ryutaro's mama
Member
There has never been a greater John Connor put to film than the one at the start of T2.
Scarred face, battle hardened. So fucking awesome.
Scarred face, battle hardened. So fucking awesome.
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Terminator 3 (and possibly all subsequent Terminators) was doomed to suck. Why?
- Thread starter DeaconKnowledge
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Extra Sauce
Member
Yep. Cameron had great new ideas for T3 but the idiotic studio suits insisted on recycling the hunter/hunted in a modern setting premise. Cameron then bowed out and the franchise has not recovered to this day.
The logical place to go for T3 was to show the future war, how humanity won and sending Reese back being the conclusion of the story. Would have wrapped everything up nicely. How they messed the post Cameron movies up so badly I will never know. The movies were never about the time travel, but about the conflict that resulted in the desperate measure of time travel. Now they have turned into a bad Doctor Who episode if Genesys is anything to go by.
Neff
Member
Surprised it took 3 posts. Even T2 3-D is a better terminator movie than 3 or Salvation (and I'm super-confidently guessing Genisys).
During the mid '90s he said that Lightstorm was looking at several ways to go about T3, "none of which used the arm" left behind in T2, around the same time he was courting Marvel for Spider-Man. That gig went tits up in a huge implosion of red tape shortly after True Lies even though he'd signed off to do Spider-Man, and then he started getting interested in Titanic. So T3 was on the cards, he was simply more interested in other things. And considering how badly the franchise has been damaged since, it's unlikely he'll ever be interested in it again.
No Cameron is a pretty big reason, but you know the other big reason?
NO LINDA HAMILTON!
Also never mind the plot for a second, they STILL can't match T2's godlike sound FX team.
NO LINDA HAMILTON!
It's one thing to kill off a major character in these movies, but to give a badass like Sarah Connor an off screen death is a huge fucking insult.
Also never mind the plot for a second, they STILL can't match T2's godlike sound FX team.
HiredN00bs
Banned
Watching Terminator 2: Judgement Day as a kid was mind-blowing. My love for the movie has diminished over the years, mostly due to the ridiculous story, but the movie really does an awesome job executing its tense hunter/hunted thrill ride.
What were these great ideas, friend?
Lucky Forward
Member
Kyle Reese: The Terminator had already gone through. Connor sent me to intercept and they blew the whole place...Nobody goes home. Nobody else comes through. It's just him and me.
Yeah, right. Has anyone kept track of how many Terminators have been sent back in time thus far throughout the canon?
Yeah, right. Has anyone kept track of how many Terminators have been sent back in time thus far throughout the canon?
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
There was a scene in the original T2 script that was never used/filmed that showed John sending Kyle back. After that his soldiers go to blow the place up, John stops them, tells them they're not done yet, and walks over to a rack of Terminators as we fade to modern times...
So, the explanation there is that Kyle didn't know about the T1000, 'cause John didn't tell anyone until after Kyle was already gone. Not that that changes anything since it wasn't filmed, but it's pretty interesting none the less that Cameron did come up with an explanation.
Wow. No. Fuck that trash.
Lucky Forward
Member
I didn't know about that. Cameron probably figured that most people wouldn't remember that specific line of dialog anyway, so why bother explaining it.
But still, between the movies and the Sarah Connor Chronicles, the waiting room for the time displacement equipment must have been pretty crowded.
BotoxAgent
Member
Cameron set the bar too high
badcrumble
Member
The problem with the Terminator franchise is that time-travel based reboots are nearly always a bad idea, with Terminator you've got that problem but even worse.
Basically every single film has had a different philosophy in terms of how time travel does and doesn't work, anyway, and whether it's truly possible to change the past or change the future. The series is full of working time loops and broken time loops. You can't really keep iterating on that formula and make sense.
Basically every single film has had a different philosophy in terms of how time travel does and doesn't work, anyway, and whether it's truly possible to change the past or change the future. The series is full of working time loops and broken time loops. You can't really keep iterating on that formula and make sense.
CadetMahoney
Member
Studios and their obsession with PG-13/
Estocolmo
Member
Terminator began with the first movie and finished with the second movie. There is no more Terminator after the second one, everything else after T2 is invalid.
Why? Because James Cameron created the mythology and ended it perfectly with the second movie. Not all movies need to be 4-5 parts + tv-series and whatever, if the creator finishes with 2 movies then its only two movies that are valid.
Why? Because James Cameron created the mythology and ended it perfectly with the second movie. Not all movies need to be 4-5 parts + tv-series and whatever, if the creator finishes with 2 movies then its only two movies that are valid.
No.
Whether you like them or not, T3 and Salvation are official canon.
It's like saying Star Wars Episode VII is not valid because George Lucas will not be writing/directing. However owns the rights, makes the canon.
But don't worry, with the upcoming Genisys, T3 and Salvation will most probably be retconned out of the continuity. Alongside T1 and T2....
