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Opinion Taking Sonic Seriously - or - "the Blue Hedgehog" fallacy

What's the ideal tone of the series?


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    119
  • Poll closed .

MvCSpiderman

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Mar 22, 2017
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I'm not trying to portray Sega evil and Nintendo good, here. There's just the reality of what works both franchises. Mario is multifaceted since he's a funny looking human that's also a plumber. Tremendous amount of direction you can go with that, and thank the heavens Mario hasn't gone "full anime" like Sonic. Nintendo knows Mario's lane. Sega only recently understands what makes Sonic work is the old school scrolling action starring an cute 90's mascot.

I also don't buy your "blatant pandering" comment. Old school fans, such as myself, know what makes Sonic work. He goes fast in one direction. It's never worked in full 3-D and all those Sonic Adventure games have aged like milk. Sega had overextended the brand because it's their mascot and they were gonna do whatever they could to keep him relevant. Unfortunately, he became a joke. I've always viewed Sonic as a one trick pony, but a classic one at that. Sega ruined Sonic with so many failed modern attempts. Square peg, round hole.

Don't even get me started on the diehard fans. Sega went full anime with Sonic and that has to be the worst aspect of them all. It's attracted all the weeaboos with its inane story and characters. This is what ultimately turns so many old school gamers away from Sonic. There's nothing edgy about what Sega has done with Sonic. It's a teenage weeaboos wet dream with all that anime bullshit. We all know what you can find in Google image search if you start looking for those Sonic characters...

Sonic has always been what it was suppose to be; A basic side scrolling 90's mascot that goes fast. That's what old school fans love about him. There's a lot of beauty in that simplicity. I think the reality for many of the diehards is they don't realize they're no longer the target audience. You're too old to be giving a shit about the story or characters of this franchise. It's for kids. Let the kids have their fun without the older gamers trying to force some semblance of "maturity" into the franchise.

It's like being in your 30's while still being a Power Rangers fan and expecting the franchise to grow up with you. No, dude. You grew up. In the meantime, lets hope Sega keeps letting Sonic do what he does best. Fast, 2-D scrolling action. If Sega can stick to that, then they have my attention. It's something I can enjoy with my nieces and nephews. Kind of like every Mario game. Funny how that works.
Sonic can't sell as a niche fan pandering 2D fast jumping game.

They have to do something with him to sell. Unleashed, Colors, and Adventure 1 and 2 had issues, some would say they are bad games, all sold over 2 million copies.

Issues Is Sonic has trouble selling 1 million in recent years outside Mania because the games aren't finished and bad. But the good ones that people like did sell.

I think the solution is to swap out teams for Sonic. Sonic Team can't make a 5 million copy selling Sonic even if they cut the price and give it away. But Crash can even after a 7 year hiatus. That's pretty telling.
 

ShirAhava

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Jun 10, 2008
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Personally I feel the cartoons did the serious thing better than the games I've played.

Sonic Satam was a pretty dark cartoons for kids.
Bits like this were dramatic.

I've wanted a game based on SatAM/Archie comics since forever

Its the best version of Sonic in anything
 
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SonicJams

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maybe im getting very heated over this debate but honestly i despise it when people try to discredit Sonic's genuine attempts at being cool, and having good storytelling simply because it's for kids, just the blind hate for Sonic after the genesis era is one of my most hated things about the gaming community. when i grew up after the 90's, sure i played Sonic 1, 2, CD & 3 in a collection, but i grew up with the darker Sonic, and when i was a kid i loved it, i just loved moments like Tails growing as a person and believing in himself, Shadow redeeming himself after wrongly trying to destroy humanity, or Eggman destroying the moon to show his power.

it was that 2000's anime edgyness that made Sonic way more appealing than Mario or anyother mascot to me. sure i still think Mario, Banjo, Spyro, Crash or Rayman are all very fun but Sonic will always be one of those things that's special to me and i always dreamed of seeing a proper Sonic anime/action cartoon without a little 10 year old kid slowing things down (looking at you Sonic X) such as a continuation of the OVA for example.
Same here man. The depth to Sonic's character and stories from that era were what really set him apart from the other platformers for me.
 

Bragr

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Sonic Adventure, Adventure 2, Shadow, Secret Rings, Unleashed and Black Knight all had good storytelling
Scientifically false. You would have to be under 10 to believe this.

