Tatsunoko vs Capcom, new arcade fighter. (Viewtiful Joe in 'da house!)

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Of course, something had to go wrong.

Here's the situation:
-PAL 3.3 Wii here
-Old European 60Hz CRT TV
-RGB scart cable and composite scart cable (so, 2 options)
-Homebrew Channel Beta 9 (latest version)
-GeckoOS 1.7 (latest version) for HBC
-GeckoOS 1.6dcf (the one with a color fix)

When I try to boot the game through GeckoOS 1.7, it works, but the game is red with the RGB cable, black & white with the composite cable. I tried several options (basically, force PAL50, PAL60 and NTSC, and the VIDTV thingie), but none of them work (either I get a green screen, or the game is black and white/red depending on the cable)

When I try to boot it through the color fixed 1.6 version? Same thing. Whether I force NTSC or not, the image is still black and white with composite, or red with RGB.

Help :(.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Kilrogg, that's really weird. i assume all your pal games work over both these cable setups, right? btw, does your tv have any other non-RF inputs aside from scart?
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
blu said:
Kilrogg, that's really weird. i assume all your pal games work over both these cable setups, right? btw, does your tv have any other non-RF inputs aside from scart?
Yes, they all work. I don't have any import games besides Tatsunoko though, so I don't know if the problem actually lies in the game itself or my TV.

The only other inputs I have are a yellow and a white thing. I tried to plug the composite cables in there, but it doesn't do anything: I can't display anything with those. No sound either, so I assume those ports have no purpose whatsoever :/.

Aside from that, no other inputs. Only the SCART one (and there's only one of them, not 2).
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
No idea whatsoever? Not even the slightest suggestion? Like, I don't know... Do you think an S-Video cable and a S-Video SCART adaptor would do the trick?
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Kilrogg said:
No idea whatsoever? Not even the slightest suggestion? Like, I don't know... Do you think an S-Video cable and a S-Video SCART adaptor would do the trick?
frankly, i'm totally at a loss here. disregarding the rgb scart, that composite should just work. i mean, it's not like the PAL and NTSC composite signals differ in anything but timing.

also, a customer post on the play-asia page of the game suggests TvC works fine on pal wiis through either the freeloader or gecko os, so go figure.

the only thing coming to mind is to ask at the gecko os forums, maybe somebody else there has encountered a similar issue.

ps: have you ever successfully run any pal60 games on your setup?

pps: just to confirm the suspicion, i'd check how the current wii+fw+gecko+cable+TvC work on another, possibly newer tv set.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
blu said:
the only thing coming to mind is to ask at the gecko os forums, maybe somebody else there has encountered a similar issue.
Already posted there, and still no helpful feedback. What can I say though? It's Christmas...

ps: have you ever successfully run any pal60 games on your setup?
Yes. Also, my Dreamcast NTSC games were displayed properly on that very same TV, so I'm at a loss. I know the Dreamcast is not the Wii, but still.

pps: just to confirm the suspicion, i'd check how the current wii+fw+gecko+cable+TvC work on another, possibly newer tv set.
That's what I intend to do anyway, but I won't be able to check that until New Year's Eve, unfortunately.

I sent an e-mail to the USBGecko support as well, and typed a message on two other forums (+ GAF and the GeckoOS messageboard).

Really, I don't know what's wrong. Either Tatsunoko is a very special game, or there's a problem with the Wii itself, but I'm not sure my TV is the problem here. Sure, it's an old 60Hz CRT, but still, as I said, never had a problem running Dreamcast NTSC games, so...

Thanks anyway, blu :).
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
I don't have any GC controller to begin with, so...

I can't try on a different television for now, but I think that would solve the problem. I know this color problem has to do with my TV because it's old, but what I don't get is that I've been able to play NTSC games on the Dreamcast without having any color-related problem (or any problem whatsoever), so why doesn't Tatsunoko work properly?

The black and white thing is supposed to come from the fact that old TVs like mine can't handle NTSC signals properly, but, as I said, Dreamcast NTSC games work fine...

Just to be sure, I tried to run the game through older versions of GeckoOS (1.6 without the color fix and 1.5), but they won't solve the problem.