Estocolmo
Member
You cant really compare Terminator with Star Wars. The reason is time traveling and making sequels to time traveling movies is very sensitive, in this case the movies after the T2 is not made by the creator so naturally we get this cluster of confusing.
It's not really that confusing. Sure, their quality is debatable, but the stories themselves are quite easy to follow.
Drilbit777
Member
Terminator ended with the 2nd film, there really wasn't much else you could do with that without messing with the continuity.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
This is what Salvation was supposed to be, and instead it was just another treadmill sequel. Nothing of worth was accomplished in that film. Skynet's plan doesn't even make sense.
iirc, i read they were planning sequels to Salvation before it even came out and that's why it was written like that.
greedy producers killed that movie from the get go.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
Terminator, like Alien, is a franchise that should have ended after the second movie wrapped.
Yeah, a real Terminator war film with Connor/grown-up Kyle Reese is what is needed. Cameron may just sit on the rights when he gets them back though, and perhaps for the best.
Killing_Joke
Member
There's no universe in existence where this is ever correct.
There was no need for the story to continue past T2.
"The unknown future rolls toward us. I face it, for the first time, with a sense of hope. Because if a machine, a Terminator, can learn the value of human life, maybe we can too."
If that's not an ending to a story, I don't know what is. We saw everything we needed to see. What happened in that future was not necessary to see, because it was averted.
"The unknown future rolls toward us. I face it, for the first time, with a sense of hope. Because if a machine, a Terminator, can learn the value of human life, maybe we can too."
If that's not an ending to a story, I don't know what is. We saw everything we needed to see. What happened in that future was not necessary to see, because it was averted.
There will be day you will wish to go back in time and terminate this post
ginger ninja
Banned
man fuck the haters, T3 was good. Easily 8/10
Main reason is Lucas passed the torch to Kennedy and the story team at Lucasfilm
Cameron made his movies but never endorsed the sequels as official. They are still nothing more than fan fiction run by producers desperate for a brand name to sell a movie.
i don't think many people would deny they really wanted sequels to both at the point in time before all the crap sequels existed.
i certainly wanted more of both series after those movies.
so, in theory, he could pull the same stunt the other guys are doing with the new Alien movie that retcons Alien 3 and Resurrection if he really felt like doing it?
If he felt like it, sure.
I still can't wrap my mind around the time travel mechanics working differently in every single movie. How did it go from predestination (T1, with Kyle Reese always being John Connor's father in the original timeline) to changing stuff up (T3, with Judgment Day being delayed several years)? In the former, the current timeline is a result of every time travel, interaction and change that's ever to happen along the course of history (or else John couldn't have been alive to send Kyle back in that original future), while the latter implies that things do change and happen differently after someone alters things in the past, but not "before" that.
This never made sense to me, it feels inconsistent.
This never made sense to me, it feels inconsistent.
Sure. He technically gets the rights back in 2018
Producers are just bleeding a stone dry until then while they still can.
Brown_Corolla
Member
Just watched the extended version of T2 last week with my kids.
What happened to T-101's arm when it got ripped off in the factory?
What happened to T-101's arm when it got ripped off in the factory?
He automatically gets the rights back in 2019.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Terminator established a premise (the future is coming, no avoiding it).
T2 subverted that premise brilliantly (no fate, the future is unwritten).
There was really nothing more to say at that point.
T2 subverted that premise brilliantly (no fate, the future is unwritten).
There was really nothing more to say at that point.
http://www.hopeofthefuture.net/deletedscenes/t2omit04.html
This is an omitted scene from the original T2 drafts that featured a prolonged future war sequence where Connor storms the time displacement facility.
This should have been the climax of a T3 done by Cameron.
This is an omitted scene from the original T2 drafts that featured a prolonged future war sequence where Connor storms the time displacement facility.
This should have been the climax of a T3 done by Cameron.
Exactly. I never thought of it, but the destruction of the robots at the end of T2 and thus prevention of Skynet's creation shouldn't have been possible in an universe where Kyle Reese was always John Connor's father from the beginning. Of course, Skynet still existed in T3, but then how did Judgment Day get delayed? It's all a big contradiction in time travel mechanics, and makes my head hurt just thinking about it.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
T3 has a nice ending. I'm not offended by its existence, but it still is a helluva step down from T2.
Liamario
Banned
No involvement from Cameron. Those who've made movies with the IP, don't know what they have in their hands. It's a sci fi horror, and while no. 2 when a bit more actiony, there was still horror to be seen.
You can't have a PG13 terminator movie. It goes against the very fibre of terminator. Die Hard went down the same street and suffered the same issues. Way too many studio fingers in the pie and they destroy the IP.
You can't have a PG13 terminator movie. It goes against the very fibre of terminator. Die Hard went down the same street and suffered the same issues. Way too many studio fingers in the pie and they destroy the IP.
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