Sonic games could have good stories in some fantasy future, but likely something in the line of Pixar or the muppets or something. Which is not a bad thing. We are talking about a blue dumb-looking hedgehog here, there is a limit to how much they can spin this.
 

AzafuseYugi

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Apr 20, 2021
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Scientifically false. You would have to be under 10 to believe this.

Sonic games could have good stories in some fantasy future, but likely something in the line of Pixar or the muppets or something. Which is not a bad thing. We are talking about a blue dumb-looking hedgehog here, there is a limit to how much they can spin this.
except for moments when there's actual character growth, action, stakes, interesting lore, good morals, and some truly "earned" moments.

Sonic Adventure has Tails learning to believe in himself and go by himself without Sonic's help, Gamma's dilemma that deconstructs the whole turning animals into robots, ending with one of the saddest moments in the series, a neglecting that ignoring his daughter's wishes in the name of war, Amy convincing Shadow to spare humanity wich is followed by a good redemption arc, ending with shadow sacrificing himself, Shadow being mislead by his "father".

sure it may not be a masterpiece, the games have flaws and it's obvious it's still aimed at kids, but i woudn't call that bad. if anything Sonic already had some pixar-esque morals already like Believing in yourself, opening your heart to others (Adventure 1), letting your feelings out or enjoying life while it lasts. (Secret Rings & Black Knight).

truth is i think stuff like that is too soft for an action series that is sold on being rebellious and full of attitude. hence i think the anime style of storytelling makes more sense for Sonic, and it set it apart from other platformers.
 
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Karmic Raze

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Sonic to me is like Mario. There’s not much there in terms of story, and it shouldn’t be taken literally. I’ve never got attached to the characters and the games are usually one-offs, so there you have it, folks.
 
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AzafuseYugi

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...Sonic has a story?
Yes.
Sonic to me is like Mario. There’s not much there in terms of story, and it shouldn’t be taken literally. I’ve never got attached to the characters and the games are usually one-offs, so there you have it, folks.
i mean have you played Adventure 1 or 2? bonus points if you add Shadow, 06 or Unleashed?
the games have consistant characters, lore and continuity. even the classic games had it with Sonic 3 being a direct continuation of 2.
 

Dave_at_Home

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maybe im getting very heated over this debate but honestly i despise it when people try to discredit Sonic's genuine attempts at being cool, and having good storytelling simply because it's for kids, just the blind hate for Sonic after the genesis era is one of my most hated things about the gaming community. when i grew up after the 90's, sure i played Sonic 1, 2, CD & 3 in a collection, but i grew up with the darker Sonic, and when i was a kid i loved it, i just loved moments like Tails growing as a person and believing in himself, Shadow redeeming himself after wrongly trying to destroy humanity, or Eggman destroying the moon to show his power.

it was that 2000's anime edgyness that made Sonic way more appealing than Mario or anyother mascot to me. sure i still think Mario, Banjo, Spyro, Crash or Rayman are all very fun but Sonic will always be one of those things that's special to me and i always dreamed of seeing a proper Sonic anime/action cartoon without a little 10 year old kid slowing things down (looking at you Sonic X) such as a continuation of the OVA for example.
I guess we're just at an impass here and that's okay.
 

Meicyn

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except for moments when there's actual character growth, action, stakes, interesting lore, good morals, and some truly "earned" moments.

Sonic Adventure has Tails learning to believe in himself and go by himself without Sonic's help, Gamma's dilemma that deconstructs the whole turning animals into robots, ending with one of the saddest moments in the series, a neglecting that ignoring his daughter's wishes in the name of war, Amy convincing Shadow to spare humanity wich is followed by a good redemption arc, ending with shadow sacrificing himself, Shadow being mislead by his "father".

sure it may not be a masterpiece, the games have flaws and it's obvious it's still aimed at kids, but i woudn't call that bad. if anything Sonic already had some pixar-esque morals already like Believing in yourself, opening your heart to others (Adventure 1), letting your feelings out or enjoying life while it lasts. (Secret Rings & Black Knight).

truth is i think stuff like that is too soft for an action series that is sold on being rebellious and full of attitude. hence i think the anime style of storytelling makes more sense for Sonic, and it set it apart from other platformers.
It’s really weird watching someone go to bat this hard for Sonic over elements you can find in a few episodes of Paw Patrol. It’s not that serious dude, it’s cartoon level content. It really doesn’t need defending.
 

AzafuseYugi

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It’s really weird watching someone go to bat this hard for Sonic over elements you can find in a few episodes of Paw Patrol. It’s not that serious dude, it’s cartoon level content. It really doesn’t need defending.
except people really act like it's "oh forbidden sonic should only be sunshine and rainbows no story only misguided rehashing of Sonic 1 allowed"
 
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Meicyn

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except people really act like it's "oh forbidden sonic should only be sunshine and rainbows no story only misguided rehashing of Sonic 1 allowed"
 

MvCSpiderman

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Gamma's dilemma that deconstructs the whole turning animals into robots, ending with one of the saddest moments in the series,
? it was so sad the bird escaped and obtained freedom? It should have stayed trapped in the robot and died in the explosion?
 

AzafuseYugi

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? it was so sad the bird escaped and obtained freedom? It should have stayed trapped in the robot and died in the explosion?
like i said it was a dilema because the robot died and was very good friends with amy but he also freed the little bird inside wich wanted freedom.
 

MvCSpiderman

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like i said it was a dilema because the robot died and was very good friends with amy but he also freed the little bird inside wich wanted freedom.
That's not much of a dilemma. Robots interaction with Amy was a poorly written 2 minute scene, then a 1 minute scene of her stopping Sonic from freeing the bird. The rest of the robots 3 hour story doesn't have Amy in it.
 

AzafuseYugi

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That's not much of a dilemma. Robots interaction with Amy was a poorly written 2 minute scene, then a 1 minute scene of her stopping Sonic from freeing the bird. The rest of the robots 3 hour story doesn't have Amy in it.
but i mean they were still friends regardless, and amy tought him how to "feel"
 

Jubenhimer

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Ideally, for a series like Sonic, you'd want a balance of both. You can have quippy dialogue and characters, and dark dramatic moments. Basically, a tone similar to Avatar, Teen TItans, Buffy: The Vampire Slayer, etc. is the perfect level for something like Sonic.
 
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Yoshi

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I only care about the gameplay, so as long as it remains an arcady, super fast, linear platformer, do with the story whatever sells best. If it makes no difference, I prefer the lighthearted tone of classic Sonic.
 

Bragr

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except for moments when there's actual character growth, action, stakes, interesting lore, good morals, and some truly "earned" moments.

Sonic Adventure has Tails learning to believe in himself and go by himself without Sonic's help, Gamma's dilemma that deconstructs the whole turning animals into robots, ending with one of the saddest moments in the series, a neglecting that ignoring his daughter's wishes in the name of war, Amy convincing Shadow to spare humanity wich is followed by a good redemption arc, ending with shadow sacrificing himself, Shadow being mislead by his "father".

sure it may not be a masterpiece, the games have flaws and it's obvious it's still aimed at kids, but i woudn't call that bad. if anything Sonic already had some pixar-esque morals already like Believing in yourself, opening your heart to others (Adventure 1), letting your feelings out or enjoying life while it lasts. (Secret Rings & Black Knight).

truth is i think stuff like that is too soft for an action series that is sold on being rebellious and full of attitude. hence i think the anime style of storytelling makes more sense for Sonic, and it set it apart from other platformers.
You are talking about concepts though, just because some storyline results in "believing in yourself" doesn't mean that the narrative that built that idea is good. Everything I have ever seen from Sonic games could be written by any person in a short time, I think we could put together a better story than anything featured in the games in 10 minutes.
 

Saber

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You are talking about concepts though, just because some storyline results in "believing in yourself" doesn't mean that the narrative that built that idea is good. Everything I have ever seen from Sonic games could be written by any person in a short time, I think we could put together a better story than anything featured in the games in 10 minutes.

Indeed. The fact that Adventure is overglorifiried for such simplistic things is mind blowing.
I'm a fan of Tails and I don't see this overfocused dept on him "believing yourself", when he aways felt like trying do his best. Again not deep, Tails likes Sonic as a brother, follows him and wants to proves himself.
Same with Knuckles being a guardian, same with Amy desperatly going after Sonic. I only feel this is some kind of forced stuff to justify Adventure 2, which is unnecessary darky for no particullar reason other than sucking the dick of Shadow edgyhog.
 

