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Take Two CEO on VR: "Thankfully, we didn't waste any money on it. "

Neff

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  • The Valve Index is incredibly comfortable.
  • VR can be shockingly social if you're playing the right things.
  • It's practical if you have things setup properly, I literally just grab my headset and controllers, put the headset on, press a button and I'm in VR.
  • Well what is an isn't lifelike is quite relative, because if you're in a conducive enough environment even if it doesn't look real, it can feel real.
I think you missed the point. It's not comfortable enough. It's not social enough. It's not practical enough. It's not lifelike enough. And while I'm on the subject, it's not cheap enough.

it's easy to see it in a positive light when you're already on board (I myself was impressed by PSVR much more than I was expecting to be, and ended up buying quite a few games for it), but at the end of the day, as far as most people are concerned, you're still shutting yourself off from the world with a big piece of electronics on your head so you can wave your arms around like an idiot. It's just not a sexy proposition.

But one day, it will be.

The fact that it makes a significant percentage of the public sick is going to be a big barrier to entry and continued growth.
This too, but I think they can overcome it.
 
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Diddy X

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It gets bigger every day but still regular tv gaming will always be bigger,

VR becomes more relevant as they improve the technology, Alyx is the only AAA VR game so far, VR sure is more immersive than regular gaming.
 

Spokker

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It doesn't though. We need to do the whole 'VR makes so many people sick' myth because comfort options get the vast majority of people to be just fine.
Comfort options also reduce immersion to the extent that you're asking, "What's the point of VR then?"

I'm a badass space marine saving the moon base but I can't do it without a cage around my head and blacking out every time I turn.
 

Resenge

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How can something become mainstream when so many people can't use it? 🤷‍♂️

And no, you don't just "Get used to it". Motion sickness is something you have for life. I've been getting sick in cars since I was born.
Motion sickness is something you have for life, not everyone. A lot of peple can and do get used to VR. You can also get motion sickness playing a flat screen game also, are you going to stop playing those?
 

Starbuck2907

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I played Descent at a VR arcade in my hometown mall back in the 90’s. It was great. This new wave of VR is nice, but I think it’s still going to be niche for a long, long time.

im actually more interested in seeing if hologram gaming will come back, cause it was cool as heck.

I remember playing this in the arcade and being able to put my hand through the characters and being mind blown.
I hope we eventually see a mix of AR and holographic gaming.
 

Romulus

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Most of what u mention is probably a direct result from corona. Every game company is getting some increases in sales from what i read. even pc hardware is selling like hot cakes because people sit at home wanting to be entertained. So yea i am not surprised by the increase and comparing sales data etc in comparison directly isn't really interesting as result. I could see how this could confuse people tho.

The problem with 3D is this:




Nobody wants to deal with those glasses on your head even while they where far less aggressive then VR glasses, it still broke the concept down. Also the price of software that supported 3D was ridiculous what didn't help.

The problem with VR is this:




Problems:

1) can't see people around me or communicate with people.
2) can't move in the world anyway still need shitty controls to move around with, half life vr demonstrated this feels extremely bad.
3) requires lots of movement to do anything
4) sits on your head and is annoying as hell after a while
5) blocks all natural light have fun getting eyes that look like this after getting laser beamed by led lights for hours if you play each day.



6) sweat that builds up

7 ) face imprints because it needs to sit on your face.




Then about how populaire VR really is. Let's look at twitch won't we. a game platform where many people play games on and is a good indication if a game is actually played or not or becomes successful or not.

First VR game played:

First: VR chat 2000 viewers
Second: was not found.

Basically its deader then dead, lineage 2 has more viewers then that and its a advertisement for a private server channel mostly rofl.

Why do streamers specially because VR is entertaining to look at stil avoid using it? its a pain in the ass to use it.

Now u can ignore all those issue's all day long much like what people did back in the 3D space where sony did a massive push into the 3D scene, every tv was 3D capable, movies where 3D in the cinema and even the next nintendo handheld moved to 3D. Everybody was on the 3D train and look a few years later now? 3D? even nvidia support official dropped a few years ago. It's non existent.

Sorry but VR is a dead platform simple by the fact that its concept is fundamentally broken.

Then smaller markets also are more interesting for indie games because they will simple not be found or noticed on bigger marketplaces as they will just be added towards the swamp of indie games. This is something developers with switch vs steam went into a few times. Where they sold better on switch then steam because most people didn't even saw it on steam. It's also valid critisime from tim sweeney no matter if you like it or not, steam does a piss poor job promoting indie games that are from smaller company's which makes them floke to other platforms.

So more software could be cplained simply because of this, it happens with the switch for that exact same reason. Obviously u could also see it the other way around that people are just more interested into it but then the twitch part kinda disproves that.

Then about bigger games.

Other bigger projects like half life VR are created for company's to sell there expensive as shit VR glasses to dig money out of a group of people to never look at them again. I feel bad for anybody investing into that 1000 buck valve VR glasses solution. They paid like what 1000+ with the game for it, and what are the glasses doing right now? collecting dust in a corner.

So for money reasons company's are probably still invested into it, much like how 3D sold tv's again temporarily. the moment 4k was around the corner 3D had no use towards them anymore because they had another reason to sell tv's now and it was killed overnight.

That's why i conclude that VR is fundamentally broken and it will go down the same route that happened with 3D.
The selling out started last fall and winter, well before corona. So, that's a simply incorrect theory. And using Half life as a springboard to isolate VR as having only one AAA is just simply wrong. Metal of Honor is VR exclusive and just announced, Asgard's Wrath another huge AAA games. 2 Walking Dead AAA games, Hitman VR just announced, Mircosoft Flight Sim VR announced. There's big franchises and full length games that are being announced. Even Rockstar just posted 2 months ago that they are hiring for a "AAA game.." Why is Sony recommitting to VR for PS5? Seems like a good time to break it off no? It's not. Why are new headsets still being announced?

Show me examples of 3dTV getting its biggest push on the 5th year. Show me evidence of the most 3DTV coming out in the 5th year of that technology. It's not the same. 3DTV was well into its decline by now, not the opposite. Oh, I likey forgot a few AAA games and dozens of AA games of course.

And the twitch thing has been talked about before. Watching someone play VR sucks. It doesn't work like that because its not representative of what the user even sees. VR could sell 100 million headsets next year and I doubt we'd see 30k viewers. Not a good argument.
 
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Resenge

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It's not social enough.
Lets just kill this argument, VR is infinitely more sociable than any flat screen online game. You can litrally feel like you are stood next to people in VR, when you talk to people they can actually read your body language. The only way you could make flat screen games more sociable is if you play in the same room.

The selling out started last fall and winter, well before corona. So, that's a simply incorrect theory. And using Half life as a springboard to isolate VR as having only one AAA is just simply wrong. Metal of Honor is VR exclusive and just announced, Asgard's Wrath another huge AAA games. 2 Walking Dead AAA games, Hitman VR just announced, Mircosoft Flight Sim VR announced. There's big franchises and full length games that are being announced. Even Rockstar just posted 2 months ago that they are hiring for a "AAA game.." Why is Sony recommitting to VR for PS5? Seems like a good time to break it off no? It's not. Why are new headsets still being announced?

Show me examples of 3dTV getting its biggest push on the 5th year. Show me evidence of the most 3DTV coming out in the 5th year of that technology. It's not the same. 3DTV was well into its decline by now, not the opposite. Oh, I likey forgot a few AAA games and dozens of AA games of course.

And the twitch thing has been talked about before. Watching someone play VR sucks. It doesn't work like that because its not representative of what the user even sees. VR could sell 100 million headsets next year and I doubt we'd see 30k viewers. Not a good argument.
Funny that post he made could have been written 2 years ago (did he copy and paste it from the famous VR is dead post?), every last point. Yet VR is still growing and it still hasn't died.
 
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Resenge

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That's exactly what I'm talking about.

I have serious doubts that this image represents any kind of common scenario...

This is a strawman argument.

Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes completely represents that scenario and is an awesome group game.

Even if that didn't exist, who says you have to play VR with anyone in your room? I have many other activities I can play with other people including (but not limited to) board games, flat screen games. movies etc. Do you think masterbation should be a forced as a group activity too? as it can be but is primarly a solo or couple affair.

Ok the masterbation thing is a little over the top but you get my drift.




I also play VR with my family, I have a few headsets and we sit in the same room to communicate and play multiplayer games.
 
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Matt_Fox

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Half Life Alyx is the one game that keeps getting quoted but I remember how sobering the Steam stats for that game were.

For the month of May, less than two months after its March 23rd release Half Life: Alyx was down to an average player base of just 1,100. And this was during lockdown when every man and his dog have been gaming.

Very sad that not more people are playing it, and very grim for future prospects of other publishers putting that much effort into a VR exclusive.
 

Klayzer

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To me this is why they SHOULD care about VR and streaming. Spend those profits into other businesses within gaming to increase the likely hood that you catch fire in another place. Scared money don't make none.
Agree. Why not throw a few nickels at a project or two if you're Take Two. Its not going to effect their bottom line in the slightest.
 
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martino

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"He sold it because he wasn't convinced by it". The typical way to try to support a weak point with "others".

Just give up trying to look objective. You are just trying to bring a blind preconception forward, not being really interested in what things really are.

Otherwise you would realize that with proper controllers (like Oculus ones) and a closed development environment (like consoles one), you can use traditional inputs of the controllers and adding position of SEPARATE hands in space, rotation of separate hands in space, pulling and pushing in space, picking and releasing, plus every movement in space you can imagine, and combining them for endless possibilities of control, all impossible to do with pad or mouse (just imagine what you can do with mechanisms, and that's nothing).
Not considering how enormously wider become all exploration; or how real and visceral can combat become (with proper weapon physics, not the horrible lightweight examples that have been done till now).
That from the pure point of view of gameplay mechanics (which is the more important thing. But there is also the sense of immersion, presence and scale, which is brought to a level simply impossible with any other means.
And withing some years we will have "headsets" as small and light as glasses (the Panasonic prototype is already impressive), with eye tracking and positional sound, which in turn will further widen the potential of the peripheral.
It is potentially a bigger jump than the one from 2d to 3d.
Ok and probably when all of this will happen my opinion will change. Until then, it's a big no.
imo your opinion is a blatant case of scientism for now
 
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lefty1117

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It won't work until you no longer need big heavy headset to use it. It needs a drastic technology change to become massively adopted IMO
 

DarthBuzzer

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Most of what u mention is probably a direct result from corona. Every game company is getting some increases in sales from what i read. even pc hardware is selling like hot cakes because people sit at home wanting to be entertained. So yea i am not surprised by the increase and comparing sales data etc in comparison directly isn't really interesting as result. I could see how this could confuse people tho.

The problem with 3D is this:




Nobody wants to deal with those glasses on your head even while they where far less aggressive then VR glasses, it still broke the concept down. Also the price of software that supported 3D was ridiculous what didn't help.

The problem with VR is this:




Problems:

1) can't see people around me or communicate with people.
2) can't move in the world anyway still need shitty controls to move around with, half life vr demonstrated this feels extremely bad.
3) requires lots of movement to do anything
4) sits on your head and is annoying as hell after a while
5) blocks all natural light have fun getting eyes that look like this after getting laser beamed by led lights for hours if you play each day.



6) sweat that builds up

7 ) face imprints because it needs to sit on your face.




Then about how populaire VR really is. Let's look at twitch won't we. a game platform where many people play games on and is a good indication if a game is actually played or not or becomes successful or not.

First VR game played:

First: VR chat 2000 viewers
Second: was not found.

Basically its deader then dead, lineage 2 has more viewers then that and its a advertisement for a private server channel mostly rofl.

Why do streamers specially because VR is entertaining to look at stil avoid using it? its a pain in the ass to use it.

Now u can ignore all those issue's all day long much like what people did back in the 3D space where sony did a massive push into the 3D scene, every tv was 3D capable, movies where 3D in the cinema and even the next nintendo handheld moved to 3D. Everybody was on the 3D train and look a few years later now? 3D? even nvidia support official dropped a few years ago. It's non existent.

Then smaller markets also are more interesting for indie games because they will simple not be found or noticed on bigger marketplaces as they will just be added towards the swamp of indie games. This is something developers with switch vs steam went into a few times. Where they sold better on switch then steam because most people didn't even saw it on steam. It's also valid critisime from tim sweeney no matter if you like it or not, steam does a piss poor job promoting indie games that are from smaller company's which makes them floke to other platforms.

So more software could be cplained simply because of this, it happens with the switch for that exact same reason. Obviously u could also see it the other way around that people are just more interested into it but then the twitch part kinda disproves that.

Then about bigger games.

