• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

System Shock Remastered Kickstarter Launched (PC/XB1) | 900K Goal - Demo Available

DocSeuss

Member
Mar 26, 2012
9,246
1
665
Lawrence, KS
twitter.com
One of the backers says "hopefully Warren takes from Ken Levine's ending to System Shock 2 and starts on Earth..." in one of the comments.

They... do know that's not how the game was meant to end, right?

What's with all the unity and Xbox hate? I haven't had the chance to play the demo but I for one don't mind much about the lack of PS4 version or Unity. Would I prefer it? Yes of course, but I'm just happy we're getting a remake made by a competent studio (their work with bringing back old games shows that there's quite a lot of dedication and passion from this team).

I mean I got burned by mighty no9 but I just got a sketch, this time we have a full demo. Stretch goals don't seem quite crazy to me, I hope it achieves most of them by the time the Kickstarter ends.

Unity games have a history of running bad on Playstation, so Playstation fans whine about the engine and the fact that the game is on the Xbox One.

What you wrote has nothing to do with that specific list of features. It's an Ironman mode, and some systems that are a bit more like SS2. Zero connection to Bioshock.

If they react to the people complaining that the demo is too slow... fine, but that's an entirely different topic than those stretch goals, which are obviously moving the game even further from the type of game Bioshock was.

I don't see how anyone with even a mote of intelligence can look at those stretch goals and go "it's like Bioshock," because those stretch goals literally take it further away from Bioshock. They're additions to an already complex game. It's starting at more complex than Bioshock and only getting more complex.

Why would anyone care if it's slow? It's System Shock. Have they even played System Shock?

The critics right now sound, to me, like people who never played any Shock games and have literally no idea what they're talking about. I dunno how to be more plain than that. I have yet to see anyone make an argument from the perspective of someone familiar with the series as to why this will not be faithful to the series. It's all "but what if it's like Bioshock." There's no real understanding of Bioshock's mechanics on display here either.

SS1 does not have things like leveling, perks, crafting, or vending machines.

System Shock 2 features Vending Machines, Weapon Upgrades, Minigames, and a true RPG character leveling system. So.
 

TheRedSnifit

Member
Nov 21, 2012
10,793
11
700
35
People interested in SS1's soundtrack should give Chicajo's website a look. He's the guy who took the MIDI snippets you hear in-game and mixed and re-recorded them into the full-length tracks you find on YouTube and most other sites. He's got a bunch more cool mixes on his website, and you should give it a listen.

You guys may also like the TTLG Jukebox, which is a really great source for all kind of mixes, from System Shock as well as other Looking Glass games.
 

TheRedSnifit

Member
Nov 21, 2012
10,793
11
700
35
One of the backers says "hopefully Warren takes from Ken Levine's ending to System Shock 2 and starts on Earth..." in one of the comments.

They... do know that's not how the game was meant to end, right?

Conjecture: While Levine was a creative genius at the time, I personally think the supposed "original ending" is a retro invention. I suspect he's not too thrilled at how often the ending of his masterpiece gets ridiculed (<FWOOOOOSH> "NAH!").

The ending video is actually too long, complex and specific to have been developed completely outside Levine's control and then re-cut with a different vision. They also would have had time to fix it after the game had shipped, since they had to release a patch anyway (the v.2.3 patch), which arrived at the same time the game hit the shelves. He's also never said a word about what the ending was originally going to be. At the most, it was probably going to be essentially the same thing, but presented in a less silly manner.

System Shock 2 features Vending Machines, Weapon Upgrades, Minigames, and a true RPG character leveling system. So.

Never said it didn't. But the idea that a remake of SS1 is going to be "System Shock lite" if it doesn't include things that weren't in the original is kind of silly.
 

Lurky

Member
Apr 20, 2012
1,370
0
0
Man I really want that laptop but I just can't rationalize spending $5000. I'll probably just get the $150 tier... ;_;
 

TheRedSnifit

Member
Nov 21, 2012
10,793
11
700
35
Man I really want that laptop but I just can't rationalize spending $5000. I'll probably just get the $150 tier... ;_;

We'll pool our money and mail the laptop to each other every week.

