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Taiwan Restricts Russia, Belarus to CPUs Under 25 MHz Frequency

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winjer

Member

Taiwan Restricts Russia, Belarus to CPUs Under 25 MHz Frequency


From now on, Russian and Belarusian entities can only buy CPUs operating at below 25 MHz and offering performance of up to 5 GFLOPS from Taiwanese companies. This essentially excludes all modern technology, including microcontrollers for more or less sophisticated devices.

Due to restrictions imposed on exports to Russia by the United States, United Kingdom, and the European Union, leading Taiwanese companies were among the first to cease working with Russia after the country started full-scale war against Ukraine in late February. This week Taiwan's Ministry of Economic Affairs (MOEA) formally published its list of high-tech products that are banned from exportation to Russia and Belarus, which prevents all kinds of Taiwan-produced high-tech devices as well as tools used to make chips (whether or not they use technologies originated from the U.S., U.K., or E.U., which were already covered by restrictions) to be exported to the aggressive nation.

Items banned from exportation to Russia and Belarus are pursuant to Category 3 to Category 9 of Wassenaar Arrangement, which covers electronics, computers, telecommunications, sensors, lasers, navigation equipment, maritime technology, navigation, avionics, jet engines, and a number of other categories.

Since the arrangement was adopted by 42 states in the mid-1990s, the restrictions may seem a bit archaic when it comes to computers and electronics, but this actually makes them even more severe for Russia and Belarus (the country used to help its neighbor to get around sanctions).

Starting today, Russian entities cannot buy chips that meet one of the following conditions from Taiwanese companies, reports DigiTimes:

  • Has performance of 5 GFLOPS. To put it into context, Sony's PlayStation 2 released in 2000 had peak performance of around 6.2 FP32 GFLOPS.
  • Operates at 25 MHz or higher.
  • Has an ALU that is wider than 32 bits.
  • Has an external interconnection with a data transfer rate of 2.5 MB/s or over.
  • Has more than 144 pins.
  • Has basic gate propagation delay time of less than 0.4 nanosecond.
In addition to being unable to buy chips from Taiwanese companies, Russian entities will not be able to get any chip production equipment from Taiwan, which includes scanners, scanning electron microscopes, and all other types of semiconductor tools that can be used to make chips locally or perform reverse engineering (something that the country pins a lot of hopes on).

Speaking of chip production in Russia, it is interesting to note that MCST, the developer of Elbrus CPUs, is negotiating with Russian contract chipmaker Mikron to make processors domestically, according to RBC. MCST's most advanced Elbrus chip was made at TSMC using the company's 16 nm fabrication technology. By contrast, Mikron's most advanced node is 90 nm.

Furthermore, without spare tools and/or spare parts, only time will tell whether the chipmaker will be able to kick off high volume manufacturing of Elbrus CPUs using its 90 nm node and whether a more advanced node can be used at Mikron's fab.

For Russians, getting a new console, a new GPU, CPU, etc, just became much harder. Maybe through some shady import market, like during the Soviet Union.
Probably no RTX 4000, or Zen4, RX 7000, Intel 13th gen CPUs, Arch GPUS, Iphones, etc....


 

Fluo

Member
Ehm, you don't buy consoles or GPUs straight from Taiwan. This is gonna affect different industries. As for gaming, parallel import is allowed for consoles, so nothing's gonna change.
 
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winjer

Member
Ehm, you don't buy consoles or GPUs straight from Taiwan. This is gonna affect different industries. As for gaming, parallel import is allowed for consoles, so nothing's gonna change.

This is not just some random decision from Taiwan. It's in alignment with the USA and EU.
Now mind you, that if a company decides to keep selling consoles and GPUs to Russia, they´ll get banned from buying chips from TSMC.
Then they´ll loose the whole worldwide market, not just Russia. So no company is going to risk trying to bypass this ban.

Of course, Russia will still be able to buy some chips through some black markets, but this will be at a big premium.
Similarly to what was happening during the Soviet Era. For people with money and contacts, they will still be able to get some of these goods.
But for normal citizens, it will be much harder. If not impossible.

On a positive note, there will be more consoles and GPUs for the rest of the world.
 
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Fluo

Member
This is not just some random decision from Taiwan. It's in alignment with the USA and EU.
Now mind you, that if a company decides to keep selling consoles and GPUs to Russia, they´ll get banned from buying chips from TSMC.
Then they´ll loose the whole worldwide market, not just Russia. So no company is going to risk trying to bypass this ban.

Of course, Russia will still be able to buy some chips through some black markets, but this will be at a big premium.
Similarly to what was happening during the Soviet Era. For people with money and contacts, they will still be able to get some of these goods.
But for normal citizens, it will be much harder. If not impossible.
My dude, read up on parallel import. It's allowed for tech goods from other markets, not even black ones.
 

