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Syrian Civil War |OT|

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liger05

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Sep 5, 2009
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The most powerful of the brigades, militarily anyway, is arguably Jabhat al-Nusra, which I don't think is receiving any particular state's backing. Saudi influence is arguably more through the tribal confederacies and indirect arms shipments than anything else. You know, all of a sudden a bunch of Steyr rifles turn up after a guard group in Saudi decommissions them in favour of a worse rifle.

People think that the Saudi state is automatically in favour of Islamist factions, forgetting that an increase in Wahabbism doesn't necessarily benefit a regime already constantly walking a tightrope with the Majlis.

They are one actor amongst many, their influence being different to states like Turkey and the United States. I mean even France, since Hollande, is taking an active role in trying to turn the fighting their way.
The State of Saudi Arabia have no desire to see JAN or ISIS be the dominant resistance groups in Syria. Why anyone would think that amazes me. Saudi would love to see a group like Ahrar ash-Sham turn against ISIS and JAN. I have no doubt they have probably been asked by KSA to do just that and they have declined.

There are players who are looking to start a Sahwa like what happened in Iraq in 06-07.

More here for those that speak Arabic

http://t.co/m2zV1vPxgE
 

MisterFalcon

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Mar 12, 2013
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It is and the contrast is striking when you compare it to the same author talking about Arabs being killed by non-Arabs. In the sidebar a listing of all deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan is listed as 'innocent victims of the US wars' as if not a single person killed in this coutry wasn't an innocent civilian.

edit Afghanistan is not Arab so I should say Muslims killed by non-Muslims.
 
Jun 7, 2013
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It is and the contrast is striking when you compare it to the same author talking about Arabs being killed by non-Arabs. In the sidebar a listing of all deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan is listed as 'innocent victims of the US wars' as if not a single person killed in this coutry wasn't an innocent civilian.

edit Afghanistan is not Arab so I should say Muslims killed by non-Muslims.

Umm did you actually read those links? Do you know anything? They aren't by him but by organizations that are seen as legit. iraqbodycount is one of the most conservative and sourced places to know how many civilians have died due to the US invasion.

Anyways, the link was to a blog post commenting on a regularly used source SOHR with a link directly to the claim. So I guess you didn't read it nor did you consider the criticism towards SOHR.
 

curlyfriski

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It is and the contrast is striking when you compare it to the same author talking about Arabs being killed by non-Arabs. In the sidebar a listing of all deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan is listed as 'innocent victims of the US wars' as if not a single person killed in this coutry wasn't an innocent civilian.

edit Afghanistan is not Arab so I should say Muslims killed by non-Muslims.
Those links go to civilian death toll estimates, so the title makes perfect sense.
 

GSG Flash

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liger05

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Looks like they may have pulled that article because I can't find it anywhere on the front page. Not sure that's a reputable site anyways.

BBC has reported that there's fighting going on between Kurds and the rebels in northern Syria. Would rather take the BBC's word.
It wasnt denying that there is a battle between the PKK and the rebels. That is well known and inshallah the PKK will continue to suffer.

There was unconfirmed reports that over 400 civilians were massacred by ISIS. Kurd watch said no such thing happened. The link takes you right to there press release.
 
Oct 24, 2012
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Agreed Phosphor. I think I've watched a video of different battalion leaders also discussing the ongoing policy against the PKK and the Kurds.

Here it is.

It's in arabic.

Basicly he is saying that the PKK always break the deals that they make with the FSA & Others. This time there is no mercy for them. He makes it clear though that this isn't targeted at all Kurds as they have many Kurdish comrades but only for the PKK.
 
Jun 7, 2013
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Agreed Phosphor. I think I've watched a video of different battalion leaders also discussing the ongoing policy against the PKK and the Kurds.

Here it is.

It's in arabic.

Basicly he is saying that the PKK always break the deals that they make with the FSA & Others. This time there is no mercy for them. He makes it clear though that this isn't targeted at all Kurds as they have many Kurdish comrades but only for the PKK.
Didn't they massacre a bunch of awallite villages and say they wherent targetting awallites? You guys are pretty desperate to salvage the bullshit terrorists Fee syrian army's image.
 
