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Techradar tests PS5 VRR

SLB1904

Gold Member
I have eyes my man. Try it out yourself.

Please
 

onesvenus

Member
I'm not understanding one thing, isn't system VRR the only thing needed to mitigate those drops and VRR support in games uncapping the framerates so that they can go higher? I don't recall no one saying that in Xbox there is VRR support in the games, just the system implementation kicking in when needed to resolve stutter and drops. I'm confused.
It seems the PS5 is lacking Low Framerate Compensation (LFC) which, when framerate falls below the lower bound of VRR, doubles or triples frames to keep the framerate between bounds so VRR is always working.
Developers nees to implement that on their games
 

SLB1904

Gold Member
I’ve named a specific cup that is awful to play (latest patch installed). I did not say that game is not running mostly ok.
Try the cup I’ve mentioned and then tell me you don’t notice bad framerate.
Which cup is that? I'll record. Gr4 redbull ring?
 

s-bojan

Member
Which cup is that? I'll record. Gr4 redbull ring?
High speed ring gr4. It is dropping frames the whole time and I would really like to know why. Maybe gr4 cars have more polygons or the cars are too close during the race.
I don’t mind sporadic framedrops (notice them, but they don’t affect my enjoyment that much). But this is the worst case I’ve seen (I’ve finished 1/4 of the campaign).
 

SLB1904

Gold Member
High speed ring gr4. It is dropping frames the whole time and I would really like to know why. Maybe gr4 cars have more polygons or the cars are too close during the race.
I don’t mind sporadic framedrops (notice them, but they don’t affect my enjoyment that much). But this is the worst case I’ve seen (I’ve finished 1/4 of the campaign).
God damn that track is boring 😆
Just to clarify you are on ps5 right?
 

SLB1904

Gold Member
Yes, playing in rt mode, but that does not affect the gameplay, right?
I will try to do some diy fps analysis later today.
Yeah rt mode is only for replays and menus. I'll be honest I went back in forth and the difference is minimal for the frame difference.
 
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sncvsrtoip

Member
there's literally video evidence of the game dropping into the 40s...



it in fact drops below the PS5's VRR range at points as seen in this video (it actually remains below 48fps for multiple seconds during one of the turns), meaning a 120hz patch with LFC would be handy here, not only due to the fps drop but also because at 120hz output your TV has lower input latency
vrr patch with uncapped frames would be awsome, we could see often 80fps like in Miles
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member

PS5 HDMI capability​

As we mentioned above, the PS5's HDMI cable and port are the HDMI 2.1 standard, which means the cable can transfer data much faster than a regular HDMI port.

To get into the specifics here, this means on a technical side that the PS5's 2.1 HDMI has a bandwidth of 48Gbps, which is almost three times more than a 2.0b.

This is what allows it to support 8K video at 60fps and 4K video at 60-120fps (depending on the game you're playing).


Same site wrote this article so…
Did Sony finally update our PS5s to 48Gbps?

I am so far behind on these updates
 

FrankWza

Member
As of this video Vincent claims it was still 32 on April 26th

That’s what I’m saying. He made the initial claim of 32gbps after launch. Tech radar updated that article in January of this year. Someone is really wrong. Also, Sony has never confirmed that the HDMI ports are 32gbps.
 

mitchman

Gold Member
This is not VRRs fault. In fact 4k/120hz cannot go beyond 4:2:2 even on Xbox. This is an HDMI limitation.

4k/120hz requires only 25.82 Gbps of bandwidth, well within the capabilities of a normal HDMI 2.1 implementation. Max bandwidth for most full bandwidth implementations is 48 Gbps, which (with DSC) allows for 8k@120hz.
 

s-bojan

Member
s-bojan s-bojan I've done the race, honestly couldn't tell you. It's mostly straights and there is like 6 cars ahead. Not much chaos going on.
Ok, it took me way more time than I've expected as I've upgraded to W11 in the meantime and my capture card was not working as it was in the incorrect pci slot.
After fixing these issues, I was able to do a raw recording and analyze it with trdrop. It is a free tool, so it's for sure not as good as DF/NX Gamer tools, but it was close enough based on some previous analysis I've did.

This is my car and cars I was racing against:


And you can check the analysis here:


I've also asked about it in DF discord...so who knows, maybe they will look into it after VRR patch for the game is released (if the drops are really under 48, this would be a good LFC scenario).
 
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Mr Moose

Member
Ok, it took me way more time than I've expected as I've upgraded to W11 in the meantime and my capture card was not working as it was in the incorrect pci slot.
After fixing these issues, I was able to do a raw recording and analyze it with trdrop. It is a free tool, so it's for sure not as good as DF/NX Gamer tools, but it was close enough based on some previous analysis I've did.

This is my car and cars I was racing against:


And you can check the analysis here:


I've also asked about it in DF discord...so who knows, maybe they will look into it after VRR patch for the game is released (if the drops are really under 48, this would be a good LFC scenario).
Is the white line at the top meant to be screen tearing?
 

adamsapple

Gold Member
Ok, it took me way more time than I've expected as I've upgraded to W11 in the meantime and my capture card was not working as it was in the incorrect pci slot.
After fixing these issues, I was able to do a raw recording and analyze it with trdrop. It is a free tool, so it's for sure not as good as DF/NX Gamer tools, but it was close enough based on some previous analysis I've did.

This is my car and cars I was racing against:


And you can check the analysis here:


I've also asked about it in DF discord...so who knows, maybe they will look into it after VRR patch for the game is released (if the drops are really under 48, this would be a good LFC scenario).



Your video shows a couple of drops reaching 45 FPS where they would be under the 48hz threshold. Thanks for putting the extra effort.

Odd that VRR doesn't seem to work on this game even when forced on a system level.
 
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SLB1904

Gold Member
Ok, it took me way more time than I've expected as I've upgraded to W11 in the meantime and my capture card was not working as it was in the incorrect pci slot.
After fixing these issues, I was able to do a raw recording and analyze it with trdrop. It is a free tool, so it's for sure not as good as DF/NX Gamer tools, but it was close enough based on some previous analysis I've did.

This is my car and cars I was racing against:


And you can check the analysis here:


I've also asked about it in DF discord...so who knows, maybe they will look into it after VRR patch for the game is released (if the drops are really under 48, this would be a good LFC scenario).
Interesting findings. Do you record straight from your playstation, how does it work? Because there some pretty noticeable drops here and some random in the straight with literally nothing on screen, and at some time solid with loads of cars.
I'll see if can do run again. And see if I can catch anything.
 

Mr Moose

Member
Interesting findings. Do you record straight from your playstation, how does it work? Because there some pretty noticeable drops here and some random in the straight with literally nothing on screen, and at some time solid with loads of cars.
I'll see if can do run again. And see if I can catch anything.
You can use an external capture card to record footage, but that footage is showing a white line at the top when the fps drops which is an indication of screen tearing (I checked my trdrop, default is white). GT7 does not tear.
 

Rocco Schiavone

I am terrified of Microsoft and am always concerned about them.
Eve Spectrum 4K being a "certified" HDMI 2.1 monitor and not supporting the 'HDMI Forum VRR' feels bad. I give the Eve Company a couple of months to get it fixed. But my hopes are not up looking at their track record for fixing stuff.
Sounds more like false advertising to me.
 

SLB1904

Gold Member
You can use an external capture card to record footage, but that footage is showing a white line at the top when the fps drops which is an indication of screen tearing (I checked my trdrop, default is white). GT7 does not tear.
Doesn't really matter, that track and setup shouldn't drop any frame. That something developers need to fix not relying on vrr.
In his video show more severe drops than the stress test video with rain and stuff on screen.
 

Mr Moose

Member
Doesn't really matter, that track and setup shouldn't drop any frame. That something developers need to fix not relying on vrr.
In his video show more severe drops than the stress test video with rain and stuff on screen.
If the software (trdrop) used is detecting tearing, it can't be used as evidence for anything since there is no screen tearing in the game.
 

SLB1904

Gold Member
If the software (trdrop) used is detecting tearing, it can't be used as evidence for anything since there is no screen tearing in the game.
I mean I don't want to dismiss is stuff. Since my last comment I've being running the same track and I haven't found any slow downs like that. About tearing there is no tearing at all. That I can say for sure. But I can't detect small framedrops i will only able to obvious big 10 frame drops that i can say for sure. Unfortunately i have no capture cardnor anything like that to get the frames. One thing I can tell you for sure it ain't no elden ring, that one is pretty noticeable lol

s-bojan s-bojan I know is a lot of work, but can you try do a customise race, with the same setup to see if anything changes?
Cheers mate
 
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Tripolygon

Member
4k/120hz requires only 25.82 Gbps of bandwidth, well within the capabilities of a normal HDMI 2.1 implementation. Max bandwidth for most full bandwidth implementations is 48 Gbps, which (with DSC) allows for 8k@120hz.
4K/120Hz 8bit
4:2:2 = 21Gbps
4:4:4 = 32Gbps

4K/120Hz 10bit
4:2:2 = 26Gbps
4:4:4 = 40Gbps

4K/120Hz 12bit
4:2:2 = 32Gbps
4:4:4 = 48Gbps
 

s-bojan

Member
I mean I don't want to dismiss is stuff. Since my last comment I've being running the same track and I haven't found any slow downs like that. About tearing there is no tearing at all. That I can say for sure. But I can't detect small framedrops i will only able to obvious big 10 frame drops that i can say for sure. Unfortunately i have no capture cardnor anything like that to get the frames. One thing I can tell you for sure it ain't no elden ring, that one is pretty noticeable lol

s-bojan s-bojan I know is a lot of work, but can you try do a customise race, with the same setup to see if anything changes?
Cheers mate
I am as confused as you are, as there are way more complex tracks and it should not drop frames as nothing major is happening.
I’ve tried that track with regular cars and there were no drops. Are your oponents always the same no mater which car you chose? Maybe it is camera related? Or car related? I will try running without rt, maybe there is some bug just in this event.

I can try any setup you suggest. It takes me a few minutes to record a raw footage (using nvidia hevc codec) and 15-20 minutes to extract audio, do the analysis and merge files. Which car do you use in this event? Maybe I should try that one first.

This is the only event where I’ve noticed severe drops. And like I’ve said, trdrop is cool, but I would really like if DF or nx gamer could test this out.
 
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SLB1904

Gold Member
I am as confused as you are, as there are way more complex tracks and it should not drop frames as nothing major is happening.
I’ve tried that track with regular cars and there were no drops. Are your oponents always the same no mater which car you chose? Maybe it is camera related? Or car related? I will try running without rt, maybe there is some bug just in this event.

I can try any setup you suggest. It takes me a few minutes to record a raw footage (using nvidia hevc codec) and 15-20 minutes to extract audio, do the analysis and merge files. Which car do you use in this event? Maybe I should try that one first.

This is the only event where I’ve noticed severe drops. And like I’ve said, trdrop is cool, but I would really like if DF or nx gamer could test this out.
Yeah this cup the opponents are always the same. So it shouldn't have any impact on that.
I just want you to test with same setup in a customised race to see if there is any change. Yeah I never done this race till today due to lower pay, I'm mostly doing the missions and other stuff with big money. So watching your results was quite shocking tbh, I'm mostly not sensitive to frame drops but that one on the first corner is very hard to miss.
 

RoadHazard

Member
there's literally video evidence of the game dropping into the 40s...



it in fact drops below the PS5's VRR range at points as seen in this video (it actually remains below 48fps for multiple seconds during one of the turns), meaning a 120hz patch with LFC would be handy here, not only due to the fps drop but also because at 120hz output your TV has lower input latency

I've never understood how 120hz gives lower latency. 120fps, yes, that's obvious, but 60fps at 120hz has the same latency between new unique frames (not duplicates, where nothing new can happen) as 60fps at 60hz, so how does that work?
 

Gordon Freeman

Gold Member
Just out of curiosity, who tells you this stuff?



It’s literally been a point of discussion since the consoles launched.
 

Mr Moose

Member
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Mr Moose

Member
Freesync and Freesync Ultimate have been around a while before RDNA2. RDNA2 is not required for any kind of variable refresh rate.

Sony did half ass with not including Freesync on their cosnoles and only the HDMI forum VRR, but that doesn't involve RDNA 2 in any way.
I wish they did, could've put off buying a new TV for a while longer and continued to use my monitor.
Some of the games coming out recently run a bit shit and I can't stand screen tearing. I want to play Ghostwire, new TV won't arrive until the 10th though :messenger_weary:
 

SlimySnake

Member
1.5 years late and not even that great. I think the evidence is piling up that it is true that the PS5 rushed and skipped full RDNA2 architecture so they are stuck making their own half assed solutions like this that are not only late but now worse.
lol this is not some custom half baked solution. They just designed it around hdmi 2.1 compliance standards.

You guys are hilarious.
 

Mr Moose

Member
Why? I genuinely don't know, haven't been following that as I don't have a next gen console yet. Could you explain it or link to an explanation?
40fps is significantly faster, smoother, and there are also input lag benefits too.

There are a couple of takeaways from this testing. The highlight is that on average, the 40fps mode is only 6ms slower than the 60fps performance RT mode running on a 60Hz display. Meanwhile, if you opt to stick with the performance RT mode but with the game set to 120Hz output, input lag drops by around 14ms on average. Put simply, the game feels more responsive and better to play. Meanwhile running the 30fps fidelity mode on a 60Hz screen is clearly the least responsive way to play the game overall - with a 117.5ms lag measurement. Insomniac mentions into its patch notes that the new 40fps fidelity mode is about reduced latency, but I was somewhat surprised at just how much of a win it is on my screen.
Game Mode Performance Target Display Mode End-To-End Input Lag
Fidelity Mode 30fps/33.3ms 60Hz 117.5ms
Fidelity Mode 40fps/25ms 120Hz 80.8ms
Performance RT Mode 60fps/16.7ms 60Hz 75ms
Performance RT Mode 60fps/16.7ms 120Hz 60.8ms
You just need a 120Hz screen for this, but with the VRR updates it unlocks the 40fps cap so it can go above it.
 
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TLZ

Gold Member


It’s literally been a point of discussion since the consoles launched.
It's 2022. Not 2020. This dead horse has not only been beaten, but tortured to death. Everyone has moved past this dead discussion.
 
Why do I need to on a own a xbox when i can play every exclusive on PC for a fraction of the price, he'll even the game pass on PC is dirty cheap.

Fraction of the cost? You do realise Microsoft games are equal the price on both Platforms, PC and Xbox consoles? Xbox Game Pass is the same price on both platforms as well, expecially the Ultimate Edition which can be cheaper than the PC game Pass.
 

SLB1904

Gold Member
Why? I genuinely don't know, haven't been following that as I don't have a next gen console yet. Could you explain it or link to an explanation?
Yeah digital foundry has post on it.
Pretty much bumps the framerate to 80fps
Good stuff.
Just hope every developer uses the same stuff
 
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