Three

Member
I wonder if people really are this naive to believe sanctions have absolutely no impact whatsoever. Or if they're spouting russian propaganda, which aims to relativize and deligitimize all actions taken by western countries in order to punish the aggressor.
I think this sort of thing hurts citizens more than it does the rulers. If Russia wanted it bad enough they could import it from nearby allied countries. It has an impact but usually doesn't stop what was intended. It just makes it worse for those living there.
 

Fluo

Member
I wonder if people really are this naive to believe sanctions have absolutely no impact whatsoever. Or if they're spouting russian propaganda, which aims to relativize and deligitimize all actions taken by western countries in order to punish the aggressor.
They do have an impact, sanctions like this one cripple a lot of industries, just not the gaming one, because Russia doesn't manufacture anything for gaming. Car industry is already crippled, for example.

You also have to be naive to think there are no workarounds to sanctions.
 
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Drew1440

Member
Wow, that slower than the original PlayStation CPU. Also Russia was developing its own VLIW CPU, the Elbrus-8SV although they were fabbed at TSMC. I guess that CPU is now dead for the time being.
 

kittoo

Cretinously credulous
I often wonder the long term loss vs short term benefits of these sanctions and bans.

There is definitely short term benefit in the sense that it negatively affects Russia and its warfighting capabilities, no doubt about that.

But in the long term it seems loss to US, because these sanctions alert other countries that it could happen to them (their foreign reserves being frozen etc.). Now Saudi and China want to trade in Yuan, and China Russia already do. India is trading with Russia in roubles and barter. Similarly look at China and India trying to set-up their own cutting edge fabs now (India is about to build a $20 billion fab).

The single biggest power US has is USD as world reserve currency. Countries are weaning off that. The simple fact is that apart from US sphere countries, not many have gone against Russia and don't care. Some have blamed US for pushing Russia. I wonder if the short term benefits outweigh the long term loss for US and west. That doesn't even count the loss of pushing Russia fully into China"s arms.

All of us are a little biased and emotional about this for sure, but it seems to me that when the dust settles on this the world will be a much different place and we shouldn't be sure who will be the long term Victor (though China seems to be biggest beneficiary at this time).
 
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winjer

Member
I often wonder the long term loss vs short term benefits of these sanctions and bans.

There is definitely short term benefit in the sense that it negatively affects Russia and its warfighting capabilities, no doubt about that.

But in the long term it seems loss to US, because these sanctions alert other countries that it could happen to them (their foreign reserves being frozen etc.). Now Saudi and China want to trade in Yuan, and China Russia already do. India is trading with Russia in roubles and barter. Similarly look at China and India trying to set-up their own cutting edge fabs now (India is about to build a $20 billion fab).

The single biggest power US has is USD as world reserve currency. Countries are weaning off that. The simple fact is that apart from US sphere countries, not many have gone against Russia and don't care. Some have blamed US for pushing Russia. I wonder if the short term benefits outweigh the long term loss for US and west. That doesn't even count the loss of pushing Russia fully into China"s arms.

All of us are a little biased and emotional about this for sure, but it seems to me that when the dust settles on this the world will be a much different place and we shouldn't be sure who will be the long term Victor (though China seems to be biggest beneficiary at this time).

Most people don't know this, but there is a hidden powerhouse in the chip production business, on which the most advanced chip nodes depend entirely.
It's name is ASML, it's a Dutch company and it makes the machines that make chips. Without it, TSMC, Intel and Samsung would lose their ability to produce high end process nodes.
But even ASML depends on other companies. For example, they depend on Carl Zeiss SMT, a German company, to make optics for those machines that make chips.

For another country to start producing high end chips, it's not just a matter of making a fab.
There are a ton of back-end technologies that they need to develop.
Russia without access to high end optics, precision machinery, controllers, etc, can't do anything.
 
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Moses85

Member
If you think this will have much effect at all, you can forget it. A non-sanctioned country will buy the chips and sell them to Russia. This has been the case with North Korea and Iran for years. Dream on. So only the black market flourishes
 
I wonder if people really are this naive to believe sanctions have absolutely no impact whatsoever. Or if they're spouting russian propaganda, which aims to relativize and deligitimize all actions taken by western countries in order to punish the aggressor.
Let's just ignore the fact that the sanctions are collapsing the EU economy primarily.

The world has completely gone bonkers since the covid pandemic started.
It's like the gaming community's mentality took over the entire world.
 

bbeach123

Member
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They should have said they get nothing compared to this, which is basically nothing. Russia doesn't produce actual goods so they only need chips for personal use and military.
 

winjer

Member
Yes because the entire world banned USA and Israel all the times they committed atrocities against their "enemies". There's no "good and bad" guys here, just a bunch of old hags shaping your future.

Might I remind you that the state of Israel was created with the approval of Russia, in the UN. Might I remind you also, that Russia had the power of veto, being one of the 5 permanent members of the security council.
Might I also remind you that Russia approved the sale of weapons to Israel, so it could defend itself against the neighboring Arab countries, during the first decades of it's existence. At a time when the US banned the sale of weapons to Israel.
So the Creation of Israel is as much one of the responsibility of the USA, as that of Russia.
I might also remind you that China, voted to abstain. And that the only countries that voted against the creation of Israel, were the Arab countries.

You are also correct that the USA have done many wars and many crimes. But even they pale in comparison to what Russia as done in the last few centuries, especially under the Soviet regime.

Your attempt to relativize this war, is nothing but a pathetic attempt.
 

Allandor

Member
Might I remind you that the state of Israel was created with the approval of Russia, in the UN. Might I remind you also, that Russia had the power of veto, being one of the 5 permanent members of the security council.
Might I also remind you that Russia approved the sale of weapons to Israel, so it could defend itself against the neighboring Arab countries, during the first decades of it's existence. At a time when the US banned the sale of weapons to Israel.
So the Creation of Israel is as much one of the responsibility of the USA, as that of Russia.
I might also remind you that China, voted to abstain. And that the only countries that voted against the creation of Israel, were the Arab countries.

You are also correct that the USA have done many wars and many crimes. But even they pale in comparison to what Russia as done in the last few centuries, especially under the Soviet regime.

Your attempt to relativize this war, is nothing but a pathetic attempt.
You forgot an important point: Ukraine gave Russia all they nukes after Soviet Union fell apart for border- and safety-garantees.
 

VN1X

Member
You are also correct that the USA have done many wars and many crimes. But even they pale in comparison to what Russia as done in the last few centuries, especially under the Soviet regime.

Your attempt to relativize this war, is nothing but a pathetic attempt.
"USA have done many wars and many crimes but" sounds like you're trivializing what's actually happened over the past 20 years in the middle east.

I'm going to need some hard numbers and sources for the "pale in comparison as to what Russia has done" statement you've made in relation to events and wars in the 21st century. I'll gladly eat crow mind you, not trying to get you into a "gotcha" debate.
 
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For Russians, getting a new console, a new GPU, CPU, etc, just became much harder. Maybe through some shady import market, like during the Soviet Union.
Probably no RTX 4000, or Zen4, RX 7000, Intel 13th gen CPUs, Arch GPUS, Iphones, etc....
I'm sure they'll get someone to sell it to them.

I'm looking at china.
 

KungFucius

Member
Most people don't know this, but there is a hidden powerhouse in the chip production business, on which the most advanced chip nodes depend entirely.
It's name is ASML, it's a Dutch company and it makes the machines that make chips. Without it, TSMC, Intel and Samsung would lose their ability to produce high end process nodes.
But even ASML depends on other companies. For example, they depend on Carl Zeiss SMT, a German company, to make optics for those machines that make chips.

For another country to start producing high end chips, it's not just a matter of making a fab.
There are a ton of back-end technologies that they need to develop.
Russia without access to high end optics, precision machinery, controllers, etc, can't do anything.
As a former AMAT engineer I take offense at the suggestion that it is all litho. Litho tools are the most expensive but they can pattern many, most layers. The real science is in the materials and their processing, not the photons. New transistor and interconnect materials are required to make devices at the scale EUV can pattern.
 

winjer

Member
"USA have done many wars and many crimes but" sounds like you're trivializing what's actually happened over the past 20 years in the middle east.

I'm going to need some hard numbers and sources for the "pale in comparison as to what Russia has done" statement you've made in relation to events and wars in the 21st century. I'll gladly eat crow mind you, not trying to get you into a "gotcha" debate.

There is no trivializing here. The "but" part refers to people like Stalin, Nicolai II, Lenin, among others, that have committed many crimes against humanity.
Stalin alone beats all US Presidents in murdering people.

Now you are correct about the middle east, had there been any justice, people like Bush and Tony Blair would have been tried in the Hague.
 
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VN1X

Member
There is no trivializing here. The "but" part refers to people like Stalin, Nicolai II, among others, that have committed many crimes against humanity.
Stalin alone beats all US Presidents in murdering people.

Now you are correct about the middle east, had there been any justice, people like Bush and Tony Blair would have been tried in the Hague.
Yes we can go as far a back in history to pick every head of state from every country to find countless of atrocities. The US for example is the only country to have used nuclear weapons to bomb civilians. Noice *clacks tongue*

No I'm talking about the ones relevant in the 21st century with modern warfare. Also it's funny you bring up Bush because as bad as he was, Barack "Drone Strikes" Obama was even worse. F's in the chat.
 
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VN1X

Member
Why don’t some of you come over to the war thread to make these points about the wider conflict? Probably a better place than this thread.
I mean when you post edgelord stuff like this:
Cool. Send the pathetic fuckers back to the digital Stone Age 👍

...it at the very least invites to examine the broader implications and general perception of this entire geo-political debacle lol.
 

Xyphie

Member
Going to be fascinating watching Russian society absolutely collapse in a few years when stuff like industrial control systems stop running because they don't have spare PLCs etc. I guess their one hope is that China (SMIC) manages to make a semiconductor supply line completely independent on Western suppliers like ASML, Applied Materials, Lam and such.
 
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