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Syrian Civil War |OT|

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Cromat

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Dec 29, 2006
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The best way to solve the problem is to go in a time machine, undo the European colonization and have the middle east peoples make countries and borders that reflect ethnic and cultural realities. Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, etc. are all awful amalgams of people who hate each other and can't get along but no one wants to break up the countries, either because the people in those countries want to grab power and rule over the whole thing, rather than just a piece, or the superpowers like USA, Europe, Russia, etc. oppose any change to the status quo.

I really dislike this attitude. It is incredibly patronizing to the region and its inhabitants, all in the guise of genuine concern. "Oh no, we greedy white men ruined these people! WHAT HAVE WE DONE". It's not about you, it's about them.

The best way to solve this problem would be for the people in the region to form societies where dissenting opinions are expressed and respected, and where human life is cherished.

Europe went from World War 2 with its genocide and atrocities to a united superstate organization within 50 years. The people in the Middle East could achieve something similar if they wanted.
 

Terra

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Jan 14, 2013
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The best way to solve this problem would be for the people in the region to form societies where dissenting opinions are expressed and respected, and where human life is cherished.

Europe went from World War 2 with its genocide and atrocities to a united superstate organization within 50 years. The people in the Middle East could achieve something similar if they wanted.

This is the solution. Seems weirdly hard to implement though.
 

Mii

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Oct 20, 2006
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Alert from WSJ "US rebuffs Syrian decision to provide UN inspectors access to sites bombed last week"

Well this is escalating fast
 
Oct 24, 2012
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I really dislike this attitude. It is incredibly patronizing to the region and its inhabitants, all in the guise of genuine concern. "Oh no, we greedy white men ruined these people! WHAT HAVE WE DONE". It's not about you, it's about them.

The best way to solve this problem would be for the people in the region to form societies where dissenting opinions are expressed and respected, and where human life is cherished.

Europe went from World War 2 with its genocide and atrocities to a united superstate organization within 50 years. The people in the Middle East could achieve something similar if they wanted.

And this opinion is similarly unknowledgable. The solution lies somewhere in between. Greedy white men did ruin a lot of things now it's time for the arabs to clean up after them and make some sense of it all. I do agree with you though on the point that something great can come out of it. But it sure as hell will take it's time, blood and tears before it gets realised.

Edit: dann why they refuse. This would kill alot of legitimacy if they decided to strike. I guess the Chemicals has passed from the area though since its been a couple of days now too.
 
Jul 14, 2012
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Edit: dann why they refuse. This would kill alot of legitimacy if they decided to strike. I guess the Chemicals has passed from the area though since its been a couple of days now too.

[...]
"If the Syrian government had nothing to hide and wanted to prove to the world that it had not used chemical weapons in this incident, it would have ceased its attacks on the area and granted immediate access to the U.N. five days ago," a senior Obama administration official said.

"At this juncture, the belated decision by the regime to grant access to the U.N. team is too late to be credible, including because the evidence available has been significantly corrupted as a result of the regime's persistent shelling and other intentional actions over the last five days," the official added.

The official said that—based on the reported number of victims, the reported symptoms of those who were killed or injured and other information—"there is very little doubt at this point that a chemical weapon was used by the Syrian regime against civilians in this incident."

The official said President Barack Obama is still assessing how to respond to "this indiscriminate use of chemical weapons."

The Pentagon has prepared military options for the White House that include cruise missile strikes on regime targets, officials said.
[...]
source
.
 
Oct 24, 2012
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Yup I should have read the article before adking that question! Thanks for the quote.

Well I guess this means US is going to attack. Syria crossed the red line in the eyes of the US. If they don't respond it's going to be taken as a sign of weakness by the Iran bloc.
 

fastford58

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Dec 14, 2008
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Yup I should have read the article before adking that question! Thanks for the quote.

Well I guess this means US is going to attack. Syria crossed the red line in the eyes of the US. If they don't respond it's going to be taken as a sign of weakness by the Iran bloc.

Putin: Don't do it.

Obama: Okay.

Probably for the better. Does the US really need to bomb another country?
 
Jul 14, 2012
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Putin: Don't do it.

Obama: Okay.

Probably for the better. Does the US really need to bomb another country?

"We have long agreed with Russia that a conference in Geneva is the best vehicle for moving towards a political solution," State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told a daily briefing for reporters. She did not offer a specific date for the meeting but said Wendy Sherman, undersecretary for political affairs at the State Department, would attend, along with U.S. Ambassador Robert Ford.

The Russian delegation is likely to include deputy foreign ministers Gennady Gatilov and Mikhail Bogdanov, Russian Interfax news agency reported. It quoted Gatilov as saying that the sides hoped to make progress on who should attend the conference.

Iran's participation in the so-called Geneva-2 conference is a thorny issue for the United States, which has condoned the presence of Iranian advisers aiding President Bashar al-Assad in the two-year civil war.
[...] source

They are meeting the The Hague next week. Chump-statements really piss me off considering how disrespectful it is to the people suffering from this conflict.
 

gutter_trash

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Feb 4, 2005
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it's a lose lose situation for the West. Damned if you do and damned if you don't

The risk arming the wrong factions is too great.

This is nothing like Lybia. Lybia was sparsely poplated, easier to pin point varying factions.

Syria is exponentially bigger, more complex, more heavily populated.
 
Jun 7, 2013
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No Israel bombed some anti ship missiles. A thing that would be useful if the USA was going to position some ships off Syria's cost to launch cruise missiles.
 
Oct 24, 2012
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No Israel bombed some anti ship missiles. A thing that would be useful if the USA was going to position some ships off Syria's cost to launch cruise missiles.
I don't think any have actually beed delivered and it may take a year for them to arrive. Russia probably does not have piles of the things in storage ready to ship out, the missiles Syria ordered first have to be built.
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Mi...ivered-syria-s-300s-report.ashx#axzz2d0AkRio0

he is talking about the one that Russia was supposed to deliver..i read putin put that ice for now

Didn't Israel bomb those? I think they got most of them, anyway.

They are postponed then. The delivarencr of those missiles could result in a whole powershift in the region to the Iran bloc. No one would dare to send airplanes into syrian airspace with hardware like that. The interesting bit is that the Russians doesn't seem to keen on the thought of that or maybe is afraid to step on the toes of Israel. Or maybe I've just spent 5 min on my phone typing out an pseudo-political analysis of the conflict that gets it all wrong. Who knows really ?

Thanks for the responses
 
Jun 7, 2013
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They are postponed then. The delivarencr of those missiles could result in a whole powershift in the region to the Iran bloc. No one would dare to send airplanes into syrian airspace with hardware like that. The interesting bit is that the Russians doesn't seem to keen on the thought of that or maybe is afraid to step on the toes of Israel. Or maybe I've just spent 5 min on my phone typing out an pseudo-political analysis of the conflict that gets it all wrong. Who knows really ?

Thanks for the responses

pseudo-political analysis. Giving Syria those missiles would not be a "whole powershift in the region to the Iran bloc". Iran is a third world nation that is being economically strangled by the most powerful countries in the world. It also has been bombarded with it's own form of chemical weapons and biological weapons when the USA started promoting opium growth in Afghanistan.

This whole notion that Iran is doing a thing is just war mongering craziness. Those missiles are defensive and using one of them, which costs millions of dollars each, is to defend against such things as sophisticated aerial attacks.
 

liger05

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http://mobile.reuters.com/do/urlRed...3/08/25/us-syria-rebels-idUSBRE97O07I20130825

Good luck with that. When will those in exile understand that this is an Islamic uprising and Islam is not going away. No doubt the long term plan is to try and fight the 'islamists' even though without the 'islamists' Assad would of crushed the rebels two years ago.

Jabhat an Nusra have claimed responsibility for the assassination of the governor of hama. 1st operation of the now 'eye for an eye' in retaliation for the chemical weapons massacre.
 

kobashi100

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Dec 6, 2007
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http://mobile.reuters.com/do/urlRed...3/08/25/us-syria-rebels-idUSBRE97O07I20130825

Good luck with that. When will those in exile understand that this is an Islamic uprising and Islam is not going away. No doubt the long term plan is to try and fight the 'islamists' even though without the 'islamists' Assad would of crushed the rebels two years ago.

video like this shows exactly why the exiles and arab states around syria are worried about the aftermath once Assad is gone.

The rebels will want a khilafah state and wont give up on this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVs3L534m8M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXrkNjjortk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASPrBdQQNPk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbj8s1HHiMA
 
Oct 24, 2012
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pseudo-political analysis. Giving Syria those missiles would not be a "whole powershift in the region to the Iran bloc". Iran is a third world nation that is being economically strangled by the most powerful countries in the world. It also has been bombarded with it's own form of chemical weapons and biological weapons when the USA started promoting opium growth in Afghanistan.

This whole notion that Iran is doing a thing is just war mongering craziness. Those missiles are defensive and using one of them, which costs millions of dollars each, is to defend against such things as sophisticated aerial attacks.

When I say Iran bloc, I mean the alliance of Syria/Iran/Hezbollah. Sorry if I was being unclear but you're surely not disagreeing with me on the point that the aforementioned 3 is allies, right ?

