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Talking to the Man Behind ‘Loss,’ the Internet’s Longest-Running Miscarriage ‘Joke’

HUELEN10

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http://nymag.com/following/2015/11/longest-running-miscarriage-meme-on-the-web.html

Saw this on Digg and it's an interesting read. Don't be fooled, this is gaming side stuff. Have an excerpt.

In 2008, web-comic artist Tim Buckley sat down to write a dramatic four-panel strip for his long-running comic "Ctrl+Alt+Del." What he ended up creating was loss.jpg, the web’s best-known and longest-running meme about a miscarriage.

“I'm not sure what I anticipated, to be honest. I knew it was going to cause some ripples, and it was going to be a busy email day, but honestly by the time that specific comic went live, it was a decision that I had been living with for over a year,” Buckley told me when when I asked him about it this week.

"Loss" is a 4-panel comic strip, completely without dialogue. In the first panel, series protagonist Ethan bursts through the doors of an emergency room. In the second, he worriedly talks to a receptionist, who points him in a certain direction. The third panel shows Ethan conversing with a doctor who is clearly conveying bad news. In the fourth, Ethan stands over his crying fiancée, Lilah, who lies on her side in a hospital bed.

To understand where loss.jpg comes from, you need to understand "Ctrl+Alt+Del" (henceforth referred to as "CAD"). Gaming web comics hit their stride in the mid-2000s with "Penny Arcade," a strip that centers on two misanthropic hard-core gamers. It was followed, unsurprisingly, by other web comics about misanthropic hard-core gamers, including "CAD." It was a perfect marriage of content and distribution: easily shareable comic strips for gamers, distributed on a medium where they were early adopters. The subgenre was so pervasive that blogs like Joystiq and Kotaku began running weekly roundups.

While "CAD" has a large fan base, it has a lot of vocal detractors as well. Critics of "CAD" like to point out the laziness of Tim Buckley’s art style. His characters are rarely expressive, their eyelids all droop and their jaws are all slack. Analysis on the Bad Webcomics Wiki points out that many character expressions are composed of pre-drawn assets, the way you might construct a Bitmoji.
Read the whole thing if you have the time. They interview Tim Buckley and it is a fascinating read. It is surprisingly well written and respectful, despite title of the article.
 

Two Words

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May 8, 2014
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I always thought that people laugh at it because of how cheaply he was trying to inject some seriousness into the cartoon series.
 

bigboss370

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Oct 31, 2009
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By taking a turn into the gravely serious world of reproductive trauma with “Loss,” Buckley blindsided readers. It was like Carrot Top remade Sophie’s Choice. The last strip to mention Lilah’s pregnancy prior to “Loss” had been published 10 installments and nearly a month prior, and readers found the sudden attempt at gravity hilarious. So they did what the internet does: turned “Loss” — again, a comic strip about miscarriage — into a running joke. One that still continues to this day.


yeah, i never understood this and why it was funny. and it was so widespread too.


I always thought that people laugh at it because of how cheaply he was trying to inject some seriousness into the cartoon series.


but thats still not funny :/
 

Coffee Dog

Banned
Aug 23, 2012
14,435
1
0
Nobody's laughing at miscarriage. They're laughing at Buckley's complete lack of taste or tact.

The series of images is inherently ridiculous.
 

Zukuu

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
10,843
2
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I don't get the comic. Can someone explain what is supposed to be funny OR controversial?
 

Coffee Dog

Banned
Aug 23, 2012
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Tim Buckley said:
"A miscarriage is definitely not a joke, and I have no intention of making light of it. And it can be a tough and emotional thing for couples to go through, speaking from personal experience. And I know that it's often much harder on the woman than on the man. However, I also know that it doesn't necessarily turn you into a sad, depressed sack of tears for the rest of your life. People can move past it, and heal."

please don't feel bad for buckley
 

BiggNife

Member
Aug 15, 2007
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Nobody's laughing at miscarriage. They're laughing at Buckley's complete lack of taste or tact.

The series of images is inherently ridiculous.

Yes, this. It's always been this and it's incredibly disingenuous to say "look at these monsters making fun of miscarriage."
 

HUELEN10

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And for those seriously not in the know, no one in their right minds finds the actually concept of a miscarriage to be a thing to laugh at.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 11, 2010
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Wow, Buckley comes off even worse in this interview. I didn't know that was possible.
 

Doctor Ironic

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And for those seriously not in the know, no one in their right minds finds the actually concept of a miscarriage to be a thing to laugh at.
Yeah, people don't find the miscarriage hilarious, or even the shift in tone, what's laughable is that Buckley is just an amazingly shitty writer. Given that something like three strips later Lilah had already gotten over it, it was pretty obvious that B^Uckley had written the miscarriage in not as a way to explore a legitimate tragedy but more as a way to get out of having to write Ethan as a father, because that would mean the character would actually have to grow and change.
 

SoulUnison

Banned
Dec 4, 2011
9,066
595
840
Pacific Northwest, United States
We live in a world where words are thrown around independantly of their definitions.
People call things "ironic" when they mean funny.
People say "literally" when they mean anything but.
People call things "pretentious" when they don't want to have to admit they didn't get it right away (or at all.)

Tim Buckley is someone...something, I feel no shame in calling "pretentious."

He just...really thinks he's something special.
 

WGMBY

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May 20, 2014
704
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Boston, MA, USA
Yeah, people don't find the miscarriage hilarious, or even the shift in tone, what's laughable is that Buckley is just an amazingly shitty writer. Given that something like three strips later Lilah had already gotten over it, it was pretty obvious that B^Uckley had written the miscarriage in not as a way to explore a legitimate tragedy but more as a way to get out of having to write Ethan as a father, because that would mean the character would actually have to grow and change.
Plus, y'know, clicks. Nothing drives people to a site like controversy.
 

L Thammy

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Nov 4, 2012
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There's not really any outrage here. It's basically... you know what, I'm going to be a little bit lazy here and just link this, which pretty much covers it: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Narm

Though also the author always somehow comes off as self-important and self-righteous, which fed this a lot (see the variant that quotes from a post he wrote about the whole thing).

Might as well quote that post since I have the tab open:

Ok, so I'll bet some people just said "That's it, I'm not reading this comic anymore!", and that's fine, I respect that decision. Thank you for reading.

For the rest of you, I'm sure you're curious about my motivations for this particular turn of events. I know some of you remember (because you've been emailing me about it) a few months ago I said I was going to talk about the pregnancy storyline, and then I never did. I never did because I knew that when we got to this point in the story I was going to have to talk about it, and since I'd be saying pretty much the same thing in both instances, I chose to just wait until now.

One of the common themes I heard was "Why are there comics about pregnancy? This is supposed to be a gaming comic!"

I know that everybody has their own idea of what Ctrl+Alt+Del is "supposed" to be. Some people feel it's a video game comic and the character stories are just filler, or don't belong, and some people think it's a story comic and the one-shots are just filler. Most times it's categorized as a "gaming comic", which is fine and understandable. When asked directly though, I describe Ctrl+Alt+Del as a "gamer comic" or "a comic about gamers". Semantics, perhaps, but an important distinction for me. While the strip has always and will always have its foundation firmly rooted in gaming, it's not the only topic I want to tell jokes and stories about.

Telling different stories, switching back and forth between storylines and one-shots, and not restricting myself to one genre/categorization is what keeps me interested in creating the comic. I can spend a few weeks telling a story, and then when it ends, rather then having to launch into another story arc, I can do a bunch of one-shots about, well, whatever I feel like. What's in the news, what new games I'm playing, silly stuff, movies, anything. Then I get recharged and start itching to tell another story, and so it goes, back and forth. None of it is "filler", it's all as much a part of what makes up Ctrl+Alt+Del as anything else.

Same thing with the non-game-related story arcs. The characters in the strip are gamers, and so they have a passion for video games, and a lot of what they do and talk about focuses around games. But being a gamer is not the only thing that makes up a person's life, and there are a lot of experiences people go through whether they're a gamer or not. That's why I don't love the "gaming comic" categorization, because it gives the impression that video games are the only topic that belongs. I can't argue with the categorization, because there is clearly a very heavy video game theme in the comic, but I also don't have to restrict myself to the categorization either, if that makes sense.

On the other hand, I'm sure the people who were complaining "Waiter, there's some plot in my gaming comic!" already left at the beginning of the newspost.

Another one I heard a few months ago was "If they have a baby then the comic strip will become all about parenting and not gaming/It will be BabyFest 24/7Ethan will get totally serious and grown up!"

If a baby was introduced to the strip, Ctrl+Alt+Del would not suddenly convert into a parenting comic strip, with changing diapers every other strip, etc. This is a comic, and I don't need to show every mundane detail of these characters' lives. They are rarely seen eating, and I've never shown them going to the bathroom. Do you think that they just never shit? Of course not. It's just naturally assumed that some everyday stuff goes on around whatever is shown in the comic. Same thing with a baby (Yes, I'm comparing parenting to shitting. Can you tell I'm not a Dad?). There would of course be some baby-centric storylines now and then, but nothing says it has to take over the whole strip.

Becoming a parent changes people, without a doubt. But it doesn't necessarily change people into responsible, uptight working stiffs with no sense of humor. Especially in comicstripland. If Ethan became a father, there would be some changes, some forced growth. But he'd still be Ethan.

Here's one I think I heard mentioned a while back, and that I anticipate being mentioned: "Tim will never do a miscarriage because then the comic strip will become all sad and depressing".

Again, I disagree. A miscarriage is definitely not a joke, and I have no intention of making light of it. And it can be a tough and emotional thing for couples to go through, speaking from personal experience. And I know that it's often much harder on the woman than on the man. However, I also know that it doesn't necessarily turn you into a sad, depressed sack of tears for the rest of your life. People can move past it, and heal.

This falls in with what I was just saying above. Yes, a miscarriage is a very sad occurance. But nothing dictates that I now need to follow Ethan and Lilah through every second of their sad emotions, putting us right in the middle of it where, yes, it would be a bit depressing. There are a number of supporting characters in the strip through which I can tell the story, or I could break away completely with some one-shots and come back to join the characters post-ground-zero, when the pain isn't so fresh, to show how they handle it.

Now I'm sure some of you are wondering what my motivations were for this particular story path.

As I've said in the past, the grand plan for the comic and its characters has been written for years. I knew that (and how) Ethan was going to propose to Lilah when I introduced her into the comic. I knew when he proposed that shortly before the wedding Lilah was going to get pregnant and then miscarry, and I had to wait two years to write it. I know what happens next, and I know how they handle it. I know what happens even further down the line. I know what Scott is doing in his room. I know who moves out and when. I know who dies and who doesn't die. And I know that, through all of it, Ethan is still Ethan, Lilah is still Lilah, and Lucas is still Lucas, and they are all still gamers.

And more importantly, I know that I have a storyline that can keep the comic going for a long, long time, and most importantly, keep me anxious to write the next part for you. Because for me, there needs to be more there than just playing games. The characters and their lives need to be interesting enough that I want to keep writing about them while they play the games.

So in part, this just serves to set up the next part of the story. On a base level, it's just a good twist. Conflict makes for interesting story.

On a deeper level, I really have a desire to stress test Ethan and Lilah's relationship, to see if there is really something there that would keep them together despite Ethan's antics, and I decided that this was the best way to go about it. I know from personal experience what it can do to a relationship. Some many years ago, long before I started the comic, I was in a relationship and we suffered a miscarriage. Now, this relationship was toxic to begin with and doomed to fail regardless, so that the miscarriage was the straw that broke the camel's back came as no surprise. It was a pregnancy neither of us wanted in the first place, so the event didn't effect me nearly as much as it would, say, a couple who was trying for a child. Still, I saw the emotions it can bring up first hand, and I saw how it could truly hurt someone. It's a tough thing to handle because it's nobody's fault. There's nobody you can blame.

It can cause a rift in a relationship without someone having to be the "bad guy", as in infidelity or lying. And I wanted to see if and how Ethan and Lilah's relationship could weather it.

And also... I wanted to see if I could write it. If I could pull it off. Call it creative curiosity, I guess.


So, that's all I really have to say on the subject. Read on, or don't, that's your call.

I think I bolded the parts that are usually quoted?
 

Doctor Ironic

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"Nothing dictates that I now need to follow Ethan and Lilah through every second of their sad emotions, putting us right in the middle of it where, yes, it would be a bit depressing.”

Yeah. Nothing except, I mean. Good writing.

Plus, y'know, clicks. Nothing drives people to a site like controversy.
What a boring outlook on the world.
 

GrantDaNasty

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Feb 19, 2013
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For anyone who doesn't get why it became a topic of ridicule.

CAD was/is a webcomic about video games, and one particular guy and his friends who get into hijinx along the way.

Out of nowhere (aside from acknowledging there was a pregnant character) we get a comic that tries to be somber and leave you feeling sad.

This is the equivalent of Mickey Mouse talking to you about rape for 5 minutes, then pretending the whole thing never happened, or an episode of Seinfeld dedicated to announcing that George has terminal cancer...which is never again mentioned afterwards.

No one is laughing at miscarriage, they laugh because much like Tommy Wiseau's "The Room", Buckley went into this strip 100% sincere, and honestly, his reaction to the fanbase losing it over this strip highlighted his selfish, egotistical, self-importance which was ultimately the bigger calamity out of this whole thing.
 

Bobby Roberts

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Feb 13, 2012
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geekremixed.com
By taking a turn into the gravely serious world of reproductive trauma with “Loss,” Buckley blindsided readers. It was like Carrot Top remade Sophie’s Choice. The last strip to mention Lilah’s pregnancy prior to “Loss” had been published 10 installments and nearly a month prior, and readers found the sudden attempt at gravity hilarious. So they did what the internet does: turned “Loss” — again, a comic strip about miscarriage — into a running joke.

then

Why “Loss” has stuck around all these years is not entirely clear. Even the greatest scholars of memes struggle to understand why one particular image or idea circulates and another doesn’t. "Loss" is particularly interesting because it’s difficult to imagine a meme about miscarriage, created from gamer-centric media, becoming popular in 2015. Buckley thinks the meme has taken on a life of its own, divorced from its original context: “Most likely they're just doing it to have fun, and I certainly wouldn't suggest that it should stop if they still find amusement in it.”

This is weird, because in the former paragraph, the writer seems to understand exactly why it's stuck around all these years, but in the latter, the writer's completely confused as to why "Carrot Top making Sophie's Choice" would have gained traction.

People still write about Jerry Lewis' "The Day the Clown Cried" and nobody's even SEEN that shit.
 

xevis

Banned
Jul 23, 2014
1,813
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I'm not familiar with the context in which the comic appeared but I find it no funnier than PA's dickwolves strip. Which is to say, not at all.
 

LouisaFerre

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Sep 25, 2013
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Loss is a magical meme. It's like it resulted in a tiny little minimalist art movement where people just try to arrange straight lines in a specific way, like they're trying to think of how much they can simplify or strip down the visual language while still expressing the same thing. The amount of creativity that people put into Loss edits is fucking astonishing.
 

L Thammy

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Nov 4, 2012
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I'm not familiar with the context in which the comic appeared but I find it no funnier than PA's dickwolves strip. Which is to say, not at all.

It wasn't meant to be funny. It was meant to be a sudden injection of drama into a Family Guy style video game comedy.
 

xevis

Banned
Jul 23, 2014
1,813
0
0
It wasn't meant to be funny. It was meant to be a sudden injection of drama into a Family Guy style video game comedy.

I get that. What I don't get is the train of thought that leads one to turn the comic into a parody. There's nothing funny about miscarriage.