Ryu_Joestar

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Feb 20, 2019
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3D games should maintain the Adventure/Colors cool and edgy vibes while staying colorful like the first 2D ones, i think the Sonic CD incarnation of the character is the perfect example (try looking at the cutscenes of the game and you can spot what I'm trying to say)
 
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Nakasan

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i kind of agree, it doesn't really matter if it's Shonen-light or Sci-fi light, but a good, well written serious Sonic story is good for me
also nobody mentions the OVA, that rocked too.

I don't think Sonic should be "dark", I like it when it's fun and bright and all that good stuff. But the OVA representation of Metal Sonic is the best I've seen for that character. THAT Metal Sonic could be the single slice of unease used to puncture a story where 99% of it is Sonic having a cracking adventure ruining the plans of the buffoon Dr Robotnik.

I love Metal Sonic, and want to see him as an inhuman threat. In an otherwise silly adventure.
 

AzafuseYugi

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3D games should maintain the Adventure/Colors cool and edgy vibes while staying colorful like the first 2D ones, i think the Sonic CD incarnation of the character is the perfect example (try looking at the cutscenes of the game and you can spot what I'm trying to say)
Colors wasn't really cool and edgy, it was mainly silly and wacky but not edgy at all, Sonic only made a bunch of unfunny food jokes for 2 year olds that's not edgy or cool that's inmature and lame.
You are talking about concepts though, just because some storyline results in "believing in yourself" doesn't mean that the narrative that built that idea is good. Everything I have ever seen from Sonic games could be written by any person in a short time, I think we could put together a better story than anything featured in the games in 10 minutes.
Indeed. The fact that Adventure is overglorifiried for such simplistic things is mind blowing.
I'm a fan of Tails and I don't see this overfocused dept on him "believing yourself", when he aways felt like trying do his best. Again not deep, Tails likes Sonic as a brother, follows him and wants to proves himself.
Same with Knuckles being a guardian, same with Amy desperatly going after Sonic. I only feel this is some kind of forced stuff to justify Adventure 2, which is unnecessary darky for no particullar reason other than sucking the dick of Shadow edgyhog.
sure it's not like Sonic plots are, idk, Evangelion levels of deep and complex, but let's remember it's a platformer, aimed at kids, and in that regard their very well done, the stories may have simple goals but there's action, high stakes, drama, and good character interactions and development that make Sonic stories stand out from all the other platformers, let's remember that SA1&2 came out before any other platformer attempted to be "edgy" (like Jak II or Vexx), or reboots of older series trying to be mature, thus Sonic felt different from any other mascot platformer at the time, and very unlike those games where they try to shove in as many dark stuff as possible in a cringy attempt to be mature, Sonic atleast in Adventure 1, 2, Black Knight, Secret Rings keep it atleast comparitively subtle and light, with it being far in between as it still kept all of the essence Sonic had.

even then let's remember that Tails before SA1 was portrayed as a shy little brother that relied on Sonic, and that SA1 was pretty much his comming of age and realization that he won't be able to rely on Sonic forever. wich is shown in SA2 with Tails being more confident and being the one that sets Sonic free (if you count Sonic 2 for Master System as canon, where Tails was kidnapped by Eggman alongside the animals, it makes it even better), compare that to Forces where he was too afraid to fght Chaos 0 and bassicly relied on Classic Sonic to convienently pop out and defeat Chaos.

Gamma was another good example, he started of as a normal Eggman robot doing his orders, but eventually he sees his "older brother" being remodeled into a killing machine after stumbling into the wrong room by mistake, and later finds Amy, with bodns with him and also protects him from Sonic attempting to destroy him, both events awakening the animal inside him and making him rebel against Eggman, and bassicly kill his partners and himself to free the animals inside him, let's remember Amy is the kind of person who quickly befriends people even if they've only meet once Amy still considers Gamma as a friend regardless, and let's also remmenber Gamma is a robot, controlled by an Animal aswell.

i also wonder why the hate for Shadow? like Tails and Gamma in SA1 he was another well developed character, atleast for a kids game, being bassicly brainwashed by his insane creator to destroy humanity after her neice was shot, and having a huge ego, Sonic & Shadow were meant to be complete equals, with both being arrogant and cocky except Sonic has a heart of gold and wants to help people, while Shadow is revenge thirsty and wants to kill people, until the very end where Amy bassicly convinces him that maybe Maria didn't want revenge and that maybe she wanted to protect humanity, thus making Shadow see the world in a different light. he wasn't really "edgy" and was very different to say, vegeta wich in all of DBZ was a psychopath wich only cared about being better than Goku. besides being the edgy anime antihero wich pretty much was already a trope after DBZ, i don't see the similarities.
 
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Sonic is supposed to be Lighthearted and Silly, because he appeals to Kids and Disabled people (not in a bad way either, disabled Kids and Adults LOVE Sonic).

SEGA for some reason wanted to first make Sonic more serious, and then they made him a meme joke (which to me mocks the franchise).

Don't take things too serious with Sonic games, they are designed to be light-hearted and fun.
 
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Bragr

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Colors wasn't really cool and edgy, it was mainly silly and wacky but not edgy at all, Sonic only made a bunch of unfunny food jokes for 2 year olds that's not edgy or cool that's inmature and lame.


sure it's not like Sonic plots are, idk, Evangelion levels of deep and complex, but let's remember it's a platformer, aimed at kids, and in that regard their very well done, the stories may have simple goals but there's action, high stakes, drama, and good character interactions and development that make Sonic stories stand out from all the other platformers, let's remember that SA1&2 came out before any other platformer attempted to be "edgy" (like Jak II or Vexx), or reboots of older series trying to be mature, thus Sonic felt different from any other mascot platformer at the time, and very unlike those games where they try to shove in as many dark stuff as possible in a cringy attempt to be mature, Sonic atleast in Adventure 1, 2, Black Knight, Secret Rings keep it atleast comparitively subtle and light, with it being far in between as it still kept all of the essence Sonic had.

even then let's remember that Tails before SA1 was portrayed as a shy little brother that relied on Sonic, and that SA1 was pretty much his comming of age and realization that he won't be able to rely on Sonic forever. wich is shown in SA2 with Tails being more confident and being the one that sets Sonic free (if you count Sonic 2 for Master System as canon, where Tails was kidnapped by Eggman alongside the animals, it makes it even better), compare that to Forces where he was too afraid to fght Chaos 0 and bassicly relied on Classic Sonic to convienently pop out and defeat Chaos.

Gamma was another good example, he started of as a normal Eggman robot doing his orders, but eventually he sees his "older brother" being remodeled into a killing machine after stumbling into the wrong room by mistake, and later finds Amy, with bodns with him and also protects him from Sonic attempting to destroy him, both events awakening the animal inside him and making him rebel against Eggman, and bassicly kill his partners and himself to free the animals inside him, let's remember Amy is the kind of person who quickly befriends people even if they've only meet once Amy still considers Gamma as a friend regardless, and let's also remmenber Gamma is a robot, controlled by an Animal aswell.

i also wonder why the hate for Shadow? like Tails and Gamma in SA1 he was another well developed character, atleast for a kids game, being bassicly brainwashed by his insane creator to destroy humanity after her neice was shot, and having a huge ego, Sonic & Shadow were meant to be complete equals, with both being arrogant and cocky except Sonic has a heart of gold and wants to help people, while Shadow is revenge thirsty and wants to kill people, until the very end where Amy bassicly convinces him that maybe Maria didn't want revenge and that maybe she wanted to protect humanity, thus making Shadow see the world in a different light. he wasn't really "edgy" and was very different to say, vegeta wich in all of DBZ was a psychopath wich only cared about being better than Goku. besides being the edgy anime antihero wich pretty much was already a trope after DBZ, i don't see the similarities.
Well-developed? have you seen some of the shit they released in this franchise? it's odd how some of this stuff goes through the cutting room, they actually manage to make the story worse than "the princess is kidnapped".



 

AzafuseYugi

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Well-developed? have you seen some of the shit they released in this franchise? it's odd how some of this stuff goes through the cutting room, they actually manage to make the story worse than "the princess is kidnapped".



like i said i agree Sonic 06 was bad, because it's too complex for it's own good.

your using footage of Sonic X, wich cuts down and rushes a lot of the games' story for the sake of having more filler episodes, otherwise, Maria's death is one of the best moments in the actual Sonic Adventure 2.

Sonic generations "tried" to be lighthearted and wacky, like colors it was written by people who didn't know anything about Sonic other than "he's blue he runs fast he fights evil man" the plot was only an excuse to revisit old stages and have classic sonic.
 
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AzafuseYugi

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Sonic is supposed to be Lighthearted and Silly, because he appeals to Kids and Disabled people (not in a bad way either, disabled Kids and Adults LOVE Sonic).

SEGA for some reason wanted to first make Sonic more serious, and then they made him a meme joke (which to me mocks the franchise).

Don't take things too serious with Sonic games, they are designed to be light-hearted and fun.
wrong, Sonic was meant to be cool and edgy compared to Mario, wich unlike Sonic was designed to be lighthearted and fun.
also kids and "disabled" people love the "serious" stuff, idk where your from.
 
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Isleofsancroy

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Sonic stories are terrible and are poorly connected, which is why Sega writers are constantly trying to fill in holes with more holes. It became so out of control that there's now an off-screen plot mechanic of Sonic switching between two different worlds between human games, and games without humans in order to attempt and fail to explain why some games have humans and some don't, or why sometimes the moon is whole or not, which ended up being fixed in both versions of Earth anyway, or is it Mobius?
 

AzafuseYugi

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Sonic stories are terrible and are poorly connected, which is why Sega writers are constantly trying to fill in holes with more holes. It became so out of control that there's now an off-screen plot mechanic of Sonic switching between two different worlds between human games, and games without humans in order to attempt and fail to explain why some games have humans and some don't, or why sometimes the moon is whole or not, which ended up being fixed in both versions of Earth anyway, or is it Mobius?
i'd blame izuka's incompetence on that more than anything, it just so happens that sonic stories started to become crap when people like Naka, Oshima or Maekawa left SEGA, i also think the moon thing is more or so lack of oversight. i also think the people working on later games, probably didn't care enough about continuity, especially minor details like that.
 

Sid Of Bee

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They should just copy the time of the movie.

I thought that was perfect in tone... Light-hearted, not super serious yet not overly silly, endearing, and I actually cared about the characters.
 

LRKD

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I think a something a lot of people seem to be missing is that while Sonic appeals to kids, that doesn't mean that he was necessarily created for kids. I think Sonic was just created as a game that anyone and everyone could enjoy. I really doubt Yuji Naka was thinking of only kids when he designed the game. The thought process that Sonic is for kids, is detrimental to Sonic, and is what caused Sonic writing to be as bad as it is today, imo. I think it should be more like Sonic is for everyone.

Sonic can absolutely be serious while still appealing to everyone, so long as it is well written. Originally, I think the stories were also always somewhat serious with notes of environmentalism, and high stakes of planetary destruction. I think the removal of Sonic's more serious elements was a bad idea, it removes appeal to all of the older audience, leaving only small children, and furry weirdos.

I think the original Ratchet and Clank on ps2 is a good example in some ways. Even though the game has some mildly inappropriate jokes and innuendos children wouldn't get, it still appeals well to both adults and children. I think the biggest reason it appeals to both groups so well is due to the writing, it has a really well done character growth between Ratchet and Clank, and the interactions between them are believable, and meaningful the whole game through. It never talks down to the audience, and even joke characters like Qwark can be treated as serious threats. I don't think Sonic should have the same type of adult comedy as R&C used to have, but it should takes notes from the story and character writing of it. It can absolutely be both serious, and light hearted, there is no reason to not have seriousness in a story. All of Pixar's movies, still have serious elements to them, despite also being light hearted films, not sure why people seem to think Sonic can't do the same thing. Not sure why some people want Sonic stories to be as terrible as Mario's.

In the past 10 years, I don't think any of the 'writers' have even tried to create a story with character growth or interaction, or high stakes. Nothing but shitty flanderization and quips.
 
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AzafuseYugi

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They should just copy the time of the movie.

I thought that was perfect in tone... Light-hearted, not super serious yet not overly silly, endearing, and I actually cared about the characters.
idk, my problem with the movie is how out of character sonic was, he lacked any resemblance of attitude and just felt like an annoying child or a wimp most of the time, yes he's a teen and all that but people are willing to use that as an excuse for farts and fortnite dances when a real life 16 year old would find that cringy than cool and it's mainly 10 year olds doing that, besides, the tone would constantly flip-flop between lighthearted and "serious", and it's always the same problem that was brought up already, the hotel scene is the worst offender because Sonic gets sad yet again that he doesn't have any friends right after a scene where they make a joke about farts and smelly feet, not only that but they already brought it up like 3-4 times already, not even Shadow whined so much about Maria.

if anything i found myself caring much more for the cast in Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic SatAM or the Metarex arc from Sonic X because in SatAM, one of the freedom fighters screws up and everyone could get roboticized, in SA2 one screw up in their plan and earth gets blown up, in Sonic X someone screws up and all life on the universe would die. y'know what i mean. even something lke Sonic Underground had more stakes despite it's dumb cheesy nature.
 
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oagboghi2

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It sounds like you want Sonic to be something it is not. It’s a cartoon for children.(yes, including Satam and the Archie comics. )


Sonic has never been “serious”. All the games you listed have fun, light, but ultimately childish stories for their plot.

people confuse Sonic Adventure having a consistent narrative with stakes as “serious and edgy”. It isn’t
 
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IDKFA

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I think Sonic now needs to grow with its fan base.

It's no secret that the majority of Sonic fans are adults, so the series should now reflect this.

Give me a dark, bleak storyline with adult themes, complete with extreme violence, gore and bad language. However, it's important to also keep the classic gameplay and art style we all know and love.

That's the Sonic game we all really desire, even if we're too scared to admit it.
 

Sid Of Bee

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idk, my problem with the movie is how out of character sonic was, he lacked any resemblance of attitude and just felt like an annoying child or a wimp most of the time, yes he's a teen and all that but people are willing to use that as an excuse for farts and fortnite dances when a real life 16 year old would find that cringy than cool and it's mainly 10 year olds doing that, besides, the tone would constantly flip-flop between lighthearted and "serious", and it's always the same problem that was brought up already, the hotel scene is the worst offender because Sonic gets sad yet again that he doesn't have any friends right after a scene where they make a joke about farts and smelly feet, not only that but they already brought it up like 3-4 times already, not even Shadow whined so much about Maria.

if anything i found myself caring much more for the cast in Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic SatAM or the Metarex arc from Sonic X because in SatAM, one of the freedom fighters screws up and everyone could get roboticized, in SA2 one screw up in their plan and earth gets blown up, in Sonic X someone screws up and all life on the universe would die. y'know what i mean. even something lke Sonic Underground had more stakes despite it's dumb cheesy nature.
I understand what you're saying, but I like that take in the character. The 90s "Tude" vibe just doesn't hold up to me and I loved SA2 except for the story lol. I think in order for Sonic to be more if a success, he should appeal more to his core demographic, kids. I was 12 when the first game came out on Genesis and his style was so right for the time, and in stark contrast to Mario... He was "cooler". Nowadays, I think the version of him in the movie is better suited for today's market and could be a great way to take the franchise forward with what I feel may be a more timeless version. Maybe not, but look at Mario...

Then again, maybe a little less silly but similar tone would be better. Gotta watch the movie again.
 
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No matter how light hearted Sonic may seem on a surface level, I will ALWAYS take him and his franchise seriously. Sonic 3 and Knuckles is the magnum opus video game period. I wouldn't be the gamer I was today if I didn't embrace that game.
 

stickkidsam

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I feel like Sonic's writing should be like a good super hero movie (e.g. Thor: Ragnarok). It's serious enough to have stakes but it's not afraid to have a laugh.

That doesn't mean make it meta though for fucks sake.
 
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AzafuseYugi

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It sounds like you want Sonic to be something it is not. It’s a cartoon for children.(yes, including Satam and the Archie comics. )

Sonic has never been “serious”. All the games you listed have fun, light, but ultimately childish stories for their plot.

people confuse Sonic Adventure having a consistent narrative with stakes as “serious and edgy”. It isn’t
except you know, satam the dark implications of being turned into a midnless drone, being governed by a mad dictator and having a group of literal kids stand up against what's essentially a futuristic hitler, and losing your loved ones, Adventure 2 and Shadow the Hedgehog had mentions of child murder by a corrupt goverment and a bio-weapon trying to get revenge on humanity for it.

oh and i guess the archie comics were even more wild with mentions or implications of drugs, sex and a soap-opera-esque tone on top of the above? even though it wasn't... good at all. sure it's for children but there's a LOT of kids media had a lot of dark themes under a layer of fun, hecne a lot of adults appreciate it.
This is an low key furry thread, innit?
liking sonic or taking it seriously doesn't make you furry
liking anthros or anthro characters doesn't make you automaticly a furry

to be a furry you need a fursona, and i don't have one i just like anthro characters.
if sonic had an all-human cast i bet you'd take the plots more seriously.
 

