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Tatsunoko vs Capcom, new arcade fighter. (Viewtiful Joe in 'da house!)

TreIII

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May 15, 2006
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haunts said:
Ahh shit, Batsu.. Awesome! im sold..

also, is this going to play like rival schools or like MVC2? any word on that?

It's definitely going to be more along the lines of MAHVEL than anything else. But from the looks of what early reports talked about, the different assists that you can do seem to have a bit of Rival Schools-flavor mixed with MSHvSF.

And if that's the case, consider me sold.

raYne said:
Nope.

I think early reports said it was arcade only. Though things may change.. hopefully.

No, it's announced for Arcades first, because obviously, that's where it's likely going to be marketed initially (unless they do a simultaneous console port like they did for MvC2, but I doubt that).

But, give it time. Signs are heavily pointing to the notion that this game is a System 246/256 release, which basically does more to give credence to the idea that PS2 (and Wii) is in this game's future. But again, though, unless Capcom stands to surprise me and everyone with a simultaneous arcade/console release, we probably won't see this game come home until Q1 09 at the earliest any way...
 

TreIII

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ezekial45 said:
Does anyone have a clear explanation why the Rival Schools series never continued after PJ?

Well, there's actually a good number of possible factors that led to the series being left to stagnate. But here's the most probable of the two:

1) Capcom's continuing collapse of its FG development - As the years went by, Capcom's once prominent FG development teams eventually either jumped ship to other teams within the company, or left the company entirely. ARIKA and Craft & Meister are good examples of former Capcom FG staff leaving the company to do their own thing. With them gone, Capcom had to continually shrink back development, until it basically was a thing that Capcom Fighting Jam was done by 1 person.

2) Project Justice's "failure" - The competitive scene for this game, and thus the series itself, went to pot after PJ turned out to be quite broken fundamentally (re: THROWS out-prioritize EVERYTHING!). It's unfortunate, but after the bad spell PJ left, Capcom was overly reluctant to return to the series, especially once the things about #1 came into play.


Like Vampire/Darkstalkers, Justice Gakuen/Rival Schools was a franchise that was the victim of circumstance in a lot of ways. But hey, who knows? Maybe Batsu's inclusion in TatsuCap proves that Capcom at least still cares about the franchise, and possibly fishing to see if there's enough interest for a possible follow-up of some sort...

Though ANY sequel probably won't be as awesome without Hyo...(RIP Kaneto Shiozawa....)
 

vala

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TreIII said:
1) Capcom's continuing collapse of its FG development - As the years went by, Capcom's once prominent FG development teams eventually either jumped ship to other teams within the company, or left the company entirely. ARIKA and Craft & Meister are good examples of former Capcom FG staff leaving the company to do their own thing. With them gone, Capcom had to continually shrink back development, until it basically was a thing that Capcom Fighting Jam was done by 1 person.

Stop posting this BS. Please!?
You have no idea what you are talking about!
 

TreIII

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vala said:
Stop posting this BS. Please!?
You have no idea what you are talking about!

No, I think you may be the one who doesn't quite understand...

The truth? Capcom literally HAS no FG development team left, the last bit of it dried up after CFJ. And people leaving the company is indeed true. Or how else would the likes of Akira Nishitani (the co-creator of Street Fighter) end up founding ARIKA, and Noritaka Funamizu (another person involved with SF2) found his own company at Craft & Meister?

Furthermore...how would you explain the last few FGs that Capcom has been "responsible" for (beyond ports)?

Sengoku BASARA X? Arc System Works. Fate: Unlimited Codes? 8ing & Cavia. Street Fighter 4? DIMPS.

It's any one's guess who may be developing this particular title, but most pundits point to the likes of Craft & Meister being a possible candidate (due to the team being made up of a number of people who made the Marvel fighters at their time with Capcom).

So, face facts. The only reason Capcom is even in the FG scene any more, is through the help of 3rd parties being paid to do their work for them. Like with a number of other things about Capcom now-a-days, their FG wares are out-sourced.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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Troidal said:
I know it will never happen because Tatsunoko pretends it never existed, but Gawl from Generator Gawl would be perfect for this game.

that looks like that one legendary Pokemon. but with teeth.
 

vala

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TreIII said:
No, I think you may be the one who doesn't quite understand...
:lol

The truth? Capcom literally HAS no FG development team left, the last bit of it dried up after CFJ. And people leaving the company is indeed true. Or how else would the likes of Akira Nishitani (the co-creator of Street Fighter) end up founding ARIKA

Arika was founded in 1995!. Capcom made dozens of fighting games after that!

, and Noritaka Funamizu (another person involved with SF2) found his own company at Craft & Meister?

He left Capcom with 2 producers (Yoshihiro Sudo and Kenji Itsuno) + 2 programmers ("Hard.Yas" and Hiroaki Matsumoto)

Furthermore...how would you explain the last few FGs that Capcom has been "responsible" for (beyond ports)?

Sengoku BASARA X? Arc System Works. Fate: Unlimited Codes? 8ing & Cavia. Street Fighter 4? DIMPS.

Capcom stopped making fighting games after CvS2, and you know why?

MONEY! ...

Fighting games were not making enogh money. That's why the FG development team (aka Capcom Studio 1) started working on other games like: Automodellista, DMC series, Resident Evil Outbreak , Gundam Vs series, Monster "lots of money" Hunter series, Zelda , Gotcha Force, etc

Do you think that it would be a good idea for Capcom to put the Dmc team or MH team to work on SF 4???

Wasn't vala the one who actually used, you know, credits?
Yeah :lol I have a folder with about 300 capcom credits .
 

VeritasVierge

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Why do they keep using the 1970s design of Tekkaman? The 90s rendition would better fit this game. He didn't look so out of place in Tatsunoko Fight but sure does in these pictures.
 

eso76

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Jun 25, 2004
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Tekkaman is the most badass character ever.
EVER.

I believe Yoshitaka Amano designed him
 

TreIII

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vala said:
Arika was founded in 1995!. Capcom made dozens of fighting games after that!

True! But again, Capcom's FG development was on a serious decline after a while. Various teams who used to be responsible for Capcom's numerous games eventually moved on to other teams within the company, or just left the company out-right.

For instance, Team Red Beret (makers of the Alpha/Zero series, as well as Vampire/Darkstalkers) effectively disbanded around the turn of the millennium (after Zero 3, basically). The team behind the SF3 series soon followed suit.

By the dawn of the new millennium, there was really only one FG development team (went up the heading of Studio 1, but the reality was the actual FG team was quite small in comparison to the rest of the Studio), and it was clear enough that things weren't what they used to be. The most profitable game that this new team was responsible for (MvC2) was a game that even Capcom basically admitted in the "All About Capcom" anthology book, was a product that was developed on a short dev cycle, had little testing, but sold so well that Capcom didn't care.

Capcom stopped making fighting games after Capcom Fighting Jam, and you know why?

Fixed. But any way...

Fighting games were not making enough money.



Of COURSE money was the main thing that basically killed Capcom's FG division. Well, that, and Capcom's rather shoddy treatment of its own personnel, which is what caused the likes of ARIKA and Craft & Meister to be created in the first place.

If you're familiar with ShoK, the doujin dev behind the "Darkstalkers-like" PC fighting game, "MONSTER"? He was a part of Capcom's Red Beret division. So, being one who was a part of all this, he knows the kind of stuff that went on with the company, or at least, how the FG development went.

He never went into deep detail about the kinds of things that went on back then, but even in his younger days, he could see that the writing was on the wall, when it came to how Capcom was down-sizing their FG development, and not treating the personnel all that well either.

Do you think that it would be a good idea for Capcom to put the Dmc team or MH team to work on SF 4???

Who knows? If they still had the people available to make such a thing happen (and they do, a number of the people who work on the likes of DMC and Sengoku BASARA worked on previous Street Fighter games), they may have been able to make it work.

At the least, even if such a thing turned out to be a failure, it couldn't stand to be any worse for Capcom than how such things like Chaos Legion, Gotcha Force, Devil May Cry 2, Dino Crisis 3 and various other titles of varying budgets have negatively impacted Capcom...
 

KingJ2002

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i hope this game gets a wii release... it would be a shame if it didnt considering that sf4 isnt coming to wii... the wii needs games like this

... speaking of sf4.

looking back on everything... im glad it took this long for sf4 to come out... if it released any sooner... the street fighter series would be dead in the water.
 

vala

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TreIII said:
For instance, Team Red Beret (makers of the Alpha/Zero series, as well as Vampire/Darkstalkers) effectively disbanded around the turn of the millennium (after Zero 3, basically). The team behind the SF3 series soon followed suit.

Not true at all ...
And, are you talking about "Dirty Beret" ?? It was just a small group of programmers, not an established team .

By the dawn of the new millennium, there was really only one FG development team (went up the heading of Studio 1, but the reality was the actual FG team was quite small in comparison to the rest of the Studio)


What??
Every person who was at Studio 1 had previously worked on fighting games, this include: game designers, graphic designers, programmers ,etc

Of COURSE money was the main thing that basically killed Capcom's FG division. Well, that, and Capcom's rather shoddy treatment of its own personnel, which is what caused the likes of ARIKA and Craft & Meister to be created in the first place.

Nishitani wanted more money and Funamizu wanted freedom, that's what i think .

If you're familiar with ShoK, the doujin dev behind the "Darkstalkers-like" PC fighting game, "MONSTER"? He was a part of Capcom's Red Beret division. So, being one who was a part of all this, he knows the kind of stuff that went on with the company, or at least, how the FG development went.
He never went into deep detail about the kinds of things that went on back then, but even in his younger days, he could see that the writing was on the wall, when it came to how Capcom was down-sizing their FG development, and not treating the personnel all that well either.

Sho Kawakami told you this???? :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Tell me the source, please???

Who knows? If they still had the people available to make such a thing happen (and they do, a number of the people who work on the likes of DMC and Sengoku BASARA worked on previous Street Fighter games), they may have been able to make it work.

At the least, even if such a thing turned out to be a failure, it couldn't stand to be any worse for Capcom than how such things like Chaos Legion, Gotcha Force, Devil May Cry 2, Dino Crisis 3 and various other titles of varying budgets have negatively impacted Capcom...

Yeah, stop making DMC and Monster Hunter , very good idea :lol
 
Feb 15, 2006
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it's a curious decision on capcom's behalf to go with such a strong, domestic (read: japanese) license considering how the western markets have become so vital to a publisher's bottom line.

i think it's safe to assume this game will not come out here, in america.
 

TreIII

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vala said:
Not true at all ...
And, are you talking about "Dirty Beret" ?? It was just a small group of programmers, not an established team.

Alright, fine, I was wrong, it is called "Dirty Beret". But the truth was, whether they were an official "team" or not, they were the main that was utilized to craft a number of Capcom's CPS2 titles, again, including Vampire and Street Fighter Zero/Alpha.


What??
Every person who was at Studio 1 had previously worked on fighting games, this include: game designers, graphic designers, programmers ,etc

True, but ALL of them weren't commissioned to make FGs, after a while. The actual team devoted to making said games continually shrank as the years went. Like I said, by CFJ, there was really only one guy who was devoted to working on said game, and then he and everyone else moved on to other projects.

Nishitani wanted more money and Funamizu wanted freedom, that's what i think.

Nishitani also desired to be able to more with the SF series than what Capcom was willing to allow at the time, which, along with how they were treating him, gave him reason to defect.

The latest (unconfirmed, yet feasible) scuttlebutt was that, at one point, ARIKA was going to help Capcom craft Capcom All Stars (the game we were supposed to get instead of CFJ). But following that deal going flat, attitudes soured between ARIKA and Capcom. It's highly doubtful that any

Sho Kawakami told you this???? :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Tell me the source, please???

He didn't tell me, he told it through his more or less "English MONSTER-related correspondent". If you're interesting in finding more, seek an audience with "Chip Zanuff v5" (or rather, AyaImmortal) over at SRK. If you're nice, he tell you as much as ShoK was willing to share about his days at Beret.

[quote[Yeah, stop making DMC and Monster Hunter , very good idea :lol[/QUOTE]

*insert many types of appropriate foreheadslap.gifs here*

Way to miss the point...who said ANYTHING that they had to STOP making any of these games to make one FG? You think that development teams at a company are only capable of doing one or two types of things, stopping development entirely on the others? :lol
 

yurinka

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HERE COMES A NEW CHALLENGER!

Hey TreIII! All the programmers of 3rd Strike are still in Capcom (100% of them).

The "DIMPS made SFIV" statement is not true. The "core" work (producing, design, character design, some coding and other stuff) has been done by a Capcom of Japan team. A lot of stuff has been outsourced to Dimps and like 20 other companys included some others where works some ex-Street Fighter developers.

This outsouced work includes some coding, 3D modelling, 3D animation, CG videos and so on. And every piece of outsourced work has been overviewed by Capcom, they are very ambitious taking care of the quality.

Since one or two generations ago it's very common to outsource a lot of stuff, and not only in Capcom. It's common in all the gaming industry.

BTW, some SFIV trivia: Hiroshi Matsumoto is the managing director of the board of directors in Dimps, where he also worked as executive producer in games like DBZ Budokai and Budokai 2. He also was Street Fighter 1 planner in Capcom, before he went to SNK where he worked in Fatal Fury 1 and 2, Art of Fighting 1, 2 and 3, plus in other games.

Vala, TreIII is not a liar. And BTW, nice Tombi avatar.
 

TreIII

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vala said:
Yeah, can you show me the source??

I just GAVE you the "source". Hit up AyaImmortal (Chipp Zanuff v5) on SRK if you want to know more about ShoK, as he's the one who keeps in touch with ShoK on a continued basis, and thus would be the foremost authority to talk about what ShoK told him. That's all I'll say about that. Up to you entirely if you don't want to pursue this.


From that very link....

Programmer - K, Hard.Yas - Finale=Rosso -, Kazuhito Nakai, Kobuta

The story goes that "Hard.Yas" was basically the main one working on this title, as far as actual coding was concerned, with possibly the others like Kazuhito Nakai helping out from time to time (then rumored to have left the project before it was even finalized, along with many others as the project continued to come apart at the seams).

But, as was pretty much known about the game since the jump, the development cycle for the title was so short, so haphazard, so discombobulated and so "why? we don't really even CARE any more!", the proof was basically in the pudding by the end product we got in CFJ.

So, by the last few months before release, you might as well say that there was really one man who tried his damndest to program a project that worked. And then by the end of that, he too gave up on FGs and went off to do something else, which effectively ended the last bit of "devoted" FG development in-house within Capcom.


yurinka said:
Hey TreIII! All the programmers of 3rd Strike are still in Capcom (100% of them).

I never said they were all gone.

All I've been saying, since the start, is that various programmers and designers who worked at Capcom's FG divisions either a) went off to do other stuff within the company or b) may have eventually left the company entirely. Both of which are indeed the case.

The "DIMPS made SFIV" statement is not true. The "core" work (producing, design, character design, some coding and other stuff) has been done by a Capcom of Japan team. A lot of stuff has been outsourced to Dimps and like 20 other companys included some others where works some ex-Street Fighter developers.

This outsouced work includes some coding, 3D modelling, 3D animation, CG videos and so on. And every piece of outsourced work has been overviewed by Capcom, they are very ambitious taking care of the quality.

Alright, I stand corrected in this facet.

Still, I think it would be interesting to see the production credits, and see exactly how the chips may have fallen. Grunt work or no, I wouldn't at all be surprised if the majority of that kind of work (which usually ends up being the larger part of projects like this) fell into the hands of Dimps and co., with Capcom playing largely the supervisory role.
 

vala

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TreIII said:
I just GAVE you the "source".
That's all I'll say about that. Up to you entirely if you don't want to pursue this.

Typical liar!!!
How did you get the info ???. He sent you a mail, PM or something like that??? And you are the only one who have the information ....... right?

:lol :lol

The story goes that "Hard.Yas" was basically the main one working on this title, as far as actual coding was concerned, with possibly the others like Kazuhito Nakai helping out from time to time (then rumored to have left the project before it was even finalized, along with many others as the project continued to come apart at the seams).

But, as was pretty much known about the game since the jump, the development cycle for the title was so short, so haphazard, so discombobulated and so "why? we don't really even CARE any more!", the proof was basically in the pudding by the end product we got in CFJ.

So, by the last few months before release, you might as well say that there was really one man who tried his damndest to program a project that worked. And then by the end of that, he too gave up on FGs and went off to do something else, which effectively ended the last bit of "devoted" FG development in-house within Capcom.

Niiiiiiiiiiiiice story, but again, where is the source?????
 

Perdew

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Jan 3, 2008
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vala said:
Typical liar!!!
How did you get the info ???. He sent you a mail, PM or something like that??? And you are the only one who have the information ....... right?

:lol :lol



Niiiiiiiiiiiiice story, but again, where is the source?????

All Tre is trying to say, before you rip apart the minor details, is that current Capcom isn't creating sequels to their fighting franchises, or any fighting franchise, done wholly by their internal teams like they used to. I don't see anything controversial here:

1) Capcom's continuing collapse of its FG development - As the years went by, Capcom's once prominent FG development teams eventually either jumped ship to other teams within the company, or left the company entirely. ARIKA and Craft & Meister are good examples of former Capcom FG staff leaving the company to do their own thing. With them gone, Capcom had to continually shrink back development, until it basically was a thing that Capcom Fighting Jam was done by 1 person.

There's no reason to get upset at him. Either just put forward YOUR story with YOUR sources explicitly to prove whatever point you are trying to make, or move along. Honestly, unless you actually work for Capcom, I don't see why you are so quick to offend.

Back OT, has there been any info on hardware or developer yet? I can't quite wade through all these new posts.
 

TreIII

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vala said:
Typical liar!!!
How did you get the info ???. He sent you a mail, PM or something like that??? And you are the only one who have the information ....... right?

*sigh*

Alright, I'll make it a bit easier for you...

If you have an account on SRK.com, go here:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/member.php?u=55810

Or if you just want to read some of the guy's blogs (check the "Monster" section for an example of an "interview" with him and ShoK), go here:
http://www.blogger.com/profile/06489209785822197669

Find a way to get in contact with him, ask him politely about what you want to know, and if you're nice enough, the designated hype-man for MONSTER (ShoK's doujin game) will tell you what's he allowed to share with you, just like he did me. Maybe he might press you to join up for some matches on GGPO, if he thinks your cool.

It's just that simple. Go and inquire for yourself. And as I've said before, it's entirely up to you if you wish to do so, and get the facts for yourself. Trust me, I'm not going to lose sleep one way or the other...

Perdew said:
All Tre is trying to say, before you rip apart the minor details, is that current Capcom isn't creating sequels to their fighting franchises, or any fighting franchise, done wholly by their internal teams like they used to. I don't see anything controversial here

THANK YOU. At least one gets the gist of what I've been talking about from the jump.

Back OT, has there been any info on hardware or developer yet? I can't quite wade through all these new posts.

No confirmation on either of the two.

But most reasonable sorts are basically thinking that the hardware is pretty much definitely going to be on 246/256. The fact that they actually advertised Fate: Unlimited Codes on the back of the "book" on the website one week, and then Sengoku BASARA X this particular update (both of which are System 246/256 games) only does more to shed light on the notion that Capcom is just inches away from confirming that detail.

They'll eventually get around to telling us that kind of info soon enough.
 

vala

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I can prove what i'm saying, you know?

Example:

vala said:
That's why the FG development team (aka Capcom Studio 1) started working on other games like: Automodellista, DMC series, Resident Evil Outbreak , Gundam Vs series, Monster "lots of money" Hunter series, Zelda , Gotcha Force, etc

 

Perdew

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Jan 3, 2008
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vala said:
I can prove what i'm saying, you know?

Example:

http://i26.tinypic.com/9fr420.jpg

That isn't the point. We are all aware that many of the programmers are still with Capcom. Like Tre and now myself are saying, other members either went to other companies (like the ones he pointed out) or are involved in other games. The point is that Capcom simply is NOT making these internally (not that they couldn't). In fact, your credits prove our point; look how spread out those teams have become.
 

Terrell

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Getting off the topic of measuring whose internet cock is bigger....

Anyone hoping they 3D up some of the popular SF3 characters like Ibuki or Makoto? If Capcom takes the safe route and just goes for the over-done Sakura/Morrigan/Felicia fan service bullshit without some new inclusions, I'll be grossly disappointed.
 

ezekial45

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Terrell said:
Getting off the topic of measuring whose internet cock is bigger....

Anyone hoping they 3D up some of the popular SF3 characters like Ibuki or Makoto? If Capcom takes the safe route and just goes for the over-done Sakura/Morrigan/Felicia fan service bullshit without some new inclusions, I'll be grossly disappointed.

I can't really see Ibuki or Makoto making the cut. Since those two are pretty tame for VS. games standards (over the top-ness), and adding over the top features to them will probably make them too different for vets, it seems likely we'll see Sakura/Morrigan/Felicia return.
 

gimz

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it looks sooo good, i hope they added a 4Player Smash mode beside the traditional 2P acrade mode XD
 

Raging Spaniard

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Who cares whos making it as long as its good? It doesnt even matter that Capcom still has the same engineers on staff, why should they stop working on Monster Hunter or DMC just because there's a new SF in development?
 

vala

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Perdew said:
That isn't the point.

WHAT? My point is that Capcom Studio 1 and "Fighting Games Studio" were the same thing! :lol They are the same people!!

I dare to say that 90% of the people responsible for the fighting games (from 1996 to 2001), are still in the company.
 

Perdew

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vala said:
WHAT? My point is that Capcom Studio 1 and "Fighting Games Studio" were the same thing! :lol They are the same people!!

I dare to say that 90% of the people responsible for the fighting games (from 1996 to 2001), are still in the company.


Cool. We agree that most of the people are in the company, and that some left for other studios, and that now they have mostly been separated and that Capcom will not put them on the same team to create another fighter. Right?

edit: And I don't think anyone was arguing that CS1 and 'FGS' were not the same thing? Unless Tre got his terms confused, in which case you are pretty much arguing over semantics. Also, this is just a derailment at this point, so if you want to keep arguing, feel free to use PMs.
 

Terrell

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ezekial45 said:
I can't really see Ibuki or Makoto making the cut. Since those two are pretty tame for VS. games standards (over the top-ness), and adding over the top features to them will probably make them too different for vets, it seems likely we'll see Sakura/Morrigan/Felicia return.
Well, I dunno, Sakura didn't really make the cut either until the gussied her up to be over-the-top. It's just that mainline Street Fighter titles downplay the grandiose battle presentation. I mean, look at Ibuki's super moves like Kasumi-Suzaku... they could totally over-do that. Remember, Sakura at one point had a teeny-tiny fireball, she plays NOTHING like her Alpha iterations, yet they toss her into every VS. game because... well, fan service.
Perhaps it just me wishing and praying that Capcom took one of their best character designs of the past 10 years and did more with it.
 

Perdew

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Terrell said:
Well, I dunno, Sakura didn't really make the cut either until the gussied her up to be over-the-top. It's just that mainline Street Fighter titles downplay the grandiose battle presentation. I mean, look at Ibuki's super moves like Kasumi-Suzaku... they could totally over-do that. Remember, Sakura at one point had a teeny-tiny fireball, she plays NOTHING like her Alpha iterations, yet they toss her into every VS. game because... well, fan service.
Perhaps it just me wishing and praying that Capcom took one of their best character designs of the past 10 years and did more with it.


I'd love to see Ibuki in game. She was in a non-SF3 game too, right? Puzzle Fighter maybe? Or was is Pocket Fighter? Either way, she'd be great, and I think her moveset is very workable in the genre.
plus Batsu is in, it's not like he was in every VS game...
 

Terrell

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Perdew said:
I'd love to see Ibuki in game. She was in a non-SF3 game too, right? Puzzle Fighter maybe? Or was is Pocket Fighter? Either way, she'd be great, and I think her moveset is very workable in the genre.
plus Batsu is in, it's not like he was in every VS game...
Yeah, Ibuki was in Pocket Fighter/Super Gem Fighter.
Ibuki and Hsien-Ko would make brilliant additions to this cast. Why Hsien-Ko wasn't part of any of the other VS. games when she was ALREADY over-the-top is beyond me. Maybe it was because she was a bit TOO over-the-top?
 

Xapati

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May 30, 2007
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Do we have a platform? If this is XBLA color me interested.

Edit: Failed to comprehend, it's an arcade game.