• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Take Two CEO on VR: "Thankfully, we didn't waste any money on it. "

elenapska

Neo Member
Aug 21, 2020
8
5
85
I think VR is indeed very amazing and has high potential. The only reason it didn't pick up steam is because of the high cost barrier to entry. Bundle a VR headset with a console and see VR blow up.
I don't think VR owners use more their device than the TV for gaming.
 

Romulus

Member
Mar 21, 2019
3,864
4,606
450
Majority of games we play now, and that are the most popular on the market, aren't made for vr and wouldn't work in vr either. I mean who wants to play third person action games like god of war etc. in vr? VR will be a niche for decades.
I definitely would play that in VR.

But what's this "majority" of games we play that would not work? You named a single game lol
 
Last edited:
Jan 29, 2019
3,682
3,263
420
I recently finished Skyrim VR, but that game.. when I first got my PSVR and tried Skyrim VR I got soooooo sick. It was terrible, didn;t know what was going on. After "building my PSVR legs" with games like Astrobot, Statik, Crystal Rift (hidden gem), I though I was ready! I tried Here They Lie.. :messenger_fearful: Holy schnitzel.. That was rough, but I persevered and got sick while battling through the game. It was intense, playing a horror game which actually makes you sick!
a friend of mine played Skyrim VR and loved it, until one day he encountered some bug that made his character spin like crazy (he got stuck in a wall or something)... anyway, he took his PSVR off and had to sit down for like half an hour, it took months for him to even go near his PSVR again.

I also briefly had a PSVR, I really wanted to play Wipeout HD, it made me dizzy (none of the other VR "game" I tried did this to me), so I sold it to cut my loss, but maybe I should have tried more.
 

Relativ9

Member
Nov 18, 2012
2,065
777
620
Narvik, Norway
I think VR is the future of gaming in the sense that it's a vital stepping stone that we have to figure out before we can reach the true future (neural link style), but yeah from a business standpoint he's likely correct in that it doesn't make sense to make the sort of big-budget games Take-Two makes in VR, and it would be silly to invest in it. VR games are different types of game, they belong in their own catagory and will for the foreseeable future belong as a niche aside next to traditional gaming, but that doesn't mean it can't be profitable or provide valuable experiences (as we've already seen). Not even mentioning the non-gaming applications of VR, which if you do any development work you'll know that is booming right now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AeneaGames
Oct 21, 2016
84
103
270
I only think VR is the future if we can get to the immersion of something like Ready Player One. Until we get better inputs that totally immerse you than I feel it will stay a gimmick.
 

Romulus

Member
Mar 21, 2019
3,864
4,606
450
From a business standpoint he's likely correct in that it doesn't make sense to make the sort of big-budget games Take-Two makes in VR, and it would be silly to invest in it.
The CEO quote is either false or he's like alot of CEOs that have so many projects that they get confused.

Rockstar is owned by Take Two.

Rockstar did LA Noire VR on PC, then took the time 3 years later to port it to PSVR. Now, after investing in VR twice(ports aren't free) they're hiring for an even bigger AAA VR project this year.



Makes zero sense.
 
Last edited:

Kenpachii

Member
Mar 23, 2018
5,352
6,017
675
The quote:


Full article: https://www.protocol.com/amp/take-two-strauss-zelnick-2647646413

Yep. Only a few people still thinks that VR is the future of gaming, the next step, and so on.
It is just another failed gimmick (and no, VR isn't in its infancy.)
Already said it multiple times before, VR is nothing but a gimmick. People don't want huge glasses completely blocking your vision taped towards your head. The whole concept is garbage. It will die out much like 3D which has the same problem of not functioning well without glasses and nobody wants glasses on.
 

martino

Member
Apr 25, 2013
4,523
2,035
640
France
Unless you suffer from motion sickness, if you try a (good) game in VR, there's simply no turning back. And you start to wish for dedicated big projects on it.
No.
Try to build your bubble but i exist in this world and i tried multiple multiple times i don't feel any appeal to it.
Also If i cannot try latest games anymore it's because my friend making it possible resold his PSVR some months later because content didn't convinced him too in the end.
So there are already 2 others cases of people reaction to VR to add to this false dilemma fallacy.
And if VR need you to play the right game , in the right condition wishing for a real good project at some point....you are really far from it being an obvious revolution
 