Meicyn

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except you know, satam the dark implications of being turned into a midnless drone, being governed by a mad dictator and having a group of literal kids stand up against what's essentially a futuristic hitler, and losing your loved ones, Adventure 2 and Shadow the Hedgehog had mentions of child murder by a corrupt goverment and a bio-weapon trying to get revenge on humanity for it.

oh and i guess the archie comics were even more wild with mentions or implications of drugs, sex and a soap-opera-esque tone on top of the above? even though it wasn't... good at all. sure it's for children but there's a LOT of kids media had a lot of dark themes under a layer of fun, hecne a lot of adults appreciate it.

liking sonic or taking it seriously doesn't make you furry
liking anthros or anthro characters doesn't make you automaticly a furry

to be a furry you need a fursona, and i don't have one i just like anthro characters.
if sonic had an all-human cast i bet you'd take the plots more seriously.
 

bender

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When I say "Sonic has always sucked", this thread is why.
 

AzafuseYugi

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When I say "Sonic has always sucked", this thread is why.
Sonic bad because fan defends what he likes. besides it's not even something related to gameplay wich is what tbh, matters the most.
yeah i wonder if me defending Paper Mario TTYD for having overall better story and tone than Sticker Star will grant the same reaction
 
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AzafuseYugi

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Apr 20, 2021
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I think Sonic now needs to grow with its fan base.

It's no secret that the majority of Sonic fans are adults, so the series should now reflect this.

Give me a dark, bleak storyline with adult themes, complete with extreme violence, gore and bad language. However, it's important to also keep the classic gameplay and art style we all know and love.

That's the Sonic game we all really desire, even if we're too scared to admit it.
idk that would be going too far, i think sonic needs a balance between being kid friendly and having adult content.
i think the tone should be akin to the early Paper Marios, like 64, Thousand Year Door and Super. with the more lighthearted entries being like 64 and the darker ones being like Super.
 
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bender

Bending Rodríguez (22, 1,729)
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Sonic bad because fan defends what he likes. besides it's not even something related to gameplay wich is what tbh, matters the most.
yeah i wonder if me defending Paper Mario TTYD for having overall better story and tone than Sticker Star will grant the same reaction

Sonic is bad because of the game play. The chili dog loving fans are the cherry on top.
 

AzafuseYugi

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Sonic is bad because of the game play. The chili dog loving fans are the cherry on top.
let me guess? you suck at it and forget sonic has a roll so you blame either your poor skill and reaction times on a game wich based it's replay value on speedrunning, because it's design philopsohy is more routed on arcade games and hard as balls platformers from the era like Ghost n' Goblins, Castlevania or Megaman classic all of wich have equal if not worse design than even the worst designed Sonic game. and remained dead while Sonic is still a multimedia giant that's comparable if not in some areas bigger than Mario (the last time the plumber had a TV Show or Comics, and illumination still hasn't realeased anything about the Mario Movie while Sonic's is getting a sequel and probably will get a third Movie by the time Mario's come out)

let alone the fact SEGA is in everyway a better company than Nintendo.
 

Saber

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Sonic bad because fan defends what he likes. besides it's not even something related to gameplay wich is what tbh, matters the most.
yeah i wonder if me defending Paper Mario TTYD for having overall better story and tone than Sticker Star will grant the same reaction

Sonic is bad because of the stupid takes Sega used to go with Sonic(guns, story book shit, cyc, Infinte bullcrap, etc) and create a way too diversed fanbase, where every obsucre game is deemed as good by some fan or another. No wonder Sonic fanbase got that bad reputation, that banned guy was a prime example of a twisted fanboy who can't handle that Adventure wasn't a deal and neither a mark in the history of games.