that countries should have a right to preserve their culture. I was told that doing so is "cultural superiority".
But all I see is both parties losing in this scenario. If Muslims are moving to a country that clearly isn't pro-Islam, then why the hell did you leave your own country to begin with, to move to another one that doesn't support your beliefs?

It becomes a point of agitation when the only solution is for our countries (Western Nations) have to keep bending backwards for the rest of the world. I have no problems with people who move here legally and actually integrate. But if the end game is for every Western country is to become Islamic because no one wants to draw a line between acceptable and not acceptable, then screw that.
 
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Tapioca

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Aug 17, 2017
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Refusing to shake the opposite gender's hand is not harmful, nor is it gender inequality when a man can't touch a woman and a woman can't touch a man. Sounds equal.

This is stupid.
It might not be "gender inequality" but it sure is a personal freedom issue. Switzerland is not Saudi Arabia and probably has no desire to become that.
 

iBuzzati

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Jun 14, 2018
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Says the catholic church, modern finds find that it wasn't the case.

And lets not kid, the spanish inquisition and Torquemada, wasnt exactly a decent period for the population either.

But catholics like to forget about that.

This is common historical knowledge not a conspiracy by the catholic church. What are they teaching you guys up in Sweden?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Spain
"During the Al-Andalus (also known as Muslim Spain or Islamic Iberia), the Moors controlled much of the peninsula. They imported white Christian slaves from the 8th century until the end of the Reconquista in the late 15th century.The slaves were exported from the Christian section of Spain, as well as Eastern Europe,sparking significant reaction from many in Christian Spain and many Christians still living in Muslim Spain. As the Muslims followed the same technique as Romans to capture slaves; seeking cities to ally with them. Soon after, Muslims were successful, taking Christian captives of 30,000 from Spain. In the eighth century slavery lasted longer due to “frequent cross-border skirmishes, interspersed between periods of major campaigns.”. By the tenth century, in the eastern Mediterranean Byzantine Christian’s were captured by Muslims. Many of the raids designed by Muslims were created for a fast captive of prisoners. Therefore, Muslims restricted the control in order to keep captives from fleeing. The Iberian peninsula served as a base for further exports of slaves into other Muslim regions in Northern Africa.[11]"
 
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O-N-E

Member
Jul 11, 2018
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It might not be "gender inequality" but it sure is a personal freedom issue. Switzerland is not Saudi Arabia and probably has no desire to become that.
How is it a personal freedom issue? Who's personal freedom is being attacked? No-one is forcing you to do anything.

If you want someone to touch your dick, but they don't, is your personal freedom being attacked? Or are they just not touching your dick because they don't want to?

I'll repeat, this is stupid.
 

Greedings

Member
May 23, 2016
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Humanity needs to move on from religion.

It breeds legit retards.
You mean all the retards that helped build the world from ancient times all the way up until the modern era?

I’m not a religious person but I think your opinion is shitty. It’s not religion that breeds idiots, there are idiots in all walks of life. Just look at the atheist community. They’re certainly not devoid of idiots.
 

JordanN

Junior Member
Apr 21, 2012
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You mean all the retards that helped build the world from ancient times all the way up until the modern era?

I’m not a religious person but I think your opinion is shitty. It’s not religion that breeds idiots, there are idiots in all walks of life. Just look at the atheist community. They’re certainly not devoid of idiots.
I think when it comes to extremism, religion far out paces atheism in that regard. I can't remember the last time an atheist drove into a crowd of people or committed mass suicide Jonestown style.

That said, that doesn't mean Atheists aren't capable of destruction. The Soviet Union was godless but it's still a shithole.
 
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Greedings

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May 23, 2016
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I’m not even sure if you can classify the Soviet Union as a-religious. Sure atheist, but the cult of personality around Stalin was almost a religion.

Extremism I completely agree with. It’s rare to find violent irreligious people, the only example I can think of is the whole of the French Revolution where they murdered priests and aristocrats under the guise of reason.

Nonetheless, stupidity has nothing to do with religion. Extremism does.
 

luigimario

Banned
Apr 3, 2018
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I certainly don't approve the owners policies but I believe a private business has the right to choose who they do business with. The government shouldn't step in and take away his freedom. But at the same time myself and others are free not to give him our business and if his bakery goes under then he'll have nobody to blame but himself for his own policies that led to its demise. The same goes for Alex Jones. Google, Twitter, Facebook, etc are all private companies that can choose who they want to do business with. If they don't want Alex Jones on their platform, they're totally entitled to remove him. If he doesn't like it, let him make his own platform where he can say whatever he wants.
Let's say you got your wish, then what what stop a store owner from serving black people? Do you think that would be OK? Because the only reason black people are served in the USA now, especially in the south, is because of law requiring them to....