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[Etrian Oddity]

Heard it while listening to All Things Considered on NPR. Searched for a thread here and saw nothing, which surprises me since it happened yesterday.

BBC News via Reuters

Fighting lasted for several hours near the city of Mazar-e Sharif in northern Balkh province.

Insurgents targeted those leaving Friday prayers at the base's mosque and others in a canteen, the army said.

The Taliban said in a statement they had carried out the attack, using suicide bombers to breach defences.

Earlier estimates put the death toll as high as 134, but a statement from the defence ministry on Saturday gave the figure of more than 100 killed or injured.

It is one of the deadliest tolls in a Taliban attack on the Afghan army.

At least 10 Taliban militants were also killed in the fighting and one attacker was detained.

The Taliban fighters who attacked the base wore army uniforms and drove through checkpoints to launch the raid, a military spokesman said.

One injured soldier, Mohammad Hussain, said: "When I came out of the mosque, three people with army uniforms and an army vehicle started shooting at us. Of course, they had some infiltrators inside the base, otherwise they would never have been able to enter.

"One of them sitting inside a vehicle had set up a machine gun at the car's window and shot everyone in his way."

"If strict inspections had taken place, the attackers would not have passed the first gate," said Jan Agah, from Jowzjan province. One of his nephews serving at the base died and another was injured in the attack.

The raid shows the Taliban can plan and carry out complex attacks. The militants said four of the attackers had served as soldiers for a long time and had knowledge of every corner of the base.

Horrible. The NPR host brought up the topic of how the Afghan army is still facing challenges at its organization and stability, even after fifteen years of being hastily propped up of existence.

When I look at photographs of the Middle-East (namely Afghanistan and Iran) from the 1960s, it just breaks my heart to see this apocalyptic regression that took over the region. I know we have Gaffers from these lands, as well as very well-read members on this area's political/military history.

Do you see any real solution to the war-torn and destabilized regions to recover?

 

[SRG01]

The problem is two-fold: the disorganization of the Afghan army, and the continued clandestine support of the Taliban by foreign/neighbouring powers. Problem is... no global power is really willing to wage war against the Taliban as they're not an 'imminent threat'.

 

[Sunster]

Heard it while listening to All Things Considered on NPR. Searched for a thread here and saw nothing, which surprises me since it happened yesterday.

BBC News via Reuters







Horrible. The NPR host brought up the topic of how the Afghan army is still facing challenges at its organization and stability, even after fifteen years of being hastily propped up of existence.

When I look at photographs of the Middle-East (namely Afghanistan and Iran) from the 1960s, it just breaks my heart to see this apocalyptic regression that took over the region. I know we have Gaffers from these lands, as well as very well-read members on this area's political/military history.

Do you see any real solution to the war-torn and destabilized regions to recover?

No. But I know the solutions are out there. Lots of smart people in the world, many on this forum. Hopefully someone ITT has some ideas.

Poor army. It must feel like fighting these groups is like fighting the wind at times like this.

 

[SteveO409]

Nytimes has more detailed about the results...shortage of coffins. Really depressing

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/22/...ghanistan-military-base-soldiers-killed.html?

 

[pa22word]

Afghanistan is essentially Vietnam 2.0, except even more complicated because we're technically allies with destabilizing force we can't invade because reasons. Also said force in this case has nuclear weapons as well.

You wack down a Taliban force in helmand and the next day you've got more forces across the border sprouting up to replace them and the isi is okay with it as long as they also continue to destabilize kashmir too.

Pakistan considers the war to be a side show that the US will get tired of eventually and leave so they're more than okay spinning the US in circles for a decade plus if it means they get more extremists to funnel into India and kashmir for their own purposes.

 

[Lautaro]

The 2nd. Irak war really ruined everything. The US could have used their resources on the Taliban instead of Iraq, now Afghanistan even has ISIS presence.

There's no magic solution or idea, the US needs to keep supporting them. Hopefully when ISIS is destroyed they can refocus their remaining elements in the region.

 

[ClosingADoor]

The problem is two-fold: the disorganization of the Afghan army, and the continued clandestine support of the Taliban by foreign/neighbouring powers. Problem is... no global power is really willing to wage war against the Taliban as they're not an 'imminent threat'.

NATO has waged war against them for 15 years. It's an unwinnable battle in such an environment.

How do you even go about organizing this country. It's huge, the majority living outside of urban centers, so hard to defend against Taliban influence and hostility also.

 

[pa22word]

The 2nd. Irak war really ruined everything. The US could have used their resources on the Taliban instead of Iraq, now Afghanistan even has ISIS presence.

There's no magic solution or idea, the US needs to keep supporting them. Hopefully when ISIS is destroyed they can refocus their remaining elements in the region.

Na, as long as Pakistan plays chicken with both sides the war is essentially unwinnable. You can't effectively enforce the Pakistan Afghanistan border because said border only exists in the mind of the British viceroy who drew the line on a map and called it a day.

 

[Abelard]

The 2nd. Irak war really ruined everything. The US could have used their resources on the Taliban instead of Iraq, now Afghanistan even has ISIS presence.

There's no magic solution or idea, the US needs to keep supporting them. Hopefully when ISIS is destroyed they can refocus their remaining elements in the region.

Yeah. Afghan was the one intervention I actually supported and I thought, for a while at least things were actually better. Still, I will never understand how the Brits split up the middle east and that's been fucking with us ever since.

 

[Sunster]

Yeah. Afghan was the one intervention I actually supported and I thought, for a while at least things were actually better. Still, I will never understand how the Brits split up the middle east and that's been fucking with us ever since.

There's a documentary on Afghanistan on Netflix that explains it pretty well

 

[SRG01]

NATO has waged war against them for 15 years. It's an unwinnable battle in such an environment.

How do you even go about organizing this country. It's huge, the majority living outside of urban centers, so hard to defend against Taliban influence and hostility also.

Yeah, that was one of the issues that the country faced post-Taliban rule. Most of the population lean towards tribal affiliations and not national ones, so forming an effective and organized state will inherently be problematic.

 

[Lautaro]

Na, as long as Pakistan plays chicken with both sides the war is essentially unwinnable.

Its not about "winning" the war, is about making the Afghan government able to stand in its two feet at least.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

There's a documentary on Afghanistan on Netflix that explains it pretty well

Whats it called?

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Can't believe I didn't hear about this until now. Absolutely terrible!

 

[Lautaro]

Yeah. Afghan was the one intervention I actually supported and I thought, for a while at least things were actually better. Still, I will never understand how the Brits split up the middle east and that's been fucking with us ever since.

That's just one variable. What really fucked up the M. East was the Cold War: arming radicals and eliminating moderates just so the superpowers could play chess with the region (afghanistan being a prime example of that). It almost makes me believe in the concept of karma.

 

[ClosingADoor]

That's just one variable. What really fucked up the M. East was the Cold War: arming radicals and eliminating moderates just so the superpowers could play chess with the region (afghanistan being a prime example of that). It almost makes me believe in the concept of karma.

And we still allow one of the most messed up countries in the region to spread its hateful views and influence because they are apparently an ally.

 

[Sunster]

Whats it called?

oh yea sorry. Afghanistan: The Great Game

 

[pa22word]

Its not about "winning" the war, is about making the Afghan government able to stand in its two feet at least.

The country has no real economy to speak of other than the drug trade, and the US has spent well over marshal plan money trying to make it one.

It is inherently about winning the war because without winning the war you can't have the stability required to build a modern economy, and without a modern economy you can't build a modern state.

 

[koji kabuto]

Russia Backs Afghan Taliban Demand to Withdraw Foreign Troops

”Of course it's justified" for the Taliban to oppose the foreign military presence, President Vladimir Putin's special envoy for Afghanistan, Zamir Kabulov, said in an interview in Moscow. ”Who's in favor? Name me one neighboring state that supports it."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...han-taliban-demand-to-withdraw-foreign-troops

Iran Backs Taliban With Cash and Arms
KABUL—When Abdullah, a Taliban commander in central Afghanistan, needs more rifles and ammunition, he turns to the same people who pay his $580-a-month salary: his Iranian sponsors.

”Iran supplies us with whatever we need," he said.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/iran-backs-taliban-with-cash-and-arms-1434065528

It will never stop as long as Russia/Iran wants them to keep on going

 

[Frozenprince]

Na, as long as Pakistan plays chicken with both sides the war is essentially unwinnable. You can't effectively enforce the Pakistan Afghanistan border because said border only exists in the mind of the British viceroy who drew the line on a map and called it a day.

Yep, Waziristan will constantly funnel new radicalized soldiers from the mountains and theres not a lot to be done for it. Southern Afghanistan is unwinnable. The only solution is basically to split off a new state and try and keep Kabul and the north stable. Build a tech industry in the metro area and hope you can decrease reliance on the golden trade.

 

[CrunchyB]

oh yea sorry. Afghanistan: The Great Game

Not available in the Netherlands, bummer.

 

[ClosingADoor]

It will never stop as long as Russia/Iran wants them to keep on going

It's amazing the US has learned nothing from history. They put themselves in the same situation the Russians were in, in the same country, with the same forces. Just now, Russia is the one arming the terrorists.

 

[pa22word]

It's amazing the US has learned nothing from history. They put themselves in the same situation the Russians were in, in the same country, with the same forces. Just now, Russia is the one arming the terrorists.

I don't think history had a lot to do with it. After 9/11 I don't think there exists a political force powerful enough to keep the US from going to war. The American people wanted blood at any cost, and blood they got. Democrat or Republican was in office I don't see the US not getting into this war, and regardless of who was waging it I don't see the war as it stands today being any different. Even a telepath who can read the future exactly as it happened doesn't prevent the US from starting this war. Collective insanity is about the best way I can describe the state of us public opinion after 9/11 to someone who wasn't there.

 

[MikeMyers]

oh yea sorry. Afghanistan: The Great Game

Will check it out.

From what I understand, the British annexed land from Afghanistan (Durand Line) which later became Pakistan after he partition, hence why Pahstuns are native to both lands? And the Afghanistan government doesn't accept this border?

 

[Rien]

Not available in the Netherlands, bummer.

Shit. Was planning to watch it... Ow well

 

[Xando]

Anyone got some info if the base was called camp marmal?

I was stationed in Mazar-e Sharif back in 2010 and it was relatively quiet(compared to the south atleast).

 

[Sunster]

Not available in the Netherlands, bummer.

Shit. Was planning to watch it... Ow well

Ep 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMpVRxpVll4

Ep 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI4ArrFX7iU&spfreload=10

 

[cameron]

Anyone got some info if the base was called camp marmal?

I was stationed in Mazar-e Sharif back in 2010 and it was relatively quiet(compared to the south atleast).

Camp Shaheen. Base is HQ for the 209th Corps.

 

[TheContact]

Fuck that's depressing. Taliban, al qaeda, Isis, boko haram...what all fucking pieces of trash.

 

[Rien]

Ep 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMpVRxpVll4

Ep 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI4ArrFX7iU&spfreload=10

Thanx!!!

 

[Frozenprince]

It's amazing the US has learned nothing from history. They put themselves in the same situation the Russians were in, in the same country, with the same forces. Just now, Russia is the one arming the terrorists.

Well no it's mostly Pakistan arming them.

 

[AlimNassor]

That's just one variable. What really fucked up the M. East was the Cold War: arming radicals and eliminating moderates just so the superpowers could play chess with the region (afghanistan being a prime example of that). It almost makes me believe in the concept of karma.

Ahem, try earlier. The west has been warring in the MEast for centuries. Even during the Roman Era the west was dividing up the region.

 

[UFO]

Holy shit, I thought you were talking about the US Army.

 

[The Hamburglar]

Heard it while listening to All Things Considered on NPR. Searched for a thread here and saw nothing, which surprises me since it happened yesterday.

BBC News via Reuters







Horrible. The NPR host brought up the topic of how the Afghan army is still facing challenges at its organization and stability, even after fifteen years of being hastily propped up of existence.

When I look at photographs of the Middle-East (namely Afghanistan and Iran) from the 1960s, it just breaks my heart to see this apocalyptic regression that took over the region. I know we have Gaffers from these lands, as well as very well-read members on this area's political/military history.

Do you see any real solution to the war-torn and destabilized regions to recover?

To also answer your question as to why these countries have regressed, is the spread of Saudis extreme version of Islam. Throughout the world since the end of ww2.

 

[Bastables]

To also answer your question as to why these countries have regressed, is the spread of Saudis extreme version of Islam. Throughout the world since the end of ww2.

Yeah maybe the loss of Ottoman control resulted in a lack of Religious and political pushback against Wahabists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman–Wahhabi_War

At the end of 1818 the Ottoman/Egyptian resoundly crushed the Saud's and executed the religious leadership. Note Saud's were the ones that called for a Arab revolt during WW1 with British imperial help.

But really the current power and influence the Saud's have is really down to the special relationship with the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia–United_States_relations

 

[Charles Brandon]

I wrote my dissertation on Afghanistan and the causes of the shite state of affairs (in 2001a)

Conclusion - Britain used it as buffer to Russia and it became weak and poor as a result, US continued this practice after ww2, Afghanistan eventually got overran by drug dealing warlords (The Mujaheddin) tooled up with american weapons, they were cunts so the people happy for the taliban to take over, which is why it is like it is.

 

[TheRealTalker]

well aren't they getting new funds from Iran and Russia
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-bl...-aides-the-afghan-taliban-under-americas-nose
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/03/general-russia-supplying-taliban-fighters-170323161613169.html
seems that this war isn't going to conclude any time soon... rather a new surge of proxy funding and support is going to push it for the next decade

the real losers unfortunately though is the afghans that have to suffer via this global power struggle BS

 

[devilhawk]

Could there be any benefit or real solution with partitioning the country?

 

[Bastables]

Could there be any benefit or real solution with partitioning the country?

It's worked for India, Vietnam, Korea and Sudan right...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sudanese_Civil_War
Oh

 

[Sunster]

It's worked for India, Vietnam, Korea and Sudan right...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sudanese_Civil_War
Oh

South Korea is doing great though

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Geezuz. What a fucking nightmare..RIP to those fellas.

 

[TheRealTalker]

Could there be any benefit or real solution with partitioning the country?

looking at this countries demographics it feels more homogeneous then anything else compared to other countries that went through partitions...

this is just a shadow of the cold war that never actually ended that we are seeing here

and the ever changing side picking by foreign countries just again refuels it

the Taliban are a militia, they change sides via who funds them and if they get a large slice of pie from it

in this case it is now the Russians and Iranians... before during the cold war it was the US and the Saudis

the Afghan goverment itself is rife with corruption since again they too act like greedy individuals that are in it for themselves

what is sad here is that while relying on this corrupt elderly the future generations get a lack of educational studies which ingrains the long term instability for the said country


of course there is even more to it then that like the rife gun trade and tribalism but at the core it seems that this situation doesn't have a end in a foreseeable sight


----

In my opinion I believe that other Stan countries (not Iran) should get involved in this as a peacekeeping force since they would share a common cultural understanding but that is impossible as well since a majority of those countries are allied with Russia which literally wants influence in that region... Plus I believe those goverment literally wouldn't either care for Afghanistan or wouldn't want Afghanistan to become a powerful independent nation.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Iran's version of Islam is not better than Saudi Arabia's...

Iran just loses a lot of proxy wars to Saudi Arabia so Saudi Arabia's extremism is more influential.

But that's because of Iran losing wars instead of anything else.

Hezbollah is on the verge of committing massive scale genocide and they're the main Iranian terror group.

 

[TheRealTalker]

Iran's version of Islam is not better than Saudi Arabia's...

Iran just loses a lot of proxy wars to Saudi Arabia so Saudi Arabia's extremism is more influential.

But that's because of Iran losing wars instead of anything else.

Hezbollah is on the verge of committing massive scale genocide and they're the main Iranian terror group.

on the verge?

they are literally doing it right now in Syria in order to somehow "liberate" Palestine

since apparently the road to Jerusalem is literally through Damascus /s

but then again when you are getting bankrolled by the Iranian Revolutionary Council then of course what you do doesn't make any logical sense


----

On Afghanistan though even Pakistan apparently was cut having bad intentions for the nation

basically everyone that is neighboring the poor country doesn't want it to be stable

 

[Bastables]

South Korea is doing great though

Besides the war, and the military dictatorship by ex Imperial Japanese army officer. And the whole capital being close enough to the DMZ to be wiped by NK artillery. Yeah partitions and the subsequent wars are great results.

 

[TheRealTalker]

this is a photo of the Taliban members that stormed the base

https://twitter.com/worldonalert/status/856155963010797569

they are no longer wearing their nomad clothing style but are literally equipped with what looks like old Russian equipment

they are basically a paid and armed militia now... they look more like an army then the afghan army

some WTF scenarios are happening thanks likely to Moscow

 

[cameron]

Death toll may be up to 140. Various outlets are reporting the Taliban's response that the attack was due to the deaths of two Taliban shadow governors by Afgan and US forces from a few days earlier:

AP: "Taliban governor among 14 killed in Afghanistan clashes"

Amir Gul Hussainkhil, the deputy provincial police chief, said Afghan security forces launched a large-scale attack on the insurgents the night before in the western part of the province, setting off five hours of intense fighting and killing Taliban shadow governor Mawlavi Lal Mohammad.

Hussainkhil said the dead also included a number of expert bomb makers. He says no government forces were killed.

The Taliban confirmed that the shadow governor was killed and said four other fighters died in the clashes.

The Guardian: "US forces say Taliban 'target of interest' since 2011 killed in Afghanistan"

The Pentagon said on Saturday Quari Tayib, a Taliban “shadow governor” in Afghanistan who evaded coalition forces for six years, has been killed.

In a statement, US forces in Afghanistan said Tayib was killed in a 17 April air strike in the Archi district of Kunduz province.

“The strike was part of ongoing efforts to deny Taliban freedom of movement in the area,” the forces said, adding that the attack “targeted a compound Tayib owned and used for insurgents in the area”.

Tayib, the military said, “had been a target of interest since 2011 and was directly responsible for deaths of US service members in Afghanistan”.

this is a photo of the Taliban members that stormed the base

they are no longer wearing their nomad clothing style but are literally equipped with what looks like old Russian equipment

they are basically a paid and armed militia now... they look more like an army then the afghan army

some WTF scenarios are happening thanks likely to Moscow

This isn't a new norm. They will wear whatever that will give them the advantage. From civilian clothes to stolen army gear. In this instance, the military uniforms were purely strategic; it allowed them to coast through residential areas and the first checkpoint without much scrutiny. Their uniforms also adds to confusion during the initial firefight.

Reuters: "Confusion, chaos after Taliban breach Afghan base in deadly attack"

The incident raised immediate questions over how such a mass killing could occur in a heavily defended headquarters frequented by foreign soldiers.

In the early afternoon on Friday, two army vehicles bearing men in Afghan army uniforms rolled up to the base's gate, claiming to have wounded soldiers in need of urgent medical care.

Two guards at the first checkpoint waved them through, according to Ahmad Saboor, a soldier who was on guard duty further inside the base that day.

At the second checkpoint, the guards told the men in the trucks they had to leave their weapons behind, as is standard procedure at the bases, Saboor said.

After a brief argument, the attackers shot and killed the two guards and sped toward the third and final checkpoint, which they hit with a rocket-propelled grenade before racing into the base itself.

"The first vehicle had a light machine gun mounted on it and started firing at dozens of soldiers and officers coming out of the mosque," Saboor recalled. "The second vehicle went towards the dining hall and started shooting."

Wielding machine guns and rocket-propelled grenade launchers, the attackers sprayed heavy fire into groups of soldiers gathered to eat at a dining hall and leaving afternoon prayers at the mosque. Several other attackers detonated suicide vests packed with explosives.