;-;

EDIT:

This is totally stupid, but looking at the $150 dollar tier icon, I just realized the Cyborg Enforcers are female. I've played the game a billion times and never spotted that.
 

guybrushfreeman

Unconfirmed Member
Sep 19, 2012
3,929
0
0
Played the Pre-Alpha on My Surface Pro 4 at 720p ~10fps. It was fun to mess around in and get a sense of the style their aiming for. The pixelated look it has going is actually really appealing, it felt a little too doused in post-processing effects though at times. I'm still pretty impressed with the amount of work they've put in so far, feels spot on to me considering what their aiming for. As for the Kickstarter it'll be interesting to see what they end up with. Those stretch goals will change the game and production considerably.

It's also worth noting just how crazy amazing this situation is though. A few years ago the idea of this happening was impossible. We couldn't even get System Shock up on stores for sale and it seemed it would never happen. The fact this is happening at all and it looks good is seriously amazing.
 

DocSeuss

Member
Mar 26, 2012
9,246
1
665
Lawrence, KS
twitter.com
Demo runs at 60-70FPS for me on my GTX 970.

Conjecture: While Levine was a creative genius at the time, I personally think the supposed "original ending" is a retro invention. I suspect he's not too thrilled at how often the ending of his masterpiece gets ridiculed (<FWOOOOOSH> "NAH!").

The ending video is actually too long, complex and specific to have been developed completely outside Levine's control and then re-cut with a different vision. They also would have had time to fix it after the game had shipped, since they had to release a patch anyway (the v.2.3 patch), which arrived at the same time the game hit the shelves. He's also never said a word about what the ending was originally going to be. At the most, it was probably going to be essentially the same thing, but presented in a less silly manner.



Never said it didn't. But the idea that a remake of SS1 is going to be "System Shock lite" if it doesn't include things that weren't in the original is kind of silly.

The ending doesn't FEEL like Levine's work contemporary work at all (Thief, Thief 2, the rest of System Shock 2, etc). It doesn't even feel like his newer work. It definitely feels out of place. The story that EA created it and gave it to them sounds pretty right to me. My understanding is that he wanted to kill SHODAN for good.

What's weird to me is people acting as if the game will be less system shock for doing more complex things. Bioshock is reduced complexity. System Shock 2 was refined complexity. What they've offered sounds more like System Shock 2. I don't know how anyone could sit there and go "adding features makes it more like the game with less features." It baffles me.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Jul 30, 2009
73,799
7
1,030
Western Australia
Night Dive lists itself as having between one and ten employees on LinkedIn. Unless they have external funding, they're probably not going on a hiring spree after the campaign, so that would rule out UE4. Similar problems for CE and iDTech 5 and they probably have worse documentation.

Otherside is lending a hand, but its employee count is 11-50 and also has Underworld Ascendant in active development plus System Shock 3 somewhere in pre-production, so, yeah, the team is definitely small.
 

coughlanio

Member
Sep 24, 2009
2,241
0
915
London, UK
Night Dive lists itself as having between one and ten employees on LinkedIn. Unless they have external funding, they're probably not going on a hiring spree after the campaign, so that would rule out UE4. Similar problems for CE and iDTech 5 and they probably have worse documentation.

Not to mention id Tech is no longer licensed to external developers.
 

barit

Member
May 5, 2014
3,315
0
0
Berlin, Germany
No PS4 no backing. My PC is too weak it seems and I don't want to upgrade it (I see no use for it just for one game) and I will never buy a Xbone so yeah nice idea and I hope they get their goal but not with me. Sad cuz I'm huge SS fan
 

TheRedSnifit

Member
Nov 21, 2012
10,793
11
700
35
The ending doesn't FEEL like Levine's work contemporary work at all (Thief, Thief 2, the rest of System Shock 2, etc). It doesn't even feel like his newer work. It definitely feels out of place. The story that EA created it and gave it to them sounds pretty right to me. My understanding is that he wanted to kill SHODAN for good.

I don't think the cutscene came from EA, since the cutscene artists listed in the credits all worked for LGS or Irrational, and accordingly would have worked in the same room as everyone else (assuming Levine's statement about the game being made in a single room is accurate, obviously). How he could not have an eye on the ending, which is supposed to pull the whole story together, is somewhat beyond me.

But it's all conjecture :p. Don't know why you think he wanted to kill SHODAN off for good, though. He never mentioned that. He did say "you can&#8217;t have a System Shock game without SHODAN" in the same interview where he talks about the ending.

What's weird to me is people acting as if the game will be less system shock for doing more complex things. Bioshock is reduced complexity. System Shock 2 was refined complexity. What they've offered sounds more like System Shock 2. I don't know how anyone could sit there and go "adding features makes it more like the game with less features." It baffles me.

Have you read the post I was responding to yet? I feel we're arguing different things.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Jun 10, 2004
59,891
2
0
Windsor, UK
What's with all the bad vibes in regards the console port? For starters, System Shock has no ties to Sony, so there's no real obligation there. Also, it's not like they chose Xbox; MS seems to have approached them about getting their game on the console, and even supplied them with the necessary tools, so I think that's fair enough. If Sony is interested, I'm sure they'll come around, but I don't get why some people are scornful over it like it's Night Dive's responsibility to get that ball rolling.


Eh? It's totally the devs responsibility to get that ball rolling. If they don't want to, that's fine. If they didn't have time to get that element sorted out before the KS launched, and therefore didn't want to guarantee a PS4 version that's fine too. But the onus is on the developer to approach the platform holder.

I'm slightly critical only because it is such a large market to (currently) ignore which potentially could impact their ability to reach the KS goal. Unlikely because it is a popular property, but I'm sure that has happened before. Or maybe it'll affect their ability to hit stretch goals?
 

CrimsonSquall

Member
Jul 29, 2013
3,729
1,010
775
Damn. Sad about the PS4 situation but hey that's life. Musta been hard for the Shenmue xbox fans out there at first
 

Dsyndrome

Member
Jun 12, 2014
5,096
57
475
USA
Backed, had to show my support, went with the $50 tier.

Demo FPS went from 70's to 50's from me with the two minutes I've played, will try more tomorrow since ZE3 won't be available right away when I get up.
 
Oct 3, 2014
1,006
0
320
Unity has a great amount of documentation an a great community btw :p

So in that way I think it's very understandable they went for that engine.

(Also the game(vertical slice? / demo thing) looks amazing)
 

CHC

Member
Aug 24, 2012
12,188
5
675
Must admit I was VERY impressed with the demo. I mean, it was sort of simplistic but if they legit remake System Shock, I'm not worried about that.

Loved the detail in how the hands picked up every item, and I got such nostalgia seeing the bouncing box edges around highlighted objects. Everything just had a perfect feel - slower and more deliberate, but still modern and not clunky for the sake of being clunky.
 

DocSeuss

Member
Mar 26, 2012
9,246
1
665
Lawrence, KS
twitter.com
Have you read the post I was responding to yet? I feel we're arguing different things.

I think I'm misunderstanding you because I'm literally in so much pain I can barely see straight but I can't go to a doctor so I'm distracting myself with internet.

Eh? It's totally the devs responsibility to get that ball rolling. If they don't want to, that's fine. If they didn't have time to get that element sorted out before the KS launched, and therefore didn't want to guarantee a PS4 version that's fine too. But the onus is on the developer to approach the platform holder.

I'm slightly critical only because it is such a large market to (currently) ignore which potentially could impact their ability to reach the KS goal. Unlikely because it is a popular property, but I'm sure that has happened before. Or maybe it'll affect their ability to hit stretch goals?

Consoles have almost never benefited a game's development for Kickstarter. It's not worth it to target consoles; the only reason I'm considering mentioning consoles in my Kickstarter is because it's A) not THAT hard to do if you have the funds, and B) basically the only way to get covered by the press, who actively refuse pitches about covering most Kickstarter projects that aren't on consoles too.
 

Unicorn

Member
May 5, 2009
13,722
2
0
Saturn
steamcommunity.com
I own System Shock but never played it. This demo seems really cool and I may actually give SS a shot. I am stuck in the demo though. I'm at an un-powered switch and can't figure out what to do. There's also a power thing that electrocutes me, and it seems to be a timer, but I can't figure out what it's affecting.
 
Jul 30, 2015
6,720
7
0
That demo was pretty good! That ending when the music kicks in. I'd already backed it before I played the demo, but I'd back it again if I could. The textures are fantastic looking in a throwback way that I haven't really seen before. I can't wait.

Also the first few pages of this thread are borderline embarrassing lmao
 

TheRedSnifit

Member
Nov 21, 2012
10,793
11
700
35
I think I'm misunderstanding you because I'm literally in so much pain I can barely see straight but I can't go to a doctor so I'm distracting myself with internet.

Yikes. Hope you feel better soon.

I own System Shock but never played it. This demo seems really cool and I may actually give SS a shot. I am stuck in the demo though. I'm at an un-powered switch and can't figure out what to do. There's also a power thing that electrocutes me, and it seems to be a timer, but I can't figure out what it's affecting.

There's a circuit you have to interact with next to the switch.
 

toddhunter

Member
Apr 14, 2010
22,300
2
615
40
Australia
I don't see how anyone with even a mote of intelligence can look at those stretch goals and go "it's like Bioshock," because those stretch goals literally take it further away from Bioshock. They're additions to an already complex game. It's starting at more complex than Bioshock and only getting more complex.

...

System Shock 2 features Vending Machines, Weapon Upgrades, Minigames, and a true RPG character leveling system. So.

"But..but ..but System Shock 2 had these things!"

It did. But putting aside the fact that SS1 is a very different game (driven by the very different level design), you don't know what they are planning to add and quite clearly, neither do they. They are just going to get a lot of money and suggested a lot of "improvements" to draw a bigger crowd in.

1. Take System Shock.
2. Start with good intentions but then improve it in various ways to appeal to people who don't really want it but want a space shooter to play on a console with a controller.
3. Get Bioshock.

We have been down this road before, the crucial thing is that it is a kickstarter. You might not want to acknowledge the red flags, but trust me, they are there. It doesn't mean it will not end up going splendidly, but you shouldn't be baffled by doubters and all of it seems completely unnecessary.
 

Redrum_82

Member
Apr 19, 2009
206
0
0
Italy
Man I really want that laptop but I just can't rationalize spending $5000. I'll probably just get the $150 tier... ;_;

I don't get it: if someone pledges for $5k, will they ship the laptop now or when the game is done (estimated Dec. 2017 plus the usual delay)?
 

Supernorn

Chucklefish (Starbound)
May 14, 2013
166
0
0
London
I got in on the early bird tier before that all got swept up.

The demo was good, I felt like a right idiot getting trapped in the starting room with the lead pipe though. If you close the door on yourself, you can't open it from the inside!
 

Unicorn

Member
May 5, 2009
13,722
2
0
Saturn
steamcommunity.com
Just finished the demo. I'm there day one, but I don't think I'll back the KS on this one. All the games I've backed and got early access too ruined the finality of a product on launch day.

There's just something to say about a game being finished the first time you play that gets diluted during the development process and early access. This did totally give me the youngster nostalgia feel for Quake 2 and other early 3D shooters. I looked at the original game and mannnnnn they're doing this game a solid bringing it up to modern times. I appreciate the 90's touch of giving me info on everything, including the wall and flooring tiles and the level of interactivity.

System Shock 1 looks a little too dated for me to try and return to, but what about SS2? I have that on Steam and haven't touched it, but it seems to be better regarded by modern standards.
 

Uriah

Member
Apr 12, 2011
2,801
0
0
Just finished the demo. I'm there day one, but I don't think I'll back the KS on this one. All the games I've backed and got early access too ruined the finality of a product on launch day.

There's just something to say about a game being finished the first time you play that gets diluted during the development process and early access. This did totally give me the youngster nostalgia feel for Quake 2 and other early 3D shooters. I looked at the original game and mannnnnn they're doing this game a solid bringing it up to modern times. I appreciate the 90's touch of giving me info on everything, including the wall and flooring tiles and the level of interactivity.

System Shock 1 looks a little too dated for me to try and return to, but what about SS2? I have that on Steam and haven't touched it, but it seems to be better regarded by modern standards.

SS2 holds up amazingly well. I played it for the first time when it was re-released on GOG and it still plays great.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Jul 30, 2009
73,799
7
1,030
Western Australia
Just finished the demo. I'm there day one, but I don't think I'll back the KS on this one. All the games I've backed and got early access too ruined the finality of a product on launch day.

There's just something to say about a game being finished the first time you play that gets diluted during the development process and early access. This did totally give me the youngster nostalgia feel for Quake 2 and other early 3D shooters. I looked at the original game and mannnnnn they're doing this game a solid bringing it up to modern times. I appreciate the 90's touch of giving me info on everything, including the wall and flooring tiles and the level of interactivity.

System Shock 1 looks a little too dated for me to try and return to, but what about SS2? I have that on Steam and haven't touched it, but it seems to be better regarded by modern standards.

If you don't want to play the beta, just give away your beta key.
 

xVodevil

Member
Nov 13, 2015
601
14
430
I'd love this, but I really don't like the idea of altering the core game, the mechanics etc. Well except only if everything is optional... but I guess it isn't.
 

Lanrutcon

Member
Feb 19, 2014
11,374
6,555
770
Irrelevant
I'd love this, but I really don't like the idea of altering the core game, the mechanics etc. Well except only if everything is optional... but I guess it isn't.

Hey, I feel that killstreaks and the dating minigame will really add to the atmosphere. So there.
 

Sparrowhawk

Member
Jun 5, 2013
5,396
0
505
Virginia

I'm having fun.
 

MrCunningham

Member
Jan 12, 2012
18,679
517
865
BC Canada
This is the best way to do a kick starter..a playable demo !

Yup, I agree. The demo shows that the game is going to be very faithful to the original. Graphically, it's looks OK for a Unity Engine game. I would've preferred to see this on UE4, but they are probably going with Unity because they can make more money in sales. Overall this is a win.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Jun 10, 2004
59,891
2
0
Windsor, UK
Consoles have almost never benefited a game's development for Kickstarter. It's not worth it to target consoles; the only reason I'm considering mentioning consoles in my Kickstarter is because it's A) not THAT hard to do if you have the funds, and B) basically the only way to get covered by the press, who actively refuse pitches about covering most Kickstarter projects that aren't on consoles too.

so kickstarters are disproportionately backed by PC gamers? Interesting
 

Durante

Member
Oct 1, 2006
48,836
1
0
peter.metaclassofnil.com
so kickstarters are disproportionately backed by PC gamers? Interesting
I don't think that's an unlikely claim, many of the largest game kickstarter projects are even PC only (e.g. Pillars, Torment, Elite [at the time of the KS], SC, D:OS [at KS], ...).
And the whole KS for games idea was really popularized by DFA and WL2 which were also PC only at that point.
 

Corpekata

Banned
Jun 7, 2013
20,276
1
0
so kickstarters are disproportionately backed by PC gamers? Interesting

I'd say less than 5 percent of KS games aren't on PC so it's clearly a pretty big target audience for the site. The other 5 percent are mobile only and like Amplitude.
 

Raybunny

Member
Oct 10, 2014
2,520
0
0
Awesome.

Not backing though. Between a bunch of failed devs and liers on some backed projects some good ones will take the tool.

Will keep an eye on it though. A ps4 version would.... be great.


This is the best way to do a kick starter..a playable demo !

Indeed it is but doesnt mean anything if you have experience with Kickstarter projects.