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[Topher]

Yes as were some of their other games.

I think some liberties were taken with the thread title as bait if I am being honest because the quote in the Tweet is

Take-Two still won't put its new games into the service because it makes rational decisions

And the actual quote from him is

However, he added that this move by Microsoft doesn't change how Take-Two views the subscription opportunity. "No, it won't affect our decisions," Zelnick says. "Because our decisions are rational."

Not sure if ChiefDada was intentional in that thread title or what but this entire thread is nothing but inviting sniping from each side

This is why I think it is best if folks just use the actual article title for the thread title.

 

[BigLee74]

No shit, Sherlock.

If you think you can make more money selling Xbox copies of the game than MS are willing to pay you to put it on GP day 1, then you won’t do it.

But you’ll be there eventually to reach those that didn’t bite - anything to keep that micro-transaction revenue steadily flowing.

 

[adamsapple]

Not sure if ChiefDada was intentional in that thread title or what but this entire thread is nothing but inviting sniping from each side

ChiefDada 's services are best left in the Graphical Fidelity thread, leave thread making like this to Pro's like Draugoth

 

[StreetsofBeige]

So do Ubisoft and EA and both have day 1 sub plans. I think Take 2 will eventually as well, it will just be their own thing.

Maybe. The only thing is T2 doesnt have a lot of games that come out. With basketball being an annual release. Unless someone wants to count the tons of games they made 15 years ago and they are BC with current systems.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

What does this have to do with anything?

 

[Draugoth]

ChiefDada 's services are best left in the Graphical Fidelity thread, leave thread making like this to Pro's like Draugoth

Me writing down wrong title threads:

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

This is why I think it is best if folks just use the actual article title for the thread title.

ChiefDada 's services are best left in the Graphical Fidelity thread, leave thread making like this to Pro's like Draugoth

Only reason I wonder if it was intentional was he made it look like an actual quote yet I never saw that quote anywhere, conveniently removing new for our games

Personally think a mod should change the title because its misleading at best

 

[adamsapple]

Only reason I wonder if it was intentional was he made it look like an actual quote yet I never saw that quote anywhere, conveniently removing new for our games

Personally think a mod should change the title because its misleading at best

Yeah, paraphrasing would have been ok, but using quotes implies that it is a direct statement, which it isn't. It's a mish-mash of two different statements being presented as one, incorrectly.

Hopefully it's fixed soon, cause we all know most of the audience reacts directly to the thread title, and doesn't read the actual interview or contents of the OP.

 

[soulbait]

Title of this thread needs to be changed. He is talking about new releases. The title makes you think he is talking about any games in general.

It does not make sense for Take Two to put their games on GamePass the day they come out. They are not the ones trying to grow GamePass subscriptions. It makes sense for Microsoft, because it helps sell the subscriptions. Take Two seems to add their games later, after most sales have been done, to either drive interest in an upcoming sequel or to make money via in game transactions, that would out weight what they would make just discounting the game.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

At least the thread title has been changed to more accurately reflect what was said

Thank you mods

 

[FoxMcChief]

But don’t they have a handful of games on both Game Pass and PS+?

 

[Mr Moose]

Says the guy that put RDR2 on Game Pass for a period of time.

Wait wasn't GTA V put on Gamepass?

But don’t they have a handful of games on both Game Pass and PS+?

Someone change the title because people sure as shit aren't reading further than it.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Someone change the title because people sure as shit aren't reading further than it.

Who the fuck reads shit in OP’s? I even half glance at poster avatars. Just look at your wonderful one.

 

[ChiefDada]

I will proudly admit if/when I'm acting as an instigator/troll of the Sony Pony variety, but in this case I wasn't. I thought the context, i.e. new games arriving on subscription services day one, was categorically obvious.

Mods please edit the title.

 

[ChiefDada]

The title edit is a bit of an overcorrection as I do believe it is newsworthy when CEO of major third-party developer comes out saying putting games on subs services day and date is an irrational decision.

But whatevs. Sincere apologies for those who were unintentionally mislead by original title.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Someone change the title because people sure as shit aren't reading further than it.

Sounds like people need to be better at not making shitty thread titles . I got shit to do!

 

[adamsapple]

The title edit is a bit of an overcorrection

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

The title edit is a bit of an overcorrection as I do believe it is newsworthy when CEO of major third-party developer comes out saying putting games on subs services day and date is an irrational decision.

But whatevs. Sincere apologies for those who were unintentionally mislead by original title.

You had to know how people would jump on that original thread title

Btw it only really makes sense to not get put on GP if your going to sell a billion copies anyhow

Many smaller games have benefitted from being on GP so its really on a case by case basis

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Why do so many Western games personalities always talk about Xbox? Even if it's as a criticism, it's like well no shit, we know this, it doesn't need to keep being said.

Just feels like at times it's done to keep gaming conversations revolving around Xbox, which gets boring. Xbox isn't that important as a platform these days, the market is proving as such to be true. But the way it takes up space in conversation you'd think it's got like 80% of market share worldwide.

It's pretty crazy IMHO.

 

[Fess]

That’s why they want a big release every quarter. The plan is to have another exciting thing there when people start thinking about cancelling their sub. Eventually another CoD arrives. And so on.

 

[mayham2199]

That’s why they want a big release every quarter. The plan is to have another exciting thing there when people start thinking about cancelling their sub. Eventually another CoD arrives. And so on.

Yep I still don't think that will change anything but that is the plan.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

There was that one CEO that said something similar...

 

[SHA]

Make zombie games, it's going to work, believe me, it doesn't have to be cod to be a zombie game.

 

[SHA]

"We make rational decisions" is a funny thing to say when your whole fucking company is being carried by GTA.

People love bad guys stories, just like Breaking Bad.

 

[Three]

"We make rational decisions" is a funny thing to say when your whole fucking company is being carried by GTA.

Hey, at least it isn't being carried by things they didn't even make.

BTW T2s mobile division and other 2K games is doing great.

 

[Jaybe]

As a publisher, Take Two probably doesn’t like that Xbox / Game Pass is devaluing the games market with its day one releases.

 

[adamsapple]

Why do so many Western games personalities always talk about Xbox? Even if it's as a criticism, it's like well no shit, we know this, it doesn't need to keep being said.

Yes, why do they answer a question about Xbox Game Pass when asked a question about Xbox Game Pass.

 

[poppabk]

The title edit is a bit of an overcorrection as I do believe it is newsworthy when CEO of major third-party developer comes out saying putting games on subs services day and date is an irrational decision.

But whatevs. Sincere apologies for those who were unintentionally mislead by original title.

Edit: it's not actually clear what he said. He just said they weren't going to change their decisions because they have made a rational decision.

 

[Three]

Yes, why do they answer a question about Xbox Game Pass when asked a question about Xbox Game Pass.

He's saying why is the western journalist talking about and asking about xbox or gamepass. Not the CEO. There's this dumb idea that everybody should be following xbox's bad strategy to their demise.

 

[Ozriel]

The title edit is a bit of an overcorrection as I do believe it is newsworthy when CEO of major third-party developer comes out saying putting games on subs services day and date is an irrational decision.

That’s not what the dude said, though.

 

[clarky]

This is why we dont get more games from them. We went from this, to getting smaller games overtime.

Take 2 is slowly milking their big games.

This makes me sad. They used to put out some great titles. Loved Manhunt & Bully in particular.

 

[AmuroChan]

I'm no psychic, but my sense is the decrease in revenue of this year's COD compared to previous years is going to be significant. In the Insomniac or FTC leaks (I don't remember which one), Sony experimented with putting Horizon II on PS+ and their internal estimated loss of potential revenue was something like $80m, and that was not even a day and date release on PS+. As someone who loves the business side of the industry, I'm going to be all over that Q4 earnings call for MSFT and dig into the numbers.

 

[Three]

This is why we dont get more games from them. We went from this, to getting smaller games overtime.

Take 2 is slowly milking their big games.

Welcome to GaaS my friend. Now do one for Rare.

 

[Gojiira]

LOL, What other publishers are doing is putting their games on their own subscription services.

The reality is that the statements in the thread are not what many are trying to point out. So, yes, it's not rational for TakeTwo to put its games (imagine doing it with a GTAVI that's sold by default) on a competitor's subscription service day one. But it is rational to put your own game on your own subscription service. Even more so if you continue selling the game on the rest of the platforms normally.

LMAO no the point should be that T2 doesnt see Gamepass as a viable or profitable partnership…Nowhere does it suggest they see potential in their own subscription service with day one releases.
Literally they make more money by direct sales to customers, just like every other publisher.
Its irrational to take a small monetary incentive from MS and release day one on GP, losing millions of potential sales.
Its rational to release their games and sell directly to customers.

 

[Frwrd]

Microsoft defence force incoming

FTFY.

 

[XXL]

I'm not even sure of what's controversial here?

Microsoft themselves is taking Day One games away from the standard Game Pass tiers on Xbox.

It was never rational, people just didn't want to listen.

 

[StereoVsn]

Meh, they got NBA 2k 24 on there right now. Unless he's talking about their flagships GTA and RDR. Well duh, they're not. Those things sell gangbusters.

Meh, didn't see the part "new games".

The reason they throw NBA in there is that by the time they do so the game drops to peanuts anyway and they will make a ton more money on MTX. NBA2K is all about MTX so that’s usually a smart move hence why you see 2K on both PSN and GamePass quite often.

 

[feynoob]

Welcome to GaaS my friend. Now do one for Rare.

Rare is dead. Whatever we have is just a corpse.

 

[Darsxx82]

LMAO no the point should be that T2 doesnt see Gamepass as a viable or profitable partnership…Nowhere does it suggest they see potential in their own subscription service with day one releases.
Literally they make more money by direct sales to customers, just like every other publisher.
Its irrational to take a small monetary incentive from MS and release day one on GP, losing millions of potential sales.
Its rational to release their games and sell directly to customers.

First, whether you like it or not the trend of publishers is bringing their games to their own subscription services. Ubi and EA already do it day one and TakeTwo in some cases too. Therefore, that you would like another situation because you hate suscriptions services is one thing and the reality is another.

Next, TakeTwo CEO isn't saying it's irrational to bring games to GPass. Nor is it irrational that other Studios or MS itself are being irrational by releasing their games on GPass on day one. He is saying that for TakeTwo specific case it would be irrational to launch its games day one on a competitor's subscription service. Even more so when its IPs are so popular that sales are assured even during more than one or two generations (GTA, REdDead).

In general, the CEO's words are not at all controversial nor do these give rise to any discussion, but we already know that we only need to mention GPass and a misleading thread title and the party begins.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This is why we dont get more games from them. We went from this, to getting smaller games overtime.

Take 2 is slowly milking their big games.

Well, you cant blame them.

If you added up all the sales and profits from those 20-30 games during the PS2/early 360 era they probably dont even add up to one giant GTA 4 or 5.

I think GTA3 is what really kicked off giant sales. Then RDR is probably next. Amazingly, as a two game studio the past 10 years+ they seem to be still doing very well.

Only problem is if GTA6 somehow semi-bombs or whatever game after that (ie. RDR3) bombs too, they are in trouble.

The company actually survives heavy on GTA Online, RDR and NBA mtx now and they seem to make money. For a long time, the company actually lost money most years even when GTA3 was the craze.

 

[scarlet0pimp]

Gta is a once in decade event, so yes it would be silly to allow people to subscribe to game pass for a month or 2 to play. CoD is an annual event that will bring people in for a few months each year again and again

 

[DForce]

 

[mayham2199]

CoD is an annual event that will bring people in for a few months each year again and again

Maybe, that's the thing is no one knows and MS is about to find out. You say a few months but what if it's just a couple of months or just a month? Now they've let someone who maybe normally buys the game for $70 get it for $20-40. Even less if they do it on PC. My guess is there's nothing special about COD that will somehow make it work better on GP compared to other games. Most devs and industry leaders have been clear about what day 1 games on sub services do. I just don't see COD being the game that somehow changes that formula.

 

[jroc74]

First, whether you like it or not the trend of publishers is bringing their games to their own subscription services. Ubi and EA already do it day one and TakeTwo in some cases too. Therefore, that you would like another situation because you hate suscriptions services is one thing and the reality is another.

Next, TakeTwo CEO isn't saying it's irrational to bring games to GPass. Nor is it irrational that other Studios or MS itself are being irrational by releasing their games on GPass on day one. He is saying that for TakeTwo specific case it would be irrational to launch its games day one on a competitor's subscription service. Even more so when its IPs are so popular that sales are assured even during more than one or two generations (GTA, REdDead).

In general, the CEO's words are not at all controversial nor do these give rise to any discussion, but we already know that we only need to mention GPass and a misleading thread title and the party begins.

Thats not what's said in the article tho.

"A subscription service" is not the same as specifically saying Game Pass or a competitors sub service.

"I think that offering a frontline title with a premium price in a subscription service, day and date, will push consumers to that subscription service for at least a period of time," Zelnick told GamesIndustry.biz.

However, he added that this move by Microsoft doesn't change how Take-Two views the subscription opportunity. "No, it won't affect our decisions," Zelnick says. "Because our decisions are rational."

Same thing he said about PlayStation's stance on Plus:

Take-Two CEO Strauss Zelnick agrees with PlayStation's subscription plan

Take-Two CEO Strauss Zelnick agrees with PlayStation's stance on not releasing brand new AAA products into a subscripti…

www.gamesindustry.biz

Take-Two CEO Strauss Zelnick agrees with PlayStation's stance on not releasing brand new AAA products into a subscription service on the day they're released.

"We've supported various subscription services and we're happy to do so," Zelnick said during his keynote. "Our scepticism has been around making frontline console products available day and date with subscription. That doesn't make any sense to us, because economically speaking, we don't think consumers are prepared to pay for that. And we can't afford to turn our business upside down in a way that doesn't make sense economically. There always has to be an intersection between what the consumer wants and what the publisher is able to do. And you know, it doesn't make sense to do that for our properties. That's our opinion, and I think Sony agrees with us, because it said so."

"It can potentially be great for catalogue properties, sales of properties that have been in the market for a while and their price has been reduced. It can make economic sense to offer those on a subscription basis."

He's taking in general, not a competitors service.

 

[feynoob]

Gta is a once in decade event, so yes it would be silly to allow people to subscribe to game pass for a month or 2 to play. CoD is an annual event that will bring people in for a few months each year again and again

It shouldn't on a subscription service based on how highly anticipated it is. It should be fair that people buy it first.

 

[Pelta88]

I expect the marketing deal to be egregious and the XB version optimisation to be somewhat of an afterthought.

 

[Darsxx82]

Thats not what's said in the article tho.

"A subscription service" is not the same as specifically saying Game Pass or a competitors sub service.

"I think that offering a frontline title with a premium price in a subscription service, day and date, will push consumers to that subscription service for at least a period of time," Zelnick told GamesIndustry.biz.

However, he added that this move by Microsoft doesn't change how Take-Two views the subscription opportunity. "No, it won't affect our decisions," Zelnick says. "Because our decisions are rational."

Same thing he said about PlayStation's stance on Plus:

Take-Two CEO Strauss Zelnick agrees with PlayStation's subscription plan

Take-Two CEO Strauss Zelnick agrees with PlayStation's stance on not releasing brand new AAA products into a subscripti…

www.gamesindustry.biz

Take-Two CEO Strauss Zelnick agrees with PlayStation's stance on not releasing brand new AAA products into a subscription service on the day they're released.

"We've supported various subscription services and we're happy to do so," Zelnick said during his keynote. "Our scepticism has been around making frontline console products available day and date with subscription. That doesn't make any sense to us, because economically speaking, we don't think consumers are prepared to pay for that. And we can't afford to turn our business upside down in a way that doesn't make sense economically. There always has to be an intersection between what the consumer wants and what the publisher is able to do. And you know, it doesn't make sense to do that for our properties. That's our opinion, and I think Sony agrees with us, because it said so."

"It can potentially be great for catalogue properties, sales of properties that have been in the market for a while and their price has been reduced. It can make economic sense to offer those on a subscription basis."

He's taking in general, not a competitors service.

No, he is talking about his own situation and highlights it several times.

"That doesn't make any sense TO US"

"There always has to be an intersection between what the consumer wants and what the publisher is able to do. And you know, it doesn't make sense to do that FOR OURS properties".

Among other things, because it would be disrespectful and arrogant towards the decision and specific economic position, situations or interests of other Publishers (not just MS with Gamepass) and Studios that decide to release their games day one on their own subscription services (Ubi, EA) or those of competitors ( Capcom, THQ, AAA-AA or independent Studios).

Not to mention that in no case does any of the situations He make any attempt to despise and criticize general subscription services as some are trying/wanting to assume from those words.

 

[jroc74]

No, he is talking about his own situation and highlights it several times.







Among other things, because it would be disrespectful and arrogant towards the decision and specific economic position, situations or interests of other Publishers (not just MS with Gamepass) and Studios that decide to release their games day one on their own subscription services (Ubi, EA) or those of competitors ( Capcom, THQ, AAA-AA or independent Studios).

Not to mention that in no case does any of the situations He make any attempt to despise and criticize general subscription services as some are trying/wanting to assume from those words.

Right, he's not talking about a competitor's sub service, I stated that in my post.

Your post was making it like he was talking about a competitor's service.

For the part I underlined....this thread and the article I posted...he's literally talking about subscription services in general....and offering his opinion. Which can be seen as criticizing.

He criticizes how companies choose to use it. I always say Game Pass itself isnt the problem..its how MS is trying to position it than can be a problem.

 

[Three]

Gta is a once in decade event, so yes it would be silly to allow people to subscribe to game pass for a month or 2 to play. CoD is an annual event that will bring people in for a few months each year again and again

This statement doesn't mention GTA specifically and applies to Take 2 in general.

 

[scarlet0pimp]

Maybe, that's the thing is no one knows and MS is about to find out. You say a few months but what if it's just a couple of months or just a month? Now they've let someone who maybe normally buys the game for $70 get it for $20-40. Even less if they do it on PC. My guess is there's nothing special about COD that will somehow make it work better on GP compared to other games. Most devs and industry leaders have been clear about what day 1 games on sub services do. I just don't see COD being the game that somehow changes that formula.

Is a bit of a risk for sure, people might be tempted to come back multiple times a year when big updates come out or for holiday events. Also people might get bored and not come back after the first month.
I have bought most cods over the years some I have loved others I have hated. I hated cold War recently but love modern warfare 2019. I stopped playing cold War after the first update, modern warfare I dropped into occasionally until mw2 came out after vanguard dissapointed too.
Hopefully if they put the older ones on gp the populations will hold out for longer so people can go back to the old ones if they want.
Favorite cod ever is probably world at war just for clarity.