Other bigger projects like half life VR are created for company's to sell there expensive as shit VR glasses to dig money out of a group of people to never look at them again. I feel bad for anybody investing into that 1000 buck valve VR glasses solution. They paid like what 1000+ with the game for it, and what are the glasses doing right now? collecting dust in a corner.

So for money reasons company's are probably still invested into it, much like how 3D sold tv's again temporarily. the moment 4k was around the corner 3D had no use towards them anymore because they had another reason to sell tv's now and it was killed overnight.

That's why i conclude that VR is fundamentally broken and it will go down the same route that happened with 3D.
1. Fixed by mixed reality reconstruction. IE: This, without a greenscreen.


2. VR has some of the best movement systems invented in gaming.

3. Nope. Most games can be played standing or seated in one spot.

4. And yet this will be fixed with smaller headsets.

5. You're exposed to blue light; nothing you're not used to, and you can always use a filter.

VR can never go down the same route as 3D as that time has passed; 3D died in a few years; VR has lived for twice that length and only grows with no sign of stopping.
 
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DarthBuzzer

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It gets bigger every day but still regular tv gaming will always be bigger,

VR becomes more relevant as they improve the technology, Alyx is the only AAA VR game so far, VR sure is more immersive than regular gaming.
I wouldn't say this for certain. VR/AR devices will likely number in the billions - replacing phones and such. A platform that large could easily be the biggest form of gaming, and even easier still to become the main interface for gaming.
 

Romulus

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Half Life Alyx is the one game that keeps getting quoted but I remember how sobering the Steam stats for that game were.

For the month of May, less than two months after its March 23rd release Half Life: Alyx was down to an average player base of just 1,100. And this was during lockdown when every man and his dog have been gaming.

Very sad that not more people are playing it, and very grim for future prospects of other publishers putting that much effort into a VR exclusive.
And I remember seeing Doom Eternal drop off that stats page too for a long while before rebounding, yet it sold in the millions. Sales are what matters, not steam or twitch "stats." Steam stats outside of sales do not fund future projects. Alyx was #1 on the bestseller page for days, top 5 for a while.
 
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DarthBuzzer

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Comfort options also reduce immersion to the extent that you're asking, "What's the point of VR then?"

I'm a badass space marine saving the moon base but I can't do it without a cage around my head and blacking out every time I turn.
Comfort options never take away the point of VR; they simply reduce immersion - but the boost in immersion is already so high that the hit is not that large.

I also said in a previous comment that this will get a lot better across the board thanks to increased refresh rates and movement-synced haptics. With those in tow, most people will likely be completely fine without any comfort options.
 

YeulEmeralda

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Fusion power and Holodecks don't exist. VR and cloud gaming does. What are you talking about?
Look I emulate 15 year old PS2 games I don't care about the future of gaming all that much. Some of the stuff I see VR owners throw about reminds me of Star Citizen- that's all I'll say.
 

FunkMiller

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VR won’t actually take off until it’s wireless and doesn’t feel like your strapping a fucking postbox to your face. I have PSVR, but it’s clunky as shit. It’s day will come, but not for another ten years.
 

CuNi

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Take Two CEO:
"VR is stupid and I'm glad we didn't do anything there!"
NeoGAF:
"He's a CEO, what do you know!"

Guys.. Gabe Newell and Half-Life: Alyx would like to speak a word with.
I just want to point out that you, this forum, has voted Half-Life: Alyx over Death Stranding in the tournament, so if VR is a gimmick and dead, I dread to think what that means for Death Stranding and Kojima-san!
 

DarthBuzzer

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I mean, look at sony, they would rather market the PS5 around the SSD than VR.
They're not ready to reveal their next gen headset yet.

VR is going to be a central pillar for Sony. It's the reason why PS5 has DualSense and Tempest audio, and they have PSVR2 coming out in the next 1-2 years alongside another headset (PSVR3?) planned 5 years down the line. Definitely a big deal for them, and will be their central focus on PS6 marketing.
 
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Romulus

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I mean, look at sony, they would rather market the PS5 around the SSD than VR.
Let's just completely change the formula of what made the PS4 successful, or all sony consoles for that matter. VR can exist and be more successful without transforming the console. lol. Makes zero sense.

Additionally, the SSD will really help VR.
 

lukilladog

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They're not ready to reveal their next gen headset yet.

VR is going to be a central pillar for Sony. It's the reason why PS5 has DualSense and Tempest audio, and they have PSVR2 coming out in the next 1-2 years alongside another headset (PSVR3?) planned 5 years down the line. Definitely a big deal for them, and will be their central focus on PS6 marketing.
They don´t need to reveal anything to say something like "designed for the next gen VR experience".

:lollipop_sleeping:
 

Resenge

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They don´t need to reveal anything to say something like "designed for the next gen VR experience".

:lollipop_sleeping:
You are correct for once, yay you.

They already said they support PSVR out of the box and have unofficially hinted at PSVR 2.


[edit]
Fixed some wrong info
 
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Wizz-Art

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I personally don't care for it, actually none of my group of friends/family are interested in VR. Cash is no problem, I just wanna game on a big screen and chill on my couch with a controller in my hands, that's more then good enough for me and I have a feeling that most gamers think the same,
 

captainclutch777

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I think a few laps in my VR racing sim would change your mind rather quickly.

It's the most immersive experience I've had and it's incredibly fun. Monitors can't compare. Hearing someone come up beside you and turning your head to look next to you to see them pulling up on a straight at 200mph and positioning your car for a defensive line going into T1...👌
 
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Lanrutcon

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Ah, another VR thread.

1 "You're wrong, VR is fine. It's just still in it's early stages! One day it'll be great! It's getting bigger every day!"
2 <VR fails to take off because of a million obvious reasons>
3 Someone notices and tells it like it is
4 Goto 1
 

Resenge

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They said PSVR2 is coming?.
Wow, correct twice in one day, must be a record, have a cookie. I have edited my original post to reflect this.

Not officially announced no, but here is what we do know.

We have nothing to say about any potential next-gen VR product at this stage. We continue to believe that VR has the potential to be a really meaningful part of the future of interactive entertainment.
That is the official line, of course they are not going to announce PSVR 2 until its ready but the bolded part tells you everything you want to know.

There is also this.

Sony’s Dominic Mallinson. They covered a lot of the same ground, but Mallinson did say he didn’t expect PSVR 2 to launch alongside PS5. “There’s no reason for us to coincide it with a new console,” he explained. “From the point of view of the consumer, to be bombarded with many many things — oh, you have to buy this, you have to buy that — is a message that we don’t want to send. In some ways, it’s good to have a little breathing space between those things.”
“We’re very happy with those numbers and very happy with the position,” Mallinson noted. “But we know we can do better. every single one of those is capable of delivering a great VR experience. So we’d like to convert many, many more of those people to be PSVR users. And we won’t just stop with PS4.”
Not to mention the numerous patents Sony has filed on VR tech over the past year or two.


Here's some links if you care to educate yourself.


PlayStation’s Dominic Mallinson on next-gen VR, wireless, gaze tracking, foveated rendering, and AR
Sony nuked PlayStation VR’s biggest problem by promising PS5 support
PSVR 2 – Everything We Know About Next Generation PSVR
PSVR 2: Everything We Know About Sony’s Unannounced Headset
 
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CuNi

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Ah, another VR thread.

1 "You're wrong, VR is fine. It's just still in its early stages! One day it'll be great! It's getting bigger every day!"
2 <VR fails to take off because of a million obvious reasons>
3 Someone notices and tells it like it is
4 Goto 1
Please explain to me how "VR fails to take off", when Oculus released a new VR Headset to steal even more data, the HP Reverb G2 is being built as a consumer product, the Index is still so far backordered that it'll probably take the rest of the year to catch up to current demand?

That's like me saying "Oh, PS5 is sold out? Guess it's failing to take off if so few people only have it" lol.
 

DeepEnigma

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They don't waste money on dedicated servers either, and look at the shitshow in RDO/GTAO (PC versions mainly).
 
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Lanrutcon

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Please explain to me how "VR fails to take off", when Oculus released a new VR Headset to steal even more data, the HP Reverb G2 is being built as a consumer product, the Index is still so far backordered that it'll probably take the rest of the year to catch up to current demand?

That's like me saying "Oh, PS5 is sold out? Guess it's failing to take off if so few people only have it" lol.
Ah, another VR thread.

1 "You're wrong, VR is fine. It's just still in it's early stages! One day it'll be great! It's getting bigger every day!"
2 <VR fails to take off because of a million obvious reasons>
3 Someone notices and tells it like it is
4 Goto 1