Oct 24, 2012
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I've never ever, ever, put a user from NeoGAF on my ignore list as I've always worried that they may some time, in some thread, come with a post that is well thought off, well articulated, knowledgable, funny or otherwise positive in some way that I might miss.

You are the only user that I'm 99% sure of, that I wouldn't mind missing out on.

The Alawites might have been massacred as a part of the growing secterian killings. The Kurds though is a whole different deal as there is some all-Kurdish brigades or many Kurds in some brigades with the FSA. That is not the same as the Alawites. The Alawites and the Kurds situation is very different from each other.

Not to say that I trust or believe the guys in the video. I have no idea who they are and what or who they fight for. They may begin massacring Kurds tommorow for all I know, but saying that the situation of the Alawites and the Kurds is the same is wrong.
 
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I've never ever, ever, put a user from NeoGAF on my ignore list as I've always worried that they may some time, in some thread, come with a post that is well thought off, well articulated, knowledgable, funny or otherwise positive in some way that I might miss.

You are the only user that I'm 99% sure of, that I wouldn't mind missing out on.

The Alawites might have been massacred as a part of the growing secterian killings. The Kurds though is a whole different deal as there is some all-Kurdish brigades or many Kurds in some brigades with the FSA. That is not the same as the Alawites. The Alawites and the Kurds situation is very different from each other.

Not to say that I trust or believe the guys in the video. I have no idea who they are and what or who they fight for. They may begin massacring Kurds tommorow for all I know, but saying that the situation of the Alawites and the Kurds is the same is wrong.
So you admit it?
 
Oct 24, 2012
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that the fee syrian terrorist army is commiting ethnic cleansing and genocide.
Haha that seriously made me smile and giggle even though it shouldn't have. So much hyperbole it cannot be contained.

No I don't 'admit' that the 'Fee Syrian Terrorist Army' is commiting ethnic cleansing and genocide, because they aren't.

ISIS may have commited massacres in different cities, I personaly have no idea, but I have no reason to believe that the articles are false or otherwise fabricated.

I don't think you understand that I'm NOT taking this conflict as a black/white one. "I must defend the part that I support no matter what, overlooking whatever heinous things they have commited." That is not me. That is you though.
 
Jun 7, 2013
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That's Jabhat al-Nusra and they accuse the kids of being shabiha. Please don't make up descriptions.
If it's a bad thing then it's "JAN" if it's a good thing then its the "moderate" fee syrian terrorist army that shares it's weapons with JAN and ISIS. There is no difference.

Accusing someone ... children.. of being shabiha is just another way to say youre killing them for being awalite.
 

hym

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If it's a bad thing then it's "JAN" if it's a good thing then its the "moderate" fee syrian terrorist army that shares it's weapons with JAN and ISIS. There is no difference.

Accusing someone ... children.. of being shabiha is just another way to say youre killing them for being awalite.
Ah now I see, you're regurgitating As'ad AbuKhalil's blog and doing a poor job of it.

They don't share arms, they cooperate and sell arms. To say there is no difference is to imply the insurgency is not fragmented removing their most crucial weakness, even the free army itself lacks central coordination despite desperately pretending to be an actual army instead of the mess of hundreds of brigades each with their own agenda. The only thing they all share now is the same king paying their wages.
 

mercenar1e

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That's Jabhat al-Nusra and they accuse the kids of being shabiha. Please don't make up descriptions.

even if they are shabiha that's not an excuse to commit a war crime.. you should take a step back and realize that you come off as a prick and in my opinion the FSA and the JAN are almost one and the same
 

hym

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even if they are shabiha that's not an excuse to commit a war crime.. you should take a step back and realize that you come off as a prick and in my opinion the FSA and the JAN are almost one and the same
A prick for giving you a translation of a title.

Yeh let's just make stuff up instead.
 

hym

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Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham proudly showing their tactic to murder random civilians in drive-by shootings.

Those are your courageous Jihadis liger05, not even executing the alleged “infidels” anymore let alone if they bothered to target combatants you know like in an actual war, now they resorted to picking the cars they don't like because surely a devoted Sunni would never drive a silver Opel.

And these are the people FSA commanders celebrate victories with after months of failed attempts to capture a military base are finally achieved with some ISIS suicide bombers.

Surat Al-Mumtaĥanah 60:1 So simple yet none of those clowns manage to respect it, the money that paid for al-Qaeda guns also paid for those Egyptian army guns, same Saudi/US exploiters.

Tools without friends, Iran prevailed over Saddam with Syria's help, Syria will prevail with Iran's help.

14 year old "shabiha".
Yes that's what the degenerate supremacist accused them of as stated in the title, we can all make a guess at the actual reasons for it with good probability and I would bet on sectarian motives too but I will remind you they've executed Sunni children before for ridiculous bullshit like alleged blasphemy. ISIS has repeatedly stated that Shariah courts can disregarded during Jihad, obviously their world caliphate Jihad never ends.
 

phosphor112

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New weapons seeing use in Syria.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ywDpH5o1m58

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/crewserved/hj8.asp
HongJian 8EThis is the updated variant finalised for production in the mid-1990. The missile body is slightly longer to accommodate a new warhead and a modified motor to extend its range to 4,000m. The newly designed digitised fire control has increased the estimated hit accuracy to over 90%. The missile launcher is also fitted with the PTI-32 thermal image sight to replace the original IR sight for night combat
Also this truck captured by rebels in the last couple of days:

Guy speaking says it carry 4 missiles called SA8 so it's possibly this.

They look alot like each other so it may be it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K33_Osa
The SA-8 was the first mobile air defense missile system incorporating its own engagement radars on a single vehicle.
All versions of the 9K33 feature all-in-one 9A33 transporter erector launcher and radar (TELAR) vehicles which can detect, track and engage aircraft independently or with the aid of regimental surveillance radars. The six-wheeled transport vehicles BAZ-5937 are fully amphibious and air transportable. The road range is about 500 km.
EDIT: Also a SAF helicopter shot down using some kind of advanced Surface to Air missile system.
 
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Seems like the SAA has found a mass grave in Latakia of civilians. There bodies cremated to hide the story that the terrorists had committed a war crime based on sectarian hate.

Shame on the racists and terrorists of the fee syrian army and their al-queda allies!
 

phosphor112

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New weapons seeing use in Syria.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ywDpH5o1m58

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/crewserved/hj8.asp


Also this truck captured by rebels in the last couple of days:

Guy speaking says it carry 4 missiles called SA8 so it's possibly this.

They look alot like each other so it may be it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K33_Osa


EDIT: Also a SAF helicopter shot down using some kind of advanced Surface to Air missile system.
Hmm... interesting set of weapons to come across. Chinese stuff?

Seems like the SAA has found a mass grave in Latakia of civilians. There bodies cremated to hide the story that the terrorists had committed a war crime based on sectarian hate.

Shame on the racists and terrorists of the fee syrian army and their al-queda allies!
Link?
 

Cromat

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So apparently Assad didn't anticipate how many people would die from the chemical attack. He thought it would be another 30 or so like last time. The wind wasn't in his favor, poor guy.

If I told you two or three years ago that 1,000 people (or more) died in a chemical attack perpetrated by the ruler of Syria in the capital of Syria, and that no one is doing anything about it, no one would have believed me.
 

hym

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So apparently Assad didn't anticipate how many people would die from the chemical attack. He thought it would be another 30 or so like last time. The wind wasn't in his favor, poor guy.

If I told you two or three years ago that 1,000 people (or more) died in a chemical attack perpetrated by the ruler of Syria in the capital of Syria, and that no one is doing anything about it, no one would have believed me.
And you know this how? or does it originate from your darkest body cavity?

It's really funny how people are trying to rationalize this attack to fit in the nonsensical narrative that the Syrian army is behind this. It goes from an accident, to incompetence, to simply trying to taunt the US because how else would the timing make sense, they could have done it last week as well, rebels controlled the neighborhood there for months.