Giving them advanced anti-air missiles would greatly limit Israels ability to deploy aircrafts to bomb any sites as they see fit and as they have done many times before. '

That would greatly decrease the range in which Israel can "move around in" and operate in and therefore also give an substantial power shit to this aforementioned alliance.

I think your so lusting for a fight with someone that you're also willing to put words in his mouth. I never said they were going to be offensive. Of course their going to be defensive, so that Israel doesn't go into Syria/Hezbollah-airspace

As to the bolded part. I have no idea what you're trying to say.

EDIT:
Iran is a third world nation that is being economically strangled by the most powerful countries in the world....
This whole notion that Iran is doing a thing is just war mongering craziness.

I think your downplaying Irans role and capabilities in the conflict. Iran is a very technologically advanced country that is supplying Syria with manpower, weapons and ammo. Not to say advisors on war and financial support. Saying that they are a third world country is doing them an disservice and is quite frankly simply not true.
 

CHEEZMO™

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Jan 22, 2008
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@ liger: position of the defector supposedly revealed: head of medical services in the chemical warfare branch.

edit: or maybe head of forensics in Aleppo. More info and clarification at the presser, presumably.

Abdul Tawab Shahrour.
 

Osiris

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CHEEZMO™;79730197 said:
@ liger: position of the defector supposedly revealed: head of medical services in the chemical warfare branch.

edit: or maybe head of forensics in Aleppo. More info and clarification at the presser, presumably.

Abdul Tawab Shahrour.

Some are reporting that he's defecting with documentary evidence of the Assad regime's involvement in the CW attack.

Press conference at 3pm GMT.
 

CHEEZMO™

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Jan 22, 2008
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Some are reporting that he's defecting with documentary evidence of the Assad regime's involvement in the CW attack.

Press conference at 3pm GMT.

The Khan al-Assal attack, if things are to be believed. Isn't that the one Russia said some nonsense about it being a rebel attack?
 

CHEEZMO™

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Jan 22, 2008
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So it seems ISIS murdered the head of Ahrar al-Sham's relief efforts.



Interesting to see where this goes. ISIS are fast running out of friends. Probably because they keep murdering them. You know you messed up when the Chechens split off because they think you're too extreme.

Also!

Here's those videos that seem to show Iranians in Syria

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPC0Udeof3T4sIyyP9pqhkVP1P4PswlmO
 

liger05

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CHEEZMO™;81258513 said:
So it seems ISIS murdered the head of Ahrar al-Sham's relief efforts.



Interesting to see where this goes. ISIS are fast running out of friends. Probably because they keep murdering them. You know you messed up when the Chechens split off because they think you're too extreme.

Also!

Here's those videos that seem to show Iranians in Syria

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPC0Udeof3T4sIyyP9pqhkVP1P4PswlmO

It seems this fitna has been stopped straight away. Ahrar al-Sham's leader last night said they dont see this as an issue between the two groups but two individuals. ISIS gave up the guy and said if guilty will have to face the Hadd punishment.

Read this on twitter tonight

"Khalid Abu ANas, states that 2day meetings were held by Ahrar and ISIS 2 resolve the issue regarding the killing of Abu Ubadah. And that a committee from both sides to judge and representatives from both Ahrar And ISIS will be there 2 represent both sides"

Brother not sure if the Chechens did split. A few weeks ago ISIS declared that they had expelled 29 people from the group.
 

CHEEZMO™

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Jan 22, 2008
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Be curious to hear what the motive was (if it's revealed). From some of the rumours floating around about the killing itself it sounds like he was a deliberate target.
 

liger05

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In a specific traditional way or by any method?

Probably by the bullet I would think. For instance yesterday JAN posted a vid of someone they said was a rapist and he got the bullet.

Be curious to hear what the motive was (if it's revealed). From some of the rumours floating around about the killing itself it sounds like he was a deliberate target.

For the ISIS sake and the resistance I hope this really simply a case of an individual action on his own as they dont need to be picking fights. If you look at what happened in Iraq in 07 and what is happening in Syria now they seem to have learnt from there mistakes which caused the Sunni community to turn on them in Iraq.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24039309#?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Paradoxically, he said, "the only ones who treated us with humanity were those closest to al-Qaeda", because they had an attitude towards prisoners - a code of conduct - that other captors lacked.
 
Jun 7, 2013
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Liger there is more to that article then just that one paragraph praising people who did 9/11. It's kinda sad you posted that praise of al-queda on 9-11 too.
 
Oct 24, 2012
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Liger there is more to that article then just that one paragraph praising people who did 9/11. It's kinda sad you posted that praise of al-queda on 9-11 too.

Dude he was quoting it in a context. Do you ever run out of those straws ?

Sure as hell isn't a good situation though. I've also heard that the Chechens disbanded or left because of some disagreements. JN/ISIS can't win this shit alone.
 

liger05

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Liger there is more to that article then just that one paragraph praising people who did 9/11. It's kinda sad you posted that praise of al-queda on 9-11 too.

I know that. Who was praising AQ and why are you bringing 9-11 up. The date never came into my head. I just found it kinda funny that the kidnapped said it was the 'islamists' who are nothing but barbarians according to some were the ones who treated the victims the best.

We know this doesnt match the narrative you like to give.
 

Stridone

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Jul 16, 2007
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I know that. Who was praising AQ and why are you bringing 9-11 up. The date never came into my head. I just found it kinda funny that the kidnapped said it was the 'islamists' who are nothing but barbarians according to some were the ones who treated the victims the best.

We know this doesnt match the narrative you like to give.

It disgusts me how you are openly supporting these piece of shit terrorists. I can't wait for the day that Assad rounds these fundamentalist assholes up and ends it.
 
Jun 7, 2013
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I know that. Who was praising AQ and why are you bringing 9-11 up. The date never came into my head. I just found it kinda funny that the kidnapped said it was the 'islamists' who are nothing but barbarians according to some were the ones who treated the victims the best.

We know this doesnt match the narrative you like to give.

You should also know that both victims have said that they overheard the terrorists saying that they did the chemical attacks on a skype call.

“During our kidnapping, we were kept completely in the dark about what was going on in Syria, including the gas attacks in Damascus”, Quirico said. “But one day, we heard a Skype conversation in English between three people whose names I do not know. We heard the conversation from the room in which we were being held captive, through a half-closed door. One of them had previously presented himself to us as a general of the Syrian Liberation Army. The other two we had never seen and knew nothing about”.


“During the Skype conversation, they said that the gas attack on the two neighbourhoods in Damascus had been carried out by rebels as a provocation, to push the West towards a military intervention. They also said they believed the death toll had been exaggerated,” Quirico said in his statement.

http://www.lastampa.it/2013/09/09/e...o-used-gas-FjJDJ8oeEI19AZbyKIVBHJ/pagina.html

Now this isn't me saying it or making any claims about who did what. This is the people who you quoted to point out that the terrorists aren't that bad saying it.
 

liger05

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It disgusts me how you are openly supporting these piece of shit terrorists. I can't wait for the day that Assad rounds these fundamentalist assholes up and ends it.

Yes cos Assad and his forces are a beacon of humanity. Oh wait.
Interesting to see where this goes. ISIS are fast running out of friends. Probably because they keep murdering them. You know you messed up when the Chechens split off because they think you're too extreme.

This is what seems to have happened (from twitter)

"Abu Ubaida was distributing aide with relief workers from Malaysia & Turkey; Malaysia's flag is similar to the US flag so ISIS thought they were Americans and wanted to arrest them - which Abu Ubaida refused to allow. They got into a heavy argument, to which ISIS men wanted to detain him - when he resisted he was hit in the head by the bottom of Gun leading him to lose consciousness. He was placed in the back of the car and after driving for about 10km - he awakened and tried 2 flee the car. An ISIS member shot 4 shots at his thigh (and this shows they didnt intend 2 kill him), and then they rushed him to hospital where he succumbed to his wounds. Afterwards the Malaysians & Turks were released after it was proven they weren't American."

Both Ahrar Al Sham and ISIS have agreed 2 take the perpetrators to a sharia court to rule their fate.
 

RedSwirl

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Don't know if this has been discussed, but I just saw a clip from 60 minutes on the news tonight (CBS) with some comments on the guy who was CIA director (I think) until last Saturday talking about his idea scenario.

I didn't hear it too well but generally he said his ideal scenario was being able to support the rebels (FSA I imagine) -- not to the point where they can overtake Assad, but just enough to where they can force Assad to the negotiating table. He believes Assad's existing institutions are the only things keeping the country from becoming what Afghanistan did during the 90's, but I guess still wants the moderate rebels to "win."

Don't know how realistic that is though.
 

liger05

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Don't know if this has been discussed, but I just saw a clip from 60 minutes on the news tonight (CBS) with some comments on the guy who was CIA director (I think) until last Saturday talking about his idea scenario.

I didn't hear it too well but generally he said his ideal scenario was being able to support the rebels (FSA I imagine) -- not to the point where they can overtake Assad, but just enough to where they can force Assad to the negotiating table. He believes Assad's existing institutions are the only things keeping the country from becoming what Afghanistan did during the 90's, but I guess still wants the moderate rebels to "win."

Don't know how realistic that is though.

Unless Assad is going to negotiate an exit then what would be the point. 100,000 people have died and its just not realistic to think a peaceful solution can be found where Assad remains.
 
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