Last edited:

Romulus

Member
Mar 21, 2019
3,864
4,606
450
Already said it multiple times before, VR is nothing but a gimmick. People don't want huge glasses completely blocking your vision taped towards your head. The whole concept is garbage. It will die out much like 3D which has the same problem of not functioning well without glasses and nobody wants glasses on.
You're just uninformed. The sales graph for 3dtv is completely different. VR is constantly selling more every year. You could not even find an Oculus Quest, Rift S, or Index($1000) for months this year and people were price gouging.

Not to mention more headsets are coming in the next year than ever before. And, more AAA games for VR came out this year than all the years of VR combined.

By this time now in 3dTV's life, they were abandoning ship, even before. VR is going the opposite direction.
 
Last edited:

Resenge

Member
Feb 17, 2020
236
299
295
Already said it multiple times before, VR is nothing but a gimmick. People don't want huge glasses completely blocking your vision taped towards your head. The whole concept is garbage. It will die out much like 3D which has the same problem of not functioning well without glasses and nobody wants glasses on.
Ok guys, lets pack it up.

This guy has said multiple times that VR is nothing but a gimmick and no one "wants huge glasses completely blocking your vision taped towards your head". Facebooks new Oculus Quest 2 is DOA, the new Reverb G2 is DOA. Sony investing into the the new WiFi 6 for wireless VR (complete guess) was a waste of time. He knows more than all of us and all the big VR companies.

Why is no one listening to him ffs.......
 
Last edited:

sobaka770

Member
Jun 25, 2013
1,344
749
700
Lausanne, Switzerland
VR still has a long way to go. It's a cool gimmick but motion sickness is still an issue for a lot of headsets, the device is expensive and difficult to set up, the whole thing is still very nerdy considering it's a pretty big box you wear over your eyes that screams isolation and nerddom.

Yes the experiences of people who tried are positive but it has still a long way to go to become a big market considering the requirements. I give it at least 10 years before it's a thing that cannot be ignored and most major publishers see it.
 

jigglet

Member
May 18, 2020
948
1,858
510
Or they could have invested in it to make the VR space better. But why would I expect a money-hungry company like Take-Two to actually care about gaming?
I agree with you. I'm talking from the perspective of a company looking to maximise profits.
 

Kadayi

Probable Replicant & GIF PIMP
Oct 10, 2012
10,432
11,593
1,115
theconclave.net
Ok guys, lets pack it up.

This guy has said multiple times that VR is nothing but a gimmick and no one "wants huge glasses completely blocking your vision taped towards your head". Facebooks new Oculus Quest 2 is DOA, the new Reverb G2 is DOA. Sony investing into the the new WiFi 6 for wireless VR (complete guess) was a waste of time. He knows more than all of us and all the big VR companies.

Why is no one listening to him ffs.......
Indeed in 5 years from now when we're all living in a VR apocalypse, we'll be like

 

Javthusiast

Member
Mar 20, 2017
3,201
6,948
695
I definitely would play that in VR.

But what's this "majority" of games we play that would not work? You named a single game lol
The majority don't wanna play a game like that with unprecised controlls from the first person perspective. And if you keep it the same third person then what the fuck does vr even contribute to games like that? That was my point. Majority of games people like now don't benefit from vr and in most cases make the experience for those game worse. And I don't see a future where we only play first person vr games mostly.
 
Last edited:

DarthBuzzer

Member
Jul 9, 2018
1,153
730
335
I don't know, I get sick with the most basic thing. Like watching someone playing a racing game that I ain't controlling can get me nauseous in minutes. And riding any kind of vehicle as a passenger is a burden. That's why I always drive. lol
Sure, but with these sorted, it will be perceptually in sync with all people with all conditions. At least as much as the real world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lock2k

DarthBuzzer

Member
Jul 9, 2018
1,153
730
335
Already said it multiple times before, VR is nothing but a gimmick. People don't want huge glasses completely blocking your vision taped towards your head. The whole concept is garbage. It will die out much like 3D which has the same problem of not functioning well without glasses and nobody wants glasses on.
If it's going to die out, why does it always grow? 3DTVs died in a few short years.

Just accept you're out of your league on this one.
 

Resenge

Member
Feb 17, 2020
236
299
295
The majority don't wanna play a game like that with unprecised controlls from the first person perspective. And if you keep it the same third person then what the fuck does vr even contribute to games like that? That was my point. Majority of games people like now don't benefit from vr and in most cases make the experience for those game worse. And I don't see a future where we only play first person vr games mostly.
You need to try VR before you say things like this IMO, your ignorance is showing.

One of the best VR games is a 3rd person platformer. I don't even need to say what game it is, most people who played it here know what game I'm talking about. It is just that good.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Wonko_C

DarthBuzzer

Member
Jul 9, 2018
1,153
730
335
The majority don't wanna play a game like that with unprecised controlls from the first person perspective. And if you keep it the same third person then what the fuck does vr even contribute to games like that? That was my point. Majority of games people like now don't benefit from vr and in most cases make the experience for those game worse. And I don't see a future where we only play first person vr games mostly.
You'll never understand until you try it.

The controls are actually more precise than anything else out there. Why do you think people struggle so much to interact with physics outside VR?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wonko_C

Stiflers Mom

Member
Apr 27, 2012
6,196
7,181
1,040
Pretty interesting to see how VR troll threads backfire now. That alone shows the shift of opinion. 2 years ago, half this board was slamming VR. Things are changing.
Seems to me it has always been like that.
A couple of staunch defenders, and a lot of people "who don't get it".

I don't see VR as the future of gaming, sorry.
Same "lack of comfy couch" problem that motion gaming had.

It's fun to try out, it's fun to show some other people who have not experienced VR yet.

In the end I just prefer playing stuff on the flat screen.
 

Romulus

Member
Mar 21, 2019
3,864
4,606
450
The majority don't wanna play a game like that with unprecised controlls from the first person perspective. And if you keep it the same third person then what the fuck does vr even contribute to games like that? That was my point. Majority of games people like now don't benefit from vr and in most cases make the experience for those game worse. And I don't see a future where we only play first person vr games mostly.
You obviously haven't played any 3rd person VR games like Hellblade VR.

Third-person games with any platforming are superior in VR. 3D gives you depth perception for jumping and even timing for attacks.

It's simply a breath of fresh air and 3rd person works wonderfully.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Wonko_C

Romulus

Member
Mar 21, 2019
3,864
4,606
450
Seems to me it has always been like that.
A couple of staunch defenders, and a lot of people "who don't get it".

I don't see VR as the future of gaming, sorry.
Same "lack of comfy couch" problem that motion gaming had.

It's fun to try out, it's fun to show some other people who have not experienced VR yet.

In the end I just prefer playing stuff on the flat screen.

No, there's for sure a difference in opinion here, lots of people I've never seen post about VR defending it, whereas before it was maybe 2-3 people. And, that's in a very short timeframe.

I never said it was the future of gaming. It's just not going anywhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wonko_C

ABnormal

Member
Mar 20, 2020
59
70
195
No.
Try to build your bubble but i exist in this world and i tried multiple multiple times i don't feel any appeal to it.
Also If i cannot try latest games anymore it's because my friend making it possible resold his PSVR some months later because content didn't convinced him too in the end.
So there are already 2 others cases of people reaction to VR to add to this false dilemma fallacy.
And if VR need you to play the right game , in the right condition wishing for a real good project at some point....you are really far from it being an obvious revolution
"He sold it because he wasn't convinced by it". The typical way to try to support a weak point with "others".

Just give up trying to look objective. You are just trying to bring a blind preconception forward, not being really interested in what things really are.

Otherwise you would realize that with proper controllers (like Oculus ones) and a closed development environment (like consoles one), you can use traditional inputs of the controllers and adding position of SEPARATE hands in space, rotation of separate hands in space, pulling and pushing in space, picking and releasing, plus every movement in space you can imagine, and combining them for endless possibilities of control, all impossible to do with pad or mouse (just imagine what you can do with mechanisms, and that's nothing).
Not considering how enormously wider become all exploration; or how real and visceral can combat become (with proper weapon physics, not the horrible lightweight examples that have been done till now).
That from the pure point of view of gameplay mechanics (which is the more important thing. But there is also the sense of immersion, presence and scale, which is brought to a level simply impossible with any other means.
And withing some years we will have "headsets" as small and light as glasses (the Panasonic prototype is already impressive), with eye tracking and positional sound, which in turn will further widen the potential of the peripheral.
It is potentially a bigger jump than the one from 2d to 3d.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wonko_C

Thaedolus

Member
Jun 9, 2004
10,236
3,095
1,710
RE: comfy couch, there are plenty of seated, regular controller based VR games. I’m not up flailing about in Tetris Effect, I’m sitting back in a trance with an XBOne controller. Same with Dirt 2 and other games that aren’t room scale or motion controlled.

Also you can play non VR stuff on what feels like a giant movie screen, though it’s not my preferred way
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wonko_C
Jun 15, 2020
140
229
210
VR is 10000000% the future. theres just no way around that. anyone who thinks elsewise is being naive.

it wont happen this gen or next gen but its coming. Once it evolves into being more user friendly and more capable it will gain critical mass.

get all the wires out, remove the need for a $1500 pc, acquire higher fidelity, remove need for setting up sensors, make it more comfortable, ect and it will take off. most of that is already happening or will happen with the next wave of sets.

why play on a tv with a controller IF a VR system can be every bit as easy/comfortable yet more immersive?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wonko_C

Resenge

Member
Feb 17, 2020
236
299
295
RE: comfy couch, there are plenty of seated, regular controller based VR games. I’m not up flailing about in Tetris Effect, I’m sitting back in a trance with an XBOne controller. Same with Dirt 2 and other games that aren’t room scale or motion controlled.

Also you can play non VR stuff on what feels like a giant movie screen, though it’s not my preferred way
Exactly, I love chilling on my couch with the Oculus Quest and playing games like Brutal Doom or even a simple game like Pokerstars VR is incredibly enhanced because of VR. I love relaxing and play pokerstars VR at the end of the day.

VR can be energetic, but its not forced, there are plenty of relaxing games.

Just putting the headset on watching a movie with someone else across the world in a virtual cinema is nice. VR is the ultimate escapism IMO.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Wonko_C
Jun 15, 2020
140
229
210
I don't think VR owners use more their device than the TV for gaming.
true for me but i can also admit that its only because of the comfort level of the headset, the lower fidelity, and lack of AAA games.

all of those will be remedied. at that point itll be a no brainer for me
 

CuteFaceJay

Member
Sep 11, 2019
974
504
325
Don't blame them. To be honest they weren't too pleased with RDR2 sales numbers I heard so could you imagine if they put the investment into VR for GTA.

They just kept their eye on the GTA modding community to see if anyone actually tried to VR mod GTA and how many people were doing it. Clearly not enough.
 

Stiflers Mom

Member
Apr 27, 2012
6,196
7,181
1,040
And withing some years we will have "headsets" as small and light as glasses (the Panasonic prototype is already impressive), with eye tracking and positional sound, which in turn will further widen the potential of the peripheral.
And it will be awesome for watching porn.

Till then, I will wait and see.
 
Mar 6, 2016
2,785
1,311
545
Until you can give me matrix or holodeck level vr I don’t care.

besides I’d use that for only one thing...
 

DarthBuzzer

Member
Jul 9, 2018
1,153
730
335
Seems to me it has always been like that.
A couple of staunch defenders, and a lot of people "who don't get it".

I don't see VR as the future of gaming, sorry.
Same "lack of comfy couch" problem that motion gaming had.

It's fun to try out, it's fun to show some other people who have not experienced VR yet.

In the end I just prefer playing stuff on the flat screen.
You prefer playing on a flat screen compared to 2020 VR, 1st gen devices.

You're close-minded if you think this is somehow relevant to the future. Try again in 5 years or 10 years. If you still prefer flatscreen gaming, fair enough - but at least that will be an opinion based on fair comparisons.
 

ethomaz

I can't stay out of MS threads because Phil is pretty
Mar 19, 2013
32,740
19,459
1,125
38
Brazil
So you lose money? Because Mr. Valve has a big smile on face.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

DarthBuzzer

Member
Jul 9, 2018
1,153
730
335
Until you can give me matrix or holodeck level vr I don’t care.

besides I’d use that for only one thing...
You'll care before that. This is a naive thought you'll let go.

Perfection is not needed; it never has been. Gaming isn't perfect, even computers aren't perfect. Did you forego gaming until 8K 240HZ pathtraced photorealism? Or computers until Petabyte GPUs? You didn't, so there's no need to do this differently for VR.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Fire
Reactions: Wonko_C and Resenge

Neff

Member
Feb 6, 2012
12,468
1,225
990
UK
When VR is comfortable, social, practical, and convincing enough to be lifelike, then it'll break the mainstream barrier like nothing we've ever seen.

Until then, it's basically in the 'Pong' phase.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Kokoloko85

Kokoloko85

Member
Sep 26, 2019
1,316
1,534
365
Wells VR is not going anywhere and its only gonna get better, bigger, and used for more stuff. Which means.... its gonna get better and more commercial lol.

VR and AR are not motions controls or 3D TV’s lol
 

Spokker

Member
May 31, 2011
1,951
738
780
VR is meh. Don't care about it one way or the other. But I'm glad to see them shit on the cloud too. Cloud gaming is the biggest joke.
 

TonyK

Member
Aug 13, 2020
132
247
265
My own experience with VR (PSVR here) went from: "this is the future, oh my gosh, I'll never be able to play in the traditional way again!!!!" to "lucky me I watch porn on this or it would have been a totally waste of money".
 

mckmas8808

Member
May 24, 2005
44,540
8,829
1,835
Never ever take what a CEO of a big publisher says without a big glass of WTF? juice. They almost always are going to at best misinform you, and at wost straight out lie.

Plus, have you seen the revenue/profits Take 2 is bringing in. Hell why would you care about VR/Streaming when you have a virtual ATM machine named GTA5.
To me this is why they SHOULD care about VR and streaming. Spend those profits into other businesses within gaming to increase the likely hood that you catch fire in another place. Scared money don't make none.
 

DynamiteCop!

Member Series S
Mar 3, 2018
4,773
11,415
825
When VR is comfortable, social, practical, and convincing enough to be lifelike, then it'll break the mainstream barrier like nothing we've ever seen.

Until then, it's basically in the 'Pong' phase.
  • The Valve Index is incredibly comfortable.
  • VR can be shockingly social if you're playing the right things.
  • It's practical if you have things setup properly, I literally just grab my headset and controllers, put the headset on, press a button and I'm in VR.
  • Well what is an isn't lifelike is quite relative, because if you're in a conducive enough environment even if it doesn't look real, it can feel real.
 

trikster40

Member
Dec 12, 2008
1,680
1,530
1,220
I LOVE VR. It is an absolute game changer. RE7, Moss, Others, those will change your mind.
 

Spokker

Member
May 31, 2011
1,951
738
780
get all the wires out, remove the need for a $1500 pc, acquire higher fidelity, remove need for setting up sensors, make it more comfortable, ect and it will take off. most of that is already happening or will happen with the next wave of sets.
You're missing a big factor. The fact that it makes a significant percentage of the public sick is going to be a big barrier to entry and continued growth. According to studies, 40% to 70% of people who try VR get sick after 15 minutes.


"With contemporary commercially available VR systems, the incidence of motion sickness after only 15 minutes is anywhere from 40 to 70 percent," said Thomas Stoffregen, a kinesiologist at the University of Minnesota. For some applications nearly 100% of users get sick, he said.
It's going to be hard to achieve mass market appeal when you need the constitution of a fighter pilot to play more than 15 minutes.
 
Last edited:

Kenpachii

Member
Mar 23, 2018
5,352
6,017
675
You're just uninformed. The sales graph for 3dtv is completely different. VR is constantly selling more every year. You could not even find an Oculus Quest, Rift S, or Index($1000) for months this year and people were price gouging.

Not to mention more headsets are coming in the next year than ever before. And, more AAA games for VR came out this year than all the years of VR combined.

By this time now in 3dTV's life, they were abandoning ship, even before. VR is going the opposite direction.
Most of what u mention is probably a direct result from corona. Every game company is getting some increases in sales from what i read. even pc hardware is selling like hot cakes because people sit at home wanting to be entertained. So yea i am not surprised by the increase and comparing sales data etc in comparison directly isn't really interesting as result. I could see how this could confuse people tho.

The problem with 3D is this:




Nobody wants to deal with those glasses on your head even while they where far less aggressive then VR glasses, it still broke the concept down. Also the price of software that supported 3D was ridiculous what didn't help.

The problem with VR is this:




Problems:

1) can't see people around me or communicate with people.
2) can't move in the world anyway still need shitty controls to move around with, half life vr demonstrated this feels extremely bad.
3) requires lots of movement to do anything
4) sits on your head and is annoying as hell after a while
5) blocks all natural light have fun getting eyes that look like this after getting laser beamed by led lights for hours if you play each day.



6) sweat that builds up

7 ) face imprints because it needs to sit on your face.




Then about how populaire VR really is. Let's look at twitch won't we. a game platform where many people play games on and is a good indication if a game is actually played or not or becomes successful or not.

First VR game played:

First: VR chat 2000 viewers
Second: was not found.

Basically its deader then dead, lineage 2 has more viewers then that and its a advertisement for a private server channel mostly rofl.

Why do streamers specially because VR is entertaining to look at stil avoid using it? its a pain in the ass to use it.

Now u can ignore all those issue's all day long much like what people did back in the 3D space where sony did a massive push into the 3D scene, every tv was 3D capable, movies where 3D in the cinema and even the next nintendo handheld moved to 3D. Everybody was on the 3D train and look a few years later now? 3D? even nvidia support official dropped a few years ago. It's non existent.

Then smaller markets also are more interesting for indie games because they will simple not be found or noticed on bigger marketplaces as they will just be added towards the swamp of indie games. This is something developers with switch vs steam went into a few times. Where they sold better on switch then steam because most people didn't even saw it on steam. It's also valid critisime from tim sweeney no matter if you like it or not, steam does a piss poor job promoting indie games that are from smaller company's which makes them floke to other platforms.

So more software could be cplained simply because of this, it happens with the switch for that exact same reason. Obviously u could also see it the other way around that people are just more interested into it but then the twitch part kinda disproves that.

Then about bigger games.

Other bigger projects like half life VR are created for company's to sell there expensive as shit VR glasses to dig money out of a group of people to never look at them again. I feel bad for anybody investing into that 1000 buck valve VR glasses solution. They paid like what 1000+ with the game for it, and what are the glasses doing right now? collecting dust in a corner.

So for money reasons company's are probably still invested into it, much like how 3D sold tv's again temporarily. the moment 4k was around the corner 3D had no use towards them anymore because they had another reason to sell tv's now and it was killed overnight.

That's why i conclude that VR is fundamentally broken and it will go down the same route that happened with 3D.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: lock2k

DarthBuzzer

Member
Jul 9, 2018
1,153
730
335
How can something become mainstream when so many people can't use it? 🤷‍♂️

And no, you don't just "Get used to it". Motion sickness is something you have for life. I've been getting sick in cars since I was born.
Most humans can use VR just fine. Most people can't use it for more than 30 minutes simply because of an optical issue that is fixed in prototypes and because of physical comfort that is also fixed in prototypes. Sickness is but a minor concern with those fixed - a concern that you address with comfort options.

So yes, never use the word never.

The fact that it makes a significant percentage of the public sick is going to be a big barrier to entry and continued growth. According to studies, 40% to 70% of people who try VR get sick after 15 minutes.

It doesn't though. We need to do the whole 'VR makes so many people sick' myth because comfort options get the vast majority of people to be just fine.
 
Last edited: