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Techradar tests PS5 VRR

SLB1904

Gold Member
Fraction of the cost? You do realise Microsoft games are equal the price on both Platforms, PC and Xbox consoles? Xbox Game Pass is the same price on both platforms as well, expecially the Ultimate Edition which can be cheaper than the PC game Pass.
Cd keys says otherwise, but carry on
You're just straight up fucking delusional.

59 fps with v-sync is an eye sore in a racing game and is extremely easy to notice.

But what else can we expect from such a warrior, willing to desperately defend literally anything.

Pathetic.
Eye sore lmfao. What's next a slide show 🤔
Just fuck out of here with your hyperbole 🤡
 

SatansReverence

Hipster Princess
Cd keys says otherwise, but carry on
Eye sore lmfao. What's next a slide show 🤔
Just fuck out of here with your hyperbole 🤡
There is no hyperbole here warrior.

59 fps with vsync is just bad.

The end.

Imagine being so desperate to defend your anti vrr narrative you've been living with the last couple years that you resort to defending constant pausing stutters in a racing game.

You really are a fucking clown.
 

8BiTw0LF

Gold Member
Sounds more like false advertising to me.
agencylife advertisement GIF by MX Player
 

01011001

Gold Member
Sounds more like false advertising to me.
no, the issue is that the HDMI forum are being a bunch of idiots and literally wiped HDMI 2.0 from existence.

my 3 year old Samsung TV is now technically HDMI 2.1... it was 2.0 back when I bought it but no more 🤣

HDMI 2.1 is now just an umbrella term for an HDMI chip that CAN have several features, but DOESN'T NEED to have those features.
 

Gordon Freeman

Gold Member
It's 2022. Not 2020. This dead horse has not only been beaten, but tortured to death. Everyone has moved past this dead discussion.

Yet more evidence like this odd VRR solution that normally on a proper RNDA2 chipset is an easily flick of the switch seemingly wasn’t possible on PS5 and Sony created a solution that is at odds with the industry standard and what’s found on most RDNA2 chipsets.

So the dead horse is now a zombie walking among us.
 
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SLB1904

Gold Member
There is no hyperbole here warrior.

59 fps with vsync is just bad.

The end.

Imagine being so desperate to defend your anti vrr narrative you've been living with the last couple years that you resort to defending constant pausing stutters in a racing game.

You really are a fucking clown.
 

Rivet

Gold Member
There is no hyperbole here warrior.

59 fps with vsync is just bad.

The end.

Imagine being so desperate to defend your anti vrr narrative you've been living with the last couple years that you resort to defending constant pausing stutters in a racing game.

You really are a fucking clown.

There was zero stutter in GT7 as much as I could see in the 10 or 12 hours I played. It was 100 % fluid to me. I don't think this game needs VRR at all.
 

Rivet

Gold Member
The point here is industry standards for VRR is what they mention and Sonys solution doesn’t meet industry standards as their VRR solution doesn’t support FPS under 48fps while the standard is 40fps.

VRR standard is 48 Hz for lower bound, it has nothing to do with Sony.

Freesync is 40 Hz lower bound. Not VRR

Even a Xbox fan like Adam just explained that to you... Why double down?
 
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SatansReverence

Hipster Princess

No need, you're already drowning this thread in tears.
There was zero stutter in GT7 as much as I could see in the 10 or 12 hours I played. It was 100 % fluid to me. I don't think this game needs VRR at all.
Ah yes, the warrior on perm notice is definitely going to be forth coming about problems.

Yes, we get it, you all had to wait a year for what should have been a basic feature only for it to be a poor implementation of it and now you're all upset and lashing out.
 

Rivet

Gold Member
No need, you're already drowning this thread in tears.

Ah yes, the warrior on perm notice is definitely going to be forth coming about problems.

Yes, we get it, you all had to wait a year for what should have been a basic feature only for it to be a poor implementation of it and now you're all upset and lashing out.

You should take a break before going in full meltdown mode like that. GT7 looks fluid to everybody, it has nothing to do with me. I'm not on perm notice at all by the way, as much as I can tell. I was only banned twice, so less than tons of people here.

VRR coming to PS5 is obviously a good thing. But it's not the game changer people want to make out of it. Most games on PS5 run perfectly fine and don't need that. Which is a good thing because few people have a VRR screen anyway.

The 48 Hz border isn't much of a problem at all either. For once, patched and future games could simply use LFC below 48 fps.

Then most games simply won't need going below 48 because when you target 60 fps (so trying to be locked 60), it's relatively rare you miss the target that much that you drop under 48 regularly. Only From Software could actually make it that bad with Elden Ring...

As a dev, you just failed your 60 fps mode if it often drops under 48... I mean most people don't have VRR, so your mode would be terrible for most gamers anyway. I don't think it will happen very often.
 
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Mr Moose

Member
The point here is industry standards for VRR is what they mention and Sonys solution doesn’t meet industry standards as their VRR solution doesn’t support FPS under 48fps while the standard is 40fps.

You don't know what you are talking about and didn't even read the OP.
Weird how you didn't mention anything about USB-C from that industry standards quote you linked. Guess which console has that?
The industry standard mentioned on the AMD site is, as it says, HDMI 2.1 VRR.
Perhaps the biggest issue with VRR, though, is the fact that Sony chose to use the HDMI 2.1 VRR standard and not AMD FreeSync. For most modern TVs, this won’t be a problem, but there are countless displays and monitors, in particular, that can’t benefit from this version of VRR, including those that only have an HDMI 2.0 port. This isn’t the case on Xbox Series X|S, which both support FreeSync for VRR and therefore work on a wide range of compatible displays as a result. Check out this list of compatible displays that work with VRR for PS5.

The VRR range on PS5 is also capped to 48Hz - 120Hz, which isn’t as good as what’s available on the LG OLED CX, which has a superior VRR range of 20 - 120Hz. This means that if a PS5 game drops lower than 48fps when playing at 60Hz game, it may exhibit judder as it falls out of the VRR range. If Sony enabled FreeSync, however, this issue would be resolved as there would be a wider range, and would also make PS5’s VRR support compatible on far more displays. It seems like a no-brainer considering the PS5’s GPU is made by AMD and uses the open standard.
Has nothing to do with RDNA2 (and neither does USB-C).
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Freesync and Freesync Ultimate have been around a while before RDNA2. RDNA2 is not required for any kind of variable refresh rate.

Sony did half ass with not including Freesync on their cosnoles and only the HDMI forum VRR, but that doesn't involve RDNA 2 in any way.
100% agree its honestly a sad attempt by Sony not supporting Freesync unless its planned eventually in another year and a half
 

SatansReverence

Hipster Princess
GT7 looks fluid to everybody, it has nothing to do with me.

Can quite easily see every stutter and dip but do go on warrior.

It's a racing game, not a slow walk-a-thon or shooter. A frame that lasts twice as long sticks out like dogs balls.
I'm not on perm notice at all by the way, as much as I can tell. I was only banned twice, so less than tons of people here.
Yes, we all noticed when you ran and hid for a couple months after your last ban.
 

8BiTw0LF

Gold Member
HDMI 2.1 is now just an umbrella term for an HDMI chip that CAN have several features, but DOESN'T NEED to have those features.
I bought the monitor before the standards got mixed up, so if Eve lied about the HDMI 2.1 certification back then - legally speaking, they are screwed if they can't update the firmware with HDMI Forum VRR. My guess is they bought the cheapest available scaler on the market (from Suzhou Lehui) that's never been fully tested with HDMI 2.1 compliant applications.
 

8BiTw0LF

Gold Member
The point here is industry standards for VRR is what they mention and Sonys solution doesn’t meet industry standards as their VRR solution doesn’t support FPS under 48fps while the standard is 40fps.
So the new VESA Adaptive Sync is not "real VRR"? It's got the same threshold at 48hz as HDMI Forum VRR.

Rihanna Hear GIF by BET Awards


 
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MadPanda

Member

Game Mode Performance Target Display Mode End-To-End Input Lag
Fidelity Mode 30fps/33.3ms 60Hz 117.5ms
Fidelity Mode 40fps/25ms 120Hz 80.8ms
Performance RT Mode 60fps/16.7ms 60Hz 75ms
Performance RT Mode 60fps/16.7ms 120Hz 60.8ms
You just need a 120Hz screen for this, but with the VRR updates it unlocks the 40fps cap so it can go above it.

Yeah digital foundry has post on it.
Pretty much bumps the framerate to 80fps
Good stuff.
Just hope every developer uses the same stuff

I've just read that DF article. Yeah, that's amazing. Thanks for sharing it with me. I hope many other developers include it. Basically, now I want to play every game like that as I have an LG cx in my room. I'm "only" missing ps5 and xsx 😭
 

MonarchJT

Banned
lol this is not some custom half baked solution. They just designed it around hdmi 2.1 compliance standards.

You guys are hilarious.
games go under 48fps and this solution unlike the competition it doesn't help. So if isn't half backed is simply poorer. that's it
Let's hope they can do something about it
 
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You mean games on Series X goes under 48fps. Right now there's only one game that goes under 48fps on PS5 - Elden Ring.
GT7 can drop to 40 fps in very busy scenes. Bloodhunt just came out on PS5 and drops regularly below 48 on quality mode and sometimes even in performance mode. Stranger of Paradise regularly runs below 48 fps in all modes afaik. Lego Star Wars regularly drops below 48 fps. I bet there are many more examples, these are just very recent games. Looks like your "zinger" backfired.
 
You mean games on Series X goes under 48fps. Right now there's only one game that goes under 48fps on PS5 - Elden Ring.
Sustained frame rates under 48fps maybe but loads dip under 48fps.

Just look through some minimum frame rates in VGTech videos where the stats are linked.

Lego TSS 37 FPS
Bloodhunt 41 FPS in performance mode / 32 FPS in quality mode
Stranger of Paradise 38 FPS
GT7 44 FPS
Death Stranding 41 FPS in quality mode
Diablo 2 Resurrected 44 FPS
Deathloop 40 FPS in quality mode
Guardians of the Galaxy 39FPS
RE Village 42 FPS
Returnal 46 FPS
 

8BiTw0LF

Gold Member
I see a lot of 'quality modes' dipping under 48fps, but generally speaking 'framerate modes' tends to be higher on PS5 than on Series X.

If I were to look at 'quality modes' on Series X I'd bet more games dip below 40fps than 48fps on PS5.
 

Arioco

Member
100% agree its honestly a sad attempt by Sony not supporting Freesync unless its planned eventually in another year and a half


Unless they're planning on releasing Freesync for their TVs too... definitely not going to happen in another 10 years.

Sometimes Sony's policies are really hard to understand. They don't support 1440p (even though users have been asking for it since PS4 Pro) because it's "a PC standard". Still a lot of TVs support it nowadays. They don't support Freesync because it's "a PC thing", but again, more and more TVs support it. The fact is a lot of people game on their PC monitors, so SONY is basically pushing those people towards MS, that is more than willing to support all of those features, of course.
 

s-bojan

Member
Yeah this cup the opponents are always the same. So it shouldn't have any impact on that.
I just want you to test with same setup in a customised race to see if there is any change. Yeah I never done this race till today due to lower pay, I'm mostly doing the missions and other stuff with big money. So watching your results was quite shocking tbh, I'm mostly not sensitive to frame drops but that one on the first corner is very hard to miss.
OK, I've run a few more tests. Here are the results:

Reverse track, one less car on track, cars are less detailed. It is still having big frame drops in same spots, but no minor drops.

More cars on a track. Big frame drops are the same, no minor drops.
I've let the other cars pass me at the end of the 1st lap, but I was still having big frame drops during the 2nd lap. So those are obviously not car related.

Repeated the 1st test I've did, but with prioritize frame rate selected. No changes, it was still dropping frames.

So, what's the conclusion?
It seems that there are parts of this track that are problematic and having a more detailed car near you can drop fps below 60 in other parts as well.
To be honest, big frame drops were not bothering me that much, as they were only occurring in a specific parts of the track and they did not last long.
But small ones almost made me sick after driving the whole 5 lap race. Almost constant frame drops on v-synced content bother me a lot.

Would VRR help here? Well, not when the fps goes below 48 (unless PD implements LFC), but it would smooth the small drops in the 55-60 range (they would still be noticeable, but would not bother me that much).
Let's hope that PD will patch the game and fix the issues.
Just to mention one more time that this is the worst case scenario I've experienced so far (I've maybe finished 1/3 of the campaign). The fps is mostly stable.
 
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Bramble

Member
Can we all agree a game is a technical shitshow when it even goes below 48fps when 60fps is targeted? We shouldn't rely on VRR in that case, but call out the developer. Most people don't have VRR displays.
 
I see a lot of 'quality modes' dipping under 48fps, but generally speaking 'framerate modes' tends to be higher on PS5 than on Series X.

If I were to look at 'quality modes' on Series X I'd bet more games dip below 40fps than 48fps on PS5.
It appears you're a professional...








Goalpost mover extraordinaire.
 

01011001

Gold Member
I bought the monitor before the standards got mixed up, so if Eve lied about the HDMI 2.1 certification back then - legally speaking, they are screwed if they can't update the firmware with HDMI Forum VRR. My guess is they bought the cheapest available scaler on the market (from Suzhou Lehui) that's never been fully tested with HDMI 2.1 compliant applications.

well even before they unified it most of the features were simply a suggestion. that's I guess why they unified it in the first place, because in the end HDMI 2.1 didn't have any standout features that weren't already available for 2.0, all it really brought to the table was high bandwidths.

most HDMI 2.1 "certified" screens simply use the higher bandwidth in order to support 4K120hz and nothing else.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
Sometimes Sony's policies are really hard to understand.
Strategically there are questions about value of these policies - as you point out (actual market impact is likely trivial in either direction - but a lost user is a lost user).
But it's not really that hard to understand, they've been pretty consistent with working with TV standards first for multiple decades now. PS2 launched with HDTV video-out support, but not VGA P-Scan for instance (hw was capable of everything, but they explicitly didn't bother with 480P until nearly 2 years later). And the rest of 00s continued that trend across all their consoles.
 

8BiTw0LF

Gold Member
well even before they unified it most of the features were simply a suggestion. that's I guess why they unified it in the first place, because in the end HDMI 2.1 didn't have any standout features that weren't already available for 2.0, all it really brought to the table was high bandwidths.

most HDMI 2.1 "certified" screens simply use the higher bandwidth in order to support 4K120hz and nothing else.
One of the HDMI 2.1 features are VRR. All the HDMI 2.1 TV's/monitors that came out before "unified" HDMI (except Eve Spectrum 4K) supports HDMI VRR.
 

SLB1904

Gold Member
OK, I've run a few more tests. Here are the results:

Reverse track, one less car on track, cars are less detailed. It is still having big frame drops in same spots, but no minor drops.

More cars on a track. Big frame drops are the same, no minor drops.
I've let the other cars pass me at the end of the 1st lap, but I was still having big frame drops during the 2nd lap. So those are obviously not car related.

Repeated the 1st test I've did, but with prioritize frame rate selected. No changes, it was still dropping frames.

So, what's the conclusion?
It seems that there are parts of this track that are problematic and having a more detailed car near you can drop fps below 60 in other parts as well.
To be honest, big frame drops were not bothering me that much, as they were only occurring in a specific parts of the track and they did not last long.
But small ones almost made me sick after driving the whole 5 lap race. Almost constant frame drops on v-synced content bother me a lot.

Would VRR help here? Well, not when the fps goes below 48 (unless PD implements LFC), but it would smooth the small drops in the 55-60 range (they would still be noticeable, but would not bother me that much).
Let's hope that PD will patch the game and fix the issues.
Just to mention one more time that this is the worst case scenario I've experienced so far (I've maybe finished 1/3 of the campaign). The fps is mostly stable.
Thanks for this seems like to be a glitch, like the same I found in tsukuba, if this track gets pick for the competition which honestly I have little hope for it be one of those. They will definitely catch that for competition. If not well lets see if someone at polyphony sees it because they aren't really that communicative...
 

01011001

Gold Member
One of the HDMI 2.1 features are VRR. All the HDMI 2.1 TV's/monitors that came out before "unified" HDMI (except Eve Spectrum 4K) supports HDMI VRR.

I bet you can find some 2.1 TVs that don't support VRR, especially early 2.1 TVs.

it is weird tho that they haven't patched it in, as it shouldn't be hard to do for a screen that already supports other forms of VRR.
 

8BiTw0LF

Gold Member
I bet you can find some 2.1 TVs that don't support VRR, especially early 2.1 TVs.

it is weird tho that they haven't patched it in, as it shouldn't be hard to do for a screen that already supports other forms of VRR.
Yes, if it supports 48gbps it should be able to do VRR. Haven't come across a reddit post etc. that stated any HDMI 2.1 TV/monitor not supporting PS5 - except Eve Spectrum. It's really weird.
 

Shmunter

Gold Member
Ok, finally got of my ass and tested VRR on my 85” TCL C825. Amazing set by the way, destroys my previously returned Samsung Q95T.

Anyway, the gist:

Pros -
- Local dimming works perfectly
- No flicker or any odd contrast or black issues amazingly


Tried the Free to play Bloodhunt as the quality mode is not a locked 60

Pros
- Helps alleviate some stutter, but

Cons
- Game clearly falls below the 48fps threshold and still stutters making it pretty pointless at this performance level
- Horrible inverse ghosting with VRR enabled, the likes I haven’t seen since owning the Samsung which ghosted even when fixed hz.
- The inverse ghosting seems a problem with 60hz VRR, 120hz seems to eliminate the issue from what I can tell. Unusable at 60 for me due to the inverse ghosting.

Tried a few other titles, but everything is mostly locked as it is so trying to find anything that stands out is difficult, most things being 60hz ghosted like cray despite being locked at 60.

For my particular set, Sony would need to lock the console at 120.

Caution to all those that are buying TV’s for VRR - depending on how sensitive you are to iq issues, you just don’t know what you may experience. Probably the safest bet is OLED.
 
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No freesync? So they half assed the VRR implementation.
This has been the plan all along. From the very beginning, Sony were very careful to always say HDMI Forum VRR and they never ever said anything about FreeSync. I knew this would happen, that's why I've been trying to find an actual HDMI 2.1 monitor with actual HDMI 2.1 Forum VRR for a long time.
 

01011001

Gold Member
This has been the plan all along. From the very beginning, Sony were very careful to always say HDMI Forum VRR and they never ever said anything about FreeSync. I knew this would happen, that's why I've been trying to find an actual HDMI 2.1 monitor with actual HDMI 2.1 Forum VRR for a long time.

I'm for one am just happy that my old HDMI 2.0 Samsung had stealth support for HDMI VRR all along lol... although be it only for a single HDMI port
 

Gordon Freeman

Gold Member
VRR standard is 48 Hz for lower bound, it has nothing to do with Sony.

Freesync is 40 Hz lower bound. Not VRR

Even a Xbox fan like Adam just explained that to you... Why double down?

Thank you for clarifying that Sony’s solution is missing even more support like Freesync.

Thanks for helping double down on the truth that the PS5 solution is inferior and likely due to the decisions Sony made with their chipset.
 

MikeM

Member
Thank you for clarifying that Sony’s solution is missing even more support like Freesync.

Thanks for helping double down on the truth that the PS5 solution is inferior and likely due to the decisions Sony made with their chipset.
If Sony is using the hdmi 2.1 standard, then its probably to ensure general compatibility with current and future sets.

A small percentage of people have vrr sets. An even smaller percentage have Freesync capable sets. Investing and deploying the general VRR standard makes a lot of sense.

I say this as an owner of both consoles and a LG OLED.
 
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assurdum

Member
I must say: it's quite interesting to see many people complain about ps5 VRR because they didn't knew until now what "real" VRR really is it (me included).
 
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assurdum

Member
Thank you for clarifying that Sony’s solution is missing even more support like Freesync.

Thanks for helping double down on the truth that the PS5 solution is inferior and likely due to the decisions Sony made with their chipset.
It's not the "sony solution" lol. In any case VRR or freesync doesn't "fix" magically drops below 48 fps in any case, just to say.
 
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01011001

Gold Member
If Sony is using the hdmi 2.1 standard, then its probably to ensure general compatibility with current and future sets.

A small percentage of people have vrr sets. An even smaller percentage have Freesync capable sets. Investing and deploying the general VRR standard makes a lot of sense.

I say this as an owner of both consoles and a LG OLED.

more TVs than not that support VRR also support Freesync and most PC monitors are the same, it's actually only Sony TVs that don't... which is also why the PS5 doesn't...

Vizio, Samsung, LG, TCL, Philips, Xiaomi
here's an incomplete list of TVs that support Freesync (use the desktop site if you are on mobile as the mobile site sucks)
 
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