What kind of powerless ignorant fools do you take them for?

If Syria ever sees the strategic need to eliminate an imminent threat that can only be countered by a large scale chemical attack the first thing they will do is shut down internet and phone access, and setup ambushes on the highways for anyone trying to get out. Footage would eventually seep out but it would happen very gradually.

The military can be cruel, but stupid armies don't last.

Why don't they allow the U.N. to investigate asap then?

The army can't secure the area, another false flag attack would kill the UN team and take a wild guess who gets the blame AGAIN.
 

Minus_Me

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So apparently Assad didn't anticipate how many people would die from the chemical attack. He thought it would be another 30 or so like last time. The wind wasn't in his favor, poor guy.

If I told you two or three years ago that 1,000 people (or more) died in a chemical attack perpetrated by the ruler of Syria in the capital of Syria, and that no one is doing anything about it, no one would have believed me.
This isn't the first time Chemical Weapons have been used without any real action being taken.
 

phosphor112

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You two don't like Google?

Syrian Army discovers mass graves holding the victims of al-Qaeda's 'Latakia offensive'

Mass Grave Discovered in Latakia Province
Mass Grave Discovered in Lattakia Countryside

So that double bomb attack on the mosques in Tripoli, fans of the culprits were phoning in the results:

Should be just common courtesy. Thanks though.

So apparently Assad didn't anticipate how many people would die from the chemical attack. He thought it would be another 30 or so like last time. The wind wasn't in his favor, poor guy.

If I told you two or three years ago that 1,000 people (or more) died in a chemical attack perpetrated by the ruler of Syria in the capital of Syria, and that no one is doing anything about it, no one would have believed me.
We don't know who did it.

It would be great if people added links to their sources whenever they made bold claims. Did Assad claim responsibility for the chemical weapons attack?
Agreed, and no, he hasn't.
 
Oct 24, 2012
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You two don't like Google?

Syrian Army discovers mass graves holding the victims of al-Qaeda's 'Latakia offensive'

Mass Grave Discovered in Latakia Province
Mass Grave Discovered in Lattakia Countryside

So that double bomb attack on the mosques in Tripoli, fans of the culprits were phoning in the results:

Those sources aren't very objective to be honest.. The Syrian Observer ? Fars News ? Video of the SANA network ?

If I brought you links from sources that was as biased as those you would dismiss my post. Can you bring me an independend newspaper that talks about those mass graves ? If so I take all my words back.
 

hym

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Aug 10, 2011
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Those sources aren't very objective to be honest.. The Syrian Observer ? Fars News ? Video of the SANA network ?

If I brought you links from sources that was as biased as those you would dismiss my post. Can you bring me an independend newspaper that talks about those mass graves ? If so I take all my words back.
You make the same error the International Community does when dealing with the Syrian Government.

What makes you think I care for your words? Ok I kinda do because I have fucked up priorities but...

اللاذقية: مقابر جماعية تضم 200 جثة

العثور على مقبرة جماعية تحتوي جثثا لسوريين قتلهم إرهابيون في ريف اللاذقية الشمالي
 

Cromat

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And you know this how? or does it originate from your darkest body cavity?

It's really funny how people are trying to rationalize this attack to fit in the nonsensical narrative that the Syrian army is behind this. It goes from an accident, to incompetence, to simply trying to taunt the US because how else would the timing make sense, they could have done it last week as well, rebels controlled the neighborhood there for months.

What kind of powerless ignorant fools do you take them for?

If Syria ever sees the strategic need to eliminate an imminent threat that can only be countered by a large scale chemical attack the first thing they will do is shut down internet and phone access, and setup ambushes on the highways for anyone trying to get out. Footage would eventually seep out but it would happen very gradually.

The military can be cruel, but stupid armies don't last.

Why don't they allow the U.N. to investigate asap then?

The army can't secure the area, another false flag attack would kill the UN team and take a wild guess who gets the blame AGAIN.
I'm basing my claim among other things on what the two top Arab correspondents here in Israel said tonight. They went as far as to name the brigade in the Syrian Army who carried out the attack. You're going to attack the source, no doubt. Nonetheless what they said is the truth.

Interestingly, Israel is probably the only country that can be trusted to be completely impartial when it comes to this conflict, as it really doesn't care which side wins as long as it doesn't spill over.

Even if there wasn't clear indications that the regime was behind this, the 'false flag' accusation does not make any sense:

1) Word of advice: things are generally as they appear. Occam's Razor. If a murderous regime known to have chemical weapons is fighting against rebels (who are also murderous, no argument there), and in the course of that war the rebels are hit by a massive chemical weapons attack, then it is most likely the regime behind it. If you insist on the conspiracy (as I'm sure you will), please refer to what follows.

2) You're assuming that the various rebel groups have access to state-grade chemical weapons.

3) You're assuming that they have the technical capability to deliver this weapon on a missile.

4) You're assuming that having this incredible capability, they would choose to use it on themselves rather than their enemy to make Assad look bad.

5) You're assuming that the rebels need to work extra hard to make Assad look bad when in fact he is doing a fine job on his own.

6) You're assuming that the rebels would take this huge risk and make this insane sacrifice even though they know that making it look as if Assad had used chemical weapons is not guaranteed, and is even unlikely, to bring about invention by the international community.
 

hym

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Interestingly, Israel is probably the only country that can be trusted to be completely impartial when it comes to this conflict, as it really doesn't care which side wins as long as it doesn't spill over.


Haha funny guy, I like you, we will keep for last.
 

Cromat

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Haha funny guy, I like you, we will keep for last.
Do you think the other guys there are gonna be any nicer than him? The people who fired missiles at Israel from Lebanon yesterday did it to humiliate this guy.
For us it's a choice between Dracula and Frankenstein. Does it really matter? At least we're used to Dracula by now.
 

hym

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Do you think the other guys there are gonna be any nicer than him? The people who fired missiles at Israel from Lebanon yesterday did it to humiliate this guy.
For us it's a choice between Dracula and Frankenstein. Does it really matter? At least we're used to Dracula by now.
DUDE WAKE THE F UP

The Israeli government is in bed with those holding al-Qaeda's leash, when your ministers make deals with Iran like they do with Qatar and Saudi Arabia I will consider they hate them all equally. Right now... gtfo

Or do you want to claim al-Qaeda is buying MANPADS from K-Mart with private donations?
 

Cromat

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DUDE WAKE THE F UP

The Israeli government is in bed with those holding al-Qaeda's leash, when your ministers make deals with Iran like they do with Qatar and Saudi Arabia I will consider they hate them all equally. Right now... gtfo

Or do you want to claim al-Qaeda is buying MANPADS from K-Mart with private donations?
I wish the government would be in bed with someone. Unfortunately, when it comes to the Arab world, we were locked out of the bedroom a long time ago.

Your conspiracy theory doesn't make sense. If Israel is in bed with those holding al-Qaeda's leash, why are al-Qaeda affiliated groups shooting at us from Lebanon and Sinai? Guess the leash isn't tied up well.
Israel doesn't like Islamists, because Islamists all want us dead. al-Qaeda are Islamists and so is the Muslim Brotherhood. Turkey's antisemitic Prime Minister is also an Islamist. Bashar al-Assad is not an Islamist, however his best friends Hizbullah and Iran are Islamists, a fact you seem to be forgetting just because they are Shia or whatever.

Because Israel isn't too concerned with Islamic theology, it has an equal dislike of either school of Islamic fanaticism. Up until recently, Shia Islamists from Iran had no problems funding, training and supplying Sunni Islamists from Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

But all of a sudden we are 'in bed' with the Sunnis. Guess Hamas, Erdogan, the Muslim Brotherhood and random al-Qaeda groups didn't get the memo that we are now best friends.

Secondly, Israel is not pushing for an intervention in Syria, if anything it is cautious about the whole idea. You see, when NATO decides to start getting into Syria we are the ones who will likely get a rain of rockets on our heads. To go through all of that so that some crazy Jabhat al-Nusra people can rise to power? No thank you.
 
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