Maybe the game would be properly displayed if I could somehow force PAL50 or PAL60, but I get a green screen when I do that.
 
Kilrogg, sorry to hear that.

I had the same problem with No More Heroes. Solution: Got a new TV. Guess you know what to get for New Year's. :/

There was a post listing the various options a while ago in the Freeloader thread:
Rayne.S said:
PAL + Freeloader + Composite
Works fine IF your TV supports NTSC 60Hz. Free anti-aliasing too ! Downside, composite does look really sucky....

SDTV
60Hz AND NTSC compatible : perfect imperfect composite picture, Smash away, just don;t look for details on the characters, they are there, you just can't see em.
60Hz Compatible but incapable of NTSC : Black and White
60Hz Incompatible : Rolling image top to bottom

PAL + Freeloader + SVideo
Best solution if you're component-less, BUT you need a TV that supprts NTSC 60Hz

PAL + Freeloader + RGB : NOT COMPATIBLE !
Tough luck, Virtual-Boy-O-rama. Totally red/black. Sucks cause most PAL TV's only support NTSC 60Hz through RGB.

PAL + Freeloader + Component
Best solution, alas, most SDTV's are without component inputs in euroland.


So, now that we have the TV problems out of the way, lets see if your Wii is one of the Wii's incapable of running Smash Bros Brawl because of laserproblems/smokers-Wii
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10218959&postcount=286
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Dascu said:
Kilrogg, sorry to hear that.

I had the same problem with No More Heroes. Solution: Got a new TV. Guess you know what to get for New Year's. :/

There was a post listing the various options a while ago in the Freeloader thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10218959&postcount=286
Yay... :(

Someone also told me that Japanese Dreamcast games support PAL60, that's why they worked properly. Crushes any hope I had left.

I might be able to get another TV without buying a new one. I just hope it'll be 60Hz compatible.

Thank you for your answer ^^.

Oh well, Merry Christmas anyway :p.

By the way, if you know where I can get a cheap good enough TV, please let me know. I don't care if it's CRT, LCD, HD or SD, 16:9 or 4:3, as long as it's not Plasma, supports NTSC and doesn't have a completely crappy image quality.
 

Burai

shitonmychest57
Kilrogg said:
Yay... :(

Someone also told me that Japanese Dreamcast games support PAL60, that's why they worked properly. Crushes any hope I had left.

I might be able to get another TV without buying a new one. I just hope it'll be 60Hz compatible.

Thank you for your answer ^^.

Oh well, Merry Christmas anyway :p.

By the way, if you know where I can get a cheap good enough TV, please let me know. I don't care if it's CRT, LCD, HD or SD, 16:9 or 4:3, as long as it's not Plasma, supports NTSC and doesn't have a completely crappy image quality.
Did you have an RGB cable for your Dreamcast? If so, NTSC and PAL don't come into it, just 50Hz and 60Hz so PAL60 and NTSC are the same thing as far as your TV's scart socket is concerned. It only makes a difference if you use RF, composite or s-video.

The reason the Wii won't do the same thing is because Nintendo set the AV-out to not support RGB on NTSC consoles (thus the red image) and to not support s-video on PAL consoles to discourage importing. By forcing NTSC mode, you basically tell the Wii to switch to s-video mode and therefore your RGB lead won't work any more.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Burai said:
Did you have an RGB cable for your Dreamcast? If so, NTSC and PAL don't come into it, just 50Hz and 60Hz so PAL60 and NTSC are the same thing as far as your TV's scart socket is concerned. It only makes a difference if you use RF, composite or s-video.

The reason the Wii won't do the same thing is because Nintendo set the AV-out to not support RGB on NTSC consoles (thus the red image) and to not support s-video on PAL consoles to discourage importing. By forcing NTSC mode, you basically tell the Wii to switch to s-video mode and therefore your RGB lead won't work any more.
I had the cable that comes with the console, so I assume it was composite... Unless the Dreamcast came with an RGB cable in Europe? I doubt it, but who knows.

Anyway, thanks for the info. It's one thing to make your console region-locked, because at least you can argue that it allows for more control, but to deter people from importing games? I like Nintendo, but that's just lame :/.

[EDIT] By the way, does that mean that, if I played the game on a Japanese Wii on my TV, the game would be displayed properly?
 

Burai

shitonmychest57
Kilrogg said:
[EDIT] By the way, does that mean that, if I played the game on a Japanese Wii on my TV, the game would be displayed properly?
No, because your TV still wouldn't support NTSC. All your PAL Wii is doing when you force NTSC mode is the exact same that a Japanese machine would do. Your TV is the weak link in the chain.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Ookami-kun said:
Doesn't gecko OS force TV signals?
Well, either you leave it on "default" and it normally forces whatever mode the game is supposed to run in, or you can indeed force NTSC, PAL50 or PAL60. Sometimes, I think you can force several modes, but for Tatsunoko for instance, you can only force NTSC (which is the way the game is supposed to run anyway). If you try to force PAL50 or PAL60, you get a green screen and have to reboot the system.

Thanks again Burai. Time to get another TV then.

In the meantime, I'll play in black and white. Not easy on the eyes to say the least :p.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Tenbatsu said:
Preparation for MadWorld!:lol
Haha, nice one :D. I'm not sure Madworld is for me though.

Seriously though, for a colorful, fast-paced fighting game like Tatsunoko, playing in black and white is a shame, because you have a hard time making out some details. Oh well, I still managed to beat Yami twice, but I had to choose characters that are easy to play, like Chun-Li, Ryu, Tekkaman and Ken. Casshern was the first character I chose, and I found him pretty hard to play properly.

I might have to change the control scheme. Y-X-A for light-medium-fierce doesn't cut it for me. A vertical control scheme (B-Y-X, and A for partner) should do the trick.

Does anyone like the default control scheme on the Classic Controller?

[EDIT] Dascu, did you get used to playing NMH in black and white? I don't think I could for a game like TvC. Luckily, I might solve the problem by tonight :D. I'll take my grandmother's TV set if it can display the game properly and give her the old TV.
 
I finally beat the last guy. He's pretty easy once you get the hang of his 3rd form. BTW am I the only one who gets carpal playing the game with the classic controller? I've been using the gamecube controller instead which works surprisingly well for this game.
 
Kilrogg said:
[EDIT] Dascu, did you get used to playing NMH in black and white? I don't think I could for a game like TvC. Luckily, I might solve the problem by tonight :D. I'll take my grandmother's TV set if it can display the game properly and give her the old TV.
Only played it for a few days. Managed to get a new (HD LCD) TV fairly soon. It was bearable, but also kind of ironic considering how I imported NMH to get the red bloodfountain instead of the black pixel cloud in the PAL version. Didn't really make a difference if it's in black & white though. :lol
 
Kilrogg said:
I had the cable that comes with the console, so I assume it was composite... Unless the Dreamcast came with an RGB cable in Europe? I doubt it, but who knows.

Anyway, thanks for the info. It's one thing to make your console region-locked, because at least you can argue that it allows for more control, but to deter people from importing games? I like Nintendo, but that's just lame :/.

[EDIT] By the way, does that mean that, if I played the game on a Japanese Wii on my TV, the game would be displayed properly?
Dreamcast did came with an RGB cable in euroland .... :D Only console that ever did btw !
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Rayne.S said:
Dreamcast did came with an RGB cable in euroland .... :D Only console that ever did btw !
Which proves how awesome it was.

Good news: got the other TV, which is slightly less old and... it works! :D:D

I have to play through composite, but I don't mind much, as long as all the colors are there :p.

Thanks again everyone.
 
Kilrogg said:
Which proves how awesome it was.

Good news: got the other TV, which is slightly less old and... it works! :D:D

I have to play through composite, but I don't mind much, as long as all the colors are there :p.

Thanks again everyone.
They are there allright ... here, there everywhere ... bleeding down the screen thanks to glorious Composite :D
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Rayne.S said:
They are there allright ... here, there everywhere ... bleeding down the screen thanks to glorious Composite :D
Haha :D. I much prefer that to being reminded of the Virtual Boy, which I've never owned in the first place for a reason.
 
Kilrogg said:
Haha :D. I much prefer that to being reminded of the Virtual Boy, which I've never owned in the first place for a reason.
Do you have a sizeable PC monitor ? Is so, use the VGA blaster thats available right now. Playing any game through composite hurts the eyes beyond repair.
 
There's an entry on the official site that attempts to answer the questions about the "missing" characters, and they list the characters which were considered, but didn't make it in the end :

Tatsunoko Side :

- Condor no Joe
- Yattaman #2
- Shurato
- Soul Taker
- Nakahara Komugi
- Daikyojin
- Beruku Katsue
- Tekkaman Evil
- Braiking Boss

Capcom Side :

- Leon
- Nash (Charlie)
- Date Masamune
- Arthur
- Ibuki
- Vega (M. Bison)
- ReiRei
- Zero Gouki
- Tiara Hime
- Nero
- June
- Rouge
- Tyrant
- Hinata

It's said that they decided of a 22-characters roster from the beginning, so it would seem like they had to narrow down the selection a bit. Finally, they give their main reasonings behind the omission of some characters :

1. Copyright issues
2. Licensed character which would be too difficult to translate into this game (concerns a large number of characters apparently)
3. Preferences
4. Overall balance

Oh, by the way, the producer also mentions how he would love to work on a sequel, and how he would like the game to sell a little more. I would think that both are related...

And here's the link :

http://www.capcom.co.jp/tatsucap/column11.html

[edit] Oh, yes, forgot about Tyrant and Hinata. Thanks Netto-kun.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
There's something I don't get about Ippatsuman and Viewtiful Joe:

When people say you have to clear the game 3 times with a Capcom character (VJ) or a Tatsunoko character (Ippatsuman), what do they actually mean?

I'm pretty sure I've cleared the game with at least 3 different Capcom characters (dishing the final blow to Yami), and Viewtiful Joe still doesn't appear in the shop. Am I mistaken, or is there something I'm missing?
 
Kilrogg said:
There's something I don't get about Ippatsuman and Viewtiful Joe:

When people say you have to clear the game 3 times with a Capcom character (VJ) or a Tatsunoko character (Ippatsuman), what do they actually mean?

I'm pretty sure I've cleared the game with at least 3 different Capcom characters (dishing the final blow to Yami), and Viewtiful Joe still doesn't appear in the shop. Am I mistaken, or is there something I'm missing?
You need to get 3 different Capcom character endings to unlock Viewtiful Joe. He should be in the shop for 2000 points then. Killing Yami with a Capcom character's tag attack doesn't count by the way. :p
 
I can help but laugh a bit at the fact that, among so many others that have been considered, Date Masamune (Sengoku BASARA) and Nero were in the running, while Dante, or any other DMC character for that matter, wasn't at all. :lol

But on the other hand, even seeing the notion that Tekkaman Evil, Shulato and Soul Taker were considered at all (but wouldn't have been able to make it due to licensing) does hurt. Sotsu TV, you guys BETTER be willing to play ball next time.

ezekial45 said:
So is the game selling decently?
For the amount that was supposedly shipped (~30,000, give or take), TvC sold basically around 70-80% of its shipment. For a budget release that had quite a limited printing and even more limited advertising, that's quite good.

If the game can perhaps get to around 80-90% of that shipment moved within the next few weeks/months or better, that will just do more to impress the Capcom suits, and thus, warrant a sequel.

Frankly, I could see them doing a sequel any way, since having more classic & "new school" characters on both sides would definitely do much to attract more people. And if a sequel would end up costing about the same (or arguably, even less) than the original, that would be all the more incentive to invest in such a thing.
 
Damn Yami annoys me with his high priority and immunity to stun >: Unlocked Joe and Ippatsu but had to give up due to hand cramps :lol Although I don't know half of the Tatsunoko shows, some of the characters play great (loving Yatterman, Ken and Jun) and it's a refreshing change to just a mash up of familiar characters from other fighters (SvC etc).

Ibuki, Yatterman-2 and Nero would have been great D: